LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Tamesis Greer]

This is a bit longish, but hoping someone can help. Short version: Genderqueer and need help figuring out how to modify my presentation

 

A while after realizing I was asexual, I found out about gender non-binaries and realized that I am genderqueer. I'm biologically female, but I realized that I'm more comfortable identifying as gender neutral. Even as a kid I dreamed about being more masculine, and I've never really been happy with the way I look. I don't want to go all the way, but I do want to present as more masculine and would be happier without breasts. Unfortunately, I am short (5'2") and have a small frame, so I will never quite get the look I want. I'm working on building muscles so I can try to bulk things up a bit.

 

My presentation has been evolving, but I want to really start playing with my clothing to see if I can come up with something that is less feminine/more masculine. The most comfortable I have been is wearing my workout clothes. After that I'll decide if I want to change my hair (experimented once with an ultra short cut, currently just below chin in a reverse bob, which is a feminine cut but I like it better than any other long hairstyle that I've found so far).

 

I need some advice on how to pull it off in terms of clothing choices and techniques, especially for work/professional clothing. I'm jealous of butch women and FTM who manage to pull this off and look awesome. The ones who do it best seem to be lean, but are muscular and have bigger bones than I do.

 

Questions:

 

1. Minimizing breasts: I already have a small chest and I'd like to minimize it. The kinds of bras that seem to work best for work clothing unfortunately are designed to enhance the bust in the sizes I need. I have found that camisole tanks can minimize the bust but I'm not quite finding the type I want. They only work well under cotton button down shirts (not knits or t-shirts) and they don't quite hide the nipples (the ones I currently have are nylon or something similar). Can anyone suggest either a good minimizing bra with no wire (size: 32-36AA or A), or a camisole brand that is preferably mostly cotton, has a shelf bra, and is actually thick enough to hide nipples? Or another suggestion on how to do this?

 

2. Shirts: Where are the best places to find shirts that do not enhance curves? Because of my small bust, shirts with darts have never quite looked right anyway. Would boy's or men's shirts work with the chest? Since i have a petite frame (another grrr) would I be able to find shirts that aren't too long in the sleeves? How do you figure out which size? (I do tend to roll up sleeves on button down shirts, so length is not a dea lbreaker as long as they aren't too wide in the shoulders in order to fit the torso).

 

3. Shoes: I've been having trouble with shoes because I prefer something not too feminine and I wear Merrell barefoot shoes on my off time, so I want black work shoes that have little to no heel. I do have a pair of boots that have a 2 inch chunky heel and are comfortable and don't look too feminine. But I'd like to find something more along the lines of a men's oxford shoe. Any suggestions of either shoes of this type in women's sizes or would I be able to try boy's/men's oxford type shoes? I'm somewhere between a 6-7 in women's sizes and have narrow feet. I generally  have to be able to try on shoes to make sure they fit, until I know what brand/style to buy, and I don't live in a major city (so all those cool things in SF & NYC are out).

 

4. Jackets: What about jackets or blazers for work? The ones I've tried that are cut for women never worked for me, even without the presentation issue. They were hard to get on and off (I suspect partly because I have rounded/slightly wider than usual shoulders) and when I did so, they deranged my shirts so I had to do mega adjustments to get everything to sit properly again. It wasn't worth it. But jackets seem to be an excellent way of hiding the chest and looking more masculine (this came up in my facebook feed this morning and I like the photo of the author. The jacket totally makes the outfit). Suggestions?

 

4. Other things? Is there anything else I can do that I may not be thinking of to present as more masculine? Different ways of wearing my clothing, etc.? I'm drawing a blank.

 

Thanks!

 

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

Tamesis, your story is very similar to mine. I can attempt to help!

 

1. I find that the Denver Hayes brand of sport bras (they usually sell them at Mark's Work Warehouse, but I don't know if you have those in the US) are good at flattening boobs. They have a few different cuts, but the one I'm referring to has to be pulled over your head and fastened on the back (there's a 3-hook clasp.) If you're looking for binders, I can't be of much help there, except for this: the T-kingdom sport bra ones did not work for me

 

2, 3, 4. For shoes, have you tried shopping in the boys' sections? Most of the options will probably elicit a resounding "meh" but every now and then some will look good (I mean, boys have to dress fancy SOME times too, right?) Shirts will probably be hit or miss no matter where you go, unfortunately, unless you can get them custom made. I must say I've gotten a few decent shirts from the boys' section at Wal Mart, sadly lol (I'm 5'6"). One of them even has Blanka from Street Fighter 4 on it!

 

I don't have much experience with blazers/jackets yet because I'm a grad student and too goddamn poor, but the fashion advice this guy gives (mainly in the second half) seems pretty legit.

 

Best of luck!

[Flex Luthor]

I'm no fashion expert but boobs are mainly fat so lowering your body fat will minimize boobage(?). Although it saddens me a little inside to type that do what makes you happy

[Leenastien]

*Waves* Got yourself a lesbian right here! I just happened to stumble upon this thread...very cool idea! I'll be keeping an eye and commenting when I can for sure! Nerd Fitness and coming out came hand in hand together for me about a year and a half ago! And I'd love to help out any of the LGTB community and everyone else, the way nerd fitness helped me!  

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

I'm no fashion expert but boobs are mainly fat so lowering your body fat will minimize boobage(?). Although it saddens me a little inside to type that do what makes you happy

 

^ Totally! I gave up bread, pasta and beer this summer and lost around 10 lbs...and went from a B cup to an A cup. I was all like \o/ ...until I realized I had to buy a pile of new bras and that 36A's aren't too common. Like, WTF's going to happen when I get big enough lats to do pull-ups? I'm pretty sure 38A doesn't exist anywhere in the town in which I live.

 

This is in most cases, anyway. Some girls are blessed/cursed with huge boobs that won't go away no matter what :\

 

Also, Welcome Eleena!

[KeoniD96720]

Ugh. "You haven't been with the right man." I spent my twenties listening to that over and over and over...

Just look right back at the guy saying that, look him up and down and say "neither have you, apparently."

[Bekah]

^ Totally! I gave up bread, pasta and beer this summer and lost around 10 lbs...and went from a B cup to an A cup. I was all like \o/ ...until I realized I had to buy a pile of new bras and that 36A's aren't too common. Like, WTF's going to happen when I get big enough lats to do pull-ups? I'm pretty sure 38A doesn't exist anywhere in the town in which I live.

This is in most cases, anyway. Some girls are blessed/cursed with huge boobs that won't go away no matter what :\

Also, Welcome Eleena!

I dont want tiny boobs! again! When I was thin, I was a 36-38A, and HATED trying to find bras, but luckily Victorias Secret carries them and back then I could afford it, now I'd just skip a bra alltogether if I could! Lol that sounds ironic, saying I dont want little boobs, yet despising wearing a bra! lol!

Hi y'all I have no idea why I never stopped by before, I suppose I have just been blessed because all of NF has been a safe space for me I'm glad to be here now though!

[Bekah]

I think my family is starting to think that because I've never really had a girlfriend I must be gay. Of course the reality is I'm just shy and suck at talking to girls in an I'm interested in you kind of way. It's getting annoying but again I'm glad my family is supportive, even if completely misguided.

A relationship that starts online will be my only hope at finding a girlfriend too, IRL she'd have to get naked and put my face in her boobs before I'd have a clue she was interested! I met my husband like that too, I'm entirely socially inept...not that you would know that by my posts around here! lol

[Bekah]

Tamesis: I second Nax's advice about the sports bras and the boy's section of the store. I wear them because I am lazy and they are comfortable, but my C cup shrinks dramatically vs wearing a typical underwire bra, also there are thin pads you can wear under any bra or shirt that will cover your nipples so they don't show. As for shirts and shoes and jackets/blazers...all can be found in boys sections of higher end stores like Macy's and Nordstrom, or if you are concerned about shopping in the stores yourself now, and can afford to spend the money upfront, there are lots of online options that you can try on at home and keep what you like and send back the rest, or just say you are shopping for a brother/nephew/cousin that is about your size and ask what would fit "him" best.

As far as sizing goes: Your size in shoes would fall close to a boy's 5. In clothes you would be probably a 12/14 slim, maybe a regular, depending on the fit. Depending on your waist size, you could also buy pants that way in the teens/young mens areas that are labeled by your waist size and inseam length (with your height, you need most likely a 29 inch inseam or even a 28 maybe, so you might struggle finding pants the right length because 29 inseam is generally the shortest they are made) so they would be labeled like 29W29L (the W is the waist and the L is the inseam length). Dress shirts in boys would be the 12/14 sizing type, but for young men they are measured by sleeve length and neck circumference. I would definitely start with the boys sizes with both pants and shirts, since you aren't very tall and that isnt likely to change, they also usually offer slim options for boys that are small framed too. Then as you develop a sense of what you like and how it fits, you might be able to find options in specific stores in young mens sizes.

As for why I know all of this...when I was thin I was close to your size, and we wear a similar shoe size and I'm 5'3", I also have a teenage son and a husband, and somebody has to dress them or they would go around looking like complete slobs! lol!

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need anymore help!

[Nedwin]

Straight-ish ally, grew up a tomboy, usually a dude in my dreams (What does it all mean?!) but have since started to become friends with my femininity. Strict religious upbringing/traumatic experiences have left me borderline asexual, which really puts a damper on my relationships. My husband and I are working on it, and we're going to be ok!

[Tamesis Greer]

Tamesis, your story is very similar to mine. I can attempt to help!

 

1. I find that the Denver Hayes brand of sport bras (they usually sell them at Mark's Work Warehouse, but I don't know if you have those in the US) are good at flattening boobs. They have a few different cuts, but the one I'm referring to has to be pulled over your head and fastened on the back (there's a 3-hook clasp.) If you're looking for binders, I can't be of much help there, except for this: the T-kingdom sport bra ones did not work for me

 

2, 3, 4. For shoes, have you tried shopping in the boys' sections? Most of the options will probably elicit a resounding "meh" but every now and then some will look good (I mean, boys have to dress fancy SOME times too, right?) Shirts will probably be hit or miss no matter where you go, unfortunately, unless you can get them custom made. I must say I've gotten a few decent shirts from the boys' section at Wal Mart, sadly lol (I'm 5'6"). One of them even has Blanka from Street Fighter 4 on it!

 

I don't have much experience with blazers/jackets yet because I'm a grad student and too goddamn poor, but the fashion advice this guy gives (mainly in the second half) seems pretty legit.

 

Best of luck!

That link was incredibly helpful. Thanks!

[Tamesis Greer]

Tamesis: I second Nax's advice about the sports bras and the boy's section of the store. I wear them because I am lazy and they are comfortable, but my C cup shrinks dramatically vs wearing a typical underwire bra, also there are thin pads you can wear under any bra or shirt that will cover your nipples so they don't show. As for shirts and shoes and jackets/blazers...all can be found in boys sections of higher end stores like Macy's and Nordstrom, or if you are concerned about shopping in the stores yourself now, and can afford to spend the money upfront, there are lots of online options that you can try on at home and keep what you like and send back the rest, or just say you are shopping for a brother/nephew/cousin that is about your size and ask what would fit "him" best.

As far as sizing goes: Your size in shoes would fall close to a boy's 5. In clothes you would be probably a 12/14 slim, maybe a regular, depending on the fit. Depending on your waist size, you could also buy pants that way in the teens/young mens areas that are labeled by your waist size and inseam length (with your height, you need most likely a 29 inch inseam or even a 28 maybe, so you might struggle finding pants the right length because 29 inseam is generally the shortest they are made) so they would be labeled like 29W29L (the W is the waist and the L is the inseam length). Dress shirts in boys would be the 12/14 sizing type, but for young men they are measured by sleeve length and neck circumference. I would definitely start with the boys sizes with both pants and shirts, since you aren't very tall and that isnt likely to change, they also usually offer slim options for boys that are small framed too. Then as you develop a sense of what you like and how it fits, you might be able to find options in specific stores in young mens sizes.

As for why I know all of this...when I was thin I was close to your size, and we wear a similar shoe size and I'm 5'3", I also have a teenage son and a husband, and somebody has to dress them or they would go around looking like complete slobs! lol!

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need anymore help!

Thanks, Bekah. I guess I'll just have to take the plunge and brave the boys section. I may wait a little on the clothes (especially pants) until I've had the chance to work out some more and shave as much fat off/build more muscle so I don't have to keep buying new ones. New clothes will be my reward :-)

[Tamesis Greer]

^ Totally! I gave up bread, pasta and beer this summer and lost around 10 lbs...and went from a B cup to an A cup. I was all like \o/ ...until I realized I had to buy a pile of new bras and that 36A's aren't too common. Like, WTF's going to happen when I get big enough lats to do pull-ups? I'm pretty sure 38A doesn't exist anywhere in the town in which I live.

 

This is in most cases, anyway. Some girls are blessed/cursed with huge boobs that won't go away no matter what :\

 

Also, Welcome Eleena!

Yep, I'm planning to buckle down on the paleo diet and really control the carbs so I can lean out. It works if I actually do it. If only it wasn't so hard (cake! Nom nom nom)

[the_osprey]

Hey Tamesis!  I totally understand your struggle... I began to identify as genderqueer about 8 years ago.  It really is a struggle to find things that fit you in the way you'd like!  I have a few suggestions, and hopefully I can help a bit.

 

1) Minimize breasts: Have you tried a chest binder?  There are actually devices made to help hide your breasts!  And they work pretty well.  Especially with your size, you should find them very helpful.  My favorite binder shop is here, and I've also heard good things about here.

 

2) Shirts: I'd wear men's shirts.  Try H&M if you have one nearby.  They make very small men's sizes and their clothing has fit me well across the board.  I'm wearing one of their dress shirts right now!

 

3) Shoes: Shoes are a difficult one, since everyone is so different in their shoe preferences.  I've had great success with men's Clarks, and some of their shoes come in pretty small sizes (although I'm not sure if they'd fit you).  In women's shoes that are more masculine, Born usually has quite a few oxford/brogue styles that are rather unisex looking.

 

4) Jackets/Blazers: Unfortunately, the only answer is tailoring.  Men have to do it, too, though, so we're not alone.  I almost exclusively buy men's jackets and have the arm length altered. If you're in a man's jacket, your bust will be well hidden, but a proper fit should ensure you look good.  Make sure when you're buying a suit or blazer that the buttons on the sleeve are purely decorative, not functional.  This will allow the sleeves to be hemmed. If you have to look at women's clothing, I've had a lot of success at Banana Republic, as their tailoring is often not made to emphasize hip shape. 

 

 

My biggest help has been to immerse myself in men's fashion communities, just as a lurker.  They don't know I'm there, but I've learned a heck of a lot about fit and style.  I'd suggest Reddit's Male Fashion Advice, they know an awful lot about how to look good in menswear. 

 

Good luck!

[Tamesis Greer]

Hey Tamesis!  I totally understand your struggle... I began to identify as genderqueer about 8 years ago.  It really is a struggle to find things that fit you in the way you'd like!  I have a few suggestions, and hopefully I can help a bit.

 

1) Minimize breasts: Have you tried a chest binder?  There are actually devices made to help hide your breasts!  And they work pretty well.  Especially with your size, you should find them very helpful.  My favorite binder shop is here, and I've also heard good things about here.

 

2) Shirts: I'd wear men's shirts.  Try H&M if you have one nearby.  They make very small men's sizes and their clothing has fit me well across the board.  I'm wearing one of their dress shirts right now!

 

3) Shoes: Shoes are a difficult one, since everyone is so different in their shoe preferences.  I've had great success with men's Clarks, and some of their shoes come in pretty small sizes (although I'm not sure if they'd fit you).  In women's shoes that are more masculine, Born usually has quite a few oxford/brogue styles that are rather unisex looking.

 

4) Jackets/Blazers: Unfortunately, the only answer is tailoring.  Men have to do it, too, though, so we're not alone.  I almost exclusively buy men's jackets and have the arm length altered. If you're in a man's jacket, your bust will be well hidden, but a proper fit should ensure you look good.  Make sure when you're buying a suit or blazer that the buttons on the sleeve are purely decorative, not functional.  This will allow the sleeves to be hemmed. If you have to look at women's clothing, I've had a lot of success at Banana Republic, as their tailoring is often not made to emphasize hip shape. 

 

 

My biggest help has been to immerse myself in men's fashion communities, just as a lurker.  They don't know I'm there, but I've learned a heck of a lot about fit and style.  I'd suggest Reddit's Male Fashion Advice, they know an awful lot about how to look good in menswear. 

 

Good luck!

 

Thank you!

[Haku]

I uh.. I... Wauw, it's awesome to find this here in the pub. I didn't even think that there was an LGBTQA thread here, so I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact that there is. Wauw. (Sorry, I'm speechless for a bit xD)

 

It's still a bit strange to me to admit certain things, that I don't consider myself female or male. I'm just me, really. n_n So far the best fitting word I've found would be genderqueer, since it's kind of an umbrella-term, or so they say. Wauw. Sorry. Still speechless. I seriously have no idea what to say, apart from that I really like it that there's this thread here, even though I'm not really saying any useful stuff. Haha! 

 

K, yeah, I'll just stick to this, because I'm afraid I won't be able to say any useful stuff here anyway. But I support it. I think it's awesome! *highfive to anyone who wants a highfive*

 

 

 

EDIT:

^ Totally! I gave up bread, pasta and beer this summer and lost around 10 lbs...and went from a B cup to an A cup. I was all like \o/ ...until I realized I had to buy a pile of new bras and that 36A's aren't too common. Like, WTF's going to happen when I get big enough lats to do pull-ups? I'm pretty sure 38A doesn't exist anywhere in the town in which I live.

This is in most cases, anyway. Some girls are blessed/cursed with huge boobs that won't go away no matter what :\

And all of a sudden I see your icon on this page as well. xD Hi. n_n And yeah, I know about the blessed/cursed with big boobs situation. Count me in. >.>

[Teirin]

I uh.. I... Wauw, it's awesome to find this here in the pub. I didn't even think that there was an LGBTQA thread here, so I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact that there is. Wauw. (Sorry, I'm speechless for a bit xD)

 

It's still a bit strange to me to admit certain things, that I don't consider myself female or male. I'm just me, really. n_n So far the best fitting word I've found would be genderqueer, since it's kind of an umbrella-term, or so they say. Wauw. Sorry. Still speechless. I seriously have no idea what to say, apart from that I really like it that there's this thread here, even though I'm not really saying any useful stuff. Haha! 

 

K, yeah, I'll just stick to this, because I'm afraid I won't be able to say any useful stuff here anyway. But I support it. I think it's awesome! *highfive to anyone who wants a highfive*

 

Finding this thread hit me the same way :-)  Welcome.

[Haku]

Finding this thread hit me the same way :-)  Welcome.

Thanks. And glad to hear I'm not the only one who reacts this way. xD Haha!

[Pyrorazor]

I'm SUPER happy that this thread exists. Like no joke, especially coming from a fitness website, regardless if it was nerdy or not, because sometimes it happens. But this makes me feel better.

 

Like Haku, I don't like to admit things because of safety reasons and that I don't many people who are queer too. I guess I'm more of a tomboy cause i like wearing dress shirts and ties, but it's literally just because it's stylish and comfortable.

 

Probably gonna stroll through this thread and see if I can pick up anything. I'm always in need of advice xD

[SevenofSeven]

Pretty happy to have found this thread also.

Straight Ally with one lesbian relationship to speak of. Long story!

Have family and friends in the gay community and love them all dearly.

I am taking my little brother to the Australian Sydney Mardi Gras at the end of February and I am excited for it. We are going to have a killer weekend! Which was one factor in my big health overhaul.

I'm hoping to get him to think more about his health, so I'm hoping he will get into NF, but of course you can't make people do anything right!

Anyway very cool to have this thread.

[Basement Cat]

I'm SUPER happy that this thread exists. Like no joke, especially coming from a fitness website, regardless if it was nerdy or not, because sometimes it happens. But this makes me feel better.

 

Like Haku, I don't like to admit things because of safety reasons and that I don't many people who are queer too. I guess I'm more of a tomboy cause i like wearing dress shirts and ties, but it's literally just because it's stylish and comfortable.

 

Probably gonna stroll through this thread and see if I can pick up anything. I'm always in need of advice xD

or anyone? *giggity*

 

Seriously, the dress up look is awesome! I met a couple of gay guys along the way, but never a gay lady. Or the gay ladies were flying incognito and I just didn't know. It's really nice to meet people, even if it's just on a forum, who share so much with me. I'm only out to some of my family, my parents still don't know. I think my mom suspects but is not ready to accept it.

 

A few months ago she had an epic freakout because I shaved my hair very, very short. She went on a rant about how no man would ever want me and all that jazz. I was uncomfortable to say the least. Then they came to visit in November and we played the Game of Life (the board game). My dad decided to be silly and picked a husband when he hit the "get married" square. We kept playing and he lost his job twice over the game, which prompted this comment from my mother: "That's what you ge for being a degenerate". o_0;

 

I think if I ever meet the lady love of my life, I will NOT introduce her to my folks if that's the kind of treatment we can expect. My parents are the " I don't mind gay people as long as I don't have any in my life" type. *sigh* They are awesome in every other way, but that is a big wall they have there.

[Flex Luthor]

That's what I love most about this thread, and forum in general. We accept all kinds and love you as you are.

[Haku]

or anyone? *giggity*

LOOOL x'D A dirty mind is a joy forever, they say. 

 

Also, sounds like your parents are quite "meh" about gay people then. That's a pity. So... Do you think you'll ever tell your parents about your preference? Or will you just let it be?

[iatetheyeti]

I've been lurking around this thread for a long time now, so I figured I'd actually come out of lurk-mode for long enough to say hey  

[Tkal]

I think if I ever meet the lady love of my life, I will NOT introduce her to my folks if that's the kind of treatment we can expect. My parents are the " I don't mind gay people as long as I don't have any in my life" type. *sigh* They are awesome in every other way, but that is a big wall they have there.

I had the same thought for many years. In the end I wanted my partner and my parents at my graduation. The event was public enough for them to ignore each other, and I had instructed friends to redirect my parents attention if needed.

In time my parents saw my happiness and the fact that I was, in the end, a better person now. I cannot say that is all milk and honey, but there is mutual respect and at this point my partner is as welcomed as me at my parents home.

So, never say never. I am not suggesting to dream of a perfect future and expect for it to appear without doing anything, but if we work on it we can improve something. And sometime it really gets better. Maybe we were just stubborn and patient enough not to give up, and it took us 30 years to fix things. Time to time we read here stories like Staci's or Joe's, people that put together their life and changed it. I see no difference with what I did. Maybe it is more difficult to quantify, but it can improve, it can change. Small steps, that's it.