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Whole grain madness.


Rebel

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Hi everyone, I'm sure this a topic that has been discussed time and time again especially from the Paleo contingent.

I've been scratching my head after reading loads of articles about the benefits / non benefits of whole grain.

One article tries to convince me that I need 5 portions of whole grain products per day to lower cholesterol and maintain a healthy heart. Others say quite the opposite and suggest that it's why a lot of people are very over weight.

Both points of view can not be right can they?

Has anyone got any good resources to help me?

Thanks in advance.

Rebel

A diet is not a few weeks but for a lifetime.

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Whole grain is better than processed grain for sure. Depending on how your body works, grain will make you gain weight or not. Both can be right, because they'll be right for different people.

Hell, some people will also do fine on different diets. Just give them a try and see what works for you both in matter of goals achieved, but also which you like most or which is most practical.

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Different ways of thinking, and it really does depend.

Some of the grain-free thinking is that seeds don't want mammals to eat them, and our digestive systems are slow enough to absorb the defense mechanism. (Phytates, anti-nutrients, whatever.) And you don't want someone who has any grain sensitivity to be eating five servings of it. Plus, it's empty calories when you can get most of your vitamins from non-grain vegetables and meat.

Then there is strong evidence that whole grains beat out processed grains. Whole grains have fiber and vitamins, processed grains are mostly starch. Whole grains digest slowly and don't mess with the blood sugar like white grains do. If you're eating whole grains, you're eating less processed food.

Cholesterol is a funny thing. It's so important to a functioning body that we're able to make our own if we don't eat enough of it. I don't know if taking in too much dietary cholesterol contributes to problems, or if there is a natural flushing mechanism. Taking drugs to lower the cholesterol levels in the blood certainly does cause some damage, so that's something to be avoided.

I really wish there were some more studies about vitamin C deficiency and its relationship to plaque in the arteries.

I have conditions that affect my social awareness.  If I am rude, tell me what I could do better.

5'8" & 220 260 pounds | Miles Walked: X

2019: | 1 | 2 | 3 |

Pre 2017: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | * | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |

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This is a great article related to grains: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-grains/#axzz27CCordir

The ones that are for grains are championed by CW (conventional wisdom) and the USDA food pyramid. All I can say on it, is that I have not eaten grains for my last 6 week challenge and was able to lose 17.5 lbs and 7% bf. I have more energy, my acide reflux is mostly gone, and I seem to have much less aches and pains as well a trouble sleeping.

@Kelekona (Kona is my dog's name. Yea that white one licking my ear - I spent 3 years in Hawaii and got him there) here is one on cholesterol http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cholesterol/#axzz27CCordir

I have been (or was) taking a statin since Augustish of 08. I dropped 20lbs and had my numbers retested. They went up. I was exercising 35-60 minutes 3 times a week, I was watching and tracking what I ate and for whatever reason they still went up. Since mid August I have stopped taking them and I plan on saying Paleo/Primal and having my numbers retested in December. If going paleo does in less than 6 months what statins couldn't in 4 years, I will be forever sold (not that I am not pretty much sold on Paleo/Primal for life anyway. After my last 6 week challenge, I had a chicken sandwich and fries, soda and kitkat. Like 1500 calories worth. I was hungry w/i 90 minutes and felt like crap. Don't plan on doing that again any time soon.

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Different strokes for different folks. As suggested try some eating plans and see what works for your unique body chemistry, lifestyle, climate you live in, and nutritional needs

I lose weight easily and feel just great on rice, oats, and buck wheat ( other types of wheat are less my friend, but sparingly no problem there either). I gained weight and felt pretty nasty on Paleo and being a vegan. Too many fats whether that comes from nuts, seeds, coconut milk or grass fed meat gives me hives and causes breakouts. There's just something my liver does not like about processing a certain amount of fat regardless of source. So there you go, there are no right answers across the board for all people with perhaps the exception of eating less chemically processed crap and eat correct portions. If you listen to your body, you'll find the right balance unique to you. I think portions are really important whatever eating plan you choose. Also, if you have medical conditions or other sensitives honor those. Grains are certainly contraindicated for some people with digestive disorders or people on low residue diets, so having a check up might be a good start also.

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Thanks everyone, I have now come to the conclusion (after reading the article Lefeux gave, thank you for that) that grains have little place in my life.

I have already started the paleo diet and have been going 3 days now, hunger / cravings is definitely down and I'm losing weight so I'll see how it goes.

Thanks for all your help guys and gals, really starting to love this forum...:congratulatory:

A diet is not a few weeks but for a lifetime.

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This is the token post by a conventional wisdom follower that had and continues to have plenty of success following conventional wisdom; conventional wisdom seems overly underrepresented in this thread.

Actually, I'm beginning to come around to the "I need to have grains" camp. Dinner has been sitting in the oven for two hours, and pulling it out to eat it seems like more effort than it's worth. I don't think I'm beyond tolerances for losing weight, but this non-desire to eat cannot be sustainably healthy.

I have conditions that affect my social awareness.  If I am rude, tell me what I could do better.

5'8" & 220 260 pounds | Miles Walked: X

2019: | 1 | 2 | 3 |

Pre 2017: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | * | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |

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Hi everyone, I'm sure this a topic that has been discussed time and time again especially from the Paleo contingent.

I've been scratching my head after reading loads of articles about the benefits / non benefits of whole grain.

One article tries to convince me that I need 5 portions of whole grain products per day to lower cholesterol and maintain a healthy heart. Others say quite the opposite and suggest that it's why a lot of people are very over weight.

Both points of view can not be right can they?

Has anyone got any good resources to help me?

Thanks in advance.

Rebel

As others have mentioned, many of the studies touting the benefits of whole grains are comparing whole grains to refined carbohydrate sources, as compared to whole grains versus potatoes/sweet potatoes/other vegetable carb sources.

That said, there's little empirical evidence that there's anything special about the whole grains themselves that is health-promoting. There *IS* empirical evidence that a certain amount of fiber(which whole grains generally have a decent amount of, but refined grains tend to lack) is beneficial through a couple of different mechanisms, including its fermentation to butyrate in the gut by our intestinal flora. But it's not clear that whole grains provide anything unique that couldn't be obtained from other plant-based sources.

That said, for a budget-conscious shopper looking for a carbohydrate source, grains are generally among the least expensive items in the store in terms of dollars per calorie, so there's that. If you don't have any allergy/digestive issues tied to them, they're a reasonable choice - though I wouldn't advocate making them the bulk of one's diet a la the old food pyramid. I personally find I function better if I'm not eating tons of bread/pasta, but the occasional slice of birthday cake doesn't hurt me.

"Restlessness is discontent - and discontent is the first necessity of progress. Show me a thoroughly satisfied man-and I will show you a failure." -Thomas Edison

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Thanks for all the replies, as usual all very helpful so thanks very much.

I have been on the paleo (militantly) for about a week now and I'm recording all the intake and weight measurements.

I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks again.

A diet is not a few weeks but for a lifetime.

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A mesolithic diet, between paleolithic and neolithic man, is an interesting concept.

I think I could do that. Actually, since I seem to have a rough time completely grain-free, I was thinking about weaning to paleo until my system started shutting down, then eating everything for several days, then weaning back down to non-eating again.

I have conditions that affect my social awareness.  If I am rude, tell me what I could do better.

5'8" & 220 260 pounds | Miles Walked: X

2019: | 1 | 2 | 3 |

Pre 2017: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | * | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |

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I have gone mostly paleo, but I find that too much meat in one meal has unpleseant effects. So I measure that very carefully, and get some protein from eggs dairy and nuts. I cut out bread, but have kept in brown rice, wild rice, quinoa and some other grains. It might be good to adjust slowly and see how you feel as you go. For example, try cutting out bread/muffins/cookies. Feel better or worse? If you do one thing at a time, you'll know how your body is adjusting and it won't be such a shock.

As to cholesterol, the only thing that impacted my husband's number was increasing the amount of fruits/veg he ate. All the things the doctor told him to do, and the statins, did nothing.

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I lose weight easily and feel just great on rice, oats, and buck wheat ( other types of wheat are less my friend, but sparingly no problem there either). I gained weight and felt pretty nasty on Paleo and being a vegan. Too many fats whether that comes from nuts, seeds, coconut milk or grass fed meat gives me hives and causes breakouts. There's just something my liver does not like about processing a certain amount of fat regardless of source. So there you go, there are no right answers across the board for all people with perhaps the exception of eating less chemically processed crap and eat correct portions. If you listen to your body, you'll find the right balance unique to you. I think portions are really important whatever eating plan you choose. Also, if you have medical conditions or other sensitives honor those. Grains are certainly contraindicated for some people with digestive disorders or people on low residue diets, so having a check up might be a good start also.

Yes. What I think is important to note about how you eat is that it does not raise insulin levels to a level that is unmanageable for your body. This balance needs to be found for every person. Some will hardly be able to eat carbohydrates at all, some can eat lots. Like you already said, listen to your body.

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Let's also not forget that insulin is THE anabolic hormone, for us strength-oriented folks.

True.

Insulin manipulation, whether for performance or muscle gain, is the basis for all nutrient timing.

There is a reason that your postworkout protein works best when taken with sugar.....

Insulin is only to be feared when you are highly resistant to it or your metabolism is otherwise dysfunctional.

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