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Rolls - ow?


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Okay, so, I've been doing rolls for a fairly decent chunk of my life. By which I mean nearly half. Needless to say, I've always felt I was pretty decent at them.

However, for the most part, I practiced in controlled environments. Pads, or grassy areas at most. I was always fine. Grass could be a little rough for extended periods of practice, but not really that bad, even if I was doing dive rolls or rolls from height.

Well, today, I felt I should start making my practice more regular, but it was dark, so I tried to use the nearby gymnasium, which has no pads. Only a basketball court.

OW!

I tried it a few times. I even tried it from kneeling. It hurt. It felt like I was being punched multiple times in rapid sequence by a toddler.

Am I doing something wrong? I know rolls are supposed to be used on any surface, including concrete and asphalt. Sure, the primary purpose is to avoid snapping your legs, but I worry that my form is wrong and I could hurt something else.

So, uh, is it normal for rolls on unforgiving surfaces to be somewhat uncomfortable? Or do I need to check my form?

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In all honesty bro, it could be both. I know when I roll on concrete it doesn't feel all that great cuz of the surface. I hope the pain isn't excruciating though... if it is it could be your form. I would say just slowly keep progressing your rolls on harder surfaces until they get more comfortable. Keep us updated!

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as you guys know one of my goals the last challenge was to become adept at the PK roll. I always practiced on grass. The one time I even attempted to do it on the concrete I couldn't even get myself to roll all the way out of pain and fear.. that stuff ain't easy so . We will get there one day though... I'm sure form is everything.

I'm definitely interested in seeing if you are able to get to the point where it doesn't hurt, keep us posted.

Assassin: Rank: 6 (Disciple) STR: 10 DEX: 20 STA: 7 CON: 6 WIS: 6 CHA: 5
[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
"Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he indeed is the noblest victor who conquers himself." - Buddha
Height: 5'9" Weight: 215lbs Age: 34
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Rolling on concrete is counter intuitive at best, its hard to practice it. You really want to be fast, as its about spreading out the impact. I suck at rolls but i find the faster i go, and the more distance i try to cover, the better my rolls are. A slow roll is. Asically just falling on the ground, all your force is on the first point of contact, and then every time you move all your weight is applied to each new point.

Push hard and go fast and go far forward.

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AZSF - lvl 4 assassin

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Rolling on concrete is counter intuitive at best, its hard to practice it. You really want to be fast, as its about spreading out the impact. I suck at rolls but i find the faster i go, and the more distance i try to cover, the better my rolls are. A slow roll is. Asically just falling on the ground, all your force is on the first point of contact, and then every time you move all your weight is applied to each new point.

Push hard and go fast and go far forward.

seems so much about parkour needs to be done at speed with momentum and technique working together. Thanks for the advice as always Azsf

Assassin: Rank: 6 (Disciple) STR: 10 DEX: 20 STA: 7 CON: 6 WIS: 6 CHA: 5
[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
"Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he indeed is the noblest victor who conquers himself." - Buddha
Height: 5'9" Weight: 215lbs Age: 34
|RW's Chronicle(log)| RW's Introduction|Fitocracy|Challenge|

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I'm in the same boat (I'm learning the roll as part of my 6 week challenge) - I have quite a low body fat percentage and find landing on my shoulder on hard surfaces fine, it's just the rolling over my vertebrae that's really painful. As I'm just starting, I've been adding a bit of padding to the ground (cushion etc - been practising indoors so far) but I know this isn't a practical solution for the long term, so any advice would be gratefully received here, too!

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I would agree that speed is key, as mentioned before. you also have to be getting as "round" as possible, to spread the impact better. Just accept you're gonna hurt yourself and go for it anyway, then be pleasantly surprised when you (hopefully) don't hurt yourself.

btw, dwarves are really good at rolling, due to the short stature and round-ness.

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btw, dwarves are really good at rolling, due to the short stature and round-ness.
Lol! Pandas too! This is totally my area! I earned the name "Panda" in my community (Seattle) because I was so rolly-polly~! xD Ok, so let's see if I can explain this over the internet with any accuracy.

I hear what azsf is saying, but going fast to beat the pain is, I think, only a temporary solution! It's true that, generally, faster rolls on concrete will feel less painful. After all, you're moving over the area of your body much more quickly - impacts are quick and over quicker! But on the other hand, higher speed means more energy, higher impact. At best, this means that you still carry a risk: sometime you're gunna be goin' fast and be a little "square" in your roll and hit that lump. Bruises for days! At worst...yeah! Rolls ain't nothin' ta duck with!

The solution! In four seemingly nonsensical steps!!

1. Soft.

2. Round.

3. Cuddly.

4. Pandapandapanda.

1. Soft.

Correct rolls travel down a fleshy path from one "shoulder" to the opposite "hip".
In truth, during a correct roll a tracer (sic) never impacts shoulder or hip BONES
. Instead, the path of the correct roll:

  1. Starts in the upper portion of the trapezius

  2. continues down the trapezius at a diagonal toward the spine

  3. Crosses the spine briefly (at but a single point)

  4. Down the latissimus dorsi at a diagonal to the...

  5. Upper portion of the gluteus maximus

  6. And out with your roll!

When you roll over a soft part it squishes very nicely - no pain! Conversely, when you clip a bone in your shoulder or hip, the bone can get bruised, but the skin gets pinched at the very least. Ouch!

When I teach this, I say that it's most important to find the
entrance
and
exit
for your rolls.

To find the
entrance
, you can go into slow, controlled rolls and find the spot on your back-shoulder that's softest. Feel it first with your hands to get an idea of where to aim for! dajve, when I started pk I was super bony, so I feel your pain (well, I did) but the path! The fleshy path! It is THERE! Search n ye shall find.
Also, be mindful that getting your chin to your chest will help you (avoid hitting your head) get your shoulder into the correct position.

To find the
exit
,
sit down
. Now lean back until you're on your tailbone. Next, shift to the left or right (put that elbow on the ground to hold yourself up). You'll feel the squish.
That's the area you want to exit the roll.
But keep going in that direction. You'll come to your hip. That's the outter extremity of the path. Now, from that position you can rock forward and backwards (like you're coming out of a roll).
Generally, the narrow band of fleshiness is closer to the spine.
You'll feel the upper crest of your hip bone if you're rolling out too far. Keep rocking until you've got a good feel for the placement of the exit.

And that's 1. Soft! There's a soft path through the roll! Next, 2. Round!

2. Round

This section is shorter:
be as round as possible
. Any corners will hurt even if you're rolling down the soft path. A fellow Seattlelite teacher, Rafe, told me to think of a log.
When you push a log to roll it's harder to push past flat spots because there is a bump.
When WE roll those bumps are harder to get past because they create an impact which slows momentum and ouchouchouch.

Ok, pretty basic, but the rounder you are, the less corners you'll feel in your roll. Blah! Onto 3. Cuddly!

3. Cuddly

Cuddly means cozy! D:< Get a tight ball! D:< DO IT >
:D
This ties into 2. Round. Do slow-speed rolls and TUCK, TUCK! Your goal is to be as small as possible. Tighten all your muscles inwards towards the perfect shape. Try and make your rolls in as short an area as possible. Obviously, at speed from a run or a fall, our rolls will open up, but tight is always right. (But a little disorienting if you're going too fast! Opening up is for when you're more comfortable with the proprioception of your spine and can open safely
:P
)
Main point is to learn the muscle memory of the muscles that coordinate the openness of your roll.
Get to know that wonderful spine! Make it serpentine! Wiggly! In short, you want make sure each vertebre is in the correct position during the roll. (This will save your spine from damage, yep yep). No lumps plz, just cuddlez.

Woo! Pandas are cuddly! Now 4...

4. Pandapandapanda!

Ehem, practice-practice-practice. Back when I thought it all up I wanted it to be very panda-themed. So. Yeah. *cough* *crickets* O.O I'M A FLIPPIN' PANDA OK LEEMEALONE O.O
But in all seriousness: practice makes progress.
Rolls are one of the most technical and difficult-to-master skills in parkour.

Also: pandas. More pandas (panda rolls) in my parkour equals more betterer!

tl;dr find the fleshy path and go back to the basics of tight and slow rolls until you can replicate it at speed. Hope this helps!!

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Lol! Pandas too! This is totally my area! I earned the name "Panda" in my community (Seattle) because I was so rolly-polly~! xD Ok, so let's see if I can explain this over the internet with any accuracy.

I hear what azsf is saying, but going fast to beat the pain is, I think, only a temporary solution! It's true that, generally, faster rolls on concrete will feel less painful. After all, you're moving over the area of your body much more quickly - impacts are quick and over quicker! But on the other hand, higher speed means more energy, higher impact. At best, this means that you still carry a risk: sometime you're gunna be goin' fast and be a little "square" in your roll and hit that lump. Bruises for days! At worst...yeah! Rolls ain't nothin' ta duck with!

The solution! In four seemingly nonsensical steps!!

1. Soft.

2. Round.

3. Cuddly.

4. Pandapandapanda.

1. Soft.

Correct rolls travel down a fleshy path from one "shoulder" to the opposite "hip".
In truth, during a correct roll a tracer (sic) never impacts shoulder or hip BONES
. Instead, the path of the correct roll:

  1. Starts in the upper portion of the trapezius

  2. continues down the trapezius at a diagonal toward the spine

  3. Crosses the spine briefly (at but a single point)

  4. Down the latissimus dorsi at a diagonal to the...

  5. Upper portion of the gluteus maximus

  6. And out with your roll!

When you roll over a soft part it squishes very nicely - no pain! Conversely, when you clip a bone in your shoulder or hip, the bone can get bruised, but the skin gets pinched at the very least. Ouch!

When I teach this, I say that it's most important to find the
entrance
and
exit
for your rolls.

To find the
entrance
, you can go into slow, controlled rolls and find the spot on your back-shoulder that's softest. Feel it first with your hands to get an idea of where to aim for! dajve, when I started pk I was super bony, so I feel your pain (well, I did) but the path! The fleshy path! It is THERE! Search n ye shall find.
Also, be mindful that getting your chin to your chest will help you (avoid hitting your head) get your shoulder into the correct position.

To find the
exit
,
sit down
. Now lean back until you're on your tailbone. Next, shift to the left or right (put that elbow on the ground to hold yourself up). You'll feel the squish.
That's the area you want to exit the roll.
But keep going in that direction. You'll come to your hip. That's the outter extremity of the path. Now, from that position you can rock forward and backwards (like you're coming out of a roll).
Generally, the narrow band of fleshiness is closer to the spine.
You'll feel the upper crest of your hip bone if you're rolling out too far. Keep rocking until you've got a good feel for the placement of the exit.

And that's 1. Soft! There's a soft path through the roll! Next, 2. Round!

2. Round

This section is shorter:
be as round as possible
. Any corners will hurt even if you're rolling down the soft path. A fellow Seattlelite teacher, Rafe, told me to think of a log.
When you push a log to roll it's harder to push past flat spots because there is a bump.
When WE roll those bumps are harder to get past because they create an impact which slows momentum and ouchouchouch.

Ok, pretty basic, but the rounder you are, the less corners you'll feel in your roll. Blah! Onto 3. Cuddly!

3. Cuddly

Cuddly means cozy! D:< Get a tight ball! D:< DO IT >
:D
This ties into 2. Round. Do slow-speed rolls and TUCK, TUCK! Your goal is to be as small as possible. Tighten all your muscles inwards towards the perfect shape. Try and make your rolls in as short an area as possible. Obviously, at speed from a run or a fall, our rolls will open up, but tight is always right. (But a little disorienting if you're going too fast! Opening up is for when you're more comfortable with the proprioception of your spine and can open safely
:P
)
Main point is to learn the muscle memory of the muscles that coordinate the openness of your roll.
Get to know that wonderful spine! Make it serpentine! Wiggly! In short, you want make sure each vertebre is in the correct position during the roll. (This will save your spine from damage, yep yep). No lumps plz, just cuddlez.

Woo! Pandas are cuddly! Now 4...

4. Pandapandapanda!

Ehem, practice-practice-practice. Back when I thought it all up I wanted it to be very panda-themed. So. Yeah. *cough* *crickets* O.O I'M A FLIPPIN' PANDA OK LEEMEALONE O.O
But in all seriousness: practice makes progress.
Rolls are one of the most technical and difficult-to-master skills in parkour.

Also: pandas. More pandas (panda rolls) in my parkour equals more betterer!

tl;dr find the fleshy path and go back to the basics of tight and slow rolls until you can replicate it at speed. Hope this helps!!

I don't have the experience to know the validity of this advice.. but it was put in such an awesome way that I love it anyways LOL... it might also have to do with my love of Kung Fu Panda as well.. slightly.

Assassin: Rank: 6 (Disciple) STR: 10 DEX: 20 STA: 7 CON: 6 WIS: 6 CHA: 5
[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
"Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he indeed is the noblest victor who conquers himself." - Buddha
Height: 5'9" Weight: 215lbs Age: 34
|RW's Chronicle(log)| RW's Introduction|Fitocracy|Challenge|

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