MEN ONLY THREAD part two

[Red1263]

The thing I'm struggling with the most is.... learning to be a leader with people who don't want to be led.

 

And by don't want to be led meaning you can tell them the house is on fire, they would see the smoke and flames and still sit there and call you an idiot.

 

Oh. My. God. I experience this nearly everyday! I'm not even their leader but I see the leader being just as bad if not worse!

 

And yet, if I say something, then I'll get into trouble for being "bossy"! It's not bossy to call you out for not doing your job correctly!

 

sent from my phone whilst exploring new dungeons

 

 

[Rostov]

13 hours ago, Frost of the Gloaming said:

The thing I'm struggling with the most is.... learning to be a leader with people who don't want to be led.

 

And by don't want to be led meaning you can tell them the house is on fire, they would see the smoke and flames and still sit there and call you an idiot.

 

That's a tough one. So much about leadership depends on context, personality (of leaders and followers), tasks, organisational culture etc.

 

I reckon I've learned two main lessons about leadership, or at least things that work for me in my context. I think there are two great evils....

 

1) Alienation - Not telling people why something is important or needs doing. Without the full picture, people are more likely to misunderstand or misinterpret or not pick up on mistakes I've made or suggest better ideas. I think it also needlessly separates the immediate task from the broader picture and/or mission or objective. Sometimes I think managers just don't think people need or want to know the bigger picture (which is often - but as I learnt recently not always wrong), sometimes keeping information back is a result of insecurity.

 

2) Micromanagement - telling capable people not just what needs doing but exactly how to do it. I absolutely hate this, and I find myself irrationally kicking against it even when the instructions are broadly right. *I* don't need telling because I'm capable, so I resent it, and my pride tempts me to subvert or rebel or nitpick. I think good leaders trust people, explain what outcomes are needed, give them the bigger picture and give them the freedom to operate, while being on hand to advise if needed.

 

 

[Frost of the Gloaming]

I hate to say it this way all I know is that place will not get better until two people leave the office; seriously one guys job is twice a day ride an elevator 18 floors dropping off and picking up mail and going to the post office once a day; and yet I get called racist and am picking on him if I notice that he leaves mail in the mailboxes before he goes out on his run; and it's not like we haven't tried to take him off the mail runs and have him do supplies or office moves, or hell I even attempted to show him around the print shop; he just has such a piss poor attitude that other people do not want him on their floor for more than 30 seconds so he is regulated to doing the mail.

 

The other thing that gets me about the guy is that he "knows everything" about how this place should be run, yet after 34 years of being in the office he doesn't even know how to run the mail machine properly (we had a training class on the "new" machine from the company representatives) and as for office supplies we have in the fine print  "back orders could take up to 2 weeks" which he takes as he has two weeks to drop off their office supplies

 

just 34 years of sitting in the same chair doing the same old job, it's not like he will getting a bigger pension if he sticks around and he is definitely not getting a promotion, at that point in time I would just suck it up collect 80% of my paycheck and find a part time job that I actually want to do, but really when you only work for an hour and a half a day, sneak out for 3-4 hour lunches and have HR afraid of you I wouldn't leave either

[Artinum]

18 hours ago, Red1263 said:

Oh. My. God. I experience this nearly everyday! I'm not even their leader but I see the leader being just as bad if not worse!

And yet, if I say something, then I'll get into trouble for being "bossy"! It's not bossy to call you out for not doing your job correctly!

 

I have worked in a number of different roles and places. The truth is that some people are just utterly useless and unpleasant. It's not a very tolerant or positive viewpoint, but it fits the facts - you can break yourself apart trying to motivate some people. They just want to turn up, put in the minimum possible effort and get paid. Long term, get out of that role before it crushes your soul. In the short term, limit your exposure to these ghastly people as much as you can.

[Red1263]

4 hours ago, Artinum said:

 

I have worked in a number of different roles and places. The truth is that some people are just utterly useless and unpleasant. It's not a very tolerant or positive viewpoint, but it fits the facts - you can break yourself apart trying to motivate some people. They just want to turn up, put in the minimum possible effort and get paid. Long term, get out of that role before it crushes your soul. In the short term, limit your exposure to these ghastly people as much as you can.

I'm learning to keep to myself and simply work as efficiently as possible, that will show the higher-ups that I'm working hard and they're not, which will lead to 2 conclusions

1. I'll get advances in my career (ie, special training, etc)
2. they'll start to question the other people's efficiency. 

And so far, it's starting to become apparent, I'm going to get training as a machine tech to work on the machines that we use, and they're still right where they are. Not to mention that as we're getting new people, I can tell that they're not following the bad examples.

[Frost of the Gloaming]

So only two weeks into shaving my head (lotion and razor) and I am liking the ritualistic nature of it, it's turned into an "ok I'm going to do x,y,z and then shave my head" which has helped me get other things done; my wife who hated it when I shaved my head before is coming around to it and honestly I love the way it feels

 

And anyone who thinks they are going to look stupid with a shaved head look around and realize that it's a very popular hair style amongst thinning/bald men; just go for it because it can always grow back 

[Nomad Jay]

On 3/3/2017 at 7:03 PM, Artinum said:

 

I have worked in a number of different roles and places. The truth is that some people are just utterly useless and unpleasant. It's not a very tolerant or positive viewpoint, but it fits the facts - you can break yourself apart trying to motivate some people. They just want to turn up, put in the minimum possible effort and get paid. Long term, get out of that role before it crushes your soul. In the short term, limit your exposure to these ghastly people as much as you can.

 

It'll happen with folks higher on the food chain than you, too. I'm in that situation at work right now. Someone above me is a walking disaster but because he can put on a good face for the the folks above him, he's made of freakin' Teflon. Everyone's counting down the days until he leaves.

[The Spider]

What do you guys recommend for when you're stuck working with a lot of females?  I'm outnumbered almost every shift I work (full time, customer service at a pharmacy).  I get irritated with all their emotionally charged chatter/shrieking at each other, or I get dragged into some kind of workplace drama with which I have actually nothing to do.  I do my best to just come to work, get the job done, and go home, but that prevents me from developing any kind of work friendship.  Any ideas on how to keep the balance?

[Red1263]

Oh dude, I know exactly what you're going through. I've found that by befriending the females that can separate the drama from the job makes it easier. If there are none, then just let the ones you are friends with know that you would rather not be involved in said workplace drama and just keep a healthy distance between them. Keep the friendship somewhat superficial.

 

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[Mark D]

Or you could do what I do, don't make close friends at work.....

 

I see a job as a temporary situation, if it's in my best interests to change jobs I do so with no emotional attachments to former co-workers.

 

This goes doubly for female co-workers.  I've never once in over 30 years of full-time employment dated a co-worker, dipping your pen in the company inkwell can cause issues that HR gets involved in.

 

More to your point, I have zero tolerance from drama-llamas, which would make it even less likely for me to have any relationship with the people involved.

[Artinum]

It depends on the females, really. I was once the only (young) man in a typing pool - I think I sparked off a mothering instinct or something, because they all got on well with me. On the other hand, I had a similar job at another place where the females in question were bitchy and unpleasant to each other. That was not a nice place to work.

 

If you don't get on with your coworkers, regardless of gender, it's in your best interests to move on.

[Frost of the Gloaming]

That would be awesome if you could do that, but in my case that is not an option. So sometimes you just have to remember that "you are not your job" which is 100% easier said than done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Artinum]

2 hours ago, Frost of the Gloaming said:

That would be awesome if you could do that, but in my case that is not an option.

 

Unless you're a slave, it's always an option. Not necessarily an easy one, and it's best to find something else before you quit the current role, but if it's THAT bad - well, unemployment can sometimes be preferable. But even if you don't quit (yet), just getting your escape plan together will make a huge difference to your state of mind. Brush up your CV, start looking for alternatives and figure out where you'd like to go...

[Nomad Jay]

I'm with Mark on this one, don't look friendships at work. Join a baseball team or a running club or something. As the Germans say "Work is work and beer is beer."

As for the chattering/shrieking, I recommend a good pair of ear-plugs if you're not directly dealing with a customer. When I worked in an open-office floor plan (whoever came up with that idea should be shot) I used a pair. Got me some funny looks from people at first, but they got used to it after a while.

 

[wildross]

 

I have worked in a number of different roles and places. The truth is that some people are just utterly useless and unpleasant. It's not a very tolerant or positive viewpoint, but it fits the facts - you can break yourself apart trying to motivate some people. They just want to turn up, put in the minimum possible effort and get paid. Long term, get out of that role before it crushes your soul. In the short term, limit your exposure to these ghastly people as much as you can.

I've got one client who is very difficult to work with. He can't seem to think for himself at all, and whines when our support team won't hold his hand (taking him out to lunch once a month helps though). And it is a very strategic customer. Apparently, his management is tired of him as well, though they (apparently) won't fire him. They just did an internal reorg and his (now former) manager rather gleefully told us the 'J' is now reporting to a manager that 'J' can't stand.

 

J is taking a hint and working on his resume....and my life will be easier.

 

 

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[The Spider]

I may have improperly used the word "friendship" there and should have instead used "relationship" or even more accurately "working relationship."  It's a team effort, a grocery store pharmacy, and I feel I'm not just being segregated but almost ignored even when there might be work to be done and I need to be part of a work conversation, not even necessarily a comic books/movies/tv shows/beer/politics conversation.  I realize I'm not guaranteed a connection with anyone, but the respect to make sure the work gets done properly and in a timely fashion is important.  I've seen tasks take two or three times longer than they should, or just completely ignored, and I wasn't approached for help or guidance, or even to just be asked to do it myself.  I've even gone to check on the status of the task, to see if I could help, and I've been yelled at by coworkers to buzz off.  Along side that, even when there's a small talk conversation and it's something that I have interest in, I go to add to it, and they seemingly intentionally change the subject while I'm talking.  Do you think I'm overthinking it, or do I just work with assholes?

[Frost of the Gloaming]

you work with assholes

[Red1263]

Assholes.

 

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[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

Alpha Hotels to use a military term

 

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[Tanktimus the Encourager]

[WolfDreamer]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:55 AM, Mark D said:

Or you could do what I do, don't make close friends at work.....

 

That's really solid advice. You can work well with people without becoming "friends." I like my colleagues, and we work together as a team. We even have lunch together, laugh, complain about work related things. But I don't get personal, nor do they. We don't "hang out" or open up to each other about personal matters. I think the popular concept of having a "work wife" or "work husband" is both terrifying and unwise. I have one wife, and she's plenty for me, thank you very much.

[WolfDreamer]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:06 AM, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

 

OMG, I saw this without first checking the context (posts above it) and sincerely thought you were having to rescue a donkey from a hole. 

 

[Frost of the Gloaming]

Ha so I was watching the Strongman competition over the weekend and I made a joke about starting to lift heavy so I can look like a strongman, which she gave me an eww face,  "I said Strongman, not body builder" she gave me a weird look so I pulled up some pictures on google in which she replied "Oh ok" 

[MissoulaSquatch]

I have not walked these sacred halls in quite some time.. *burp* *scratch*

[Frost of the Gloaming]

I love it when I accidently let one slip and almost gag myself and you start praying that no one walks by..... or when you think it's a toot and it turns out that you have to take a 5 minute break in between sets lmao; those deep early morning squats will do that to ya