How nice do we have to be?

[shiggles]

OK, so I'm the first to admit that I am a very abrupt person who sometimes lacks tact in some situations.

However I've noticed a gradual increase in certain types of posts, probably simply as a result of the growing community.

These posts I find are generally (in my opinion) showing a bit of laziness or lack of accountability. Things such as asking for information that can VERY easily be found after a single google search (or even a simple on this site), not giving enough information in their original post for people to truly help them or making (bad) excuses regarding diet/exercise and not trying to improve themselves. I don't want to mention any particular threads here as the last thing I want to do is target someone.

But let's use an example. Someone posts something like this (exaggerated example).

"I can't stick with healthy eating. I can't eat enough vegetables so I'm just not going to as I can't see any real reason to".

Now in other forums it may be acceptable to say something along the lines of the following "Stop making excuses, you lazy idiot. Pucker up and eat those vegetables, it takes less than 3 minutes to cook them so stop your whinging". And at times that what I feel like typing, but it's probably going to get deleted as it would be out of line here (and I like that). But I truly feel like some people respond to a smack in the face better than coddling. But is it OK to say something like "I genuinely think you are making excuses and are not trying hard enough" OR "I can't help you as you have not provided enough information" OR "The information you request is easily found by doing a google search, you will find it more useful to do a bit of research rather than asking"?

So yes, where is the line? I know this is a vague question.

[eseng666]

I understand where you are coming from man. But we can't blame other people who are a bit skeptic on those things they see in Google. Like what Steve Kamb said, having an opinion from people who have first-hand experience on it is also important. But i think you are also trying to say that there are certain posts that can also be found by using the "search" feature on the forums.

[bigm141414]

So yes, where is the line? I know this is a vague question.

We try to keep a friendly and supportive atmosphere here on the boards. While I understand that a good kick in the pants is sometimes needed a lot of those situations turn into ad hominem attacks on the original poster which is counter productive. It is hard to judge who responds to that kind of reinforcement on the internet since we know only what they allow us to.

As long as you are not being blatantly rude or mean and your response is constructive it's allowed.

[TheOtherScott]

Nice isn't the word I'd use, but I think we owe it to each other to be as encouraging as possible. Sometimes, that will mean challenging each other to be better, but doing so in a way that tries to re-motivate rather than discourage can be the difference between someone trying harder and someone giving up.

[Razor]

Shiggles, never go to /fit/. Your screen will be out the window.

As for the topic, I think constructive criticism is allowed. As long as you aren't actually insulting someone, objectively observing isn't wrong at all in my opinion. If you objectively discern someone is being lazy, purposefully vague, etc. I think you should be able to voice that observation. Keep it simple and respectful and I don't see how anyone could really have a problem with it.

[Raincloak]

Having watched a few fora flower and wither, I can say that an awful lot of web traffic involves people asking the same dumb questions over and over. Often starting duplicate threads rather than looking for a topic which has been answered repeatedly. You could choose to spend all your free time answering them one by one....

... or not.

[shiggles]

I sort of thought about that and I have left threads alone where I perhaps could have helped but refuse to retype what is easily found elseware (and much better written anyway). The trouble is there are those who perhaps have more patience than me who do reply. And I don't believe people should be spoonfed like this because it can encourage them to repeat it rather than learn to do it for themselves.

There could perhaps be a point in the TOS encouraging people to search the forums. It also might be an idea to create a few stickies in the appropriate forums (such as the are now organised) with links to the most common helpful articles that are out there is the big wide net (and a few would link to NF articles). Even just a link to the 'Top Articles" section I think would answer quite a few questions or at least the information in there would give a lot of question more context with which people can help with.

[SusieBlu]

I think the line is somewhere between insulting the person and commenting on the facts given. I know I have straight up said before I think the person attitude in the situation was wrong and needed to be corrected. What I didn't do was tell them they were stupid or whatever for feeling that way.

[Rostov]

It's impossible to know why people post certain requests for information that's (from the point of view of others) easily available. NokiaGolem's surely right to say that the reliability information found via google searches is one reason. The problem with fitness/healthy eating/weight loss for those who are new to it is that there are a lot of quacks and charlatans peddling expensive rubbish. A lot of marketing tries to give impression that a particular diet or gym or fitness regime has a particular and special and unique magic bullet. People who've tried and failed in the past can end up being tempted to think that there *is* some kind of cheat mode/magic bullet solution that will make everything better with minimal effort.

Another possible reason, I think, is that people want to make a connection. They want to hear from the voice of experience. They want to hear from someone like themselves, but maybe 3-6 months ahead of them. You were where I am, how do I get to where you are? I think also sometimes some questions can be testing the water.... rather than posting my personal account of how I ended up where I am, I'm going to ask something innocuous to test the water and see what response I get.

And maybe some people are just lazy. But the community here seems to have a lot of helpful people, and perhaps its just a case of leaving other helpful people to be helpful if you're feeling burnt out or sick of seeing the same questions over and over again.

[Victoriaoke]

I think also sometimes some questions can be testing the water.... rather than posting my personal account of how I ended up where I am, I'm going to ask something innocuous to test the water and see what response I get.

I'm guessing this is most often the case. Many (but not all) people who end up on a message board are coming from an otherwise very lonely/non-supportive place and just want to reach out to someone, seek the validation of another person saying, "oh, hi! I see you over there existing." And sometimes when people ask "dumb" questions, they are seeking the validation that "everyone really is an a-hole." Or they aren't all that familiar with the internet (yes, those people do still exist) and really don't know you can just Google stuff. People are vast and complex creatures; there are at least a hundred "whys" for every "what" and "how."

[GoToTheGround]

This by far the most cordial and restrained forum I'm a member of...and that makes it incredibly refreshing.

[Erick the Red]

I have also found this forum to be very supportive. I think that the founder's tone has helped with that.

I think it is a little creepy that half of the posts I read on the Challenge boards (and even many that I write myself) are in the "Good job! Keep it up!" vein. Encouraging, but creepy.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

OK, so I'm the first to admit that I am a very abrupt person who sometimes lacks tact in some situations.

However I've noticed a gradual increase in certain types of posts, probably simply as a result of the growing community.

These posts I find are generally (in my opinion) showing a bit of laziness or lack of accountability. Things such as asking for information that can VERY easily be found after a single google search (or even a simple on this site), not giving enough information in their original post for people to truly help them or making (bad) excuses regarding diet/exercise and not trying to improve themselves. I don't want to mention any particular threads here as the last thing I want to do is target someone.

But let's use an example. Someone posts something like this (exaggerated example).

"I can't stick with healthy eating. I can't eat enough vegetables so I'm just not going to as I can't see any real reason to".

Now in other forums it may be acceptable to say something along the lines of the following "Stop making excuses, you lazy idiot. Pucker up and eat those vegetables, it takes less than 3 minutes to cook them so stop your whinging". And at times that what I feel like typing, but it's probably going to get deleted as it would be out of line here (and I like that). But I truly feel like some people respond to a smack in the face better than coddling. But is it OK to say something like "I genuinely think you are making excuses and are not trying hard enough" OR "I can't help you as you have not provided enough information" OR "The information you request is easily found by doing a google search, you will find it more useful to do a bit of research rather than asking"?

So yes, where is the line? I know this is a vague question.

I typically type a response just like the inappropriate one to get my feelings out then go back and edit it. We take great pride here in being cordial and encouraging and even if that's not what you want to do at the time, it's the best course of action. Our primary thing here is encouraging and supporting people and doing it in a supportive way. There are people who were incredibly knowledgable and helpful on these boards who have since been banned because they were brash and aggresive in their posts and refused to change.

On the other side, the things you did post at the end of that paragraph are ok with some people, others not, you have to feel the person out. It's actually harder on this forum because a lot of nerds and people we attract tend to not respond to aggresiveness well and will just disappear, which is why we promote the above. I have no problem going into Seth or bigm's thread and calling them lazy bitches, but I've gotten to know them and know they'll respond fine. Likewise I've been called a bitch in mine and it makes me work harder. But it is hard with new people and I typically treat them with kid gloves until I know how they'll respond.