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An Overview of the Various Strength Training Programs


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update on my first post, i've bought Strength Life Legacy by Paul Carter now, it's got a pretty solid beginner program in it which he used to train his 13yr old daughter, it's not too overloaded with learning new movements and instead focuses on learning the squat whilst doing plenty of ancillary work to prep for deadlifts and doing inclines instead of flat benches as there's less set up and learning required and once that basic strength is down it moves onto the other lifts, his daughters first deadlift was 2 x 2 with 135lbs if i remember correctly (after 6 weeks doing the first part of the program)

 

I took a look at that Lift-Run-Bang thing and was horrified with how chauvinistic it sounded. I was put off even taking a second look. The idea, however, that he put together a program for his female child, though it is his child, and there's that horrifying legacy thing in his "philosophy", made me consider taking a second look. 

 

I also like the idea that there is a program to get ready for beginner programs :) Because it is not like you'd jump out of your couch, warm up and perform a squat, right :)

 

I had my first phase planned for me by a trainer in a regular gym. He's pretty awesome and when he asked me "what's you goal" (expecting to hear weight loss or strength gain) and i answered "i want to be a powerlifter like my favorite athlete" he didn't even laugh! :D I squated without any load a lot, did crunches and sit ups and back extensions, and used dumbbells and machines alike and to this day (five months in) I still feel like I'm learning how to do a proper squat (got a knee injury from the bicyle that didn't help, but...)

 

It's not easy, not easy at all...

"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - W. Faulkner

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Anyone here ever try the Bigger, Faster, Stronger program? Seems like an effective plan for athletic teams. It was one of my options before I decided to go with 5/3/1.

It was my high school football team's program. It's terrible for beginners because it's incredibly hard to track progress with having so many various rep schemes. Once you're advanced and understand using a 1RM as a calculating point like 5/3/1, then it can be useful.

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Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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I took a look at that Lift-Run-Bang thing and was horrified with how chauvinistic it sounded. I was put off even taking a second look. The idea, however, that he put together a program for his female child, though it is his child, and there's that horrifying legacy thing in his "philosophy", made me consider taking a second look. 

you definitely want to stay away from Chaos and Pain then :P

what he's tying to do with the 'chauvinistic' thing is to stop whiny guys from being whiny guys and get them to 'man the fuck up' as it were, the same applies to women too but he's a man and therefore understands men and their training better, he's simply picked his demographic to work with and plays to it a bit, a great deal of men have become weak willed and need a definite push towards doing something, once they get this into their heads and develop confidence (and humility, Paul Carter's also very big on family and responsibility) then they are able to function better as a whole

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It was my high school football team's program. It's terrible for beginners because it's incredibly hard to track progress with having so many various rep schemes. Once you're advanced and understand using a 1RM as a calculating point like 5/3/1, then it can be useful.

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Yeah, I figured a good coach could use it efficiently to herd large groups of adolescents in and out of the weight room, and utilize the whole PR-setting aspect to stroke young, fragile egos. High-fives and chest-bumps highly encouraged.

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You including bodybuilding routines? How about some Charles Poliquin? Some GVT?

No, just strength training. Not meant to be all encompassing, just a starting point for each phase.

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Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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So I'm thinking about changing up my routine and doing strong lift. When you are first starting out how do you determine what weight to do? Like I currently rarely squat and have done deadlifts twice, like 8 months ago, on a Smith machine. Do I just keep putting weight on till I can't do 5 reps and start from there?

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5x5 from the start for all lifts (except the deadlift, which is always 1x5). You start with the empty bar for most of the lifts (but not the deadlift and barbell rows) and add 5 lb. to each lift (10 lb.  to the deadlift) each workout. A spreadsheet that lays it all out is available from the SL 5x5 web site. Sign up with your email, get the free stuff, and unsubscribe when Mehdi's marketing gets too much for you.

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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." Mike Tyson

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hello! I'm new and have a question.

So If i start off with the Beginner Stronglifting plan, do you do workout A and B on the same day, rest, and repeat the next day? Or do you do workout A on monday, rest tuesday, Workout B on wed? Thanks for the clarification!

 

The later. You workout every other day and rotate which workout you're doing.

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Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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Bumpity Bump.

 

So I'm not sure where the 20 Rep Squat breathing program falls- but I wanted to ask advice on the Sheiko Template and since I was here I thought I would throw this down and see what there was on it. 

 

It's a 3 day a week lift- very simple- but it's designed to add size and strength and is more mentally demanding than not. 

Squats   1 x 20 

Over Head Pull 1 x 20

Stiff Leg dead lift 1 x 15

Bench 3 x 12

BB Rows 3 x 15

OHP 3 x 12

 

Game plan is to you take your 5 rep working max and subtract 5 lbs for every work out- 90 lbs- and that's your starting weight. Add 5 lbs (or 10 if you are feeling saucy) every lift.

 

The over head pull is to be done with light weight- like 25-30 lbs- and is not a lift so much as to emphasize the stretch.

 

Rippletoe says you will talk to Jesus- who may ask to work in by the time you finish the 6 week program.  This amuses me.  Up tto the point I have to do my squats- then I'm no longer laughing.

 

anyway- after this comes a traditional strength program- was looking at Skeiko- would we consider that a common one- or something worth mentioning or should I start a new topic on it??

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It's a 3 day a week lift- very simple- but it's designed to add size and strength and is more mentally demanding than not. 

Squats   1 x 20 

Over Head Pull 1 x 20

Stiff Leg dead lift 1 x 15

Bench 3 x 12

BB Rows 3 x 15

OHP 3 x 12

 

Game plan is to you take your 5 rep working max and subtract 5 lbs for every work out- 90 lbs- and that's your starting weight. Add 5 lbs (or 10 if you are feeling saucy) every lift.

 

I just can't imagine that linear progression at that high volume. It looks like a formula for quick and constant failure.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." Mike Tyson

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it's a hellove a lot of suck that's for sure- but from what I've read it gets you results.  There are mod's to it- and if you fail a squat set to repeat it the next time- same weight... and if you fail again- back down to two rest days instead of one between lfits. 

 

shrug- lots of people say it's a great program for 6 weeks- not a long term thing that's for sure. 

 

Came about in 1968- and was a staple for Tom Platz- I'm going to go out on a limb and say it probably works.

but I'll let you know in 4 more weeks LOL

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I've got no experience on Sheiko, which is why I didn't cover it, but it is an advanced program. It looks to be structured such that the beginning workouts will feel light and are meant to get you used to working with such high volume. This is needed because by the end of the 6 weeks, you are basically doing your 5 rep max from 6 weeks ago 20 times. I don't see how one would manage that, but it wouldn't be a traditional set, more like do 5, take a lot of breaths, do 2-3, take a lot of breaths, do 2-3, until you hit 20 (by which time you'll be doing singles). That is unless you're allowed to put the bar down and should be doing the 20 in multiple sets with as little rest as possible. Like I said, no experience with it, but that looks to be the way it's structured.

 

My one concern is the 5 lb per workout reduction instead of a percentage. Over 6 weeks that is 90 lb as you said, but that's a drasticly different % of 5RM for each lift. I'd be dropping bench from about 275 to 185 (33% reduction) but my squat would drop from around 425 to 335 (21% reduction). I'd rather see it as a percentage drop per workout and a % increase. Say a 2% drop per workout, so 36%, then add 2% of the 5RM back on each time. Anyway, I'm sure it's all written out somewhere with tons of variations.

Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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I'd like to do more research on that as well- the 2-3 articles I have read all suggested the 5-10 lb drop verses percentages- wonder if there is one out there based more on percentages.  I also don't think the weight drops matter so much for bench and the other lifts- the only change is really focused on the squat set- i'm actually leaving my weights the same as needed and moving up as I feel comfortable and only forcing the issue with the squat.  Nothing else is mentioned for dropping/adding weight.  But - MOAR RESEARCH... when I can carve some time. 

 

My friend is doing Sheiko- which is why I got curious.  and it looks kind of brutal- and from what I've read it's pretty hard to stick to but the results are great.  I definitely need to do some poking around. The spreadsheets are a little chaotic.   I'd like to do a peaking program after this one- but I really am not sure about getting bogged down into something like that to be honest.  Was more curious to see what others thought. 

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They're ok, I've worked with both my wife and a rebel on NROLFW and it's pretty subpar as far as barbell workouts are concerned, very needlessly complicated, especially for beginners. I'll add them in once I get around to updated this thread though, have a bunch to add at this point.

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Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

Link to post

Was wondering if anyone had any experience with Tactical Barbell.  It's a book by K. Black geared towards Military/LEO/Fire/Medics to build strength without taking away from their ability for unit PT or doing their job.  The book outlines I believe 6 templates and multiple "exercise clusters" ranging from minimalist to heavy and has recommendations based on your goals/workload outside of the gym.  I just started one of the templates and if there is no one following this that has any working knowledge with the program I will put up a review when I finish my first iteration in 12 weeks.

A true warrior does not train tirelessly to fight, or to kill. A true warrior trains endlessly that he may return home alive.
-R. Calloway

 

Maybe the ultimate wound is the one that makes you miss the war you got it in.
- Sebastian Junger

 

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Was wondering if anyone had any experience with Tactical Barbell.  It's a book by K. Black geared towards Military/LEO/Fire/Medics to build strength without taking away from their ability for unit PT or doing their job.  The book outlines I believe 6 templates and multiple "exercise clusters" ranging from minimalist to heavy and has recommendations based on your goals/workload outside of the gym.  I just started one of the templates and if there is no one following this that has any working knowledge with the program I will put up a review when I finish my first iteration in 12 weeks.

I'm not familiar with it, but if you post up the template, I'll let you know what I think.

 

As an aside, I know a few army bases have been doing crossfit as their daily workouts, and the PT tests end up being their easiest work of the week, which they pass with flying colors. Crossfit with a strength emphassis on the programming (plenty of Crossfits do this) could be something else to look into. My guess is the Tactical Barbell does something similar to those programs, tailoring the "cluster" you perform to the work you do outside the gym, giving a full gamot of strength workouts+ endurance workouts while trying to optimize/minimize fatigue for recovery and for being able to perform when it matters while still doing enough work to make progress.

Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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To save time and space I'll throw up the template and cluster I chose.  I'm using the "Greyman" Template with a heave cluster of bench, squat, press, and deadlift.  The book calls for a minimum of 2 minutes rest between sets

Week 1: 3x6/70%

Week 2: 3x5/80%

Week 3: 3x3/90%

Week 4-6 repeat

Week 7: 3x6/75%

Week 8: 3x5/85%

Week 9: 3x1/95%

Week 10-12 repeat then retest.

A true warrior does not train tirelessly to fight, or to kill. A true warrior trains endlessly that he may return home alive.
-R. Calloway

 

Maybe the ultimate wound is the one that makes you miss the war you got it in.
- Sebastian Junger

 

Challenge 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Battle Log

Doodlie PVP Johari Window

Epic Quest Character 

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So you hit each of your 4 lifts once per week with those rep schemes, correct? If so, it's sort of a higher intensity/volume 5/3/1 wave set-up, with a 3 month taper built in as well, sort of like Cube. I think it could definitely work well over time. Progress will be slower than some of the Starting Strength or StrongLifts, which aren't really the best thing to couple with endurance work like daily PT anyway, but probably a bit faster than 5/3/1 due to the slightly higher volume/intensity. It's actually sort of like what I wished 5/3/1 actually was, for the short time I dabbled in it. Speaking of the recovery needs, they will be low like 5/3/1, which will leave you open for performing endurance work and PT type stuff just fine, especially if it's on the opposite end of the day as this workout.

 

The more I look at it, the more I like it for someone who doesn't have strength gaining as their main goal, just one of many. If you're doing PT type stuff in the morning (which includes chins/pull ups, right?) this would be something very doable at night, that wouldn't hurt the next morning's PT too much.

 

I think the intensity might be a tad too high. For example, 85% is typically an estimate we use for 5 rep max, and it has you doing it for multiple sets. I'd make sure to take 95% of your 1 rep max in each lift, and use that as your "training max" that you use to do the calculations. It's what I do for my programming and works well. Are there any guidelines for accessories or other things to do, or are you doing 1 lift and go home?

Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim
500 / 330 / 625
Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge
"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates
"Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith
"It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf

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