Waldo Challenge 9.0

[Waldo]

 

Really love those picture sets of the same weight, too bad you're a guy or it would really drive a point home for a lot of women.

When bulking your BF% with respect to a fixed point is always dropping.

A lot of women tend to pick a target weight. Which is fine. Bulking/cutting in band around that weight will make you leaner at that weight every time you pass it.

......................

Along with large fat deposit relics of wider times going away, the process of bulking/cutting also is IMHO the "cure" to loose skin. Or at least the vast majority of loose skin issues. But both are necessary, the cutting gets the fat off the skin so it can shrink, bulking increases the rate of cell turnover (rejuvination rate) so that it shrinks faster (I also think the growth hormones that lead to muscle growth are important, hence bulking and not just fattening up). Get very lean at least once, way beyond your goals, to get virtually all the fat off your skin. If in the end too much muscle mass is gained, cut it off with a standard diet and chronic cardio, with no weight lifting. This pushes weight goals waaaaay out for people losing weight, but it will vastly improve, if not completely eliminate, any loose skin issues.

I know mine are gone. A lot of people losing a lot hitting the 3/4 mark on the way there on their initial loss have issues and are usually pretty freaked about it. There is so much stupid advice on it out there, very little about hard work you can put in to get rid of the issues.

[Vector]

 

......................

There is so much stupid advice on it out there, very little about hard work you can put in to get rid of the issues.

This is true about most things, isn't it?

[Wolverine]

 

 

Weight is just flying off me.

I might actually for realz have a non-exercise metabolism running in the 3K area currently. Both times I've bulked by the end of it my metabolism clocked in really high, up near 3K, the first time it dropped rather rapidly to 2700 once I started cutting and stayed there. This time the swings are much higher, but it does seem like its staying up there near 3K, which means of course that my 2200 cal/day intake is not a 500-600 cal deficit, 1-1.2 lb/wk, it is actually a 800 cal deficit, 1.6 lb/wk.

If my fat wants to drop this fast and easy, I'm not going to complain. If my deficit was too big for my body to handle, it would downshift my metabolism a little.

 

Have you watched Layne Norton's latest vlog on metabolic damage?  He addresses people who are doing everything wrong, but there's a ton of useful information in it.  It was cool to watch it in combination with reading your thread because you approach bulking/cutting exactly as he recommends and are getting the results he says you'll get by following that protocol.  Cool stuff.

[Waldo]

Haven't seen his most recent one.  Should go watch it.

 

I have watched his first one about Metabolic Damage though.  Good stuff. 

 

This sort of thing has always come pretty intuitively to me.

[Church]

Wow dude. Your grasp and understanding of this stuff is impressive. Like, wow....

[Wolverine]

Haven't seen his most recent one.  Should go watch it.

 

I have watched his first one about Metabolic Damage though.  Good stuff. 

 

This sort of thing has always come pretty intuitively to me.

 

It hasn't for me up until... oh, a few days ago.  I feel like a lot has just all of a sudden "clicked" in my brain, though.  Looking forward to seeing where this newfound understanding takes me.

[Waldo]

The clicking for me was a long, long time ago.  This isn't my first go 'round with bulking and in general bodybuilding type stuff; a few months while I was in college I regularly went to the gym, drank protein shakes and creatine daily, learned all about calorie intake and protein intake and how to gain weight, read the magazines and read what little existed on the web back then.  It didn't last very long and I didn't make a whole lot of progress (didn't use barbells, I think I was benching 100 lbs on the smith machine when I quit), but I at least learned the basics of nutrition for body composition.  I've pretty much lived my whole adult life with that nugget in my mind.  I've always seen food as protein/not protein because of it, and had a reasonably decent handle on metabolism.  Plus seeing how my brother ate and trained really drove it home (didn't live with him until after my little BBing stint).

 

Workout Log - 5/3

Static Upper Body

 

Standard Warmup, Mobility, Cooldown

 

Handstand Wall Walk - 42 reps

 

Planche Lean - 20 sec

Tuck Planche - 6, 8, 3*, 1*, 3*, 8, 2 sec (* = done on PB's instead of hands backward on floor)

Middle Split Hold - 5, 5, 6, 6, 5 sec

 

Tuck Front Lever - 25 sec

Advanced Tuck Front Lever - 15, 13, 13 sec

 

Advanced Tuck Back Lever - 20 sec

Half Lay Back Lever - 12 sec

Back Lever - 6, 6 sec

 

- As figured, abs were a bit fried from yesterday.

 

- Surprised at how my progress is moving on the wall walks.  Every week I add a rep to each side.   It doesn't seem to be getting harder though.  These have notably made my standard handstands during warmups easier.

 

- Woot, gave doing a tuck planche on the PB's a shot and I could do it.  That has always been a goal, since it is the final precursor to really my most important overall goal, getting to tuck planche pushups.  Going to take it easy and ease in, I don't want the splints returning.  I'm considering getting some athletic tape and taping up my wrists for doing them on the PB's, see if that will help prevent splints.

 

- Not much progress to speak of otherwise.

[sammiejune29]

Ha. Never worn high heels (not incl standard running shoes) but I always assumed that at least some force is transmitted through the heel. No?

 

Some is yes. But for me, I definitely notice a correlation between calf strength and the amount of time spent in heels.

 

Really love those picture sets of the same weight, too bad you're a guy or it would really drive a point home for a lot of women. 

 

Makes me really want to do a picture set like this when I get to the point where I want to be bulking/cutting

 

When bulking your BF% with respect to a fixed point is always dropping.

A lot of women tend to pick a target weight. Which is fine. Bulking/cutting in band around that weight will make you leaner at that weight every time you pass it.

......................

Along with large fat deposit relics of wider times going away, the process of bulking/cutting also is IMHO the "cure" to loose skin. Or at least the vast majority of loose skin issues. But both are necessary, the cutting gets the fat off the skin so it can shrink, bulking increases the rate of cell turnover (rejuvination rate) so that it shrinks faster (I also think the growth hormones that lead to muscle growth are important, hence bulking and not just fattening up). Get very lean at least once, way beyond your goals, to get virtually all the fat off your skin. If in the end too much muscle mass is gained, cut it off with a standard diet and chronic cardio, with no weight lifting. This pushes weight goals waaaaay out for people losing weight, but it will vastly improve, if not completely eliminate, any loose skin issues.

I know mine are gone. A lot of people losing a lot hitting the 3/4 mark on the way there on their initial loss have issues and are usually pretty freaked about it. There is so much stupid advice on it out there, very little about hard work you can put in to get rid of the issues.

 

 

This was really really fascinating to read. Thanks!!

 

Also I'm super impressed with your progress on the toe goal And its inspired me to start moving my toes more, especially when I'm sitting and relaxing or writing posts on Nerd Fitness. Lol. 

 

Also, when taking waist measurements you talk about flexed and cheated at belly button. What exactly are you measuring and what does it tell you?

[Waldo]

This has sort of changed a little as I've gone from fat to fit.

 

I started measuring my belly button, then 1" above my belly button (then to the smallest part, which is about 1"-1.5" above the belly button) pulled snug but no more.  I realized that this was in reality a very difficult to replicate measurement day after day (used to take measurements of the waist much more frequently).  How hard you pull the tape has a huge effect.  As I got leaner flexing hard and pulling the tape hard tended to give about the same readings as a snug unflexed measurement, the difference being that I could repeat the data point easily.

 

So I switched to doing it that way (long ago now, before I started taking weekly measurements of everything)  At the thinnest part of my waist, I stand up straight and flex my abs/core as hard as I can (without pushing with my diapham, I don't' stick my belly out, just flex), then pull the tape pretty hard, that is my main waist measurement.

 

Since the first measurement can be cheated by not flexing as hard, another thing I do is measure at the belly button, suck in a bit and pull that sucker as hard as I can without flexing (within reason, I'm not trying to hurt myself, really there is a point where it stops moving without a huge amount of force).  As a cheated measurement it is useless for BF% formulas and is lol small, however it is useful for tracking week to week change with peace of mind.  Being a fully cheated measurement, I can't cheat anymore.  If the tape moves, my belly got bigger/smaller.

 

The stomach and fat areas in general are hard to always measure the same way, since fat is a bit smooshy how hard you pull makes a huge difference.  Muscles are much easier, flex and pull the tape snug, you should get consistently reliable results as long as you always flex the same way.

[sammiejune29]

Fascinating! Thanks!

[Waldo]

So, now that we're halfway through the challenge, and we're about halfway to Memorial Day (unofficial start of summer) since my cut started.  Update.

 

Progress Photo:

 

 

Full Size:

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww269/Waldo56/Self/CutCollagewk4big_zps40c3e5a7.jpg~original

Slowly but surely.  Weekly progress photos don't show a ton of change, but each week gets further from the beginning.  Flexed shots are a lot harder than they seem, getting the arms symmetrical and everything flexed takes practice.  Haven't been doing a good job flexing the lats as of late (they aren't shrinking as dramatically as it seems, just not doing a good job flexin' em).

 

Measurements: 4/14-5/5

Height: 6'1.3" -> 6'1.3" (+0.0")

Weight: 203.0 lb -> 200.2 lb (-2.8 lb)

Est BF%: 12.7% -> 11.6% (-1.1%)

Est LBM: 177.2 lb -> 177.0 lb (-0.2 lb)

Est FM: 25.9 lb -> 23.2 lb (-2.7 lb)

 

Neck: 16.6" -> 16.4" (-0.2")

Chest: 49.0" -> 49.0" (+0.0")

Waist Flexed: 33.0" -> 32.3" (-0.7")

Belly Cheated: 29.9" -> 29.1" (-0.8")

 

Bicep R: 15.6" -> 15.6" (+0.0")

Forearm R: 12.8" -> 12.9" (+0.1")

Bicep L: 15.3" -> 15.1" (-0.2")

Forearm L: 12.5" -> 12.6" (+0.1")

 

Glutes: 41.5" -> 41.3" (-0.2")

Top Thigh R: 26.0" -> 26.0" (+0.0")

Mid Thigh R: 24.3" -> 24.3" (+0.0")

Calf R: 16.3" -> 16.1" (-0.2")

Top Thigh L: 25.9" -> 25.6" (-0.3")

Mid Thigh L: 24.1" -> 24.0" (-0.1")

Calf L: 15.6" -> 15.6" (+0.0")

 

Metabolism does seem to be settling back to 2700.  Shocker.

 

Average daily net calorie intake has been: 2169.8 cals

Average daily gross calorie intake has been: 3036.1 cals

Average daily exercise burn has been: 866.3 cals

Average daily protein intake has been: 207g

[Church]

You're looking pretty huge man!

[Vector]

Doing fine, man. 

[Waldo]

So, I think the mental battle with cutting is starting to come on.

- This morning I woke up really hungry; my mind set about coming up with an alternate plan shifting back to bulking.

- Even though things are moving exactly as I expect, the emotional side is always disappointed with how slow things move. My logical side and emotional side don't always see eye to eye.

- Part of it comes from ever shifting my BF% estimate higher. I've given up on any formula but the modified Y formula being right. Last Christmas I made it to what I thought was 10.x's (averaging the formulas), but I'm leaner now than I was then and I don't feel like I'm that lean.

- Maybe I'm just going through an I feel fat phase, but I don't think that I'll be into the 10.x's until the end of the challenge. To get down to the 8's will require a refeed. Am I really mentally comitted to another 2-3 months of cutting, especailly since it will become harder by the day? I'm almost through the easy part.

- It isn't really a maybe I feel fat phase. Saturday we went clothes shopping, and I got some new jeans. Tried on several a size smaller than my usual size. Super tight jeans really make the belly look bad, so I'm dealing with some changing room depression. Emotionally I feel like I've got to lose another 20-30 lbs to get to where I want to be.

- Logically I know (hope) that I need to lose about 8 more lbs of fat, to 192 lbs with no muscle loss, in order to get to 8%.

[Vector]

The mind and the emotions can be buggers, eh? You logically know that you are doing fantastic (at least when you are rested and well fed!). Work the plan from that space, and trust that you made good decisions, at least until you have solid evidence that something would be served better by a change.

[obax]

I feel ya on the emotional side not seeing eye to eye with the logical side. There seems to be a lot of that going around, or at least a lot of mental struggles rather than physical ones.

 

I will say, from where I'm standing, you're doing amazing as always. It's hard to be patient with this kind of stuff, and it seems like more patience is required the closer you get to your goal, but if anyone can get there it's you! Trust in the logic, it won't steer you wrong!

[Norgaard]

its amazing to see how you do everything with such precision.

 

you are an awesome data freak!.

 

always nice to jump in here to get some motivation, keep on going strong! (and lean)

[Georges]

So, I think the mental battle with cutting is starting to come on.

It is so weird to read that post right after the photo update.  You are showing so much more definition that my mind can't make the connection between how you are physically looking and how you are mentally feeling.

[Waldo]

It is so weird to read that post right after the photo update.  You are showing so much more definition that my mind can't make the connection between how you are physically looking and how you are mentally feeling.

Part of it is dressign room depression.

But part of it is that I'm starting to see the signs of hormonal shifts. The first month or so of a cut, your body is still pretty much in bulk/maintain mode, the tummy is a little rumbly at times, but for the most part the weight just easily melts away. Then it get wise to what you are up to, and it starts to fight it.

The way your body fights starvation is extremely mental, and the leaner you get the more powerful the signals are. They also are more noticable when you haven't been cutting a long time and losing a lot, when you haven't been in a state of somewhat starvation for many months, which helps to deaden the signal.

Warfare is a good analogy.

My body is is basically in the scouts/forward infantry firing some warning shots phase. Still pretty minimal, but compared to no warfare previously, it is a bit shocking at first. But this isn't my first song and dance with this, I know what is going on.

Next up comes the infantry with small arms. Some brain fog. Lethargy. Coldness. A little more mood swings, now quite as happy all the time. Hunger increases from a short lived annoyance to being fairly constant between meals. But it is easily dispatched with a little snack.

If that doesn't do the trick, out come the tanks and artillery. All of the above, except that the mood swings and general bummerness becomes much stronger. Hunger becomes a constant that is no longer cured by snacking. Even meals don't really cure hunger. Food fantasies start, where you start daydreaming/dreaming about eating really filling things (usually a lot of meat). Snacking starts to lose its appeal.

If that doesn't work, the air force gets involved. All of the above, stronger. Your body goes in serious conserve calories mode. Sex hormones get really messed up. Men completely lose all desire for sex. Women's periods go crazy or disappear entirely. Your emotions are completely out of control and pretyt much eating is the only thing on your mind.

With each step it becomes harder to deal with your bodies fight. It takes ironclad willpower to fight through since the desire to quit is so strong. Really the big guns are only and should only be experienced if you are cutting for a BBing show. Doing a thorough refeed causes your body to ease off.

Its good to be aware so that you can refeed when appropriate. The more you body fights, the more lean mass you lose. Day 22 now I'm starting to see the first signs. I should be good to go through to the end of the challenge, but by then I almost surely will be experiencing perma hunger and food fantasies. If I want to cut beyond that (I do currently), I will need a 1-2 week refeed, lest it get really brutal.

[sammiejune29]

What is a thorough refeed? Lol

 

Also, I think you are doing great and looking great! (I get dressing room depression too, even though I know I'm very pretty)

[UberTumbleweed]

Dressing room depression is the pits.  Your photo logs do look seriously impressive, but the dressing room mirrors are so loud with their negativity.  You have my sympathies, man.

 

I really appreciate you sharing all this with us.  I'm learning a lot, and I feel like it's going to become more and more useful as I lean-up and drop fat.

[Waldo]

What is a thorough refeed? Lol

 

Also, I think you are doing great and looking great! (I get dressing room depression too, even though I know I'm very pretty)

A refeed that is long enough and of suffient enough calories to completely knock you out of your diet. 1 week minimum.

Eating extra on the weekends might help delay the onset of starvation symptoms, but it isn't enough to reverse the hormonal changes. You really need your body to chill out without further shocking it. Longer periods at maintenence are far superior to short lived huge intakes way over maintnence.

I usually don't get dressing room depression (quite the opposite). Was the combo of too tight of a stiff fabric (jeans) and the general jigglyness that comes from cutting. I got mini-muffin top. Eek. Sure I get it while sitting, but not when standing. Especially bad that it was right when I reached my leanest "ever" point (by ever I mean the last decade or so). Has nothing really to do with sizes, really couldn't care less about that.

[empeg9000]

Awesome progress photos Waldo. 

[aj_rock]

Since you asked re: BF estimates.

 

First, I wouldn't ever try to give someone a higher precision than within 1-2%, it just can't be done considering all the variables. Fore example, I tend to take my photos with overhead lighting, to enhance vertical separation, whereas you seem to use a lightsource about 8-10 feet in front of you, which washes out vertical but plays up horizontal.

 

Either way, I'd say you're ahead of me, so I'd give you 11%. Mind you, I also let your calculated numbers factor in somewhat.

[Waldo]

 

Since you asked re: BF estimates.

 

First, I wouldn't ever try to give someone a higher precision than within 1-2%, it just can't be done considering all the variables. Fore example, I tend to take my photos with overhead lighting, to enhance vertical separation, whereas you seem to use a lightsource about 8-10 feet in front of you, which washes out vertical but plays up horizontal.

 

Either way, I'd say you're ahead of me, so I'd give you 11%. Mind you, I also let your calculated numbers factor in somewhat.

Thanks.

Always have that "am I crazy for thinking ...." at the back of my mind.

True about the lighting. I can never see internal vertical separation unless I am in strongly directional side light. You pretty much nailed the distance dead on, though its a external flash pointed straight at the ceiling, there isn't much actual direct light from it (had it tilted in the first photo, which caused the shadows).