Slightly experienced dieter/exerciser needs some tips... (Ex paleo, looking for answers)

[lucidzfl]

Fair enough Waldo.  I mean, one thing I've realized about body fat % is that the only people who really know it, or respect it are others who are trying to be accurate about it.  Most people start off by WILDLY understimating their body fat % and I think I'm at the next step where I'm trying to get closer to reality.   What matters is looking better in the mirror. 

 

I'll increase the protein amount i injest.  I cut most of my own meat so I have a freezer full of beef tenderloin, ny strips, lamb, cut pork loin, various seafoods  and chicken.  I think I have about 30 lbs of red meat alone

 

If I wanted to get a more closely accurate representation of bf% what do you recommend?  I've done the ymca, the neck/waist/blah blah measurements and the fat calipers.  I think the highest I've seen it is around 18.5% and I think that was the multisite measurement version.  Should I just take the highest and work from there?  

 

(as I said, in the end it really doesn't matter and is a meaningless number to anyone who doesn't REALLY get bf%)

[Waldo]

Yes I use the most conservative # possible. I've actually begun adding 2" to my tape measrement for use with the formulas so that it is the same size as the tape measure with almost no pull on it at all (an absolutely impossible to repeat measurement though).

BF% is mostly meaningless. However where it does have meaning is when you want a specific goal, like all your abs plainly visible and reasonably defined yet soft unflexed (10-12% BF), knowing where you are now is important for diet planning purposes. Cutting to that point from 20% is a whole different world than cutting to that point from 14%. From 14% you're looking at 4-8 weeks. From 20% is more like 4-6 months.

[lucidzfl]

Yes I use the most conservative # possible. I've actually begun adding 2" to my tape measrement for use with the formulas so that it is the same size as the tape measure with almost no pull on it at all (an absolutely impossible to repeat measurement though).

BF% is mostly meaningless. However where it does have meaning is when you want a specific goal, like all your abs plainly visible and reasonably defined yet soft unflexed (10-12% BF), knowing where you are now is important for diet planning purposes. Cutting to that point from 20% is a whole different world than cutting to that point from 14%. From 14% you're looking at 4-8 weeks. From 20% is more like 4-6 months.

That being said, assuming I'm in the 18-20% level, and wanted to get to say, 14%.  And I do strength training in the mornings 6 days a week and am adding MMA in the evenings, what kind of diet should I follow?  I have an unlimited amount of resources and time (within reason) to get my diet precise for my goal.  And its taken me months to get to the way I look in my picture from

 

This: (January this year...)

 

 

To This: (about a month ago, before hitting the strengh training with heavier weights...

 

 

To the way I look in my picture in my profile... (taken this morning)

[Bolson32]

Waldo, I'm surprised your waist drops down that much. I know everyone is different, but at one point, I was 6'1" 220lbs, and miserably weak. Now I'm about 180lbs and SIGNIFICANTLY stronger/leaner and my waist has maybe dropped all of 2 inches. I wore 34's before and now I wear between a 32 and 33 depending on brand.

 

Although I pretty much carry all of my body fat in my belly/love handles and face. My legs, shoulders, arms etc are very lean. I'm really interested in what you have to say about losing beyond the mid teens as I seem to be stuck there. Although I've been gradually losing weight for pretty much the last five years, but I've seem to come to a standstill now, so I think you're right. I need to re-think my strategy, maybe adjust my diet a little bit, increase cals/protein etc.

[Waldo]

 

That being said, assuming I'm in the 18-20% level, and wanted to get to say, 14%.  And I do strength training in the mornings 6 days a week and am adding MMA in the evenings, what kind of diet should I follow?  I have an unlimited amount of resources and time (within reason) to get my diet precise for my goal.  And its taken me months to get to the way I look in my picture from

 

This: (January this year...)

 

 

To This: (about a month ago, before hitting the strengh training with heavier weights...

 

 

To the way I look in my picture in my profile... (taken this morning)

Congrats on the loss.

There really is nothing special on cutting through the teens. Strength training and elevated protien (both to prevent muscle loss) is really all you need along with a calorie deficit.

Bigger thing is that you need to go slow (1 lb/wk ish), and you need to plan for breaks every couple months, perhaps experiment with weekend carb refeeds, both with increasing frequency as you get leaner. When you start to get ravenous its time for a break. Refeeds can help stave off the effects a bit.

[lucidzfl]

Thanks for the help Waldo.  Sounds like I'm on the right path.  I'll increase protein to 160gms per day to account.  At this point, I think I only need to lose about 10 lbs of fat.  That sound about right?

 

What is a weekend carb refeed?  I assume that doesn't mean eating cheesecake and kilwin's iced cream

[Morrigainz]

Why not? Demz de delicious carbs!

[Waldo]

Bolson32, on 21 May 2013 - 11:10, said:

Waldo, I'm surprised your waist drops down that much. I know everyone is different, but at one point, I was 6'1" 220lbs, and miserably weak. Now I'm about 180lbs and SIGNIFICANTLY stronger/leaner and my waist has maybe dropped all of 2 inches. I wore 34's before and now I wear between a 32 and 33 depending on brand.

Although I pretty much carry all of my body fat in my belly/love handles and face. My legs, shoulders, arms etc are very lean. I'm really interested in what you have to say about losing beyond the mid teens as I seem to be stuck there. Although I've been gradually losing weight for pretty much the last five years, but I've seem to come to a standstill now, so I think you're right. I need to re-think my strategy, maybe adjust my diet a little bit, increase cals/protein etc.

That's crazy that your waist wasn't any bigger when you were that big. I wore 38's when I was in the high 20's of body fat (we won't talk about the 40+ that came before that...). And still wear 35's. I can get into 34's, but they are usually a bit uncomforable, waist is usually fine unless I wear my pants lower, but 34's tend to be overly tight in the thigh and butt. Unless we're talking Old Navy. Might be a 32 in Old Navy sizes.

Pants sizes are a poor measure of waist size though. Ideally you want to measure at your belly button or a bit above (at your natural smallest point). Only old people and old school nerds wear their pants that high. On your hips, where most people wear their pants, you are going to measure a good bit smaller when overweight and bit bigger when lean.

[Waldo]

lucidzfl, on 21 May 2013 - 11:46, said:

Thanks for the help Waldo. Sounds like I'm on the right path. I'll increase protein to 160gms per day to account. At this point, I think I only need to lose about 10 lbs of fat. That sound about right?

What is a weekend carb refeed? I assume that doesn't mean eating cheesecake and kilwin's iced cream

Junky type carbs are usually fine as long as you've got some fiber as well. However they cannot have much of any fat along for the ride, which kills most treat foods as most have both high carbs and fats.

Low fat ice cream OTOH, nom nom nom.

[Horsedog]

That's crazy that your waist wasn't any bigger when you were that big. I wore 38's when I was in the high 20's of body fat. And still wear 35's. I can get into 34's, but they are usually a bit uncomforable, waist is usually fine unless I wear my pants lower, but 34's tend to be overly tight in the thigh and butt. Unless we're talking Old Navy. Might be a 32 in Old Navy sizes.

Ya man - a 34" waist at 6'1" @ 220 lbs with with high-20s BF% is crazy small   I was hovering at 23-24% at 6'5" @240 lbs and I was definitely uncomforable (and "on display") in 36" waist pants...even now at 18% (227 lbs), 36" waist is the bare minimum.

[Bolson32]

That's crazy that your waist wasn't any bigger when you were that big. I wore 38's when I was in the high 20's of body fat (we won't talk about the 40+ that came before that...). And still wear 35's. I can get into 34's, but they are usually a bit uncomforable, waist is usually fine unless I wear my pants lower, but 34's tend to be overly tight in the thigh and butt. Unless we're talking Old Navy. Might be a 32 in Old Navy sizes.

Pants sizes are a poor measure of waist size though. Ideally you want to measure at your belly button or a bit above (at your natural smallest point). Only old people and old school nerds wear their pants that high. On your hips, where most people wear their pants, you are going to measure a good bit smaller when overweight and bit bigger when lean.

 

Ya man - a 34" waist at 6'1" @ 220 lbs with with high-20s BF% is crazy small   I was hovering at 23-24% at 6'5" @240 lbs and I was definitely uncomforable (and "on display") in 36" waist pants...even now at 18% (227 lbs), 36" waist is the bare minimum.

 

Honestly, I'd wager I was probably pushing 30% or over. We're talking dropping 95lbs on your chest weak. Struggling to do full form pushups weak. Pullups were a fantasy.

 

I dropped down at one point to 21% at 171lbs taken via BodPod. I am currently noticeably leaner, bigger, and stronger than I was when that was taken so I'd wager I'm around 15% at around 180. I'll probably get another BodPod done at the end of the summer before I start starting strength.

 

In reference to the same size waist, I just have a unique ability to carry my fat in my stomach, above my waistline, and my jowls. Those things come out to play every now and then at this weight ha. I still have a bit of a fat line that sits just above my belt that I can't seem to get rid of and bugs me when I wear a bigger belt.

[cline]

I missed your breakfast earlier.  One egg?  Egads.  MOOOOORE protein pwo.  Also get some slow carbs in you... not just quickie sugars.

[lucidzfl]

What qualifies as slow carbs? I don't mind what I eat, just need to know what it is

 

ETA: Today was balanced, thats why only 1 egg. I typically have 3 eggs and bacon, no bread. Today, I had 1 egg, 2 bacon, bread and fruits.  I alternate.

[cline]

Starches, less fruit. 

[lucidzfl]

Ok.  Well can I still keep the berries as part of the breakfast?  For the antioxidents?  I added red potatoes to lunch today, and can add that or rice for dinner tonight.  That sound better?

[cline]

Berries are fine. Moderation.

[lucidzfl]

Sorry to bump this yet again, but I didn't want to start a new thread.  What do you consider a caloric deficit?  According to myfitness/et al, I should be eating 1750 calories a day in order to lose weight.  According to the BMR calculator, I should be at 1741.  Now obviously BMR means I'm basically dead, so myfitness is probably calculating in (what I put down as) very minor general activity.

My question is this: You guys are telling me to eat more protein because I'm hungry, but I'm now at a quandry.  Today, I got lots of protein (164 gms) and had some slow starches, but my calories are up to about 2050 for the day... I also obviously had more carbs. 120 for the day... However, I admit, I FEEL GREAT tonight.  Full, satisfied, and strong(!!)

I guess it'll all even out if I can carry this energy over to my workouts, but Waldo keeps mentioning "caloric defecit"... What should my target caloric intake be? 

 

[bigm141414]

Usualy deficit is whatever you usually burn per say (total daily energy expenditure or TDEE) and subtract 500 cals. 

 

 

The only way to figure that out is to a) track what you eat and 2) track what you weigh. You'll see a trend after a while of how much you consume vs your change in weight (best to use a moving average of like 5-7 days to even out variations)

[lucidzfl]

I track what I eat daily down to the snacks. I range Fromm 1600 calories to 1800. Tonight I was bad and hit 1900. My question is, what should the target be? We've discussed at length how to calculate tdee but I still don't know how to calculate it. I work a desk job but live on the third floor of my apartment and I lift weights for 30-45 minutes a day...

[Morrigainz]

That's where the tracking everything comes in. The best you can do with calculations is an estimate. So you go with that estimate, and do what bigm suggested above. Track what you eat, and track your weight. Over a period of weeks, look at the trend. If weight is going down, then good. If weight is going up, cut more calories out and track for a few more weeks.

[lucidzfl]

Ok MirGSS.  I'm going to try that.  Today I switched to 6 egg whites for breakfast and I'm going to cut my butter / cream throughout the day and see if that makes a caloric difference.

 

I'll update again in 2 weeks

[Bolson32]

Eat the yolks man! They're good for you

[Morrigainz]

It may take more than 2 weeks. I've been on a cut throughout this entire challenge, eating at a deficit, and here's what my weight chart looks like.

[lucidzfl]

MirGiss, you've gained a lb in one month?   Also: I said 2 weeks because that how long I have left in my 3 week cut cycle.  2 weeks just happens to be the next time I'm going to take measurements and body fat % measurements.

 

Bolson:  Yolks are high in calories, high in cholesterol.  Also, every body builder diet I saw has them eating egg whites.  I assume they know what they're doing.

[bigm141414]

Bolson:  Yolks are high in calories, high in cholesterol.  Also, every body builder diet I saw has them eating egg whites.  I assume they know what they're doing.

 

 

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on serum cholesterol. And never assume people know what they are doing. Most of the time they are doing something wrong.