Does anyone want to talk keto?

[thatgirljj]

Are there any rebels out there who want to chat about keto diets?  Either regular low carb high fat (LCHF), or cyclical ketogenic diets?

 

Earlier this year I was doing a moderate ketogenic diet (about 40-50 net carbs, paleo + dairy and fairly high in veggies), and lost about 15 pounds, without a lot of effort or suffering.  In fact it worked a little too well... I ended it after I came down with salmonella, felt really weak and I needed the carbs back to recover.  After a few months of my weight staying relatively steady on a higher carb paleo diet, I went a little food & cocktail crazy over vacation, so I think I'm going back to doing keto for a bit.  

 

Is anyone else eating this way?  Want to swap recipes or support?

 

-jj

[bigm141414]

Keto diets are good for short term losses (think a few weeks to a month or so). They can be used a few times a year if needed but the body does not like living in such a state forever, especially for highly active people, hence the weak feeling. 

 

When I go low carb like that everything becomes grilled, either outside or in my cast iron since I eat a lot of meat.  

[thatgirljj]

Eh... I disagree.  I did it for 4 months earlier this year, while carefully monitoring my athletic performance and had pretty good results.  The "weak" I was referring to was how awful I felt after having salmonella at the tail end of that 4 months... 3 days straight of keeping down nothing but occasional ice chips will make anyone feel weak, and the stomach bug had taken my weight below what I feel is healthy for my body.  Aside from that... if you really think that LCHF is inappropriate for highly active people, you might consider that it's an approach being used by some ultra-endurance athletes to overcome some of the challenges of fueling during long races.  

 

For me, I seem to have found a particular approach to keto that is a weight loss sweet spot for me... losing steady, not feeling annoyingling hungry, enjoying the food I eat.  It's what other people seem to feel about IF... an approach that made me a bit crazy.  OTOH... I can maintain my weight pretty well eating more moderate carb Primal, so I'm not exactly a member of the low-carb-4-life team.  

 

-jj

[The Mouse]

I'm currently on keto - this will be my 4th month straight. I've lost at least 15lbs (my scale broke - oh noes!) and I've actually noticed an increase in energy and a stable reserve to draw on during activity. I plan to continue it until after Christmas - as much to chase abs as to avoid overdosing on cake and sweets.

 

Mind you, I'm not heavily active - I lift/do bodyweight 2-3x a week and do karate for 2.5hrs 2x a week (but it's not always intense). However, I've read some convincing stories of ultra-marathoners and heavy lifters who find that keto works fine for them. It might really be a personal thing, I think. But for me, I find that I don't get dizzy, hungry or tired during Saturday morning karate if I miss breakfast. On a standard diet, I would be hungry and hit a wall after the first 45 minutes if I didn't eat something before hand.

 

I stick to 25g carbs or less (though I don't sweat if I go to 30g) and have actually found it hard, recently, to eat carbs above that. If I feel like being "bad", I'll treat myself to a good amount of cherries without counting it to the carbs - it satisfies my sweets craving like nothing else and I don't feel guilty that I scarfed down a chocolate bar or something. I also have a hard time hitting my "cut" caloric goal of 1600cal - I usually come in at 1300-1400cal. And I feel stuffed eating that.

 

I do plan to up the carbs once I'm at maintenance (not exactly paleo, but no white breads or potatoes - sweet potatoes and oats maybe), and try TKD if I find myself hitting walls while training. I also do plan in "breaks" from keto - as much for the occasional treat as for a shock to the system.

 

I love /r/keto for recipes, as well as dessertswithbenefits and Low Carb Linda.

[cline]

I did very low carb for about 1.5 years with great success and I was super active. But I did reach kind of a stall point in my training. Have since left that diet per se but use very low carb for some meals on occasion.

[thatgirljj]

I'm currently on keto - this will be my 4th month straight. I've lost at least 15lbs (my scale broke - oh noes!) and I've actually noticed an increase in energy and a stable reserve to draw on during activity. I plan to continue it until after Christmas - as much to chase abs as to avoid overdosing on cake and sweets.

 

Mind you, I'm not heavily active - I lift/do bodyweight 2-3x a week and do karate for 2.5hrs 2x a week (but it's not always intense). However, I've read some convincing stories of ultra-marathoners and heavy lifters who find that keto works fine for them. It might really be a personal thing, I think. But for me, I find that I don't get dizzy, hungry or tired during Saturday morning karate if I miss breakfast. On a standard diet, I would be hungry and hit a wall after the first 45 minutes if I didn't eat something before hand.

 

I stick to 25g carbs or less (though I don't sweat if I go to 30g) and have actually found it hard, recently, to eat carbs above that. If I feel like being "bad", I'll treat myself to a good amount of cherries without counting it to the carbs - it satisfies my sweets craving like nothing else and I don't feel guilty that I scarfed down a chocolate bar or something. I also have a hard time hitting my "cut" caloric goal of 1600cal - I usually come in at 1300-1400cal. And I feel stuffed eating that.

 

I do plan to up the carbs once I'm at maintenance (not exactly paleo, but no white breads or potatoes - sweet potatoes and oats maybe), and try TKD if I find myself hitting walls while training. I also do plan in "breaks" from keto - as much for the occasional treat as for a shock to the system.

 

I love /r/keto for recipes, as well as dessertswithbenefits and Low Carb Linda.

 

Wow... there is a reddit for absolutely EVERYTHING these days, isn't there?  That's hilarious, I'll have to check it out.  Pinterest is also useful if you search for "keto" or "LCHF" although you might have to use the swedish or norwegian translator in your browser.  I keep a pinterest board to organize my recipes.  

 

I don't eat artificial sweeteners, so a lot of the low carb dessert stuff is out for me, but I can stay in ketosis around 40-50 net carbs, so I eat some fruit every day, which cuts down on the chocolate cravings, like you say.  I do agree with you that I'm very happy to up carbs for maintenence... I know that there are people who train hard and maintain their weight on a HFLC diet, but it seems like it would be unpleasant, I mean... I love cheese, coconuts and macademias, but I don't love them THAT much!  I have a hard time stuffing in the calories without feeling full  Then again, maybe the ultramarathoners are eating more carbs overall.  Dunno... they're a different level of athlete.

 

I have kind of the opposite problem from your breakfast-before-karate... I often train in the evening.  When I'm eating more carbs that means I HAVE to refuel after working out, or I'm really edgy and don't recover well.  If I'm steadily in ketosis, the timing is less important... I can train, go to bed, and eat breakfast at my normal time with no problems.  No biggie.  

 

-jj

[The Mouse]

Ha ha, there is a reddit for everything. There's a reddit about avocados gone wild, too. It's pretty hilarious.

 

I've found stevia a good replacement for sugar, though my current liquid stevia gives everything a pretty obvious taste. My recent experiments with a white chocolate bar failed, so I may have to resort to Splenda or erythritol (which is a natural sweetener as well). But yeah, fruits > sweets at every turn for me. It's that fresh, refreshing taste.

 

Yeah, I get what you mean! I have a hard time eating the 1600cal, so when I go up to 2000cal for maintenance or so, I have no clue what I'm gonna do if I stay keto. I also want to eat my fruits guilt-free. Except bananas. Those things are ridiculous.

 

Glad to hear you're having some good results with it! It's lovely when you have a consistent stream of energy - makes everything more tolerable.

[I-Jo]

omg hard time eating 1600?

 

wow

 

I struggle to get below 2000 (I'm supposed to be cutting at 1900... and it's killing me) and even without eating breads and stuff- I come in closer to 100 carbs a day.

 

getting less than 50 is impressive- but I"m a total fat kid at heart- on so many levels. lol

[thatgirljj]

Ha ha, there is a reddit for everything. There's a reddit about avocados gone wild, too. It's pretty hilarious.

 

I've found stevia a good replacement for sugar, though my current liquid stevia gives everything a pretty obvious taste. My recent experiments with a white chocolate bar failed, so I may have to resort to Splenda or erythritol (which is a natural sweetener as well). But yeah, fruits > sweets at every turn for me. It's that fresh, refreshing taste.

 

Yeah, I get what you mean! I have a hard time eating the 1600cal, so when I go up to 2000cal for maintenance or so, I have no clue what I'm gonna do if I stay keto. I also want to eat my fruits guilt-free. Except bananas. Those things are ridiculous.

 

Glad to hear you're having some good results with it! It's lovely when you have a consistent stream of energy - makes everything more tolerable.

 

I've only started to read reddit again after a long break and was astonished that they now have communities for bodyweight training and everything.  It's nuts.  The place used to just be an entertaining cesspool.  Haa haaa.

 

I sadly can't eat stevia either.  Splenda, nutrasweet and stevia all cause me problems, but I've had good luck with limited amounts of the new monkfruit sweetener.  I haven't tried using very much though, since like the stevia it sometimes has a weird taste.  Plus... well... I think that a bunch of sweet desserts is just not a good idea in the first place.  I don't need to be eating that stuff on the regular.

 

So when I was off and maintaining, I pretty much ate similar things, but added in some sweet potatoes or something else starchy with dinner and had an extra piece of fruit every day.  It didn't trigger any mad cravings or anything... but I did have to go back to managing my eating around workouts a little more intensively.  On the few times I had something really sweet (like cake at my son's birthday) I just scaled back my carbs at other meals for a day or two.  It's not really rocket science, but I know it can be scary to contemplate if you're losing well doing what you're doing.

 

 

omg hard time eating 1600?

 

wow

 

I struggle to get below 2000 (I'm supposed to be cutting at 1900... and it's killing me) and even without eating breads and stuff- I come in closer to 100 carbs a day.

 

getting less than 50 is impressive- but I"m a total fat kid at heart- on so many levels. lol

 

Haa haa... yeah, I'm eating somewhere between 1200-1500 a day (I'm super-short), and I would be hard pressed to push down more food than that.  Well, except macadamia nuts, but they get old after a while... never thought I'd say that!

[I-Jo]

yeah I'm definitely not super short.  God- would be great if I could live off 1200-1500... fat kid problemz.  they getz expensive!!!

[cline]

I can easily do <50g carbs/day. I did it for quite while. I feel really good there. BUT was still getting in enough cals.

[This is Seth]

I just came off of a 3 month keto stint. 2400 kcal a day, under 30 g of carbs. Cycling a carb night on most Friday or Saturday nights, depending on what the weekend plans were.

I was able to drop body fat insanely efficiently, but saw losses in strength and energy levels. I've come out of it for the time being to reevaluate my fitness goals.

[cline]

I just came off of a 3 month keto stint. 2400 kcal a day, under 30 g of carbs. Cycling a carb night on most Friday or Saturday nights, depending on what the weekend plans were.

I was able to drop body fat insanely efficiently, but saw losses in strength and energy levels. I've come out of it for the time being to reevaluate my fitness goals.

Yeah strength loss is part of the bargain.

[The Mouse]

I must be lucky re:strength loss - probably 'cause I was weak and not lifting to start with, though. I've made some nice gains on keto, though I guess if I weren't on keto I might gain faster. But I'm in no rush to make lifting gains. I don't mind taking my time and actually learning the form before reefing myself into pieces... Again.

 

 

 

 

omg hard time eating 1600?

 

wow

 

I struggle to get below 2000 (I'm supposed to be cutting at 1900... and it's killing me) and even without eating breads and stuff- I come in closer to 100 carbs a day.

 

getting less than 50 is impressive- but I"m a total fat kid at heart- on so many levels. lol

Ha ha, I'm also super-short, so my BMR is 1250 or so. 

Also. Eggs. Lotsa lotsa eggs. And jerky. Nom... Grass-fed jerky.

 

I'm thinking once I add in sweet potatoes to the extent that I want 'em (baked sweet potato + brown sugar splenda/honey + a little bit of cream), I'll probably be able to eat 100+ carbs a day easy, ha ha! Must. Develop. Sweet Potato. Discipline....

 

I've found so long as I stick to veggies as my "carbs", the only days I get close to 25+ is when I eat a ton of berries or jicama.

 

 

 

I've only started to read reddit again after a long break and was astonished that they now have communities for bodyweight training and everything.  It's nuts.  The place used to just be an entertaining cesspool.  Haa haaa.

 

I sadly can't eat stevia either.  Splenda, nutrasweet and stevia all cause me problems, but I've had good luck with limited amounts of the new monkfruit sweetener.  I haven't tried using very much though, since like the stevia it sometimes has a weird taste.  Plus... well... I think that a bunch of sweet desserts is just not a good idea in the first place.  I don't need to be eating that stuff on the regular.

 

So when I was off and maintaining, I pretty much ate similar things, but added in some sweet potatoes or something else starchy with dinner and had an extra piece of fruit every day.  It didn't trigger any mad cravings or anything... but I did have to go back to managing my eating around workouts a little more intensively.  On the few times I had something really sweet (like cake at my son's birthday) I just scaled back my carbs at other meals for a day or two.  It's not really rocket science, but I know it can be scary to contemplate if you're losing well doing what you're doing.

Ha ha, I must've gotten lucky just figuring out how to work it now. XD

 

Aw... But that monkfruit sweetener sounds interesting. I'm up in Canada, so I doubt we'd get it up here anytime soon, though. I admire your ability to stick to your guns! I find making replacements to be a good way for me to remove excuses like "I won't be able to eat chocolate again" or stuff - if I can make myself healthier alternatives, then I can fall to those when I really want to scarf down that chocolate. But I do so much admire when you can go and give 'em up completely. I should aspire to that, for sure.

 

Yeah, I figure when I go back to maintenance I'm going to want to get a new scale and really be strict in my measuring. As much to prevent regain as for science and curiosity. I'm really interested to see what my body's threshold for carbs is....

 

I won't deny it's namely for sushi.

[This is Seth]

Get Naruto Maki instead of sushi. That was always my way to get my sushi fix without the need for rice. Cucumber rolls instead of those pesky carbs.

[The Mouse]

Naruto Maki? *goes to see*

 

 

Uwooooah!!! That looks awesome! I'd probably have to cut half a field of cucumbers to get that thin a slice, but man. That does look good. 

[I-Jo]

when I eat with my bodybuilding friends and they are on low carb days- they do seaweed wrap (they ask for the paper specifically) then cucumber slices- and just eat their fish that way.

 

Win win for everyone... I am going to try it one of these days.  Sushi rolls are one of the last bastions standing in the form of pure starchy carbs. 

[thatgirljj]

Yeah... I guess because I'm in LA, it's not impossible to find rice-free sushi at even the local sushi dives.  Somebody is always cutting out something, so the restaurants are really flexible and creative with their rolls.  The place by me even does a "baseball" of crab covered in paper thin slices of avocado.  It sounds amazing, but I ordered it once, and actually  it's just a bit overwhelmingly crab, crab, crab for my tastes

 

Aw... But that monkfruit sweetener sounds interesting. I'm up in Canada, so I doubt we'd get it up here anytime soon, though. I admire your ability to stick to your guns! 

 

It's not really a "stick to my guns" sort of thing.  Art. sweeteners trigger a reaction that can put me in the ER with a severe vertigo attack.  It's really awful and I'd rather just eat a very small piece of chocolate and count the carbs than mess around with desert substitutes.  Sucks, but that's the hand I've been dealt.  

 

And now you have totally ruined me by rekindling my reddit obsession.  :-P

 

Oh and since I restarted keto last Tuesday?  5 pounds down.  BAM.  If I can just lose a steady 1 pound a week from here on out I'll be back at my sweet spot weight in 5 weeks.

 

-jj

[DaemonCorax]

So maybe you can help me out a bit.  What does a keto diet look like over the course of the day?

 

I've been finding by trial and error that a fat-heavy diet makes me feel better - my blood sugar doesn't crash after lunch, I don't bonk at 4 pm, etc, etc, but I don't know if I'm strictly in keto-land or if my digestion is running in hybrid mode with a lean toward fat/protein.  Does it matter? 

 

I eat beans/rice/sausage for lunch, but my snacks are peanut butter, cheese, and hard salami.  My breakfast is full-fat yogurt with fruit and walnuts or a little cereal.

 

The thing is, for the past few months, it turns out, I have been cutting bodyfat.  I haven't lost weight, but it seems (from Steve's pics) that I have dropped 3-4% bodyfat.  As a woman in the 15-17% range, I am happy with the improvement and all, but I'm hungry and grouchy. 

 

I DO fall in the heavily active category.  This puts me needing over 2400 cal/day.  Probably more like 3000 on days I lift.

 

I figure riding to/from work:

17 mi, with bag, usually fixed gear, with traffic lights and hills.  Avg 12 mi/hr with lights.  If I take the longer 12 mi loop to work, I get to work in the same amount of time 16 mi/hr.  So lets say 600 cal/hr.  Total for the day: ~800 cal on the bike

I work on my feet intermittently:  some days I sit for 30 min, sometimes 3 hours.  I ride on the days I lift, hitting the gym for a 45-60 min workout ideally twice a week.  Recently I've been so tired (hothot weather) that there have been a couple weeks I only went once.  I try to have one couch day a week, but that is inconsistent too.

A couple times a week I take the "long way" to work or home, provided it's under 90F out.  This is  more mileage and faster speeds, average 16-17 mph on the fixie for 12+ miles. 

Recently I've been too tired to take a 25mi+ route home

 

SO:  Assuming I'm a hybrid, digestion-wise, what's some good fuel for my keto half?  How do you maintain energy?  I just want to play outside and in the gym without feeling quite so thrashed the next day.

[This is Seth]

If it's working for you, keep it up. But strictly speaking, based on your general meal descriptions, you're most likely not in ketosis. There's just too many carbs sitting in that rice, nuts, yogurt, and fruit. One banana can be more than your daily allotment of carbs and knock you out of ketosis.

A general day for me usually looked like:

No breakfast, I only eat from noon to 8pm. Intermittent fasting thing..

Lunch of 8-10oz chicken breast with a whole(~8oz) avocado, and possibly some cheese.

Snack of black coffee with a tblspoon or two of coconut oil

Dinner of 1-1.5 lbs fatty protein: pork chop, steak, chicken thighs, sausages, whatever. With a side of .5-1 lb broccoli/cauliflower/kale.. Usually covered in cheese or something else.

Everything is usually cooked in butter or rendered bacon fat.

Now remember, as a 205 lb male, I needed 205 grams of protein a day, hence all the meat. The greens and avocado usually roughed out to 15-25 grams of net carbs. The rest of my ~2400 kcal a day was derived from fat.

I was always full and the coffee certainly helped with the energy levels. I also supplemented with multivitamins, magnesium supplements, extra salt in everything, and tons of fish oil.

[cline]

If it's working for you, keep it up. But strictly speaking, based on your general meal descriptions, you're most likely not in ketosis. There's just too many carbs sitting in that rice, nuts, yogurt, and fruit. One banana can be more than your daily allotment of carbs and knock you out of ketosis

 

this.

 

a typical day when I'm in very very low carb mode is

 

Breakfast:  2-3 eggs scrambled w veg and some meat

 

usually no snack unless stomach growls

 

Lunch:  a bunch of meat and veg (no added fat usually b/c of meat unless it's a low fat meat then a small amount of oil or avocado)

 

Snack:  some protein like egg whites, etc.

 

Dinner:  see lunch.

 

No fruit, dairy, etc. 

[jediokie]

If you're going to do a keto diet, invest in ketostix. They're about $14 for 100 at the local drug store. They'll tell you for sure if you're in ketosis. I've been on a strict keto diet for the last 5 weeks and I've lost 30lbs. Sounds impressive but its only about 7% body weight. My favorite thing to eat so far on the diet is paleo bread(made with almond or coconut flour) toasted with 1oz cream cheese and 1oz almond butter. Great snack. I also eat lots of ribeye steaks with butter. I'm lucky in a way that I'm so big because my daily calorie goal is 3205, which I never hit because I'm never hungry anymore.

 

I've noticed easier strength gains this last cycle of my workouts after being on keto as well (I'm assuming the high amount of protein).

 

After my fourth week I relaxed to 40-50g of carbs a day which still keeps me around 6% carbs overall. I do miss fruit a lot and just now started adding blueberries and strawberries into my weekly meal plan with the higher carb allowance.

[thatgirljj]

So maybe you can help me out a bit.  What does a keto diet look like over the course of the day?

 

 

Yesterday looked like this...

Breakfast: Chia seed pudding made with coconut milk.

Lunch: Stir fry with veggies & korean beef.  

Snacks: Some broccoli & cheese patties and some pecans

Dinner: Roasted chicken (with skin), sauteed zucchini with parmesan cheese, small amount of carrot & sour cream salad.

 

Today is going to look like this...

Breakfast: Chicken & zucchini breakfast cassrole

Lunch: Coconut fish stew, green beans & the last of the broccoli/cheese patties.

Snack: Pecans

Dinner: Chinese chicken salad with a generous topping of sliced almonds.

 

-jj

[FauxReal]

My understanding of ketosis is that it can be quite dangerous long term, most often leading to kidney failure. The kidneys fail because they aren't able to dilute the excess protein quickly enough. Now, I'm not saying that kidney failure happens immediately- it tends to happen after repeated states of ketosis. But it is something to consider. I think I read an article about a guy who was doing P90X (which is heavy heavy on protein and super light on carbs) who was sent to the hospital with kidney failure/ketosis. 

 

I got my info on ketosis from webmd.com

[This is Seth]

My understanding of ketosis is that it can be quite dangerous long term, most often leading to kidney failure. The kidneys fail because they aren't able to dilute the excess protein quickly enough. Now, I'm not saying that kidney failure happens immediately- it tends to happen after repeated states of ketosis. But it is something to consider. I think I read an article about a guy who was doing P90X (which is heavy heavy on protein and super light on carbs) who was sent to the hospital with kidney failure/ketosis. 

 

I got my info on ketosis from webmd.com

If you were to live off of just protein, you would most likely have some problems with your kidneys. Thankfully though, most people who get into the keto lifestyle are a bit more informed than that. The cause of kidney failure is via keto-acidosis, too much uric acid(protein decomp byproduct) to the kidneys.

Thankfully, it's easily compensated for by keeping properly hydrated. Its really that easy. As long as you're properly hydrating, keeping your vitamin intake high enough, and not drinking too much alcohol, you'll be just fine.

I know quite a few people who are in their 5+ year of being completely keto. They're doing just fine.