Jump to content

Does anyone want to talk keto?


Recommended Posts

If you were to live off of just protein, you would most likely have some problems with your kidneys. Thankfully though, most people who get into the keto lifestyle are a bit more informed than that. The cause of kidney failure is via keto-acidosis, too much uric acid(protein decomp byproduct) to the kidneys.

Thankfully, it's easily compensated for by keeping properly hydrated. Its really that easy. As long as you're properly hydrating, keeping your vitamin intake high enough, and not drinking too much alcohol, you'll be just fine.

I know quite a few people who are in their 5+ year of being completely keto. They're doing just fine.

 

Yup.  Unless you have a history of kidney problems, you'll be fine. 

Link to post

I am really freaking struggling with this.  The reason?  Fruit.  On Atkins, when I was surviving on shakes, and bars, and other chemical/soy laden crap I didn't have this issue.  But doing the majority whole and natural foods, Even one serving of low sugar fruit puts me over the top. (Top being 50g).

 

But I did use a ketostick last night, and I am testing postive in the low range, so maybe I can live with this (more like 70g).  I won't lose as fast, but it's sustainable.  I have one HIGH carb day a week (aka cheat day, when I indulge in ice cream), but every other day is clean.  The single biggest problem I'm having is taking in enough calories while keeping carbs under and protein high enough.  Not worried about fats at all, really.  Macros are currently about 50% fats.

 

It works really well.  Too well.  I am just not freaking hungry.  And I am unable to do the sheer amount of physical activity it would take to GET me hungry.  So I wind up with days below 1200 calories, which for me means really slow weight loss.  Meh.  I'll figure something out.  I have a feeling that tuna will become my friend.  Will whip up some Paleo Mayo this afternoon and start snacking on tuna

 

At any rate, if anyone else is on MFP, I'm wideeyedla over there, and my diary is open if you are willing to offer some tips.

Link to post

I'm talking to a dietitian tonight. They agree with me on keto working for my long term goals but they want me to change from strict to rotational in that they want me to have a scheduled carb up day or to do the eat 20g of carbs prior to lifting and directly after. They said it will help with muscle growth which is one of my top three goals for the next year.

 

I was planning on having a cheat weekend this weekend but I recently realized my 20 year reunion is the weekend after sooo I'll wait for then (it's at a brewery and I miss beer).

Link to post

agreed.  seems a little strange.  However, as we've pointed out, strength gain will be limited on a keto diet.  You can't have both after a while. 

 

And yeah, fruit is a downer.  It's nature's dessert not a part of every meal. 

Link to post

agreed.  seems a little strange.  However, as we've pointed out, strength gain will be limited on a keto diet.  You can't have both after a while. 

 

And yeah, fruit is a downer.  It's nature's dessert not a part of every meal. 

 As soon as I can figure out how to do the green smoothie without any, I'll be golden.  Working on it :)    For the same reason I'm trying to do keto, I really have to stay away from artificial sweeteners - which can have an impact on neurological function if your brain is so inclined (and mine is so screwed up right now that I'm not tempting fate by adding anything back yet).  I will use pure Stevia occasionally, but trying to limit even than.  I have the ketostix, and I'm showing a small amount of ketones, so maybe I can go a little over 50.  This isn't about lifting/shaping/weightloss (although that would be a really nice bonus) as much as it is about trying to get my health issues under control.  I would really like to be able to get off a couple of the meds I have to take every day, because I sort of like my liver :)

Link to post

Here is the other question I forgot to ask.  When I did Atkins, I counted net carbs.  I am looking at total carbs at the moment.  Which number should I be looking at?  There is a huge difference.  If I am looking at net carbs, I'm doing much better (lots of fiber in those veggies).

Link to post

Net carbs are the only thing that will affect your ability to stay within ketosis as fiber isn't digestible, so it can't produce glucose. 

Thank you.  According to the lovely shadeo of pale pink, I AM producing ketones, but I am in the low range. Good enough for now.  Pain is under control, and I'm not wanting to sleep all afternoon.  I'm full, I'm happy, and I'm finally figuring out how to hit 1200 calories a day consistently, because I'm not yet working out intensely and I'm just not freaking hungry.  So now the goal is to add 300 more calories without upping carbs.  That's about a can of tuna with Paleo mayo a day, or another hunk of meat.  Think I can do it.   It is a bizarre thing to track calories to make sure you aren't eating too few of them.

Link to post

My understanding of ketosis is that it can be quite dangerous long term, most often leading to kidney failure. The kidneys fail because they aren't able to dilute the excess protein quickly enough. Now, I'm not saying that kidney failure happens immediately- it tends to happen after repeated states of ketosis. But it is something to consider. I think I read an article about a guy who was doing P90X (which is heavy heavy on protein and super light on carbs) who was sent to the hospital with kidney failure/ketosis. 

 

I got my info on ketosis from webmd.com

 

That's some incorrect information right there.  Keto diets aren't high protein diets.  Keto diets are usually high in fat, very low in carbs and moderate in protein.  Children on very extreme ketogenic diets to control epilepsy are able to be on the diet for years without kidney failure (although they run a slightly increased risk of kidney stones, but those don't actually damage the kidneys).  

 

But even high protein diets don't cause kidney failure.  If you have damaged kidneys then high protein diets (as well as diets too high in sodium & potassium) can cause further problems, but if you don't have existing kidney problems, it's not something to worry about.

 

-jj

Link to post

Here is the other question I forgot to ask.  When I did Atkins, I counted net carbs.  I am looking at total carbs at the moment.  Which number should I be looking at?  There is a huge difference.  If I am looking at net carbs, I'm doing much better (lots of fiber in those veggies).

 

NET CARBS baby!!!  Very important.  You don't turn those fiber carbs into glucose, they just fill up your GI tract.  

 

And incidentally, I don't eat artificial sweeteners either.  I really limit my fruit... I'll have like 1/4 cup of frozen raspberries a couple of times a week and that's usually it.  Maybe give up the green smoothies and eat more real food?  Like a huge green salad or veggie filled soup.

 

-jj

Link to post

If I'm counting net carbs, I'm golden.  Ketostix are my friend - moved from small to moderate today.  So I CAN have a VERY limited amount of fruit.  The smoothies are chock full of other stuff like chia and flax and spinach and almond milk, and powdered egg white (no additives), so I either need to figure out a way to add more veggies and make it savory or find lower sugar fruits and measure CAREFULLY.  It's helping me hit a lot of the micros I'm trying to hit. I need to be looking at the net carbs and the sugars (all from plants) and seeing where the sugar is coming from and how much I can cut.  I don't do saccharine, sucralose or aspartame, but I will, very rarely, use pure stevia.   Since I'm doing this mainly to deal with neurological stuff, and it seems to be working (other than the "Gee, I never knew that bananas were a migraine trigger," migraines), I've been almost headache free since I started which is, in and of itself, a freaking miracle.  Also much less other pain.  So all is well.  I'll settle for a slightly slower weightloss in return for more sustainability :)

 

The veggie soup for lunch thing will definitely be a go to for cooler weather, thanks for the idea :)

 

Thanks everyone - I know I'm not doing keto for the same reasons you are - nothing to do with lifting at all (for now, for now), and I appreciate the expertise.

Link to post

They want you to do TKD and CKD? That seems like a bit much, do one or the other... they both work well individually, but I don't know anyone who runs both of them at the same time. 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. No, they want me to do CKD. The owner of the gym (dietitian's husband) had asked me about TKD and was wanting to know if that was an option I wanted to look at versus CKD. I was already planning on evolving my diet into a CKD from SKD but they are suggesting weekly cycles and I was looking at bi-weekly or even monthly cycles. I have goobs of self control when there are results.

Link to post

If I'm counting net carbs, I'm golden.  Ketostix are my friend - moved from small to moderate today.  So I CAN have a VERY limited amount of fruit.  The smoothies are chock full of other stuff like chia and flax and spinach and almond milk, and powdered egg white (no additives), so I either need to figure out a way to add more veggies and make it savory or find lower sugar fruits and measure CAREFULLY. 

 

frozen blackberries are your friend.1 cup of these bad boys has 15g net carbs... and who adds a whole cup to a smoothie?

Link to post

You have not seen the size of my smoothies...

...and this is why the Nutribullet is PERFECT for me. Portion control. But I am trying to get smaller, whereas you are trying to get bigger. You can have the blackberries that I can't manage to cram in. Then add Chia and flax. They have more fiber than carbs, and lots of nice omega 3 calories. I know the powdered egg whites I use wouldn't do you any good, but they make powdered whole egg too ;)

Link to post

P.S. Seth,

I am wishfully thinking, I know, but does the one day a week high carb thing only work for lifting, or is it good for ketogenic in general. Don't mind me. I'm just trying to justify my 1,000 calories worth of Cold Stone Ice Cream every Saturday. I'm going to have it regardless ;)

Link to post

The two schools of thought that I've read into are keto for weight loss and keto for sustainability in lifting. There are cases of people doing CKD for weight loss, but honestly, there is no real reason to.

CKD is a means to, once a week, refill all your glucose banks and allow your body to refuel and repair with a cheap energy source.

TKD is a means to provide absolute minimum glucose to stimulate faster muscle growth via cheap energy sources, but completely deplete it during the workout in order to not remain out of ketosis.

Neither of those definitions fit what you want to do. That said, do a cheat day. I won't lie, I had pizza and beer nights. It made me feel better. I still dropped 5% of pure body fat in a 6 week challenge.

Link to post

I don't do keto, like the Atkins sort, or Protein Power, because I cannot eat enough food, and if I do I usually end up gaining the wrong sort of weight, and feeling sick and cold all of the time.... that said, I watched what my Grandmother ate every day, and she could have probably benefited from cheat days.

Link to post

I do cheat day for one main reason: it keeps me clean the rest of the week.

I see something I want, and start the pity pot bullshit about having to not eat everything I want to, and I remind myself that I can have it on Saturday.

By the time Saturday rolls around, I have forgotten about most of it. However, I NEVER forget my ice cream. EVER. It's also restaurant night if we go out.

I don't think that a restrictive diet is sustainable long term if you try too hard to be perfect ALL of the time. This go around for me, it's about my health, and if I "cheat" I get to live in a permanent state of DOMS. So I log everything (especially the cheats!) so I can track my body's reaction.

Crisci, have you ever tried transdermal magnesium for ASD stuff? I think I am going to order magnesium oil for all of us, because there isn't time for a thirty minute Epsom Salt soak every night.

Link to post

Magnesium is crucial as a supplement for this diet. I take a couple magnesium pills a day, depending on what I've eaten and(not to be gross) the density of my stool.

I am just getting IBS managed (all hail the mighty Chia). Oral magnesium is probably not an option. I know transdermal works for the Autism stuff sometimes, so I figured we'd try it. Supposed to help with fibro too.

In fact, the article I was reading (not scientific journal, anecdotal, so questionable, but one of those won't damage me if I try it things) suggested that what is often diagnosed as fibro may actually be magnesium deficiency. Believe it or not, I am probably getting MORE now than I was. I don't think donuts and cold cereal (and there were days I didn't deliberately eat ANY protein) have a lot of magnesium. Just a guess, I didn't look up the nutrients. Really, my diet was total crap.

Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...