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The Rambling Ronin


Kishi

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Hey Kishi!!!

 

Let's see this. :)

 

You will. You know me.

 

Well done! I've only heard myths and legends of tabata intervals, good on you for handling 'em!

 

Well, it's a curious balance. Typically, it's supposed to take the place of the standard cardio in that three days o stranth, three days o running in most people's routines. Working it in like this should prove to be interesting.

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Schedule: 3/3


 


Odd strength: 2/2


 


Writing: 2/3


 


Woot! Big news. Worked out yesterday, and got offered the job at the Personal Trainer's studio that I've been working at!


 


It's no reason to rest, though. It's only 15 hours per week to start with; any extra money I'm gonna make here is gonna be based on how much clientele I bring in. But I get a bigger cut of the percentage and also the chance to sub in for them both, make some money that way. As it is, I'm gonna be developing their marketing for them, which means I'll get the chance to put some of what I've been studying to work.


 


SO EXCITING.


 


And, also, I worked out.


 


Kipping Pull Ups; 4x2 (flowing with these is tricky).


Jumping Squats: 4x11


 


Plyometric Push Ups: 4x6


Jumping Squats: 4x6/side


 


Bent One Arm Rows: 4x6x30


Ankle Hops: 4x11


 


Hanging Knee Hold: 3x17s (SO HARD).


Bridge Hold: 3x6s


Plank/Side Plank: 3x35s/18s


 


Total Time Elapsed: 31:23


 


Good day, yesterday. And I get to rest some today. Cool.


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Woot! Big news. Worked out yesterday, and got offered the job at the Personal Trainer's studio that I've been working at!

 

It's no reason to rest, though. It's only 15 hours per week to start with; any extra money I'm gonna make here is gonna be based on how much clientele I bring in. But I get a bigger cut of the percentage and also the chance to sub in for them both, make some money that way. As it is, I'm gonna be developing their marketing for them, which means I'll get the chance to put some of what I've been studying to work.

 

SO EXCITING.

 

=D That´s incredible! Congratulations! Time to shine!

 

Any battle plan? =)

 

 

And, also, I worked out.

 

Kipping Pull Ups; 4x2 (flowing with these is tricky).

Jumping Squats: 4x11

 

Plyometric Push Ups: 4x6

Jumping Squats: 4x6/side

 

Bent One Arm Rows: 4x6x30

Ankle Hops: 4x11

 

Hanging Knee Hold: 3x17s (SO HARD).

Bridge Hold: 3x6s

Plank/Side Plank: 3x35s/18s

 

Total Time Elapsed: 31:23

 

Good day, yesterday. And I get to rest some today. Cool.

 

As usual your routines are both intense and technical. 

Level: 4 Human Monk


STR: 14 | DEX: 7 | STA: 10.75 | CON: 6.75 | WIS: 13.75 | CHA: 1.75 |


 


"Effort without results is only self satisfying bunk" - Kain R. Heinlein.


 


"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." - John Wooden.


 


"Misery is comfortable. Happiness takes effort." - David Wong.

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Sounds like life is rockin' and rollin'.  I love that!

 

I know, right! I'm kind of giddy right now, not gonna lie.

 

=D That´s incredible! Congratulations! Time to shine!

 

Any battle plan? =)

 

 

As usual your routines are both intense and technical. 

 

Heck yeah! I've been reading some stuff on how to publicize business, and I think the biggest problem that he's dealing with right now is he's just not getting in front of enough people. Admittedly, he hasn't had to: he's developed a great deal of longevity with his clientele, and they tend to stick around, so it suits him. A third person bringing in business on the side isn't gonna hurt things for him at all, and it looks like I'll be the one doing the training.

 

Thanks, man. That kipping is its own skill, and figuring out consecutive repetitions is gonna be a challenge.

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Congratulations on the job offer Kishi - That is great news! :)

 

In regards to kipping pull ups, here is some advice from Coach Sommer (of Building the Gymnastic Body)...

 

"Kipping pull-ups or, as I call them, Chinese pull-ups, are useful tool for easily increasing total amount of repetitions as well as more importantly developing elasticity in the shoulder girdle. They are also beneficial is developing a sense of rhythm and coordination. 

Someone who already understands the mechanics of the movement can start from a hang, however I have found that it is usually easiest for beginners to begin from the top of the pull-up. To get the most benefit from a kipping motion on pull-ups I would recommend the following: 

1) Begin from a static hold at the top of the pull-up. 

2) Drop as quickly as possible to the bottom of the pull-up. While the body is dropping press the shoulders (feel the arm pits STRETCH) forward and the hips backward. This will result in the body somewhat resembling a stretched out letter C with the hands on the bar, the shoulders slightly in front of the hands and the hips slightly behind the hands. 

3) Bounce strongly out of the bottom position. Use the momentum from the bounce to propel yourself back up to the bar, strongly reversing your body position on the way up. Do not attempt to stop precisely at the top of the bar, but allow the body to go as high as it wishes. Your may find that your hands are also hopping slightly off the bar at the top if your kip has been powerful. Finish with hands on the bar, shoulders slightly behind the hands and the hips slightly in front of the hands. 

4) Do not pause at the top, but immediately use your speed and momentum to bounce down into another repetition. 

5) This movement is self regulating. If you are not using the swing of the hips and shoulders in coordination the movement will become awkward and out of control and you will be unable to proceed to the next repetition. 

6) Pay close attention to your hands. Several high rep sets of these can result in some spectacular blisters if you are not used to this kind of work." 

 

----

 

Just a couple of suggestions - I wouldn't only do kipping pull ups as your only pull up variation.

 

But having said that, I'm actually guessing you are not doing the kipping pull ups as Coach Sommer described above - but instead doing a pull up with a bit of kip from your hip flexors and abs. (I'd just call them non strict pull ups - but maybe I'm just being pedantic)

 

For example you listed doing 4x1 kipping pull ups on a previous workout - that simply isn't possible using Coach Sommer's technique above. The elastic element that helps in the kipping pull up is at the bottom of the motion. Doing 1 pull up means you are at the bottom, go to the top then go the bottom again and stop - so not really possible to get into the rhythm of a kip.

 

I'd only practise Coach Sommer's kipping pull ups for the co-ordination of the movement - not necessarily for the strength gains.

 

Also if you have a dislocating shoulder - for god's sake don't do the movement. It is downright dangerous.

 

Anyways, I think I'm rambling again so I will shut up.

 

----

 

Congrats again on the new job! Awesome awesome awesome :)

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CONGRATS KISHI!!!

 

 

I know you will be awesome at this job! If ever Im on your part of the land, I will surely get a session from you!

 

 

 

Yuen, that is the most elaborate discribtion of kipping pullups I have ever read. I was able to follow that whole set up. Nice.  ::taking notes for my own benefit::

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Congratulations on the job offer Kishi - That is great news! :)

 

In regards to kipping pull ups, here is some advice from Coach Sommer (of Building the Gymnastic Body)...

 

"Kipping pull-ups or, as I call them, Chinese pull-ups, are useful tool for easily increasing total amount of repetitions as well as more importantly developing elasticity in the shoulder girdle. They are also beneficial is developing a sense of rhythm and coordination. 

Someone who already understands the mechanics of the movement can start from a hang, however I have found that it is usually easiest for beginners to begin from the top of the pull-up. To get the most benefit from a kipping motion on pull-ups I would recommend the following: 

1) Begin from a static hold at the top of the pull-up. 

2) Drop as quickly as possible to the bottom of the pull-up. While the body is dropping press the shoulders (feel the arm pits STRETCH) forward and the hips backward. This will result in the body somewhat resembling a stretched out letter C with the hands on the bar, the shoulders slightly in front of the hands and the hips slightly behind the hands. 

3) Bounce strongly out of the bottom position. Use the momentum from the bounce to propel yourself back up to the bar, strongly reversing your body position on the way up. Do not attempt to stop precisely at the top of the bar, but allow the body to go as high as it wishes. Your may find that your hands are also hopping slightly off the bar at the top if your kip has been powerful. Finish with hands on the bar, shoulders slightly behind the hands and the hips slightly in front of the hands. 

4) Do not pause at the top, but immediately use your speed and momentum to bounce down into another repetition. 

5) This movement is self regulating. If you are not using the swing of the hips and shoulders in coordination the movement will become awkward and out of control and you will be unable to proceed to the next repetition. 

6) Pay close attention to your hands. Several high rep sets of these can result in some spectacular blisters if you are not used to this kind of work." 

 

----

 

Just a couple of suggestions - I wouldn't only do kipping pull ups as your only pull up variation.

 

But having said that, I'm actually guessing you are not doing the kipping pull ups as Coach Sommer described above - but instead doing a pull up with a bit of kip from your hip flexors and abs. (I'd just call them non strict pull ups - but maybe I'm just being pedantic)

 

For example you listed doing 4x1 kipping pull ups on a previous workout - that simply isn't possible using Coach Sommer's technique above. The elastic element that helps in the kipping pull up is at the bottom of the motion. Doing 1 pull up means you are at the bottom, go to the top then go the bottom again and stop - so not really possible to get into the rhythm of a kip.

 

I'd only practise Coach Sommer's kipping pull ups for the co-ordination of the movement - not necessarily for the strength gains.

 

Also if you have a dislocating shoulder - for god's sake don't do the movement. It is downright dangerous.

 

Anyways, I think I'm rambling again so I will shut up.

 

----

 

Congrats again on the new job! Awesome awesome awesome :)

 

AH. Aha. I hadn't seen that. I was basically just trying it based off of youtube videos that I'd seen. Nobody talked about doing this from the top first. So that was how I was doing it.

 

Essentially, on that day, I'm attempting to do explosive pulling motions. I do regular ol' pull ups on my max-strength training day, so when the day comes for explosive work, I attempt to work on the kip.

 

If you have something else I could do off the bar to work explosive pulling strength, then by all means. Any help you can give me, I will take.

 

CONGRATS KISHI!!!

 

 

I know you will be awesome at this job! If ever Im on your part of the land, I will surely get a session from you!

 

 

 

Yuen, that is the most elaborate discribtion of kipping pullups I have ever read. I was able to follow that whole set up. Nice.  ::taking notes for my own benefit::

 

Thanks! Also, Yuen is totally the man. You should check his thread out - tons of good information there.

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You should move to Canada and train me!

 

How are you doing the hanging knee hold?

hanging off the bar with knees up to chest as long as possible?

lvl 4 Astartes Monk STR 8.5 | STA 9.5 | CON 6.5 | DEX 7.75 | WIS 10 | CHA 7.25

"Burn the Calorie, Kill the Workout, Purge the Apathy"

Push Up Challenge: Yellow Belt (36)

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You should move to Canada and train me!

 

How are you doing the hanging knee hold?

hanging off the bar with knees up to chest as long as possible?

 

Hah! How about we compromise and I do consults on your training? That way I don't have to move, and you get to benefit directly from the things I say. :D

 

The hanging knee hold is being done as you say, knees to chest as long as possible. I'm finding, though, that the legs get heavier and heavier and heavier. I figure, as long as they don't go below waist-height, it's okay, but seeing them sink despite my best efforts is annoying.

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I hope it will be. Martial arts is all about employing strength and deploying power from odd positions. Hopefully it'll work!

 

Are we gonna see you again this challenge?

 

Only just saw the challenge started this week so I may well do. Co-incidence as I literally just clicked the link in my bookmarks as I was cleaning out some old ones. lol

 

Didn't fall off the wagon or anything since the last time you guys saw me so I could just pick right back up where I left off!

GoToTheGround"The two most powerful warriors are patience and time" - Leo TolstoyTwitter | My 130lb weight-loss journey in photos & words 

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Only just saw the challenge started this week so I may well do. Co-incidence as I literally just clicked the link in my bookmarks as I was cleaning out some old ones. lol

 

Didn't fall off the wagon or anything since the last time you guys saw me so I could just pick right back up where I left off!

 

Coincidence or synergy. Either way, it is a happiness.

 

And yeah, it'd totally be worth it to see you back in here again! The challenge is always waiting.

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AH. Aha. I hadn't seen that. I was basically just trying it based off of youtube videos that I'd seen. Nobody talked about doing this from the top first. So that was how I was doing it.

 

Essentially, on that day, I'm attempting to do explosive pulling motions. I do regular ol' pull ups on my max-strength training day, so when the day comes for explosive work, I attempt to work on the kip.

 

If you have something else I could do off the bar to work explosive pulling strength, then by all means. Any help you can give me, I will take.

 

 

Hey Kishi,

 

Just going to embed some videos so I know for sure we won't get confused.

 

This is the crossfit kipping/butterfly/chinese pull up taken to its absolute extreme

That particular technique was the one described from the copy paste from Coach Sommer.

Taking the technique that far - I would only train to gain the coordination - I don't really think that it is effective at all in gaining explosive strength from your arms/lats/scapular muscles - it just transfers too much of the motion into your core and hips.

 

Having said that I do think it is worthwhile doing a milder variation of the kip

Take a look at this muscle up tutorial from 2:30 onwards (2:55 is the straight arm variation I think you should practise)

Obviously this is for the muscle up. But you can use the technique to train high pull ups where you pull up to your abdomen or chest.

Essentially it is just using the first part of the 3rd step of Coach Sommer's summary.

I think this is a much more balanced exercise in terms of still using your elbow flexors/lats/scapular muscles as well as your hip/abs.

 

I think of it much like a martial artist's punch.

 

If you just trained your triceps and punched only with the elbow extension force of your triceps then your punch is going to be weak.

 

If you punch properly and time your elbow, shoulder, core/ab/hip rotation, and supporting leg to all line up with the correct coordination and timing, then your punch is going to be strong.

 

So too with your vertical pull motion. If you don't ever learn to coordinate your hips and abs with your elbow flexion and lats/scapular then you will never have the strongest vertical pull.

 

However the limiting factor (and weakest link) in your vertical pull is never going to be your hips and abs. It is going to be your elbow flexion/lats/scapular muscles (unless you are proportioned extremely abnormally). Thus it is important to train regular strict pull ups to focus on your weakest link.

 

I think of it in a spectrum of compound vs isolation exercises.

 

Although the NF community in general tends to dislike isolation exercises (bicep curls in the squat rack :)) - I think it is wrong to think in black and white terms - I prefer to think in shades of grey. Each possible exercise has it owns pros and cons, and understanding them you can sometimes utilise isolation exercises well. And you can also see when compound exercises are not the best way to go.

 

Compound exercises

Advantages:

  More bang for your buck - if you have limited time better to train lots of muscles.

  Teaches you to coordinate the multiple muscles used into a (hopefully) functional movement - like vertical push, vertical pull, horizontal push, horizontal pull, etc

Disadvantages:

  You are limited by your weakest muscle in the exercise. Meaning some of the muscles won't get trained as much as they could. Example - when I was training weighted chins, the limiting factor kept being my lats and long head of triceps. My elbow flexors never felt sore. I therefore added in some bicep curls which would not use my lats, but would allow me to punish my elbow flexors enough to create some gains.

 

Isolation exercises

Advantages:

  Pretty much the example I gave above in the disadvantages of Compound.

Disadvantages:

  Takes a long time to train everything.

  You might not learn coordination of muscle groups (like a martial artist's punch).

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is:

 

Isolation exercises are not the devil - they do have uses

 

Compound and isolation are relative terms anyway. Comparing Butterfly/chinese/kipping pull ups to strict pull ups the butterfly pull up is the compound exercise and the strict pull up is *relatively* more of an isolation exercise. Comparing strict pull ups to bicep curls. Pull ups are instead the compound exercise and bicep curls are isolation.

 

Compound exercises have both downsides and upsides (as mentioned above).

 

----

 

Ah shit I got off track.

 

So what I think you should do on explosive pull day is a less severe form of the kip shown by Fortress in the 2nd you tube video. Aim to get your chest to touch the bar. If you can aim to get your stomach to touch the bar.

 

I wouldn't swing as much as he does. However you could do it that much to start, and then work on decreasing the swing from there once you are happy with your coordination and timing of the movement.

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Holy hell, I missed Kishi leveling up!

 

Congrats on getting the job, Kishi!

RisenPhoenix, the Entish Aikidoka

Challenge: RisenPhoenix is an Avatar

 

"The essence of koryu [...is] you offer your loyalty to something that you choose to regard as greater than yourself so that you will, someday, be able to offer service to something that truly is transcendent." ~ Ellis Amdur, Old School

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Tough workouts. Do you make your clients do the stuff you do?

 

BTW, how ARE those programs coming along?

 

Well, I try to be careful with my clients. Presently, I deal mostly with the very old and very obese. Just my warm-ups alone would kill them, so I can't do that to them. That said, I have tried a softer version of my programs with the fitter clients. I barely touch the weights at all, and they leave exhausted. I hope they're leaving in that nice in-between place where they're tired out but not broken. It'll be interesting to see the results in the next couple of weeks.

 

I owe you guys some updates on how that stuff is coming along.

 

Hey Kishi,

 

Just going to embed some videos so I know for sure we won't get confused.

 

This is the crossfit kipping/butterfly/chinese pull up taken to its absolute extreme

That particular technique was the one described from the copy paste from Coach Sommer.

Taking the technique that far - I would only train to gain the coordination - I don't really think that it is effective at all in gaining explosive strength from your arms/lats/scapular muscles - it just transfers too much of the motion into your core and hips.

 

Having said that I do think it is worthwhile doing a milder variation of the kip

Take a look at this muscle up tutorial from 2:30 onwards (2:55 is the straight arm variation I think you should practise)

Obviously this is for the muscle up. But you can use the technique to train high pull ups where you pull up to your abdomen or chest.

Essentially it is just using the first part of the 3rd step of Coach Sommer's summary.

I think this is a much more balanced exercise in terms of still using your elbow flexors/lats/scapular muscles as well as your hip/abs.

 

I think of it much like a martial artist's punch.

 

If you just trained your triceps and punched only with the elbow extension force of your triceps then your punch is going to be weak.

 

If you punch properly and time your elbow, shoulder, core/ab/hip rotation, and supporting leg to all line up with the correct coordination and timing, then your punch is going to be strong.

 

So too with your vertical pull motion. If you don't ever learn to coordinate your hips and abs with your elbow flexion and lats/scapular then you will never have the strongest vertical pull.

 

However the limiting factor (and weakest link) in your vertical pull is never going to be your hips and abs. It is going to be your elbow flexion/lats/scapular muscles (unless you are proportioned extremely abnormally). Thus it is important to train regular strict pull ups to focus on your weakest link.

 

I think of it in a spectrum of compound vs isolation exercises.

 

Although the NF community in general tends to dislike isolation exercises (bicep curls in the squat rack :)) - I think it is wrong to think in black and white terms - I prefer to think in shades of grey. Each possible exercise has it owns pros and cons, and understanding them you can sometimes utilise isolation exercises well. And you can also see when compound exercises are not the best way to go.

 

Compound exercises

Advantages:

  More bang for your buck - if you have limited time better to train lots of muscles.

  Teaches you to coordinate the multiple muscles used into a (hopefully) functional movement - like vertical push, vertical pull, horizontal push, horizontal pull, etc

Disadvantages:

  You are limited by your weakest muscle in the exercise. Meaning some of the muscles won't get trained as much as they could. Example - when I was training weighted chins, the limiting factor kept being my lats and long head of triceps. My elbow flexors never felt sore. I therefore added in some bicep curls which would not use my lats, but would allow me to punish my elbow flexors enough to create some gains.

 

Isolation exercises

Advantages:

  Pretty much the example I gave above in the disadvantages of Compound.

Disadvantages:

  Takes a long time to train everything.

  You might not learn coordination of muscle groups (like a martial artist's punch).

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is:

 

Isolation exercises are not the devil - they do have uses

 

Compound and isolation are relative terms anyway. Comparing Butterfly/chinese/kipping pull ups to strict pull ups the butterfly pull up is the compound exercise and the strict pull up is *relatively* more of an isolation exercise. Comparing strict pull ups to bicep curls. Pull ups are instead the compound exercise and bicep curls are isolation.

 

Compound exercises have both downsides and upsides (as mentioned above).

 

----

 

Ah shit I got off track.

 

So what I think you should do on explosive pull day is a less severe form of the kip shown by Fortress in the 2nd you tube video. Aim to get your chest to touch the bar. If you can aim to get your stomach to touch the bar.

 

I wouldn't swing as much as he does. However you could do it that much to start, and then work on decreasing the swing from there once you are happy with your coordination and timing of the movement.

 

Right, thanks for giving us some common terms/movements to work with.

 

I wish I had something deep to say back, esp. after you've gone to all that trouble to explain so much of your training and working to help me. I don't think I can properly give you gratitude here in this place, given the space I have to work with here. A gif or something feels too trite for the depth of knowledge, but at the same time I don't want to be corny, spouting platitudes and the like.

 

anigif_enhanced-buzz-26298-1372346245-25

 

I can definitely see the point of isolation work to bolster the weaker parts of the chain of motion. So, let's talk pull ups to the chest, etc. Would you train those with a kipping motion at first, or would you approach it via a maximal strength approach, ie weighted pulls and the like?

 

Holy hell, I missed Kishi leveling up!

 

Congrats on getting the job, Kishi!

 

 

Thanks! So much has changed so fast. I love it.

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