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chairohkey

The Mead Hall: The Warrior Water Cooler

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22 minutes ago, Mark D said:

 

Would you elaborate on "lifters being toerags"?  

 

I wonder, would it work better if lifts were done in a power rack or some other type of mechanical device, so that a failed lift could by caught by something that's definitely strong enough to do so, already knows HOW, and is never distracted?  Fewer injuries all around, and no concern about whether the 150 lb guy is capable of catching his side of a 400 kg barbell.

 

 

 

This is actually why a lot of federations have switch to using a monolift with safety chains/straps. But it eliminates the walkout which the ipf wants to keep as a part of the movement. As for why not a power rack, maybe to try and protect the equipment? Really I just don't know.

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7 minutes ago, Juni0r83 said:

 

This is actually why a lot of federations have switch to using a monolift with safety chains/straps. But it eliminates the walkout which the ipf wants to keep as a part of the movement. As for why not a power rack, maybe to try and protect the equipment? Really I just don't know.

 

A few of the people in that video are DAMN lucky they didn't get seriously hurt, so protecting equipment seems a silly thing to be concerned about.  I assume that anyone who signs up to lift or spot signs a waiver in case of injury, I'm not sure how that would stand up if someone was hurt because the organizers failed to provide capable spotters, or if a spotter was hurt because he was called on to spot a weight that's obviously more than he can handle.  There are injuries that happen because stuff happens, and there are injuries that happen because someone just didn't do what needed to be done.

 

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20 hours ago, Mark D said:

 

Would you elaborate on "lifters being toerags"?  

 

Mainly dumping the bar on a failed squat vs staying with it and reracking with assistance. Smashed feet happen.

 

16 hours ago, miss_marissa said:

I think the reason for not using a power rack/cage is because they are cumbersome and heavy to set up on a platform. Easier to just use the simple squat rack without safeties

 

I also don't think it's as good for the show. They get in the way of viewing. Lifitng the weight looks more impressive when it's just the lifter, nothing else around him.

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On 12/07/2016 at 5:11 PM, Mark D said:

 

Would you elaborate on "lifters being toerags"?  

 

I wonder, would it work better if lifts were done in a power rack or some other type of mechanical device, so that a failed lift could by caught by something that's definitely strong enough to do so, already knows HOW, and is never distracted?  Fewer injuries all around, and no concern about whether the 150 lb guy is capable of catching his side of a 400 kg barbell.

 

 

Lifters ditching the bar on the spotters and causing injuries.

 

There are issues with power racks (need to be screwed down and ruin the bar if you drop it) and monolifts (idiots over-estimating what they can lift and destroying themselves). It's all swings and roundabouts and well-trained spotters are currently the best option.

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19 hours ago, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

 

Mainly dumping the bar on a failed squat vs staying with it and reracking with assistance. Smashed feet happen.

 

 

I also don't think it's as good for the show. They get in the way of viewing. Lifitng the weight looks more impressive when it's just the lifter, nothing else around him.

 

And broken arms. :( 

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5 hours ago, SpecialSundae said:

Lifters ditching the bar on the spotters and causing injuries.

 

There are issues with power racks (need to be screwed down and ruin the bar if you drop it) and monolifts (idiots over-estimating what they can lift and destroying themselves). It's all swings and roundabouts and well-trained spotters are currently the best option.

 

I'm actually thinking power rack/safety in conjunction with spotters, so the rack only comes into play if the spotters lose the barbell and it prevents someone from getting hurt or killed.  I'm thinking specifically about the guy in the video who got bend over backward and wound up on the floor, where the announcers even thought he'd been hurt.  Better a bent bar than someone getting seriously hurt, no?

 

I don't know if that makes sense.

 

I was also under the impression that if the safeties on the rack are set properly (as-in, just below where the bar ends up at the bottom of the squat) the bar shouldn't be damaged if you have to dump it, but maybe that only applies for weights that mere mortals can lift?

 

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1 minute ago, Mark D said:

 

I'm actually thinking power rack/safety in conjunction with spotters, so the rack only comes into play if the spotters lose the barbell and it prevents someone from getting hurt or killed.  I'm thinking specifically about the guy in the video who got bend over backward and wound up on the floor, where the announcers even thought he'd been hurt.  Better a bent bar than someone getting seriously hurt, no?

 

I don't know if that makes sense.

 

I was also under the impression that if the safeties on the rack are set properly (as-in, just below where the bar ends up at the bottom of the squat) the bar shouldn't be damaged if you have to dump it, but maybe that only applies for weights that mere mortals can lift?

 

 

The bars cost over £1000 and if someone screws one up mid-comp and you don't have a spare (few local comps would) then you're screwed.

 

And you can lose the bar at any point so assuming that they're only going to dump it at the bottom of a squat is a little naïve.

 

To add to that, if the safeties are set even slightly wrong, or you go slightly deeper than you usually would, hitting off the safeties would mean that you'd lose balance and fail the squat.

 

So no, I don't think a power rack is the best option.

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I'm petty sure someone in IPF would have considered the available options and picked the one that strikes the best balance between all things that need to be considered. Not to say we shouldn't be thinking about ways to improve safety, but I feel we would need to venture a little out of the box. At the end of the day, it's a sport that relies heavily on volunteers, so the best thing any one of us can do to contribute is to become a better spotter and volunteer at comps.

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28 minutes ago, SpecialSundae said:

 

The bars cost over £1000 and if someone screws one up mid-comp and you don't have a spare (few local comps would) then you're screwed.

 

And you can lose the bar at any point so assuming that they're only going to dump it at the bottom of a squat is a little naïve.

 

To add to that, if the safeties are set even slightly wrong, or you go slightly deeper than you usually would, hitting off the safeties would mean that you'd lose balance and fail the squat.

 

So no, I don't think a power rack is the best option.

 

Obviously you know more about it than I do.  I'm just "thinking out loud", people (lifters OR spotters) getting hurt at a competition hurts the sport.

 

Given what you've taught me here, it seems spotters are the way to go, but someone (the organizer, I presume) needs to make sure the spotters are properly trained and can handle the weight their spotting.  Plus the lifters themselves need to not be "toerags" too, which would probably go a long way to getting people to volunteer to spot.

 

Powerlifting seems to be an extremely safe sport for the most part, but when things go pear-shaped they do so in a hurry, and people CAN get hurt.  I tend to be safety conscious (comes from a long time spent at various shooting sports), so I'm always looking to mitigate risk.

 

Hmmm, the engineer in me is looking for a solution....

 

I'm assuming the problem of damaging the bar is because it's dropped onto something that has no "give" (the safeties on the rack) and because the distance it's dropped is variable.  The problem with spotters is that they may not be strong enough to handle their end of the barbell, and there's only so many spotters you can GET on the end of a barbell so putting more people on it is problematic.  (I'm ignoring the issue of poor spotter training, there's no engineering solution to that. I'm only addressing the issue of getting enough muscle under the end of the bar to make for a safe lift, without damaging the equipment.)

 

OK, picture a power rack, but instead of the steel safeties you have a nylon strap (like a tow-strap for towing a car).  One end is anchored up high, it's looped under the end of the bar, back up to the other end of the rack, and down to a human spotter thru a pulley who can raise and lower the loop as needed.  If the bar is dumped the nylon strap (you could maybe even use climbing rope) and spotter provide some "give" to keep from damaging the bar, if the weight is heavy you can have multiple spotters on the strap, or a pulley system to amplify the spotters strength.

 

I'll await my royalty check....

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mark D said:

 

Obviously you know more about it than I do.  I'm just "thinking out loud", people (lifters OR spotters) getting hurt at a competition hurts the sport.

 

Given what you've taught me here, it seems spotters are the way to go, but someone (the organizer, I presume) needs to make sure the spotters are properly trained and can handle the weight their spotting.  Plus the lifters themselves need to not be "toerags" too, which would probably go a long way to getting people to volunteer to spot.

 

Powerlifting seems to be an extremely safe sport for the most part, but when things go pear-shaped they do so in a hurry, and people CAN get hurt.  I tend to be safety conscious (comes from a long time spent at various shooting sports), so I'm always looking to mitigate risk.

 

Hmmm, the engineer in me is looking for a solution....

 

I'm assuming the problem of damaging the bar is because it's dropped onto something that has no "give" (the safeties on the rack) and because the distance it's dropped is variable.  The problem with spotters is that they may not be strong enough to handle their end of the barbell, and there's only so many spotters you can GET on the end of a barbell so putting more people on it is problematic.  (I'm ignoring the issue of poor spotter training, there's no engineering solution to that. I'm only addressing the issue of getting enough muscle under the end of the bar to make for a safe lift, without damaging the equipment.)

 

OK, picture a power rack, but instead of the steel safeties you have a nylon strap (like a tow-strap for towing a car).  One end is anchored up high, it's looped under the end of the bar, back up to the other end of the rack, and down to a human spotter thru a pulley who can raise and lower the loop as needed.  If the bar is dumped the nylon strap (you could maybe even use climbing rope) and spotter provide some "give" to keep from damaging the bar, if the weight is heavy you can have multiple spotters on the strap, or a pulley system to amplify the spotters strength.

 

I'll await my royalty check....

 

 

 

That idea has been suggested. Unfortunately it completely ignores the possibility of the weight swinging down and breaking the lifters' legs.

 

Even with 500kg, the amount of weight that each spotter should be taking is manageable as long as they know what they're doing and are strong enough for the weight class they're spotting. The problem here was that they were clueless kids. Really, a spotter should only be taking a fraction of the weight unless the lifter is injured. The lifter needs to come back up with the bar.

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7 minutes ago, SpecialSundae said:

 

That idea has been suggested. Unfortunately it completely ignores the possibility of the weight swinging down and breaking the lifters' legs.

 

Even with 500kg, the amount of weight that each spotter should be taking is manageable as long as they know what they're doing and are strong enough for the weight class they're spotting. The problem here was that they were clueless kids. Really, a spotter should only be taking a fraction of the weight unless the lifter is injured. The lifter needs to come back up with the bar.

 

So we're back to "toerags".

 

Thanks for the education.  I've no plans on ever competing myself, lifting for me is merely a means to an end (being strong and healthy).  This has been a good learning experience for me though.

 

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42 minutes ago, Mark D said:

 

Obviously you know more about it than I do.  I'm just "thinking out loud", people (lifters OR spotters) getting hurt at a competition hurts the sport.

 

Given what you've taught me here, it seems spotters are the way to go, but someone (the organizer, I presume) needs to make sure the spotters are properly trained and can handle the weight their spotting.  Plus the lifters themselves need to not be "toerags" too, which would probably go a long way to getting people to volunteer to spot.

 

Powerlifting seems to be an extremely safe sport for the most part, but when things go pear-shaped they do so in a hurry, and people CAN get hurt.  I tend to be safety conscious (comes from a long time spent at various shooting sports), so I'm always looking to mitigate risk.

 

Hmmm, the engineer in me is looking for a solution....

 

I'm assuming the problem of damaging the bar is because it's dropped onto something that has no "give" (the safeties on the rack) and because the distance it's dropped is variable.  The problem with spotters is that they may not be strong enough to handle their end of the barbell, and there's only so many spotters you can GET on the end of a barbell so putting more people on it is problematic.  (I'm ignoring the issue of poor spotter training, there's no engineering solution to that. I'm only addressing the issue of getting enough muscle under the end of the bar to make for a safe lift, without damaging the equipment.)

 

OK, picture a power rack, but instead of the steel safeties you have a nylon strap (like a tow-strap for towing a car).  One end is anchored up high, it's looped under the end of the bar, back up to the other end of the rack, and down to a human spotter thru a pulley who can raise and lower the loop as needed.  If the bar is dumped the nylon strap (you could maybe even use climbing rope) and spotter provide some "give" to keep from damaging the bar, if the weight is heavy you can have multiple spotters on the strap, or a pulley system to amplify the spotters strength.

 

I'll await my royalty check....

 

 

That is typical for monolifts. Which is what a lot of federations use, just not IPF

 

monolift_zps21f0090c.jpg

 

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:32 AM, Taddea Zhaan said:

Does anybody have the Pendlay Do-Win lifting shoes? Did you size up or size down? How did you feel about the width? I have very wide feet and I have heard these are the best lifting option for people with wide feet.

 

These will pretty much be just for squat days. I have crosslift tr lifting shoes for deadlifts and the like. I want to save up to buy squat shoes for my birthday in a few months. 

 

I have another type of Do-Win shoes (these) and love them. They were hand-me-downs from another lifter who fortuitously has the same shoe size, so I can't comment on how they feel compared to other lifting shoes or the same shoe at a different size, though. They're a US men's 8, which is my usual shoe size (the equivalent of a women's 10) for everything except running shoes, which I size up to an 11.

 

One other caveat -- it also sounds like you have wider feet than me.  I have relatively wide feet, but not so wide that I need to wear a wide size.

 

 

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I see Hafthor Bjornsson is training in Bangkok Thailand with an Aussie strength coach (facebook name: Aussiestrengthcoach). I also read that Worlds Strongest Man is going to be in Botswana? Two very strange places i would have thought to train and compete in Strongman.

Commentary?

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Do we have anyone here that specializes in strongman training?  I just joined a new gym that has a bunch of strongman equipment that I'd like advice in how I can implement it into my training.  Once I have some money saved up I'm going to travel to a gym thats about 40 minutes away to get some instruction on training so I can eventually compete.

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7 minutes ago, Pat G said:

I see Hafthor Bjornsson is training in Bangkok Thailand with an Aussie strength coach (facebook name: Aussiestrengthcoach). I also read that Worlds Strongest Man is going to be in Botswana? Two very strange places i would have thought to train and compete in Strongman.

Commentary?

 

There's a big fitness community in Bangkok with a lot of money. A gym I visited there is usually 2000 Baht per session (I got a free pass), so he may well be doing private events there to make a bit of dosh.

 

Botswana is more of an oddity but it'll probably simply be that the country bid to host it and won. No?

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2 minutes ago, Björn Járnhamar said:

Do we have anyone here that specializes in strongman training?  I just joined a new gym that has a bunch of strongman equipment that I'd like advice in how I can implement it into my training.  Once I have some money saved up I'm going to travel to a gym thats about 40 minutes away to get some instruction on training so I can eventually compete.

 

There are quite a few warriors around who do strongman. Might be worth getting in-person instruction from someone who uses the kit that they have, though, if you can.

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1 minute ago, SpecialSundae said:

 

There are quite a few warriors around who do strongman. Might be worth getting in-person instruction from someone who uses the kit that they have, though, if you can.

I intend to before I actually pick up any of the kit, just looking for ideas on how I can work it into my training once I get proper instruction whether from folks at the gym that compete or official instruction from the strongman gym trainer.

The gym I'm starting is a no frills gym aimed at people prepping for strongman, powerlifting, and weightlifting cometitions so there is none of the usual personal training you see at a lot of gyms.  People there get training elsewhere and then come there to work.

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4 minutes ago, Björn Járnhamar said:

I intend to before I actually pick up any of the kit, just looking for ideas on how I can work it into my training once I get proper instruction whether from folks at the gym that compete or official instruction from the strongman gym trainer.

The gym I'm starting is a no frills gym aimed at people prepping for strongman, powerlifting, and weightlifting cometitions so there is none of the usual personal training you see at a lot of gyms.  People there get training elsewhere and then come there to work.

 

If you got talking to the people training for strongman, you might find that they're more than happy to give you a little bit of help. I've found that Strongman/woman competitors are always excited to induct someone new into the fold.

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Just now, SpecialSundae said:

 

If you got talking to the people training for strongman, you might find that they're more than happy to give you a little bit of help. I've found that Strongman/woman competitors are always excited to induct someone new into the fold.

As soon as I find out who those people are, I plan on it.  Today is going to be my first day there so I'm not sure if I'll run into too many people during my normal lifting hours since I work overnights and go after work which is when most "normal" people are at work

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1 hour ago, SpecialSundae said:

 

There's a big fitness community in Bangkok with a lot of money. A gym I visited there is usually 2000 Baht per session (I got a free pass), so he may well be doing private events there to make a bit of dosh.

 

Botswana is more of an oddity but it'll probably simply be that the country bid to host it and won. No?

i didn't check the mountain's calendar to see for classes. And i don't  know enough about WSM re: bidding for it. Im guessing training  there getting used to the heat? There are reasons aussie bodybuilders go there,  but we shant talk about that now. 

 

 

  I can't say i ever looked at gyms other than hotel ones any time i've been there, none of my family there lift.  2000 baht is approx $100AU. Not cheap huh, all geared towards expats?    There's one Box in Penom Penh over the border and they wanted US $250 per month? Cheap by comparison. 

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1 hour ago, Pat G said:

i didn't check the mountain's calendar to see for classes. And i don't  know enough about WSM re: bidding for it. Im guessing training  there getting used to the heat? There are reasons aussie bodybuilders go there,  but we shant talk about that now. 

 

 

  I can't say i ever looked at gyms other than hotel ones any time i've been there, none of my family there lift.  2000 baht is approx $100AU. Not cheap huh, all geared towards expats?    There's one Box in Penom Penh over the border and they wanted US $250 per month? Cheap by comparison. 

 

They might not be public classes, and there are as many steroids in strongman as in bodybuilding... possibly more. It's about the only way to survive their training.

 

Expats and wealthy Thais. Kinda like the Paragon centre. Bearing in mind that was per session, I think per month was upwards of £150. 

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