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chairohkey

The Training Yard: Where We Get Our Learn On

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Warrior friends!

 

Stopping over from Adventurers land to ask for your help!  I am pretty much brand new to lifting, and I would love some pointers.  I don't even own my own weight set yet, I am a clean slate, please be my Yodas! 

 

Do you have any favorite articles/sites/workouts for beginners? 

 

Is it worth it to find a personal trainer to help you starting out, or can you learn the basics on your own and then advance using a gym/trainer?

 

Is there a good way to gauge where you are, strength wise, before diving in?

 

Ermm.... that's it for now I think!  I would appreciate any advice. :)

 

I found a trainer very useful in getting form sorted. I looked at a lot of stuff on youtube beforehand and had tried the moves already but he still found problems and improvements i could make.

I had 4x 30min sessions and we managed to cover deadlifts, squats, overhead press, barbell row, bench press, dips, chin-ups and some stretches in that time.

 

I've enjoyed stronglifts as a program. No need to gauge where you are with it, start with empty bar and progress as it dictates.

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Keep squatting, struggling and deloading and reloading. I think it took a couple years for my posterior chain to really wake up. Progrssion is not a straight line. More of a sawtooth pattern

 

This, and do glute activation exercises before you squat.  You still might not be all "omg da glutes!" but it should help some. As for what to do: google it and a plethora of articles will come up.  Pick some and have at it.  I'm a fan of bird dog, clams, bridge and hip thrust using a big ass rogue band for tension.  Smart trainer friend likes KB RDLs.

 

Warrior friends!

 

Stopping over from Adventurers land to ask for your help!  I am pretty much brand new to lifting, and I would love some pointers.  I don't even own my own weight set yet, I am a clean slate, please be my Yodas! 

 

Do you have any favorite articles/sites/workouts for beginners? 

 

Is it worth it to find a personal trainer to help you starting out, or can you learn the basics on your own and then advance using a gym/trainer?

 

Is there a good way to gauge where you are, strength wise, before diving in?

 

Ermm.... that's it for now I think!  I would appreciate any advice. :)

 

Trainers can be really hit or miss (see previous post about trainer saying person's form was acceptable when she wasn't hitting depth. ugh) so until you know how to figure out if your trainer is good or not, I'd wait.

 

The basic strength training stuff: Mark Rippetoe (starting strength), and strong lifts (mendhi?) - easy to follow beginner programs.  Google things like "deadlift form rippetoe" and you'll find good stuff (though just buying starting strength is a good idea).  Check the resources and blog on here, too.  I know they've posted more form how to's.

 

If you're interested in olympic lifting, I think Jdanger posted some good stuff re knowledge in the lifting knowledge forum area? 

 

Anything barbell related - start with the bar as weight. Even if it's "too light".  Work form and progress as programs say.  If the bar is too heavy, which is totally okay and likely on upper body stuff for women especially, grab some dumbbells and go from there.

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Ok so I have a question for you guys:

My squats are now better than they were when I posted my form check a few months ago, ( will post another soon ), however my current weight of 57.5 kilo proves to be tough, the first couple of reps per set are good the subsequent ones are a little gross.

Do I deload or do I remain at the current weight until every rep is good then move on up again?

Cheers

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Ok so I have a question for you guys:

My squats are now better than they were when I posted my form check a few months ago, ( will post another soon ), however my current weight of 57.5 kilo proves to be tough, the first couple of reps per set are good the subsequent ones are a little gross.

Do I deload or do I remain at the current weight until every rep is good then move on up again?

Cheers

i think i would deload or i'd do a set or two of triplets if you can do three with good form. then do three, break, three, break, three. something like that anyway

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Ok so I have a question for you guys:

My squats are now better than they were when I posted my form check a few months ago, ( will post another soon ), however my current weight of 57.5 kilo proves to be tough, the first couple of reps per set are good the subsequent ones are a little gross.

Do I deload or do I remain at the current weight until every rep is good then move on up again?

Cheers

 

If form is breaking down to the point where you are concerned, I would deload and work back up.  Better to get form absolutely locked in then to risk injury.

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A couple of questions for you from a beginner lifter:

 

Stats to put things in perspective: 21 y.o. female, ~79 kg, 5'6''. I've been lifting since April, but reset my weights this fall after running into mobility issues and having several inconsistent weeks of training. I'm now 9 weeks into Starting Strength; latest working weights were

  • squat (high bar): 68 kg
  • bench press: 46 kg
  • OHP: 32 kg
  • deadlift: 83 kg
  • (I'm also doing power cleans, but it's taking me a while to get the form down)

I'm starting to miss reps (mostly on the upper body lifts, occasionally on squats), but haven't had to deload yet, so I don't have plans to switch programs anytime soon.

 

So, my questions...

 

1) In Starting Strength, Rippetoe says that for women, "after about 6-8 weeks [of training using 3x5], experience has shown that the novice progression lasts longer if the reps switch from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of 3 after the first sign of a slowdown... This typically adds 3-4 months to the length of time the novice progression can work for a female." His justification is that although the same training principles apply to men and women, most "women do not have the same level of neuromuscular efficiency as men," so the heavier triple will be closer to the adaptive stimulus that men receive from doing 5 reps. Thoughts? Does anyone have experience (either personally or as a coach) with females using triples during a linear progression?

 

2) When is it appropriate to start using a weightlifting belt, and what's its place in training? My perception was that I wouldn't even need to consider using one until I was an advanced lifter, but a few girls in my lifting club that are about the same level as me (probably a few weeks ahead of me in the lower body lifts) have started using them for their working weights for squats and deadlifts. However, they're prepping for a competition and are pushing their working weights faster and testing their 1 RMs. I'm not about to start using a belt just because it's what everyone else is doing, but I do want to train safely. My instinct is that I won't need one for daily training (at least for a long while) if I continue progressing slowly and steadily, am a stickler for good form, and work on my core strength, but that wearing one would be useful from both a safety and performance perspective when I test my maxes and perhaps compete (both probably at least 3-4 months down the road). So: my mom wants to know what I want for Christmas and my birthday. Is a belt a good investment, or is it something I don't have to worry about for a while yet?

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I have zero input on Question #1.  Sorry. 
 
For question 2, answers are going to be all over the map.  I tend to lie somewhere in the middle.  T-Nation did a solid post about it with input from a bunch of different folks.  My take is pretty much exactly like Tim Henrique's:
 

Over-reliance on lifting belts might also weaken the core musculature. Think of a belt like a crutch – use it too much and the muscles don't respond because the belt is there.
 
That being said, folks like Louie Simmons advocate pushing your abs against the belt, in which case belt work might actually make your core stronger because you have some resistance – the belt – to push against.
 
But if you're an athlete and you don't wear a belt in your sport, then I would wear a belt sparingly.
 
So my answer to the belt question is this: First, don't wear it on stuff that doesn't involve the lower back much, and definitely don't be one of those dudes that puts the belt on in the locker room and doesn't take it off until he's changing out of his workout clothes.
 
Second, save the belt for the big sets, whatever that means to you. For warm-up sets and light work sets it's generally unnecessary to wear one, but for the big stuff put it on.
 
Finally, you need to learn how to use the belt. I like to do a core bracing exercise in which I put the belt on, get into lifting position, and then brace my core really hard.


70's big also had some solid articles about belts and their usages, but I'm not able to load their page right. I'll try later and add links if I can find them.

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Ok so I have a question for you guys:

My squats are now better than they were when I posted my form check a few months ago, ( will post another soon ), however my current weight of 57.5 kilo proves to be tough, the first couple of reps per set are good the subsequent ones are a little gross.

Do I deload or do I remain at the current weight until every rep is good then move on up again?

Cheers

 

I find deloading can help dirll form and give your body an extra recovery break. Deload 3 workouts worth of increases and work back up, focusing on maximal force into the abr at all times and maintaining perfect form, and see if it helps you bust through your current spot.

 

A couple of questions for you from a beginner lifter:

 

Stats to put things in perspective: 21 y.o. female, ~79 kg, 5'6''. I've been lifting since April, but reset my weights this fall after running into mobility issues and having several inconsistent weeks of training. I'm now 9 weeks into Starting Strength; latest working weights were

  • squat (high bar): 68 kg
  • bench press: 46 kg
  • OHP: 32 kg
  • deadlift: 83 kg
  • (I'm also doing power cleans, but it's taking me a while to get the form down)

I'm starting to miss reps (mostly on the upper body lifts, occasionally on squats), but haven't had to deload yet, so I don't have plans to switch programs anytime soon.

 

So, my questions...

 

1) In Starting Strength, Rippetoe says that for women, "after about 6-8 weeks [of training using 3x5], experience has shown that the novice progression lasts longer if the reps switch from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of 3 after the first sign of a slowdown... This typically adds 3-4 months to the length of time the novice progression can work for a female." His justification is that although the same training principles apply to men and women, most "women do not have the same level of neuromuscular efficiency as men," so the heavier triple will be closer to the adaptive stimulus that men receive from doing 5 reps. Thoughts? Does anyone have experience (either personally or as a coach) with females using triples during a linear progression?

 

2) When is it appropriate to start using a weightlifting belt, and what's its place in training? My perception was that I wouldn't even need to consider using one until I was an advanced lifter, but a few girls in my lifting club that are about the same level as me (probably a few weeks ahead of me in the lower body lifts) have started using them for their working weights for squats and deadlifts. However, they're prepping for a competition and are pushing their working weights faster and testing their 1 RMs. I'm not about to start using a belt just because it's what everyone else is doing, but I do want to train safely. My instinct is that I won't need one for daily training (at least for a long while) if I continue progressing slowly and steadily, am a stickler for good form, and work on my core strength, but that wearing one would be useful from both a safety and performance perspective when I test my maxes and perhaps compete (both probably at least 3-4 months down the road). So: my mom wants to know what I want for Christmas and my birthday. Is a belt a good investment, or is it something I don't have to worry about for a while yet?

 

1) I have heard this and I'm actually a fan of it for myself as well. It's the same total volume, and will let you handle more weight since there's fewer reps per set. I personally can't do it constantly because it is closer to my true 1RM than it would be for a woman due the the neuromuscular efficiency stuff, so it's a heavier recovery toll. I say give it a try and if you find you like it, stay with it. It does add 5-10 minutes to the workout though since you're adding in more sets.

 

2) Everyone benefits from them. They allow you to lift more weight by giving your core somehting to brace against and be more sturdy. I wear one every time I go above 70-75% of my 1RM on both DL and squats. sometimes even lower.

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1) I have heard this and I'm actually a fan of it for myself as well. It's the same total volume, and will let you handle more weight since there's fewer reps per set. I personally can't do it constantly because it is closer to my true 1RM than it would be for a woman due the the neuromuscular efficiency stuff, so it's a heavier recovery toll. I say give it a try and if you find you like it, stay with it. It does add 5-10 minutes to the workout though since you're adding in more sets.

 

Thanks! I'll try transitioning my lifts over to triples as I stall on them--OHP will be my first guinea pig. I've been working in with people with 5+ working sets, so I won't suffer too much time-wise--often I finish my sets first or do some back-off sets while I'm waiting for the others to finish. With the space constraints at my current gym, I've given up on short workouts...

 

 For question 2, answers are going to be all over the map.  I tend to lie somewhere in the middle.  T-Nation did a solid post about it with input from a bunch of different folks.  My take is pretty much exactly like Tim Henrique's:

 

70's big also had some solid articles about belts and their usages, but I'm not able to load their page right. I'll try later and add links if I can find them.

 

 

2) Everyone benefits from them. They allow you to lift more weight by giving your core somehting to brace against and be more sturdy. I wear one every time I go above 70-75% of my 1RM on both DL and squats. sometimes even lower.

 

Thanks for the input on belts--I wanted to make sure that I didn't get a one-sided view from my lifting club (9th rule of the rebellion: "we question everything"). I appreciate the articles, too (and I think I found the 70's Big belt series). Looks like I would get plenty of use out of one before next Christmas, especially if I transition over to heavier triples. Sometime in the next couple of weeks I'll ask one of the experienced lifters for a primer on using them and try wearing one for squats and deadlifts.

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Questions questions, hey guys, I have recently started lifitng again, but it;s been hard to maintain a steady routine because even though I'd been motivated to lift, I've had to talk myself out of it because I have been so freaking ill and over last few years I've had a bunch of other injuries.

 

I find I can always lift more each workout out, but my recovery time is really long. I had managed to get it back down to 2/3 days of rest but then I after I took some time off because of illness. I felt great and back busted out a great workout, but then it took me pretty much a week to recover.

 

I always feel like I should be lifting more if I can, however is is better for me to de-load and go more regularly now that I am starting to feel better?

 

Would be great to hear your thoughts! Thanks x

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I mean that I have DOMS for days, I try to stretch out, eat all the food, drink all the water and everything, but seems to still last forever, only gotten worse now I sit down most of the day at my job! :)

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Yeah.  I think the overall consensus that I've seen is that at the beginning you just have to push through the DOMS a bit. If you are going into the gym and feel like you can't even move, I'd recommend just doing a ton of extra warm-up work.  For example, I usually do 4 or 5 warm up sets on my big exercises.  If I'm feeling especially sore, I'll double that and maybe do 10 warm-up sets, just to make sure my muscles are getting ready for the heavy stuff.  Normally (for me at least), once I get into my 4th or 5th warm-up set, things start feeling better.  And as you workout more consistently, DOMS just doesn't really happen (unless you go crazy hard on the volume or something). 

 

Hope that helps.

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This may be a stupid question, i have no idea, i'm gonna ask it anyway :)

 

When doing squats (or any big compound movement) and you get to the grindy rep just before failure do other people know which particular muscle is failing/about to fail?

When i get there i don't feel it in any muscle really, and i don't get sore in any either. For me its just like "yep, out of power".

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I mean that I have DOMS for days, I try to stretch out, eat all the food, drink all the water and everything, but seems to still last forever, only gotten worse now I sit down most of the day at my job! :)

 

Getting DOMs every time, if you are eating enough and getting enough sleep, is because you're not working out often enough, and your msucles aren't adapted to lofting being a normal, semi-every day thing. Lift more often. Push through those DOMs by warming up more for a few weeks and they won't happen nearly as badly, and go away for the most part until you add in a new movement.

 

This may be a stupid question, i have no idea, i'm gonna ask it anyway :)

 

When doing squats (or any big compound movement) and you get to the grindy rep just before failure do other people know which particular muscle is failing/about to fail?

When i get there i don't feel it in any muscle really, and i don't get sore in any either. For me its just like "yep, out of power".

 

Depends. If it's form breaking down, I can tell which msucle is fatigued. If it's just that I'm fatigued and out of gas, not so much. You shouldn't be pushing to failure during training anyway. If you don't absolutely know you can get that rep before you do it, you shouldn't be doing it. It's the proverbial "leaving a rep in the tank" that you should be doing for msot of your training.

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Getting DOMs every time, if you are eating enough and getting enough sleep, is because you're not working out often enough, and your msucles aren't adapted to lofting being a normal, semi-every day thing. Lift more often. Push through those DOMs by warming up more for a few weeks and they won't happen nearly as badly, and go away for the most part until you add in a new movement.

 

 

Depends. If it's form breaking down, I can tell which msucle is fatigued. If it's just that I'm fatigued and out of gas, not so much. You shouldn't be pushing to failure during training anyway. If you don't absolutely know you can get that rep before you do it, you shouldn't be doing it. It's the proverbial "leaving a rep in the tank" that you should be doing for msot of your training.

 

Yeah, i leave one in the tank. If its grindy i leave it at that. I've not failed to come up from one yet, touch wood. It could be form, my knee tends to want to cave inwards but i'm keeping it out so far. Maybe i'm just getting out of gas as i'm borderline maintenance/cut with calories.

 

Thanks

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So I solved my butt wink issue for myself (my wife is still working on it, but we discovered the main reason is our IT band is extremely tight). Anyway, I solved it by switching to low bar squats (for the first time) and I was able to squat to IPF legal depth for the first time without suffering from butt wink. Only thing is that my wrists end up on a rather sever angle to hold onto the bar, and it causes rather sever discomfort. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just something I'm going to have to learn to deal with? Or perhaps this is the reason people use wrist wraps while squatting? I never really understood that before now.

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So I solved my butt wink issue for myself (my wife is still working on it, but we discovered the main reason is our IT band is extremely tight). Anyway, I solved it by switching to low bar squats (for the first time) and I was able to squat to IPF legal depth for the first time without suffering from butt wink. Only thing is that my wrists end up on a rather sever angle to hold onto the bar, and it causes rather sever discomfort. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just something I'm going to have to learn to deal with? Or perhaps this is the reason people use wrist wraps while squatting? I never really understood that before now.

 

Shoulder mobility? I can't even get the bar into a low bar squat position. I'm doing a lot of shoulder dislocates mobility exercises in order to improve this. I'm sure the seasoned pros here have some more advice though :)

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So I solved my butt wink issue for myself (my wife is still working on it, but we discovered the main reason is our IT band is extremely tight). Anyway, I solved it by switching to low bar squats (for the first time) and I was able to squat to IPF legal depth for the first time without suffering from butt wink. Only thing is that my wrists end up on a rather sever angle to hold onto the bar, and it causes rather sever discomfort. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just something I'm going to have to learn to deal with? Or perhaps this is the reason people use wrist wraps while squatting? I never really understood that before now.

 

Shoulder mobility will help.  Are your thumbs wrapped around the bar like this: 

highbar.jpg

(Hi Spez!)

 

If so, try thumbless like below.  I find it's really uncomfortable when I wrap my thumbs around so I do like that guy down there.

 

squat-thumbless-grip.jpg

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Shoulder mobility will help. Are your thumbs wrapped around the bar like this:

highbar.jpg

(Hi Spez!)

If so, try thumbless like below. I find it's really uncomfortable when I wrap my thumbs around so I do like that guy down there.

squat-thumbless-grip.jpg

Thanks, I'll work on my shoulder mobility, and until it improves, I'll give the thumbless thing a go.

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So I solved my butt wink issue for myself (my wife is still working on it, but we discovered the main reason is our IT band is extremely tight). Anyway, I solved it by switching to low bar squats (for the first time) and I was able to squat to IPF legal depth for the first time without suffering from butt wink. Only thing is that my wrists end up on a rather sever angle to hold onto the bar, and it causes rather sever discomfort. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just something I'm going to have to learn to deal with? Or perhaps this is the reason people use wrist wraps while squatting? I never really understood that before now.

 

Widen your grip a little. The bar is lower on your back, so it's closer to your elbows. Unfortuneately, your forearm length doesn't change with it, so in order to get you hands in the correct position, the grip needs to be wider.

 

When I mid-bar, my forefingers are right on/right outside the rings on the bar, and I have to go with a thumbless grip. Much of the time I don't even grip the bar, just push against it open handed with my palms to keep it nice and stable. When I high bar, my grip is all the way in on the inside edge of the knurling (like where Staci's are in the above picture), with a full grip on the bar, because I have the extra room to do it since the bar is further up.

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Ok, i'm back with the next in my series of probably stupid questions. Remember people, i look stupid so you don't have to....

 

 

So, high intensity. I've seen this a lot in the last week, especially regarding lifting on a cut. But how do you classify "high intensity"? I'll use my recent workouts as an example as i've been experimenting a bit. Which of the following snippets are "high intensity"?

 

* Successfully achieving 3x5 reps, but it was "challenging" (eg, ooh, not sure i'll get the next weight)

* Muscles shaking (technical term?) during reps (always 5 or under per set)

* Failing to get 3x5 reps

* 15 total reps over 3 rest-pause sets (5 breath pause), ending in concentric failure and followed by a 10second static hold

* Singles using 4 rest-pause sets (5 breath pause), ending in concentric failure on the 5th, followed by a static hold which resulted in eccentric failure.

* Singles using 5 rest-pause sets (5 breath pause), no actual failure but it was "bloody hard" and i felt a bit dizzy halfway through (although recovered before the end)

 

Do all exercises in the workout have to be high intensity?

If those examples are all high intensity what is not high intensity? Volume sets like 8-12 reps?

 

Thanks, see you soon for more probably ;)

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Hi Warriors, I have posted it elsewhere, but in retrospect here is probably the best place for my question


 


I appreciate the potential difficulty of providing an answer, but there is that much conflicting information out there it's hard to know who to believe


 


My ultimate aim is athleticism, the closest example I could give would be a mortal every day version of Gronkowski - I would like to be strong, but also able to generate power and some speed - hopefully that is a sufficient example, if not I will try to pin it down further


 


And I'm not sure what kind of strength program to pursue, I've seen 5x5, Rippetoes Starting Strength, 5/3/1 by Jim Wendler etc, if anyone has any experience then advice would be priceless


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