Rooks - Tracking the Daily Grind...

[Sam Ashen]

23 minutes ago, RedStone said:

full understanding of kinesiology, anatomy and physics

 

At first I read astronomy!

[Shello]

6 hours ago, Rooks said:

In bigger terms (and to a larger extent, my ability to accomplish ANYTHING), I'm realizing how terrible I am at staying focused on things. Just for an example, just writing this post, I've written about 2 sentences followed by jumping off to something else for 10-15 minutes before remembering what I was trying to get done. Rinse, repeat for about 3 hours now. If I had just sat down, wrote out what I wanted and moved on, I would have been done in probably 15 minutes. This is something that really bleeds into everything I do. Between my phone notifications, and my computer notifications, and my ever growing to-do list in my head, it just seems I'm always jumping around, never focusing, very seldom seeing something through. I'm trying to think of ways to improve this. 

Do you mean actual work here or do you mean all your projects?  For work, the only suggestion I have is to use a timer system, much like the pomodoro method, and try to stay focused for the duration of the timer and save the distractions for the programmed breaks.  If you mean your other projects then it depends on why you get distracted.  Are you doing too many things? Not the right things?  

That's my advice, for what it's worth.  I hope you find some clarity.  

[WhiteGhost]

ohai! I see you are over here now so stopping in to sub your BL as well

[Machete]

I think I've been liking posts in this thread but have never actually posted. (But now @Sylvaa has forced my hand.) I think we have the same problem of jumping around different endeavors and never really getting anything done. Personally what I do whenever I catch myself is stop everything, then handle whatever is already on my plate before moving on. It has been taking a good part of the year and I still slip up, but it's going. I'm on a promise not to buy any more books until I finish the ones I already have. The to buy list grows every day. It sounds like you're doing this as well, with your preference for Option 1, which I am biased towards. Motivation is fun and everything, but I bet you've gone without it many times.

 

Coaching is definitely a great idea. We're all susceptible to hubris and buying our own BS, and being accountable to someone keeps us in check. Most people who are great at something were probably coached by someone else. "If you coach yourself, you have an idiot for a client." (Dan John)

[The Most Loathed]

On 10/17/2017 at 4:22 PM, Rooks said:

Anyone reading this have experience with coaches, both positive or negative? 

Dan John is also a fan of coaches. 

I have used in person coaching and virtual and known people who have used both. Hell, I've done coaching. I think coaches can be valuable but the stars have to align. 

If you want to learn a new skill or improve your technique, in person coaching with an expert can be very helpful. There's really no replacement for getting live feedback while they put you though various movements and watch you from any angle. This is very expensive over time but very valuable. Unless you really want to compete at a high level you can do coaching touch points to tune your technique then go off and train on your own. 

Virtual coaching is tougher because they only get to see the reps you show them, from the angle you show them. Even if you're skyping, there's just less bandwidth. If you're using YouTube then there is also the lag of however long it takes you to upload and them to respond. In the latter case you are their lowest priority. 

"coaching", meaning just writing workouts works really well virtually. You tend to get boilerplate workouts even if you're signed up for "coaching" or at least I felt like I did. Losing the conversations with your coach can hurt the process. 

 

My in person sessions with my first kettlebell sport coach were worth far more than I paid for them. Even my "coaching" with Kurt Hartmann, a trainer in town, were amazingly valuable. Those were helped along by the fact that we met once a month and had a coaching session. My "coaching" by one of the best KB sport lifters in the US was one of my biggest wastes of money ever. We also tried to do some coaching but he's a far better lifter than coach. The programs I bought from GMB barely clear the "coaching" bar but have been good but other programs I have bought *cough*Pavel*cough* have been garbage. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is, know why your getting coaching and be clear with your coach. Have goals and hold him or her accountable that if you do the work, as prescribed, and don't hit the goals, it's on them. Don't over commit in terms of time or money. 

[Rooks]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:24 PM, Sylvaa said:

 

I had a local coach ("trainer", but his specialty was sports - to the extent that he worked with Bama's football team for a few years). He was a great guy, but my biggest issue was that my goals were kind of all over the place. So he wasn't really helpful long-term. Like, I had too many goals to really see progress in any one - unless I was willing to commit months. Also, my travel schedule made it really hard to have consistency.

 

I'm doing online training with Yancy Culp right now and I really like it. It's not personal - he's got a large number of people who are following the same schedule. BUT it's tailored to people who want to improve in OCR's, so it has variety (which I really like) while still focusing on my overall goals. Also, he's super responsive - if you ask a question, his turn around time is less than 24 hours. We talked a few (two?) challenges ago about trainers in my thread. I can see if I can dig it out. I tagged both @RedStone and @Machete in it because I truly value their opinions in these matters. 

 

IMO, you need to do whatever is going to keep you going. Based on your above options, I would say trend towards #3 - it seems to be the one that would keep you motivated without potentially leading to injuries. What about some other martial art? 

 

Yeah. Finding a purpose seems to be the biggest struggle right now. I really do keep coming back to wanting a 2000lb Super Total though. And that seems so in line with the training I like. I just need to figure out a coach that might be able to get me where I want to go and understand maybe how to help me ramp back for a bit and get things feeling well again first before ramping up the intensity. We shall see.

 

On 10/17/2017 at 8:34 PM, Sloth the Enduring said:

If you're looking for advice... If your back is keeping you from doing what you want to do, it needs to be your focus. Since its your thing, I'd find a way to fit in some weightlifting as it'll keep you motivated.

 

Stop with your logic, Sloth.  But yeah, I agree. That's really why I'm thinking I need to suck it up and hammer out some GB work. I really do think it'll improve. At least for 3 months.

 

On 10/17/2017 at 8:41 PM, RedStone said:

Of course I'm a big fan of receiving coaching!  A good coach uses their expertise to understand and format your goals into a game plan that you'll enjoy and stick to. A qualified coach has a full understanding of kinesiology, anatomy and physics, and the PROGRAMMING to work through and around your needs to get you where you want to be. It can be a big commitment, long or short term, but it's an investment in yourself and your long term. Choose your coach well.

 

Meanwhile.... Twin cities? Have you considered the infamous Miss Broki? I'm sure @Sam Ashen 's horror stories are only decorated for the narrative... 

 

I removed that creepy clown picture from the quote. Damn creepy clowns. Anyway, thanks for the input. That said, @Sam Ashen, I would be interested in hearing more about your experiences here in the TC. If it's a matter of catching up on your threads, just point me in that direction and I'll get to reading.

 

On 10/17/2017 at 9:05 PM, Sam Ashen said:

At first I read astronomy!

 

Also, could be important for some types of coaching.  

 

On 10/17/2017 at 10:40 PM, LadyShello said:

Do you mean actual work here or do you mean all your projects?  For work, the only suggestion I have is to use a timer system, much like the pomodoro method, and try to stay focused for the duration of the timer and save the distractions for the programmed breaks.  If you mean your other projects then it depends on why you get distracted.  Are you doing too many things? Not the right things?  

That's my advice, for what it's worth.  I hope you find some clarity.  

 

Mostly work. I feel like I've been bad about staying focused and on task here on the job. Too often, I'm checking FB or my home e-mail as a habit when I get stuck or am forced to think about something. The pomodoro method seems to be simple and somewhat in line with some thinking I've had lately. When making my tasks lists for the day, I've found that in general, I've been more productive if I time box things (say work on this for 90 minutes) instead of telling myself to get x things done on that project. The latter has led to me getting frustrated when I run into a roadblock and simply don't want to work through it, so I give up. Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try next week.

 

On 10/18/2017 at 1:20 AM, WhiteGhost said:

ohai! I see you are over here now so stopping in to sub your BL as well

 

What up WhiteGhost. Welcome to the BL. I'll probably be here for awhile. 

 

22 hours ago, Machete said:

I think I've been liking posts in this thread but have never actually posted. (But now @Sylvaa has forced my hand.) I think we have the same problem of jumping around different endeavors and never really getting anything done. Personally what I do whenever I catch myself is stop everything, then handle whatever is already on my plate before moving on. It has been taking a good part of the year and I still slip up, but it's going. I'm on a promise not to buy any more books until I finish the ones I already have. The to buy list grows every day. It sounds like you're doing this as well, with your preference for Option 1, which I am biased towards. Motivation is fun and everything, but I bet you've gone without it many times.

 

Coaching is definitely a great idea. We're all susceptible to hubris and buying our own BS, and being accountable to someone keeps us in check. Most people who are great at something were probably coached by someone else. "If you coach yourself, you have an idiot for a client." (Dan John)

 

Dan John just has some great lines. Thanks for the insight sir. I think the preference for Option 1 stems from the fact that I know it'll only help to devote 3 months to that training.

 

15 hours ago, The Most Loathed said:

Dan John is also a fan of coaches. 

I have used in person coaching and virtual and known people who have used both. Hell, I've done coaching. I think coaches can be valuable but the stars have to align. 

If you want to learn a new skill or improve your technique, in person coaching with an expert can be very helpful. There's really no replacement for getting live feedback while they put you though various movements and watch you from any angle. This is very expensive over time but very valuable. Unless you really want to compete at a high level you can do coaching touch points to tune your technique then go off and train on your own. 

Virtual coaching is tougher because they only get to see the reps you show them, from the angle you show them. Even if you're skyping, there's just less bandwidth. If you're using YouTube then there is also the lag of however long it takes you to upload and them to respond. In the latter case you are their lowest priority. 

"coaching", meaning just writing workouts works really well virtually. You tend to get boilerplate workouts even if you're signed up for "coaching" or at least I felt like I did. Losing the conversations with your coach can hurt the process. 

 

My in person sessions with my first kettlebell sport coach were worth far more than I paid for them. Even my "coaching" with Kurt Hartmann, a trainer in town, were amazingly valuable. Those were helped along by the fact that we met once a month and had a coaching session. My "coaching" by one of the best KB sport lifters in the US was one of my biggest wastes of money ever. We also tried to do some coaching but he's a far better lifter than coach. The programs I bought from GMB barely clear the "coaching" bar but have been good but other programs I have bought *cough*Pavel*cough* have been garbage. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is, know why your getting coaching and be clear with your coach. Have goals and hold him or her accountable that if you do the work, as prescribed, and don't hit the goals, it's on them. Don't over commit in terms of time or money. 

 

That last little line item is gold. Thank you for your insight. 

 

======

 

Quite a few responses. Probably more than I've ever gotten here in the Battle Log. Thank you all.

 

So in the past few days, I feel like the new desk setup is working as intended. I've been able to stay on topic with the thing that's on my screen and buckle down. That said, work has also been a little slow because our development team is short handed meaning they aren't really fixing anything so I've got nothing to test. So I've been doing stuff that just interests me (long way of saying that could also be aiding to my focus). 

 

I've also reached out to a few people about the coaching thing. Back in 2015, I did my powerlifting meet and I saw a gentleman there named Mark Schneider bury a 205kg squat with no sleeves and no belt weighing only 95kg (clearly didn't cut down to the 93kg class). He was just there having fun and coach some other people there doing their first meet. Anyway, he intrigued me, so I stalked him a bit after the meet, found out he was a coach at a gym here in Minneapolis named The Movement, and I've debated about heading down there for quite awhile. Yesterday, I finally pulled the trigger and schedule my free "intro" session with them for next Wednesday. It'll be interesting to see what the sales pitch is and see if they have any interest in hearing my side of things and whether they'll be willing to do a custom thing for me instead of the boilerplate "access to the gym classes" thing. I'm fine if that's what to stick to, but I just don't think it'll be for me. 

 

Anyway, I also reached out to Dr. Travis Jewett (he's a MWOD coach and a Kabuki Strength follower that coaches out of Iowa) on if he knew any solid coaches up here in the Twin Cities. He gave me a name of someone down in Edin Prairie and said he was available for Skype consultation as well. So yeah... conversations are taking place. 

 

Haven't really done anything for work outs. I got up early yesterday only to realize my bluetooth head phones were dead and used that as a reason why I just couldn't do anything. Sad state of affairs in the motivation department. But changes will be made shortly to get this ship righted. 

[Sam Ashen]

7 minutes ago, Rooks said:

That said, @Sam Ashen, I would be interested in hearing more about your experiences here in the TC. If it's a matter of catching up on your threads, just point me in that direction and I'll get to reading.

 

You mean life in general?

 

You are western Metro, correct?

[Rooks]

3 minutes ago, Sam Ashen said:

You mean life in general?

 

You are western Metro, correct?

 

I'm in North Minneapolis, Lind-Bohanon neighborhood if you want to get specific. So I guess that's sort of the west side of the overall Twin Cities. 

 

I'm curious more about how your gyms / coaches have been. I think you are mostly down south, so probably wouldn't be joining up, but just curious if your experiences have been positive and worth the time and money.

[Rooks]

So starting this one off with a question. Is wrong to partake in fitness to satisfy someone else?

 

I'm realizing more and more that a lot of what I do in my life is to satisfy others. Whether it's my job (my boss), chores around the house (my wife), being silly and fun (my kid), or posting stuff to the internet (random internet likes), a lot of what I do is focused on trying to please others. I did my free training session at the nearby gym and it seemed ok, but not really sure it's what I'd want out of a gym. Anyway, I thought about doing a some 1:1 coaching with someone, but I'm wondering why. I honestly think I'd do great in the system, but the reasoning would be to not let my coach down and I'm not sure if I like that reasoning. Hence, my question. Is that a decent reason to do something? 

 

Or do I need to figure out what the hell is going on with myself and try and find my why? Try and correct the "system". I'm honestly beginning to feel more and more like this clearly must have something to do with my daughter and the treatments. And, that honestly wouldn't shock me. It's a frickin' brain tumor to my only kid. Of course, it's going to have some sort of affect on me. And I know so far, I've seen that I've had vastly different perspectives on things. The trivial shit really feels really trivial these days. But maybe it's sapped my motivation to do things in other aspects of my life. 

 

Anyway... it's been quite awhile since I posted anything in my own thread, so figured I'd write up something (especially because I'm on my 4th beer of the night and why the hell not). Since the Hammer Race, I don't believe I've worked out. Desire has been nonexistent and for now, I think I'm finally coming to peace with that. I've been focusing on getting some things done around the house, like working on my truck again. I finally got the fuel pump installed that's been sitting on my workbench for a good 6 months. Was a fun project that I'm happy to report was a complete success. Almost thought I ruined a fuel line, but only required a new o-ring, so huzzah! 

 

I spent a few hours in the garage ripping apart some pallets I got recently as I've seen some pretty cool projects made out of pallet wood. Figured I'd give them a go since they are good hand tool projects (nails in wood aren't great for planers, jointers, and table saws). Anyway, this isn't a woodworking forum, so I won't digress.

 

All that said, life has been good. Kiddo just had her 4th birthday party yesterday (actual birthday is tomorrow). Work is easy and fun. Last MRI showed that my daughter's tumor was stable which is good news, although I'd honestly still like to hear it's shrinking. So yeah. I've got nothing to complain about. Now I just gotta figure out how to get myself back in the gym on the regular. 

[Ryuu1011]

9 hours ago, Rooks said:

So starting this one off with a question. Is wrong to partake in fitness to satisfy someone else?

I don't think it would be wrong. It sounds to me like your grappling between extrinsic (outside) and intrinsic (inside) motivation and while it is better to be intrinsically motivated to do stuff it's not always possible to start off that way.Once you get into the groove again you' might realize that you're more intrinsically motivated that you thought and that you're now doing it for the internal reward (runner/ lifter's high) as opposed to just doing it just for your coach. A good coach can help you strike a balance between the two as well since it's not bad to want to please and make your coach proud of you. In addition by getting a coach/working out aren't you getting closer to achieving your health/fitness goals and at the end of the day isn't achieving those goals the point, regardless of how you motivated yourself into getting there? Sometimes we have to help/trick ourselves into doing what is best for us even if the motivation isn't there or isn't quite right. Ultimately, do whatever is going to help you move closer to your life's goals so that you're moving closer to your ideal self. 

[Shello]

10 hours ago, Rooks said:

Now I just gotta figure out how to get myself back in the gym on the regular. 

I pretty much agree with Ryuu.  If this is your goal, then however you motivate yourself to get it done is fine.   But the deeper question is why do you (or rather do you really) want to get back to the gym regularly?  Is this a goal because you think it's what you should be doing or because *you* think you should?   If its the former, then I'd revert back to figuring out what the heck you really want and work on that and forget about goals for other people.  But if it's the latter and you are just struggling with motivation, then take any motivation you can get.  

 

Glad to hear that there is some good news about your daughter.  I know you'd rather it be better news but one step at a time I guess.  Also, happy birthday to her! 

[Laghail]

Nah, family medical drama really shakes my motivations as well. Like @Ryuu1011 said, external motivation isn't a bad thing, but you might just be finding your internal motivation is a big blinking question mark, and perhaps you've been squishing the two into one category. Now that they're delineating, it can certainly be disorienting.

[Sloth the Enduring]

I think it's natural to be existential after everything you've gone through. You need to keep wrestling with your goals and figure out what it is you really want.

I hope the kiddo is having a good birthday today.

[Sylvaa]

On 11/12/2017 at 11:35 PM, Rooks said:

So starting this one off with a question. Is wrong to partake in fitness to satisfy someone else?

 

For most people, I would say no. But for you, I say yes. 

 

Let's be honest, your normal is not my normal - or probably the normal of anyone else who reads your thread. How much of your life is a holding pattern because you never know what is going to happen next? It's definitely relevant to the situation at hand. Was it in a thread you follow too that there was talk about habit versus willpower/motivation? Right now, I would say that habit is the bigger concern because keeping yourself healthy (physically and mentally) is super important, so if pleasing someone else keeps the habit going, stay with that.

 

Going forward, I agree that you need to figure out a way out of the rut you are in and look more to motivation. At some point, there will be a tipping point where your life won't be at the point it is now. Life will change and you'll have to be able to find something else to keep you going. I'm slowly starting to go down this path myself. I've spent my 20's and 30's raising children. All of a sudden, I'm going to be an empty-nester at 40. We will be going for a 6-person house to a 2-person house. Everything is starting to be different. So all those things that originally needed to be automatic aren't going to have to be anymore. 

 

Happy Birthday to Kiddo!

[Elastigirl]

I just posted this on the Ranger thread because I thought it was a good podcast.

The guest is Gretchen Rubins  and she talks about what motivates us and divides us into categories. I wrote more in my thread if you are interested. But the big take away is that some people are motivated outside themselves, some inner, some both. None of these are right or wrong, they are just the way you are wired. Best plan is to just work with it. If it motivates you to do it for others, then go for it. The only downside is if you start doing stuff you hate just to try and make someone happy. 

 

Sounds like you've got some cool projects. And I love hearing about woodworking.My husband is really into woodworking, and it fascinates me how creative people can be.

[Rooks]

This is a fantastic podcast for people curious about overall health. Touches on subjects like IBS and sleeping. Dr. Gominak seems fantastic. 

 

Some simple take aways I took from it.

1. Get outside. It makes you healthier. 
2. If you are taking supplements, make sure you are getting regular blood work to find what that supplement is doing (Vitamin D in particular).
3. Sleep is very important, but if you aren't healthy, sleep can be negatively impacted and be sort of a circular failure (bad sleep leads to worse health).

 

 

[Rooks]

Well, I finally got a workout in. I mean I guess I kind of got one in yesterday, but I'm not totally counting it. 

 

So I took Wednesday - Monday off work due to my wife going on a road trip and me not wanting to deal with drop off and pick up of kiddo with work schedule. So now I get some nice easy relaxing days at home. Anyway, yesterday I did nothing real fun. Found and replaced a broken fuse in my car. Paid a bunch of bills. Wrote my weekly "picks" column for my fantasy football league (side note on that later), and then got a call that my truck was back together and ready for pickup. Well, with my wife off on the road trip, I was left with two options. Either call around to find a friend to drive me the 4.5 miles to the shop or just walk. I opted for the later even if was 35℉ and windy. I bundled up and headed out. I tried to jog every 4th block to make it a bit more of a workout and make it go a bit quicker. Location history has it at 1 hour 7 minutes. I was shocked to find it was only around 10k steps. I thought sure it'd be up near 15k. But whatever. So yeah... I was pleased with that and pretty happy that my truck is fully fixed now (with a few minor issues that I can take care). Sadly, the problem with the transmission was made worse by my lack of knowledge (I installed an improper transmission filter when I attempted a repair and then driving it made it much worse). Anyway, such is life.

 

Today, kiddo slept pretty rough last night insisting that she was wide awake at 3:30am. I finally relented and let her get up at 4:15am so I could at least get some sleep. Then at about 4:45 she came back in crying and sad and saying she was super tired, but couldn't possibly go to sleep. I think we both finally passed out again around 5:15am. I had to force her out of bed at 7:30am and she was a SUPER GRUMP. I'd be lying if I said I didn't take a bit of pleasure out of forcing her to get up. Got her to school and back to my place around 9am. Made a nice big breakfast while listening to the podcast I posted above and then got sucked into Family Guy Youtube clips. 45 minutes later I forced myself to close the laptop and clean up the house a bit. That lead to finally getting around to doing some body measurements ( @Laghail convinced me do some tracking over the Holidays with him and a few other fellas). The measurements convinced to get downstairs and hammer out SOMETHING as my stomach measurement was right around the same as my chest measurement. No bueno.

• Front Squats - 45/5, 95/5, 135/1, 185/1, 135/5 x 3
  • Squat Shoes, No Sleeves. Before the working sets, I did a back rack hold and a front rack hold with 275 just for giggles. 
• Fat Bar Deadlifts - 135/10 x 3
  • DOH Grip. More for grip training then deadlift work. Worked nicely. Good to finally be using my homemade bar for something. 

Thought about throwing in some KB swings, but felt this was good enough for today. I really need to rope myself in and keep workouts WAY light for a few weeks. Just get back into something then start upping the intensity. Tomorrow, maybe I'll try and get some KB work and a GB stretch routine in.

 

Anyway, off to go clean the garage now. The blood is flowing. Might as well keep the juices going for now. Stay productive with my free time.

SIDE NOTE: Realized after posting that I wanted to write up a completely stupid side note about Fantasy Football. The gist of it is that man, I'm realizing how much time I waste on that stuff and I really don't care about it. I've been in this league for going on 10 years now and the guys are good guys, but I'm finding that I don't know if I want to do it anymore with the NFL and it's absurd amount of bad PR (concussions, treating players like poo, constant bad PR with tons of abuse and scandals) and with the fact that I think I have more important things to do. Anyway, no idea if anyway will find my ramblings relevant, but I'll be walking away from Fantasy Football after this year. 

 

[Sloth the Enduring]

I get where you're at with football. I stopped following bike racing after all the scandals of the 90's (Lance Pharmstrong was just the tip of the iceberg). Although I'm starting to follow it again.

I'm glad you got back in the gym.

[Rooks]

So, totally hi-jacking @WhiteGhost's idea of a question for the "audience" to start my posts. I like that. This time around, I've got two quotes from a recent podcast. I'm curious what people think about them. In the first quote, "that" is in regards to the man's dangerousness, take that however you'd want.

Quote

A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is very very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control.

 

Quote

You know you think that freedom gives your life meaning. That's true if you are under a tyranny. But if you're not, it's responsibility that gives your life meaning...

 

So, the I last posted on Thursday at noon. I had work off Friday and Monday, and spent the weekend at my parents house. I had some sort of lingering disease that had my energy levels pretty sapped. Ended up going to bed by 9 every night until Sunday night where I was finally starting to feel better.

 

I didn't get any workouts in, but I did get a load of work done. My garage is looking great (or as great as a garage with a busted up floor can look). Very organized and got rid of so much crap that was just had in there for no reason. Also, finally got my dad's drill press brought back up to my house. He hasn't used it in years so he was fine with me taking it. I work with metal enough that it'll be nice to have that for drilling some of those bigger holes. Pretty excited about that. Now if I could just figure out how to get a circuit capable of running a welder in Minneapolis. 

 

Tomorrow, I'm going to get up early and get into the basement before work. GB Core work and maybe some swings or barbell work. We shall see. 

[Shello]

26 minutes ago, Rooks said:

So, totally hi-jacking @WhiteGhost's idea of a question for the "audience" to start my posts. I like that. This time around, I've got two quotes from a recent podcast. I'm curious what people think about them. In the first quote, "that" is in regards to the man's dangerousness, take that however you'd want.

Quote

A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is very very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control.

 

Quote

You know you think that freedom gives your life meaning. That's true if you are under a tyranny. But if you're not, it's responsibility that gives your life meaning...

 

What do we mean by 'good'?   I'll assume this is something like virtuous.  The same dilemma pops up with other virtues being used as a measure of 'good'.  Who has more virtue?  The man who is greedy by nature but puts a lot of effort into acting selfless and helping others despite his nature, or the man who is selfless by nature and never even thinks twice about helping others?  Or perhaps the man who was once greedy and fought against his nature and now is selfless without question. 

 

[Sylvaa]

1 hour ago, Rooks said:

Quote

A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is very very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control.

 

Quote

You know you think that freedom gives your life meaning. That's true if you are under a tyranny. But if you're not, it's responsibility that gives your life meaning...

 

This made me think of:

 

I'm not sure what your podcast was about, but I can see an argument using "goodness" as a crutch to give us permission to not react to bad things that happen. 

 

Glad to hear that you are feeling better!

[WhiteGhost]

7 hours ago, Rooks said:

So, totally hi-jacking @WhiteGhost's idea of a question for the "audience" to start my posts.

I stole it from @Jarric who may have stolen it from someone else. Stealing Sharing ideas is the great NF tradition  

 

7 hours ago, Rooks said:

A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is very very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control.

I would agree that "good" here needs to be defined, but harmless and dangerous can also carry a number of meanings.  I would argue that a person's underlying character traits are not what defines a person's goodness or virtue, but what they do.  Just because virtuous action comes more natural to one person, does not make them any less virtuous for doing them.  No one would say that an Olympic athlete is worse than another athlete just because he has a natural talent for it.

 

7 hours ago, Rooks said:

You know you think that freedom gives your life meaning. That's true if you are under a tyranny. But if you're not, it's responsibility that gives your life meaning...

The erroneous assumption in this is that freedom and responsibility are not two ends of the same stick.  One cannot exist independently of the other.

[The Most Loathed]

14 hours ago, LadyShello said:

What do we mean by 'good'?   I'll assume this is something like virtuous.  The same dilemma pops up with other virtues being used as a measure of 'good'.  Who has more virtue?  The man who is greedy by nature but puts a lot of effort into acting selfless and helping others despite his nature, or the man who is selfless by nature and never even thinks twice about helping others?  Or perhaps the man who was once greedy and fought against his nature and now is selfless without question. 

 

Your example is much more grey than @Rooks. I think his quote is about it not being "good" or noble to unable to be "bad" but in having the capability and making a choice and acting voluntarily in a "good" way. It's about thinking about your actions and choices and not just doing what comes naturally and assuming it is "right" or "good". 

[Rooks]

@Sloth the Enduring @The Most Loathed @LadyShello

 

Looks like spring Hammer Race registration opens this weekend. Are you guys planning on doing it again? 

https://www.facebook.com/thehammerrace/photos/a.174979125976995.46239.167008476774060/1031693123638920/

 

On 11/21/2017 at 3:38 PM, LadyShello said:

What do we mean by 'good'?   I'll assume this is something like virtuous.  The same dilemma pops up with other virtues being used as a measure of 'good'.  Who has more virtue?  The man who is greedy by nature but puts a lot of effort into acting selfless and helping others despite his nature, or the man who is selfless by nature and never even thinks twice about helping others?  Or perhaps the man who was once greedy and fought against his nature and now is selfless without question. 

10 hours ago, The Most Loathed said:

Your example is much more grey than @Rooks. I think his quote is about it not being "good" or noble to unable to be "bad" but in having the capability and making a choice and acting voluntarily in a "good" way. It's about thinking about your actions and choices and not just doing what comes naturally and assuming it is "right" or "good". 

 

So the context of the quote. Jordan Peterson said it Jocko Podcast #98. He actually said both in that podcast. I've listened to a few of his podcasts (2 with Joe Rogan and now this one) and I'm really beginning to be a fan of what he talks about. 

 

I think the idea that I took from it (and I'll fully admit that I may have been pulling a lot of the context out that wasn't directly in the quote) was that being weak in whatever form doesn't mean someone who would fit well into society and do what is right. It's more that we should aim to be self-sufficient and capable and strong, but then understand the power that comes from that. Understand that using that improperly could cause harm to others, but you are choosing to be a productive and positive member of society. 

 

Sorry for all the confusion. I need to better phrase my questions.  

 

21 hours ago, Sylvaa said:

This made me think of:

 

I'm not sure what your podcast was about, but I can see an argument using "goodness" as a crutch to give us permission to not react to bad things that happen. 

 

Glad to hear that you are feeling better!

 

That's a good quote. I think I've heard it before, but never before known the source. I'll have to spend a few minutes looking up that Edmund Burke character.

 

17 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

I stole it from @Jarric who may have stolen it from someone else. Stealing Sharing ideas is the great NF tradition  

 

I would agree that "good" here needs to be defined, but harmless and dangerous can also carry a number of meanings.  I would argue that a person's underlying character traits are not what defines a person's goodness or virtue, but what they do.  Just because virtuous action comes more natural to one person, does not make them any less virtuous for doing them.  No one would say that an Olympic athlete is worse than another athlete just because he has a natural talent for it.

 

The erroneous assumption in this is that freedom and responsibility are not two ends of the same stick.  One cannot exist independently of the other.

 

Idea stealing FTW! 

 

The point about assuming and freedom and responsibility is quite good. Thank you for that sir. 

 

Thank you for the replies everyone!

 

[Sloth the Enduring]

I wouldn't miss it. Think we could manage to pull a team together?