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No grain for weeks....now feeling lousy


frogisco

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I agree that the carbs look high. I was staying under 100g carbs this summer when cutting. My protein was over 200 and fat was over 100.

 

I was losing weight and bodyfat by eating more protein/fat and less carbs.

USS & NBAC Masters swim coach

Current: lifter, runner

Former: triathlete, cyclocross racer, NCAA swimmer

 

Current games: Borderlands 2, Runescape, Star Ocean, Dragon's Dogma

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A body fat caliper might really be worth your time. I know it is super defeating to see that scale go up when you are working your ass off, but if you recently started crossfit and paleo there's a 90% chance that you are seeing the weight go up because of muscle gain.

 

Another huge motivator: take progress pics. This will tell the real story of what's happening, regardless of what is on the scale.

 

1750 seems like a fairly reasonable calorie level, although I think you should probably add 500-750 to that on workout days. I'm sure there are calculators online that could give you a more precise answer.

 

The biggest thing to remember, though, is to be consistent. If you are consistent with crossfit and eating/tracking, you are going to see results. It might not be obvious on the scale right away, but imagine where you will be a year from now - there's no way you could do that kind of work for a year without seeing major transformation.

 

Anyhow, a handful of things to try:

More protein

More calories on workout day

Multivitamin/Vitamin D esp. (seasonal lack of light could certainly be a contributor as well)

Level 2 Cyborg Warrior: [ STR 4 | STA 1 | CON 3 | DEX 2 | WIS 3 | CHA 1 ]         Myfitnesspal: physixer   

Challenge 1: I will do SCIENCE to it!

Challenge 2: Experimental Upgrades MK.I

 

"Once you've got a task to do, it's better to do it than live with the fear of it." - Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself

 

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

It is by the protein of whey that I acquire gainz, the muscles acquire DOMS, the DOMS becomes a warning.

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

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A lot of people drop below 150g carbs/day to lose weight.  I did.  Spousal unit did.

 

How are you tracking your food - are you guesstimating it or are you weighing and measuring?  most of us are really bad at guesstimating.  Also, are you sure you are tracking everything that goes in your mouth?  including coffee beverages, sodas, etc?  Sometimes people forget to include drinks. 

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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Ya...I weigh/measure everything...esp meats cuz they add up in a hurry(made that mistake before).

 

This is very frustrating as I've been on a 'diet' for 3 years now...consistant for the most part...and have recently gained 20lbs eating/tracking everything.  In fact, this summer I've never exercised more(as an adult anyways) and still gained massive amnts of inches.  3 garbage bags full of clothes out the door since june of this year....I haven't been this big since I had my snap 3 years ago and started to exercise and eat proper....before that it was a 'see food' diet...I had fries for a snack for god sake!!

 

Sorry...pity party over.

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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You might be struggling with some of the same things I'm struggling with, especially if you're doing some really serious CrossFit stuff.  I've been eating a caloric deficit for... a looooong time.  And it's kind of screwed things up.  I've been making an effort to eat MORE, especially as my workouts have shifted from just endurance running to including more strength training and weight lifting, and it's going BETTER for me as far as losing to be eating more.  Eating more certainly does make me feel better overall, I sleep better, I kick more ass during workouts.  And I'm sure as hell not getting fatter which I was terrified of.

 

I know it's really tough when you feel like you're not losing any weight or even gaining to make an effort to eat more.  Especially since you say you've been on a "diet" for three years.  Your mentality is probably pretty similar to mine.  EAT LESS.  LOSE WEIGHT.  It should be that simple, right?  And certainly a lot of people say it's that easy.  Just eat less!!  And the assumption is if you're eating low amounts of calories and not losing, clearly you're lying in your food tracking, not measuring right, not weighing right.  Not fun to have people take that attitude with you.  And certainly you can't eat MORE and get what you're looking for, right?  If you eat more you'll get fat!

You might look up metabolic damage.  I'm not talking "I was eating 1000 calories for two days MY BODY IS IN STARVATION MODE!!!" claims.  Something that happens over a prolonged period of time.

 

I do think 1750 might be a little low for you.  If you're game to try it, add a little bit.  Maybe do as suggested above and just start with shooting for 1750 net cals on your workout days at first and see how you feel with that.  If you use MyFitnessPal to track, it will automatically adjust for you.  I freaked out the first time I started using it, because I never "ate back" my calories before, and my goal right now is to eat a certain range of calories per day that is higher than I used to.  So I was buzzing along, entering my food, saw how much I still needed to pop into my range for the day... went to go enter my workout... then came back and almost flipped my *$&@ because now that "you still have X number of calories left today!" had just jumped up by about 500.

 

You can definitely try cutting the carbs down and see what happens, try the 100-150g range first.  I'm curious, what are you eating that gets you to 150-190g average carbs per day?  I only ask because I recently started trying to eat higher carb for my endurance workouts and sometimes I'm not getting enough, so I want to know what you're eating so I can steal ideas. =P

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Thanks for stopping by Sheltie....good post!

 

I used a online app(and still do from time to time, but not everyday, as I get a little ocd about what/time/how much/ blah blah...about food and go bonkers).  I tried to 'eat back' the work out cals over the summer when I biked ALOT, because I got a new bike and I like it, not because I think that steady state cardio is a good way to lose weight, I just think it's fun.  Anyhoo, I gained inches and weight eating back, and was 'recommended' by their posts to eat what was generated,,,,,which happens to be 1350-1670cals/day.  Welp, in case you haven't noticed, I cannot eat 1350cals/day...I went stark raving mad(fyi, i'm a food addict too,,,whole other post, just mentioning it).  I just don't get it now.  I work out hard, harder than I did 3 years ago and cannot be successful.  I mean, it was almost easy last time I did a total 360...I lost 20 lbs in 4 months and another 7(which was really hard btw) in 3 months and hovered btwn 155-160 for a year.

 

PS Sheltie, re: carbs eat too much fruit to get the carbs up...I love me a banana.  And roasted yams with lots of salt ;)  quite deeelish.  And i'm NOT paleo, nor do I claim to be as I eat dairy...I just couldn't let it go, sorry nerds, me  needs some greek yogurt.

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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A body fat caliper might really be worth your time. I know it is super defeating to see that scale go up when you are working your ass off, but if you recently started crossfit and paleo there's a 90% chance that you are seeing the weight go up because of muscle gain.

 

Most likely not. The "massive newbie muscle gain" is really just water weight and neuromuscular adaption. I very strongly doubt that OP put on 6lb of muscle in a month.

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I'm guessing, just guessing, you are maybe eating more carbs and nuts, etc.  in combination with not eating enough, etc. 

 

also, losing 20# in 4 mos while kinda cool, also sounds like some extreme dieting and that often doesn't last.  And rebounding from extreme dieting can be rough.

 

Also, how tall are you and what is your weight goal and why?  Also, are you male or female?  (that matters if you don't mind sharing - some people mind so just ignore it if you mind).

 

You write above about sweet potatoes, yogurt, and fruit.  Are these your meal staples?  Insulin surges could be affecting weight loss. 

 

Also what does "recently gained" 20# mean?  over a month or two?  If so, that is in all honesty and I really mean this - a medical issue.  We don't put weight on that fast.  Or do you mean over 6+ mos you gained back what you lost?  Even then, that's impressive weight gain and I would honestly see a doctor about it. 

 

A lot of people eat back their calories after workouts and suck down the calories in shakes, etc. 

 

I'd start with everything that goes in your mouth - track it.  Report a real day here and see if we can help.  It's okay to be primal as long as your body tolerates the lactose so don't sweat that.

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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Cline.....female, 37, 5'8, 182(as of this am,,ugg).   I was 167 June 19th of this year...by sept 1 I was 180 and this was WITH bootcamp and eating 1500-1900cal/day and biking 20-40 kms/week.  Had a physical in July and all values were normal....most bldwk was above average....I don't mean 'high' I mean he was impressed.

 

I 'seemed' comfortable at 155lbs...although at the time it still wasn't good enough...was still 30%bf.  I rarely have a shake, sometimes after a workout when I know i'm not gonna get home for fuds for over an hour, otherwise I don't drink my cals...i'd rather eat ;)  Aight...so here's my day as it stands as planned for today...

 

Bkfst

.75c red pepper

.5c onion

.5c old cheddar

1c egg whites

1tbsp butter

 

Lunch(approx. as I made a huge sucker)

Cauliflower 'bread' stix(about 1/2 recipe)

1/2 head cauliflower

1/2c mozza cheese

1 egg

i'2c crumbled bacon

1/2c tomato sauce

 

Supper

roast beef...prob about 6 oz

roast carrots and sweet potato

1/2c greek yogurt.

 

for snacks, i'll have 1/4c mixed nuts, apple, mixed veg, maybe 1c cottage cheese.

 

This is non workout day.....if that makes a diff

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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You should get more protein. Just sayin' (about 130-140g)

 

But for the issue in question, I have no idea.

It's not 80% diet, 20% exercise, it's 100% diet, 100% exercise. Give it your all.

My journey (Date - Total - BF % - LBM)

2012-01-01 - 242 - 35% - 157

2013-12-15 - 172 - 10% - 155

2016-05-01 - 231 - 25% - 173

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Cline.....female, 37, 5'8, 182(as of this am,,ugg).   I was 167 June 19th of this year...by sept 1 I was 180 and this was WITH bootcamp and eating 1500-1900cal/day and biking 20-40 kms/week.  Had a physical in July and all values were normal....most bldwk was above average....I don't mean 'high' I mean he was impressed.

 

I 'seemed' comfortable at 155lbs...although at the time it still wasn't good enough...was still 30%bf.  I rarely have a shake, sometimes after a workout when I know i'm not gonna get home for fuds for over an hour, otherwise I don't drink my cals...i'd rather eat ;) 

 

AHA!  This helps.  a lot.  Okay.  so more questions (I'm sorry). How do you know your bf?  Asking bc i don't have an accurate way of gauging mine.  Most of us don't. 

 

Also, you haven't "recently" put on 20#.  Looks like a 13# difference and some of that, I guarantee, is normal daily variation.  You need to weigh yourself every day for a couple of weeks to understand your daily swing in body weight.  And for women, a monthy swing can be a lot.  Doesn't make it easy to deal with or accept but at least you'll understand things better.  You can vary by several pounds day to day so your actual weight gain might be more like 8-9# total. 

 

A lot of people rebound off of extreme dieting and gain back and gain a couple extra.  This is a big, common problem.  Biking and boot camp are similar and are both good for burning calories.  and Yeah, ignore the idiots who tell you  otherwise, steady state cardio, done the right way can really help you lose weight.  Of course it can. 

 

At 5'8" 155, my guess is you looked really good.  I think maybe your "bf" means you weren't buff?  Buff won't really come from riding a bike unless you do a hell of a lot more of it.  Buff comes from strength training. 

 

Okay, am I close? 

 

So first rule - stop extreme dieting.  Calculate your BMR and your TDEE and work around that. 

 

Now, diet....

Bkfst

.75c red pepper

.5c onion

.5c old cheddar

1c egg whites

1tbsp butter

 

Lunch(approx. as I made a huge sucker)

Cauliflower 'bread' stix(about 1/2 recipe)

1/2 head cauliflower

1/2c mozza cheese

1 egg

i'2c crumbled bacon

1/2c tomato sauce

 

Supper

roast beef...prob about 6 oz

roast carrots and sweet potato

1/2c greek yogurt.

 

for snacks, i'll have 1/4c mixed nuts, apple, mixed veg, maybe 1c cottage cheese.

 

This is non workout day.....if that makes a diff

 

Yeah.... so.... you have a lot of dairy that is not necessarily protein dense, some carbs, not nearly enough protein, and not nearly enough veg.  And the veg you are choosing are higher carb veg. 

 

And one egg for lunch?  not a good plan.  Also, what are "bread stix"?  Sounds like they might not be nutritionally dense.

 

Okay, food lecture (mini version).

 

You want to calculate your TDEE and then get a rough idea of macros.  if you are primal (that's paleo w some dairy) you want to focus on veggies veggies veggies, protein from animals not lactose based protein!!!, some fat, and enough carbs but not too many.  You want your food options to be nutrient dense not just tasty.  You want the biggest bang for your calories.  That's not cheese generally.  or probably not bread sticks... even if they are paleo.  and while bacon is fun, it's low in protein. And.... you probably don't need a lot of snacks. 

 

If you are doing yogurt or cottage cheese, try 1x day and go for whole fat and make sure it's 1 serving. 

 

Fruit is dessert - eat sparingly.  Nuts - eat sparingly. 

 

Assorted lower carb veg - eat unlimited - eat dark green veg. 

 

Protein - eat animal protein and more of it - fish, beef, turkey, pork, whatever

 

Dairy - eat a lot less cheese.  Promise you don't need it at every meal .  and Yeah, I get it I love cheese too but now it's a rare treat.  Cheese is not a condiment.  If you feel your food is naked, experiment with spices. 

 

Does this help? 

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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Most likely not. The "massive newbie muscle gain" is really just water weight and neuromuscular adaption. I very strongly doubt that OP put on 6lb of muscle in a month.

 

Yes to water weight, but if you are gaining weight from "neuromuscular adaptation", what exactly is getting heavier? Your nervous system? Muscle is heavy, and dense, and many people see weight gain after starting a strength program before they see any loss (even if your end goal is weight loss). I personally put on 10 lbs in a month when I started lifting, and it was very obviously muscle from the before/after pictures.

 

The real measure of whether muscle is being built is performance in the workouts - if more weight is being lifted or more reps are being done or things are getting completed faster, this all points to changes in body composition and muscle growth. And it means you are moving in the right direction (stronger and fitter). Hell, strength training can increase bone mass, and that's going to show up on the scale as surely as anything else. Maybe not as much for somebody who is a trained athlete, but almost certainly for anybody new to fitness.

 

My wife struggles with this constantly - she has done dieting on and off for ages, tried juice fasts, Atkins, South Beach, personal trainers, cardio, running, etc. She gets really frustrated when the scale doesn't reflect as much change as she'd like to see, but recently she started doing Beachbody stuff and as part of it she started measuring body fat, taking progress pics, taking measurements, etc. She's been really consistent with it, and even though the scale doesn't always move the amount or direction she wants it to, the difference in appearance month to month is really dramatic.

 

She recently started having similar symptoms - getting tired, less energetic, etc - things have improved since she started compensating for workouts every day by eating more calories. There's also something to be said for an occasional day of eating way over your calories to prevent "metabolic downregulation" (slow-carb diet has a fair amount of info about this).

 

At any rate, this is one of those things where you're gonna get a lot of armchair nutritionists (guilty as charged myself) and people who each advocate different approaches based on personal experience. The truth is, picking a program, being consistent with it, and tracking as much as you can (so you have some objective measures to evaluate progress on) is the way to go. Based on your results after 6 weeks, adjust and repeat. Find what works for YOU.

Level 2 Cyborg Warrior: [ STR 4 | STA 1 | CON 3 | DEX 2 | WIS 3 | CHA 1 ]         Myfitnesspal: physixer   

Challenge 1: I will do SCIENCE to it!

Challenge 2: Experimental Upgrades MK.I

 

"Once you've got a task to do, it's better to do it than live with the fear of it." - Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself

 

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

It is by the protein of whey that I acquire gainz, the muscles acquire DOMS, the DOMS becomes a warning.

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

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Yes to water weight, but if you are gaining weight from "neuromuscular adaptation", what exactly is getting heavier? Your nervous system? Muscle is heavy, and dense, and many people see weight gain after starting a strength program before they see any loss (even if your end goal is weight loss). I personally put on 10 lbs in a month when I started lifting, and it was very obviously muscle from the before/after pictures.

 

Note I used quotations for "massive newbie muscle gain" -  because it isn't really massive muscle gain. It's mostly water weight to explain the size and weight changes, and neuromuscular adaptation (your body using what it already has, only more efficiently) to explain the strength gains. That is also why performance alone is not a great measure of muscle gain. When you gained 10lb in a month, I promise you it was not all muscle unless you were on steroids. You gained water weight in your muscles so that they looked fuller. Anyway, I'll leave this matter and stick to talking to the OP.

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Note I used quotations for "massive newbie muscle gain" -  because it isn't really massive muscle gain. It's mostly water weight to explain the size and weight changes, and neuromuscular adaptation (your body using what it already has, only more efficiently) to explain the strength gains. That is also why performance alone is not a great measure of muscle gain. When you gained 10lb in a month, I promise you it was not all muscle unless you were on steroids. You gained water weight in your muscles so that they looked fuller. Anyway, I'll leave this matter and stick to talking to the OP.

 

My only real point here is this: If you look better and are stronger, who cares what the scale says? Ultimately, being more capable and/or looking better is the end goal of any fitness regimen, and the scale might go up or it might go down during that process for myriad reasons. It is just one small data point - workout performance and progress pictures tell the real story.

Level 2 Cyborg Warrior: [ STR 4 | STA 1 | CON 3 | DEX 2 | WIS 3 | CHA 1 ]         Myfitnesspal: physixer   

Challenge 1: I will do SCIENCE to it!

Challenge 2: Experimental Upgrades MK.I

 

"Once you've got a task to do, it's better to do it than live with the fear of it." - Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself

 

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

It is by the protein of whey that I acquire gainz, the muscles acquire DOMS, the DOMS becomes a warning.

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

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Atom....agreed on the looking better/stronger point....however although stronger, I am definitely not looking better....measures are going up, not down.  if they were going down and the scale was going up, then there wouldn't be an issue as I would be getting smaller right?

 

Cline..My bad...exaggerated on the 20lb gain...is about 15 since june, I was 154 one year ago.

I must admit ima little embarrassed by the amnt of cheese I ate today..my bad, this is not the usual,,,normally have a single serve yogurt for my am snack to get me thru to lunch.  I guess ima eating too much cauliflower and not enough greens huh? 

Dammit.  I suppose I need to be cutting out the fruit too.  Sigh.  I've checked many different sites about my ideal cals/day...range from 1300-1900??  Pretty vague.  All I know is I gained eating 1650-1850 doing bootcamp/ biking this summer...both weight and measure. 

At 155 I was far from buff....still soft,,,i really don't wanna be soft.  I used the online navy bf calculator, and the one at the globo gym(which I know is not totally accurate, but I have a lot of obvious fat, so I don't think it's far off).

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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Atom....agreed on the looking better/stronger point....however although stronger, I am definitely not looking better....measures are going up, not down.  if they were going down and the scale was going up, then there wouldn't be an issue as I would be getting smaller right?

 

 Sigh.  I've checked many different sites about my ideal cals/day...range from 1300-1900??  Pretty vague.  All I know is I gained eating 1650-1850 doing bootcamp/ biking this summer...both weight and measure. 

 

This site seems legit: calculator.net

 

Here's the results:

you need 2417 Calories/day to maintain your weight

you need 1917 Calories/day to lose 1 lb per week

you need 1417 Calories/day to lose 2 lb per week

you need 2917 Calories/day to gain 1 lb per week

you need 3417 Calories/day to gain 2 lb per week

 

A quick and dirty estimate of Crossfit from this site: fitclick.com

1 hr Crossfit at your stats: 826 calories

(I don't know the specifics of your routine, so you might need to adjust)

 

That suggests you ought to be eating 1900 calories a day, and 2700 on your workout days (if you don't want to enter starvation mode). Which would explain why you feel like crap.

 

There's a study of a tribal group out there that walks ~20 miles a day and only burns 2000 calories like the rest of us - extreme dieting and excessive cardio can make your body learn to store every last calorie it can.

 

I guess the point is: the trend lately seems to be away from the tons of cardio and self-starvation routine (which is a losing battle against your metabolism which is trying to keep you from starving to death) and towards high-intensity, strength-based routines that boost metabolism while eating reasonable amounts of good calories. This seems pretty logical from my view, especially for long-term, permanent change (instead of short-term gratifying changes in the scale).

 

I really think you are doing a lot of things right here, and maybe getting a few more calories (especially on workout days) and making some of small adjustments to the kind of calories (as others have recommended) could make the critical difference for you.

Level 2 Cyborg Warrior: [ STR 4 | STA 1 | CON 3 | DEX 2 | WIS 3 | CHA 1 ]         Myfitnesspal: physixer   

Challenge 1: I will do SCIENCE to it!

Challenge 2: Experimental Upgrades MK.I

 

"Once you've got a task to do, it's better to do it than live with the fear of it." - Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself

 

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

It is by the protein of whey that I acquire gainz, the muscles acquire DOMS, the DOMS becomes a warning.

It is by will alone I set the weights in motion.

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Thanks Atom for doing those calculations.  I guess i'm still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to total cals...I mean most sites still have chicks to eat between 1200-1500/day.  I do think the estimate of the crossfit is a little much....but it is really hard even if the actual work is a short duration.  Guess moral of the story is to keep trying.  Cheers!

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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That help looks really really good. Yea!!! Also those bf calculators are not good. Give up estimating it unless you are doing measurements (also flawed).

Boot camp doesn't burn nearly as much as you think...and neither do most crossfit days. And neither does biking 15 mi. There is a good chance you were over eating. A lot of people "earn" eating more bc they exercise but end up eating way too much. Also people tend to "eat more" to fuel a workout, you do not need to do that for either boot camp or biking 30k.

So.... Now....what is your plan? A rational, reasonable, happy place plan?

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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Welp,,,,guess im back to the old drawing board huh.  As when I was doing the bootcamp/biking I was eating no more than 1900 on w/o days, and 1650ish on non and still gained...so the above calculator seems way too high.  I KNOW I don't burn 800+cals in a w/o. 

Finishing last is still finishing.......

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Agreed^^^^

I don't ever track exercise calories. I never exercise to lose weight. Diet => weight loss. I exercise bc I love it and feel great.

Btw, if you love biking so much, go back to it. You'll be so much happier!!! Do what you love.

As for diet... Use the TDEE. Do your calculations and figure out calories. Then cut a bit. That's how it's done. But be reasonable.

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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Frogisco,

I would suggest not cutting 500 right away. Do maybe half that and follow that plan for 3 weeks. Track everything, take measurements weekly. Stay 100% consistent each day.

Also, make sure that 40% of those calories are protein and split the rest with fat and carbs how you like but stay to that macro number consistently.

See what happens and then adjust. The key is consistency.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Pinterest: Alex's Paleo Wins - Recipes on Pinterest              Instagram: alexcold23             MFP: dalex916

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Generally, it's not a 500 cal per day cut.

You can ride when it's cold.

What else do you love?

I AM going the distance

 

'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

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