To the Test!

[Jittersthe.Clown]

With as many bright individuals that are found on the NF forums, I am hopeful to find some more insight from other parents with kids in school.

 

Here stateside, there are standardized tests that children are required to take and schools are required to pass in order to gain funding.  Part of a well meaning, but poorly thought out program called "No Child Left Behind".  While I get the basics of it, the reality is not all children learn the same.  Not all children are going to go to college.  Not all children want to go to college.  What frustrates me most is that they focus on Math and Reading.  These are important subjects, but the way the schools are going, it seems like these are the only important subjects.  And in a way, if they want their funding, they are.  

 

Back story time.  My son is in 1st grade.  He's bright, energetic and creative.  He loves to invent new games and work on science experiments at home.  Give him a notebook and some pencils, it will be filled by the end of the day.  He loves his art.  He is doing 3rd grade math with ease, but his reading test was poor.  Now, I live with this kid.  I've known him his whole life (Short as it has been so far), and I know what he is capable of.  The school sent something home about wanting to put him into a small group of kids who will get extra time for reading.  While this seems great (and really, it is for the most part), the first question my wife and I had was, what is this going to take the place of?  It's during regular school hours, so I was wondering if it's going to cut into something else.  So, like sensible parents, we send an email to his teachers asking.  Turns out, his creative art time is what it's going to cost.  At what point do we say no?  We haven't decided if we are going to have them put him into this program or if we will just work on his reading more at home so he can still get his art time in.  You should see his face when he shows us what he did in art that day.  It's priceless. I know he can read if he slows down and thinks about it.  I've seen it in action.  Someone mentioned he should be put on meds so he can slow down.  That will not happen.  The speed of his mind is what has shaped who he is now and what he has accomplished so far.  I'm not going to take that from him.  

 

 

So, I guess my question to you is, how do you feel about the test being the major focus of school?  Can we be doing better at raising kids who may not want to be a banker or a literary major?  I know that math and reading are important subjects.  I know you need math to be a good scientist.  You need to be able to read and write to fill out your newest patent.  What about the artists?  What about the child whose music will change lives and can't read a note of what they play?  

[Ceasefire]

I think you know your son best and know what you'd like to see in his future. If you feel that his creativity would suffer, then opt out. If you feel like you can offer him outlets at home for either his reading or his art, then you should choose which one you'd like to have more control over in your household.

 

Personally, I'd probably opt to have my child go to reading class with his peers. The learning tools they can provide at school trump those I can provide at home. And the opportunity to allow him his own creative space in the home (especially if you can find ways to reward him here for good work in reading comprehension at school) might allow for him to get the best of both worlds.

[El Exorcisto]

I think the idea of standardizing anything for kids is fucking ludicrous. Not just that, but the content in schools is a joke from phys ed up to AP bio. I'm going to be home schooling my daughter in a couple years to avoid having to deal with a system so intent on making her mediocre at best. Phys ed will be time under the bar or climbing mountains, music will be spent actually learning to play an instrument, and bio will involve actually cutting things open and learning what makes a body tick. The mundane of math and English will be taught in a more conventional way I'd imagine, but she'll steer that herself.

 

You want an answer to your problem? Don't rely on people who would rather your child be less than they are, just so they don't have to work so hard at a job they only took for the paycheck.

[Dr. Kate]

Math and reading are all they test until 4th or 5th grade.  It's disheartening.  My son was home schooled prior to this year (3rd grade) and he was super sad the first week of school when he was the one in his class who said science was his favorite subject.

 

As long as you are sure he isn't dyslexic, I'd be really hesitant to keep him from what he really enjoys/excels in for a special reading class. But I'd also make sure I was reading with him/to him as much as possible in the evenings - books about stuff he likes, even if all you (or your wife) are able to manage is 15 minutes at bedtime.  And re-evaluate in the spring or next year. (because there will be more testing. )

 

At this point they are still learning to read.  When he reaches the reading to learn stage (3rd grade or so) he will be at a disadvantage is almost all areas if he's still not reading well.  

 

If his brain is going too fast, it may help him read if he has 'distractions' - sitting upside down on the couch, having music in the background, chewing on gum or other 'safe' chewing thing, sitting under the desk rather than in a chair, bouncing a leg, etc.  Obviously some of these things can't be done at school, but some probably can be tried.

 

And I do think ceasefire makes a great point - what are you better able to help him with at home?  If you can give him more creative stuff, then do that.  If that's not your strong point, then read with him.

 

I hope you are able to figure out a way to help your son.  Also, is he one of the older or one of the younger kids in his class?  At that age, a few months do make a big difference.....

 

 

I don't think occasional standardized testing is a bad thing.  I do think that the 3 times a year, multi-day standardized testing of the same things over and over is not a good thing.  Mostly they must 'teach to the tests' and not much more.  

 

 

[Jittersthe.Clown]

And I get why the schools do it, it's the money.  Can't have a school without it.  

My son can read well, when he wants to.  We have always had story time with the kids before bed.  20 minutes every night.  These past couple weeks, we've had him read us stories and he's enjoying that.  I'm not too worried about him.  I just worry that the school will try to single kids like him out because they want to get that money.  

I feel like we need to teach the whole child, not just their math and reading skills.  Make them into great adults.  

[AlexCold]

Maybe a little late to the party, but as you know Jitters we just had our first kid, so I've been thinking about this.

 

I have no issues with standardized testing. It's impossible to create individual tests for each student. Also this allows you to see how they compare against others and see how things can change. The problem is that people usually react and are upset that their student did poorly. If that's the case, FIX IT!!! All the test does is give you data. For the school, it provides an idea of how they perform. In this case, I do not think that it's a good measure of the school.

 

In my opinion, it is our responsibilities as parents to make sure our kids are educated. Math and Reading are super important. You can't have science without math, and you can't really do anything else without reading (please no, my grandpa/dad don't read and they did just fine). So I understand trying to focus on these major areas. 

 

So back to the question...Jitters can you take care of the reading issue? If so, then do it at home. This means making sure he can succeed in a testing format as a reader. I'm sorry but the discipline of sitting down and doing it is important reading as well. If you can't do this, then I say enroll him in the program and let the school try. Children's overall success in education, imo, depends on parent involvement.

 

As for going to home schooling, as much as I think it's great because you have ultimate control on the education, I also believe that the severe lack of knowledge in dealing with social interactions and their nuances is a huge hindrance in life. I see this almost everyday with my home schooled robotics kids. While they are technically my best students in that they are the hardest working and most trustworthy, they might as well be robots themselves when it comes to social interaction. 

 

I feel like we need to teach the whole child, not just their math and reading skills.  Make them into great adults.  

 

While I agree with this, I feel too many people now focus on the other stuff instead of math/science and reading because it's much easier to focus on the "fun" stuff. 

[El Exorcisto]

Socialization will happen without the need for public schools to be involved. Clubs such as 4-H, Scouts, dance, martial arts, gym time, swimming, and various sports clubs will give my daughter as uch exposure to the thoughts, ideas, and interactions with other children as school could. It will also do it without the social castes and labels that public education has been breeding since it's inception.

 

Home schooling done poorly with the sole intent to intensely educate or worse shelter a child from the outside world is a terrible thing. Home schooling with the intent of making a more balanced, better educated, and less judgemental human being is something that can and has been done many times over. It is a matter of priorities and balance.

[AlexCold]

Socialization will happen without the need for public schools to be involved. Clubs such as 4-H, Scouts, dance, martial arts, gym time, swimming, and various sports clubs will give my daughter as uch exposure to the thoughts, ideas, and interactions with other children as school could. It will also do it without the social castes and labels that public education has been breeding since it's inception.

Home schooling done poorly with the sole intent to intensely educate or worse shelter a child from the outside world is a terrible thing. Home schooling with the intent of making a more balanced, better educated, and less judgemental human being is something that can and has been done many times over. It is a matter of priorities and balance.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but in all the students I have in my robotics club that are homeschooled I notice a difference. They all do extra activities.

Just offering an opinion. I also think that no matter the education, social castes and labels still occur. Thats just life since the beginning.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[j-squared]

 I just worry that the school will try to single kids like him out because they want to get that money.  

I feel like we need to teach the whole child, not just their math and reading skills.  Make them into great adults.  

 

The school you send your child to is only part of their overall education, not the be all of it. Plus learning is a lifelong process.

 

My daughter is a junior in high school now, and is in art classes in high school, but also goes once a week to a special art class, for additional enrichment. 

My son graduated high school last June, he was in the concert band, symphonic band, wind ensemble, jazz band, marching band, even played with the civic youth ensemble from the DSO. He recently took some money from a job and bought a guitar and is taking a lesson on that.

 

My point is that, as parents, you use whatever school you choose to send you kids to as just one tool in their overall education.

With that said, reading is the most fundamental skill. Without good reading skills and reading comprehension skills, it will make science, math, history, social studies and even art and guitar playing more difficult. Without knowing your child, I can't make any real advice of which path you should take, whether it is extra art at home and more reading at school,  or more reading at home and more art at school. However, I can say that building a solid reading foundation will help your child with everything else later on.

[Bekah]

With as many bright individuals that are found on the NF forums, I am hopeful to find some more insight from other parents with kids in school.

 

Here stateside, there are standardized tests that children are required to take and schools are required to pass in order to gain funding.  Part of a well meaning, but poorly thought out program called "No Child Left Behind".  While I get the basics of it, the reality is not all children learn the same.  Not all children are going to go to college.  Not all children want to go to college.  What frustrates me most is that they focus on Math and Reading.  These are important subjects, but the way the schools are going, it seems like these are the only important subjects.  And in a way, if they want their funding, they are.  

 

Back story time.  My son is in 1st grade.  He's bright, energetic and creative.  He loves to invent new games and work on science experiments at home.  Give him a notebook and some pencils, it will be filled by the end of the day.  He loves his art.  He is doing 3rd grade math with ease, but his reading test was poor.  Now, I live with this kid.  I've known him his whole life (Short as it has been so far), and I know what he is capable of.  The school sent something home about wanting to put him into a small group of kids who will get extra time for reading.  While this seems great (and really, it is for the most part), the first question my wife and I had was, what is this going to take the place of?  It's during regular school hours, so I was wondering if it's going to cut into something else.  So, like sensible parents, we send an email to his teachers asking.  Turns out, his creative art time is what it's going to cost.  At what point do we say no?  We haven't decided if we are going to have them put him into this program or if we will just work on his reading more at home so he can still get his art time in.  You should see his face when he shows us what he did in art that day.  It's priceless. I know he can read if he slows down and thinks about it.  I've seen it in action.  Someone mentioned he should be put on meds so he can slow down.  That will not happen.  The speed of his mind is what has shaped who he is now and what he has accomplished so far.  I'm not going to take that from him.  

 

 

So, I guess my question to you is, how do you feel about the test being the major focus of school?  Can we be doing better at raising kids who may not want to be a banker or a literary major?  I know that math and reading are important subjects.  I know you need math to be a good scientist.  You need to be able to read and write to fill out your newest patent.  What about the artists?  What about the child whose music will change lives and can't read a note of what they play?

Having a child very similar to yours but much older (she will be 14 in March) what I did was after an enormous amount of trial and error, realized that her diet and exercise and her desire ( the last only to a lesser extent, but only as she got older) played a role in her ability to do well, and she just isn't cut out for regular public education, next year she will likely repeat the 7th grade, for a 3rd time...but has won awards for her art and is extremely gifted, and can spend hours drawing and painting and crafting, but only this year did she read by choice, the only books she ever read before now were Shel Silverstein...so this year when she said she wanted to go to the library and get books to read. I practically ran to buy her a Kindle and she has been reading on her own volition for a few months, but it's the first time in her life she hasn't had to be forced to do so and take "extra" reading classes. She is on medication, but only after trying every other option and seeing the benefits of it, but if I had the option, I would take her off the meds and homeschool her and let her take art classes locally (she does in addition to school already over break times and goes to classes at the fine arts museum every summer in TX when she visits my dad) and we tried to put her in a fine art focused charter school, but they refused to accommodate her needs in her 504 plan and she was constantly under disciplinary action for forgetting detentions for being tardy or disruptive, so this year she is in an alternative school...which she hates and she only has core subjects, but they adhere to her 504 plan and do behavior modification and there are 11 students in a class vs. 30, so it's helping her to learn to moderate her own behavior and develop strategies to keep on task and appropriate social skills and impulse control (something that she has always struuggled with that your son may not bc part of it for her is being in a home where the other two people have Asperger's (me and her older brother) and make her look like a social butterfly, so she never was around typical social behavior like most kids would be) and she also had Neuropsychological testing done to measure IQ and learning capabilities and find any hidden issues that impact her learning, and she has an almost genius IQ (she is my kid after all ) but very poor processing speed, which means she has all the knowledge in her head, but cant get it out in the correct way and takes much longer than average to do even as much as she is capable, and is the poster child for ADHD and an eccentric kid...which make her awesome, but not cut out for mainstream public education. Unfortunately for her, this also has led to her being given work much below her capability because those assessments used to measure grade level are still standardized tests which she does poorly on, and she is resentful bc its too easy and the teachers wont give her harder assignments bc her test scores say she is that level, so she just doesnt do the work at all, which gives them no impetus to think she is capable of more, so I'm working on that with her now...it's always something!

Sooooo...if you have the option at all, I would homeschool him and get that testing done (maybe wait a year or two for the testing though bc he is young so the educational stuff in the testing may be less helpful than if you wait a year or two) and allow him to pursue whatever floats his boat as extra activities and put every emphasis on effort and zero on the report cards and grade levels he does or doesnt achieve. Granted if he does stay in public school and does poorly, he will get that focus on grades from elsewhere and it will probably bother him, so you may have to counteract it as best you can. I told Abby that I dont care if she brings home straight F's as long as she puts in full effort, and that schools are not designed for people like her but she has to do the best she can until she either can get her GED or graduate, then she can go be an artist or a hairdresser or an inventor or anything she wants to be and never have to try to fit in those conformist boxes of public education again. So he will probably be fine once he makes it through high school and graduates...at least I hope so, for both of our sakes...but until then, homeschooling is the only viable option I can see. I had enrolled Abby in a virtual school program but then my marriage went south and we moved out and now I am not able to homeschool her bc I have to find a job so she can eat instead. So hopefully this novel was somewhat helpful, if nothing else, I have been and am still there and he is probably going to grow into an amazing person (you are his dad after all )

[Bekah]

and addressing the social castes issue...if you let him be himself and teach him to accept differences in himself and everyone else and show him how those things are a positive in the world (which I am quite certain is something you already do) then he will grow up confident and loving and compassionate and not give a shit about the labels...Abby is totally weird (I am her mother after all ) but she embraces that and knows she is amazing and capable and awesome and could care less what other people think, and she is the girl who stands up to people twice her size defending those less socially adept kids bc she gets it, and I would much rather have that kind of kid, than one who is popular and has all the right labels from other people. But then again, I do see the value of conforming enough as an adult if you have to in order to be employed or something, so I dont have rainbow streaks in my hair anymore either, but let the kids be as weird and as much themselves as they want, even if it means wearing a paper unicorn horn every day of 6th grade and saying that its a Constitutional right bc its her "pursuit of happiness" (true story---that was one hell of a phone conversation with the principal! and that was the fine arts school, she was weirder than most of the artsy kids! lol)

but of course this is my opinion and we all are going to raise our kids how we see fit, so ignore it if you think it's not something you would find useful.