Catspaw's Simple But Not Easy Challenge

[Waldo]

After a few weeks (8-10 maybe? depends how things goes) I wanna start reverse-dieting.  Every week bumping up calories a very very moderate amount -- like maybe 50 cals/day worth per week -- and try to get my metabolism back up to something I'm happier with.  Layne Norton has some great youtube videos about this, basically how metabolism lags behind caloric intake, so jumping suddenly from cut-calories to formerly-maintenance-calories is problematic, as is no diet breaks/refeeds, etc.

Nice.

I want to see someone else do this. I'm going to be helping my wife with something of the sort coming up soon.

The last long cut I did I really tanked my metabolism (relatively speaking), from maintaining at a red hot 2800 net cal/day all the way down to maintaining at about 2300 net cal/day. I've gotten it mostly recovered now (bulking works wonders). Doing so taught me a ton and completely changed my approach to things (will never cut with a small deficit again). It takes a lot of patience to build back up your metabolism. The size of the surplus really doesn't make any difference, the only reason to use microsurplusses is to keep away weight and fat gain so that you can do it longer; time is the key variable (also true for cutting; IMHO cutting with a small deficit is horrible for you unless you only have a tiny amount to lose, the less time you are cutting the better).

[Waldo]

So glad you started the adopt a rebel movement.  I think we are getting to the point where we are really going to have to work on keeping the 'edges' alive.  And the newbies.  I mean, I didn't even notice that Anne was gone.  Or Scotticus.  And where is the lady with the long hair who was moving from east to west (Jamie??)  Can a social network like this track a negative (someone's non-presence/activity)?  And to make sure that those of us who remember when you could keep up with the entire site by watching the front page continue reaching out to new folks, and not just following each other.

 

Deep thoughts from the feline foot...

Oh with time all but a few drift away, I'm not sure others' activity plays much role outside of total beginners. I've gone through a few totally different NF social circles now, they are all gone, about like being the guy in a nursing home that's been there 20 years. Toward the end of the last challenge I did it was really starting to bother me, with each new circle I became less and less one of the guys, less and less a circle of peers. I think this is just an inherent flaw of the challenge architecture; with so much focus on beginners there is a total reliance on ad hoc organization for older social groups with no real meaningful more permanent organization.

I had the idea of "clans" so to speak (though I'm not really motivated to do anything about it), groups with like goals, experience, etc.. that don't have to be bound to rigid on topic discussion (like would be found in the bulking thread for example) or bound to individual discussion (as would be found in a challenge thread or workout log, save for the few, like Catspaw's or Laura's that tend to branch out more). The guilds are just too big and goal ambiguous, the general guild chat tends to be minimal unless claimed by a particular social group within the guild. That accountabuddies thing is somewhat along those lines, but it is totally geared toward beginners.

This site is odd, it probably has the highest turnover of any message board I've ever seen, so few stick around. There definitely is more to it than 'falling off the wagon', though that certainly plays a role.

Anyway enough ranting about how all my friends are gone.

[forkboy]

Nice.

I want to see someone else do this. I'm going to be helping my wife with something of the sort coming up soon.

The last long cut I did I really tanked my metabolism (relatively speaking), from maintaining at a red hot 2800 net cal/day all the way down to maintaining at about 2300 net cal/day. I've gotten it mostly recovered now (bulking works wonders). Doing so taught me a ton and completely changed my approach to things (will never cut with a small deficit again). It takes a lot of patience to build back up your metabolism. The size of the surplus really doesn't make any difference, the only reason to use microsurplusses is to keep away weight and fat gain so that you can do it longer; time is the key variable (also true for cutting; IMHO cutting with a small deficit is horrible for you unless you only have a tiny amount to lose, the less time you are cutting the better).

 

So if you would never cut with a small deficit again, would you have advice if you still need to cut a lot?  I am currently ~27% BF and would like to get to ~15% BF and have been doing a reasonably small deficit as I received advice that doing large deficits would also break my metabolism.  So would you do IF or are you suggesting something else.

 

Sorry for the hijack!

[forkboy]

Oh with time all but a few drift away, I'm not sure others' activity plays much role outside of total beginners. I've gone through a few totally different NF social circles now, they are all gone, about like being the guy in a nursing home that's been there 20 years. Toward the end of the last challenge I did it was really starting to bother me, with each new circle I became less and less one of the guys, less and less a circle of peers. I think this is just an inherent flaw of the challenge architecture; with so much focus on beginners there is a total reliance on ad hoc organization for older social groups with no real meaningful more permanent organization.

I had the idea of "clans" so to speak (though I'm not really motivated to do anything about it), groups with like goals, experience, etc.. that don't have to be bound to rigid on topic discussion (like would be found in the bulking thread for example) or bound to individual discussion (as would be found in a challenge thread or workout log, save for the few, like Catspaw's or Laura's that tend to branch out more). The guilds are just too big and goal ambiguous, the general guild chat tends to be minimal unless claimed by a particular social group within the guild. That accountabuddies thing is somewhat along those lines, but it is totally geared toward beginners.

This site is odd, it probably has the highest turnover of any message board I've ever seen, so few stick around. There definitely is more to it than 'falling off the wagon', though that certainly plays a role.

Anyway enough ranting about how all my friends are gone.

 

I’d join your clan.    

 

I know it is not (the overlord?) data and just anecdotal, but I would agree there may be some more nuance here.  I am not a complete newbie (as this is my 4th challenge-which takes me back to August, but maybe still a newbie by some people's definition?), but I find there is this weird hinterland between newbie and those of you more experienced folks that would make it easy for people to drop out.  In fact, I am aware of another forum that several folks I followed recently left for looking for less “points†and more advice and learning.  The "adopt a newbie" approach is great for newbies and allows for "mentoring" and branching out for you more experienced folks if the relationship lasts beyond the first challenge, but there are folks like me that are more in-between too.  I come back mostly to learn and I creep on the more experienced people's pages (like this awesome one--All Hail Catspaw!) to do my learning.  I have an awesome accountability buddies group that of course cheers me on in my challenges, but we are all of relatively similar experience and stages in our journey and therefore missing large chunks of information to round out approaches that will work best for us, so discussion mostly revolves around cheering and less about approaches and techniques.   If it was just cheering others on with these groups, then I probably would end up leaving at some point too.  A lot of the discussions with more seasoned folks seem to occur among themselves, so creeping to learn is really the only "in" to these discussion and if you are not the "pushy" type it feels awkward for sure.  I too would be curious to see the data, because my gut sense is a lot more people drop out after challenges 3, 4, and 5 than just 1 or 2, but that of course is pure speculation on my part.

 

I too think it is the architecture of the challenge approach that partially creates this chasm.  I like your idea of clans as a nice remedy to addressing this gap since there are so few classes these groups are still pretty large.  You could join clans anywhere along your experience level spectrum and be invited into clans too.  Ideally they would have a mix of expertise and solid clan leaders that could help create that sense of community.  I am not sure accountability buddies are just for newbies and could fill this role if clan leaders were willing to step up, but again the key here would be to have a mix of new, moderately experienced, and more seasoned folks all together, just with similar interests, goals, or approaches.  My group tends to be all on our 4^th challenge and we all travel in a pack through each one.

 

One idea might be making clan a sub-unit of the class now that this place is so big, so say related to dietary approaches or other distinctions in style or approach.  I see lots of debate about macro approaches vs. paleo, as one example that could be different themes within different classes.  I am spit-balling...  

 

Just throwing out my two cents, and also trying to avoid my own little hinterland.  

 

Sound too much like Eeyore?  If so sorry, not my intention.

[Latsu Swagneel]

 

All Hail Catspaw!

 

Agreed.

All hail Catspaw!

[catspaw]

It takes a lot of patience to build back up your metabolism. The size of the surplus really doesn't make any difference, the only reason to use microsurplusses is to keep away weight and fat gain so that you can do it longer; time is the key variable (also true for cutting; IMHO cutting with a small deficit is horrible for you unless you only have a tiny amount to lose, the less time you are cutting the better).

Yeah I’m tempted to make this a quite longterm thing, if I can do it right. My hope is that I can start with my current 1450/1750 and over the course of 8 weeks, sloooowly bring it up to 1850/2150 and then hold it there for a little while (6-8 weeks) and see what happens.

Ideally I’d gain a little bit during the first 8 week increase (though hopefully minimally) but then NOT gain during the subsequent holding. More realistically, I’d probably gain even during that second period, but hopefully the gain itself would slow down as that gradually became the new maintenance.

Then I’d have to see where I was. If I was feeling confident, I’d totally be up for continuing to push it upwards and see what I can get away with. Or maybe it won’t work at all and I’ll put on a ton of fluff and I’ll have to reconsider the whole strategy. Not sure. But I want to try.

[catspaw]

More thoughts in reply to Waldo and forkboy re: community stuff soon.

[catspaw]

Wed, Jan 8th - Food Log

 

PWO: PWO shake + banana

Lunch: Chicken breast, rice and roasted broccoli with bhindi masala

Snack: Giant dill pickle, big bag of carrots, and some trail mix

Dinner: Leftover lamb biryani

 

Macros (C/F/P): 197c / 60f / 146p = 1869 cals.

 

Went over again today.  Starting tomorrow I'm going to try to get back on track.  Two days does not a pattern make, but breaking any potential-pattern now.

[scotticus]

Nice.

I want to see someone else do this. I'm going to be helping my wife with something of the sort coming up soon.

The last long cut I did I really tanked my metabolism (relatively speaking), from maintaining at a red hot 2800 net cal/day all the way down to maintaining at about 2300 net cal/day. I've gotten it mostly recovered now (bulking works wonders). Doing so taught me a ton and completely changed my approach to things (will never cut with a small deficit again). It takes a lot of patience to build back up your metabolism. The size of the surplus really doesn't make any difference, the only reason to use microsurplusses is to keep away weight and fat gain so that you can do it longer; time is the key variable (also true for cutting; IMHO cutting with a small deficit is horrible for you unless you only have a tiny amount to lose, the less time you are cutting the better).

 

I'm a bit torn on this.  I suffer from a bad case of skinny-fatness - sucks but it is what it is.  Anything even resembling a bulk just chucks a bunch of weight where I don't want it, and little muscle to speak of that all gets lost when I try to lean out again.  So for the next little while I'm aiming for lean as fwark, followed by carefully measured microplusses to facilitate growth.  It's a long road to be certain, but I think it's the only way that I'll make progress from here.

 

Oh with time all but a few drift away, I'm not sure others' activity plays much role outside of total beginners. I've gone through a few totally different NF social circles now, they are all gone, about like being the guy in a nursing home that's been there 20 years. Toward the end of the last challenge I did it was really starting to bother me, with each new circle I became less and less one of the guys, less and less a circle of peers. I think this is just an inherent flaw of the challenge architecture; with so much focus on beginners there is a total reliance on ad hoc organization for older social groups with no real meaningful more permanent organization.

I had the idea of "clans" so to speak (though I'm not really motivated to do anything about it), groups with like goals, experience, etc.. that don't have to be bound to rigid on topic discussion (like would be found in the bulking thread for example) or bound to individual discussion (as would be found in a challenge thread or workout log, save for the few, like Catspaw's or Laura's that tend to branch out more). The guilds are just too big and goal ambiguous, the general guild chat tends to be minimal unless claimed by a particular social group within the guild. That accountabuddies thing is somewhat along those lines, but it is totally geared toward beginners.

This site is odd, it probably has the highest turnover of any message board I've ever seen, so few stick around. There definitely is more to it than 'falling off the wagon', though that certainly plays a role.

Anyway enough ranting about how all my friends are gone.

 

I've noticed this, too.  Granted, I vanished for a year or so (for very good reasons, mind you) myself so I can't really judge.  But I've noticed that there aren't too many of my NF besties around any more.  I've found with a lot of my internet-nourished obsessions I'm much less inclined to participate in forums once I've reached a certain level of competence/understanding.  I think this is pretty common, hence our dilemma.  

 

Beginners are clearly the bread and butter of the forums (and clearly Steve's primary target audience as well) and I think that's great.  The majority of the more experienced will continue to disappear, but I see that as an opportunity for the wise old men and women (rebels?!?) that remain to pay what they've learned forward.  At least that's how I hope to approach it.

 

That said, it would be beneficial to have a space to cavort with those that are like minded and understand that there are much more important things to be concerned with than getting Vibrams vs. minimal runners...

 

I'd join the clan, fo shizz...

[chammy]

Every challenge, I think to myself... this will be the time that I keep up with catspaw's thread. 

 

Then I get here and there's already 5 pages to read. Harumph. 

That is exactly how I feel.

[Pallas Athena]

Re: the forum turnover. I think this may be a YMMV situation. I've been on the boards for about a year and a half. Maybe that's not long enough to compare with some of you more experienced folks. Anyway, while I've seen some people disappear, I've also found a pretty regular group to hang with. Most of us have some goals in common and others that diverge, but what I look for is a positive attitude and sense of personal responsibility. Folks who take responsibility for their lot in life seem to be more stable than those who feel at the mercy of their circumstances.

 

I also check my friends list at the beginning of each challenge. If someone hasn't posted a challenge thread, I message them to see what's going on. Sometimes it helps, and sometimes it doesn't. I also try to friend at least one newbie in the guild during each challenge.

 

I'd hate to see more complexity added to the forums overall, but what about a new guild called something like "Masters Guild" or "Boss Forum" with something in the description to let people know it's for advanced discussions, not newbie questions? Rebels getting more advanced would be able to lurk for information until they felt at a level to participate actively.

[catspaw]

The shuttle that I take every morning leaves in darkness and arrives in the daytime.  At some point during the 90 min ride, we are treated to a sunrise over the bay, reflected against the morning clouds into a vast painted landscape in the sky.  But not this morning.  This morning, it was raining.

 

My seat of choice is on the second floor of the double-decker bus, right up at the front so that I’m almost on top of the traffic, red lights as far as the eye can see.  And as I listened to the clockwork hum of windshield wipers and stared at all those red lights of stopped cars, I started to think about driving.

 

Humans and many other animals have a special part of our brain specifically designed for tracking moving objects.  Here’s an experiment, to illustrate: hold your head steady and slowly move your finger in front of your vision from left to right, tracking it with your eyes,  Your eyes are able to move in a smooth track as it follows the object.  Now attempt to move your eyes from left to right, slowly, without your finger there.  Try to make your eyes path as smooth as possible.  You’ll find that you end up doing a series of “hops†rather than a continuous line.  Our ability to track objects is a special hack added to our vision, not a part of the vision mechanism itself.

 

And this, of course, is just one of the brain’s mechanisms that allows us to drive in traffic.  We know where the cars around us are now and where they’ll be in just a moment’s time.  It’s something we don’t have to even think about, the math just happens inside our heads.

 

So much of what we do every day, the tools we’ve built and the structures we’ve created, have been built around our strengths and limitations as big gooey hunks of flesh.

 

Our shuttle goes under some overpasses, huge concrete structures that tower above us, with huge heavy cars atop of even that, and I start wondering about the footprint of us on the world.  Not in terms of environmental impact, though that’s definitely a thing, but in terms of the amount of change that each one of us imparts upon history.  Someone created that cement pillar.  Someone put the tires on the truck that drove it here, or made the machine that put the tires on the truck.  Someone made the sandwich that that guy had for lunch.  Someone made the bread.

 

One of my deepest fears is described by Shelley’s poem Ozymandias.  The poem’s intent is supposed to be about the permanence of art compared to all else, but with a deeper understanding of Ramses II than Shelley ever had, it fills me with a different fear, about just how small and inconsequential even the most powerful amongst us are against the unforgiving sweep of time.  It’s difficult for modern man to comprehend just how long the legacy and just how unrivaled he was in his time.  And now his kingdom has fallen to sand and the faintest whisper of fable.

 

But at the same time that I shiver to think how inconsequential each life is, in aggregate we shape everything around us.  The cement pillar of the overpass again.  Not only was there an immense chain of hands necessary to get it here, but there was an immense chain through time too.  Someone’s great grandmother worked up the courage to ask his great grandfather out to a dance.  Someone ducked at just the right second in battle, and avoided being killed by the war axe.  Someone was lazy when dying the bricks for the wall, allowing the invaders to take the city.  So many small decisions, huge choices, and flash reactions all came together, summed like a giant possibility filter, to create the world around us.  What if he hadn’t caught a fish that night?  What if she’d never slapped him?

 

We are individually so insignificant and yet the aggregate of the very small changes each of us make shapes all of history to come.

 

It makes me wonder what it would look like if we could line up the entire timeline of someone’s life and then highlight the various sparks that really mattered: the points in his life that would have an impact that lasts beyond any living memory of him.  Brilliant yellow stars along a timeline of grey.  Though some of these points would be guessable — any action that leads to the creation of descendants is a strong candidate — most could not possibly be foreseen.  And so many of the decisions that we consider to be important would sit in idle gray when examined through the distant lens of time.

 

There’s a radiolab episode where they consider what it would be like to rearrange someone’s life timeline to aggregate all similar activities.  30 years sleeping.  2 years in the bathroom.  62 days drying yourself off from the shower.  7 months laughing.  4 months crying.  Imagine reliving your life with all the similar activities shoved together.  Would you be spending weeks on the scale, fretting about what it said?  How many years of your life would you be eating in full bliss?  How many eating and feeling guilty about it?  How many eating and not even noticing that that’s what you’re doing?

 

Placed all in a row like that, it seems silly that I would spend so much time worrying and so little time flipping tires and laughing with friends in the rain.  And realizing just how unpredictable those gold stars of consequence are along our grey timeline, it seems like the best strategy is simply to sit back and enjoy.  My cog might disappear in a generation or two, or might have a universe-shaping impact.  But it’s not the big decisions that I make that will do that shaping.  It’s the tree branch I step on, or the kiss I brave, or the smile I share with a stranger.  Unpredictable.

 

When our shuttle finally arrives, the rainy clouds part, giving way to a huge californian sun, and I pack up my laptop to leave.  This is when I realize I’ve written up quite the ramble.  I select all, and hover over the delete key.  Is there a yellow star on my timeline?  Should I delete this or post it?  How much time will I spend in my life hesitating?

 

Too long.  Submit.

[bigm141414]

WALL O TEXT!

 

Too long.  Submit.

 

 

Ain't got time to be reading such long posts! There's livin to be done! 

 

*...goes off in serach of adventure...*

[CourtnieMarie]

LOVE that. very glad you posted it. similar to my own thoughts about life in general recently. thank you

[catspaw]

Thu, Jan 9th - Workout Log

 

Bunch o' work on power clean progressions, based on these videos.

Probably threw around the bar 50 or so times in total.  Enough to tire me out a bit.

 

Front Squat

  45 x 10

  45 x 10

  45 x 10

  65 x 10

  75 x 10

  80 x 7

  85 x 7

  90 x 7 [PR for reps]

  95 x 5 [PR]

 

BB rows (w/ voodoo)

  65 x 10

  65 x 8

  65 x 7

 

These were haaard with my shoulder all voodoo'd.  Which I guess shows how much shoulder / little lat I tend to use.

 

4 sets of:

  - Lat pulldown @ 85 lbs (12, 10, 7, 7 reps)

  - Squats x 20

  - Pushups x 15

  - Lunges x 10/leg

 

3 sets of:

  - 30 sec side bridge per side

  - 30 sec rest

 

Hot n sweaty mess -- looking forward to my rest day tomorrow.

[catspaw]

Ain't got time to be reading such long posts! There's livin to be done! 

 

*...goes off in serach of adventure...*

 

[PrincessHeather]

Thanks for sharing Catspaw, that was lovely, and sort of soothing on a busy Thursday morning

[nightlight]

not too long.

insightful is never too long.

[EmCee]

not too long.

insightful is never too long.

This.

You are forever putting my life into perspective and for that, and for you, I am thankful.

[Pallas Athena]

Wow. Nice. Good decision to keep.

[ChristArtist]

I like the golden star of keep and submit! Thank you.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Red1263]

That was a rather fascinating and insightful way to look at life. I thank you Catspaw for this.

[catspaw]

Awwww you guys are all sweet, thank you <3, but you shouldn't encourage such meandering rants, heehee.

[Brometheus]

Awwww you guys are all sweet, thank you <3, but you shouldn't encourage such meandering rants, heehee.

 

As a nerd who loves the written word, I appreciate your rants. They make me happy. Thank you!

[Morrigainz]

No self-deprecation! That was an awesome post.