Introverts, Social Misfits and the Terror of Talking to People

[Machete]

Here's one of the reasons why I'm not a big label guy, but why I also think labels are necessary (and why self-diagnosis tends to batardize and devalue its social credibility in general). Yes, I do believe everyone around me is crazy. A label allows me to look inward and say "maybe it's me after all".

[DrVornoff]

I love the Green brothers.

 

On a somewhat tangential note, I really, really hate how every pseudo-intellectual malcontent (GamerGate, I'm looking at you) misuses the term "projection."  Just because you call someone an asshole doesn't mean you're projecting.  You are not automatically projecting when you criticize their bad behavior.  These are usually the same people who dismiss scientific literature in the fields of sociology and psychology as "soft science."  To quote one of my favorite movies, "You can't win against fools."

[TMedina]

Heh.  It might not be an accurate assessment, but it is a handy, self-encapsulated rebuttal and passive-aggressive response.

 

A more high-brow version of, "I know you are, but what about me?"

[Machete]

Maybe it's just me, but this appears to be a lot more common than it seems.

 

[humanperson832]

Happy Christmas, y'all.

We are hosting this family tomorrow and Monday. My husband commented that he likes us hosting now because we can just be worker bees in the background while people socialize rather than us having to sit there and chat. He had a good point with that. I'm sure I'll still lock myself in our bedroom for a breather at some point each day though.

 

No lie, there were probably 20 people at my folks' house for Christmas dinner and I was freaking out. I had to retreat to a quiet bedroom upstairs to just avoid a panic attack from all the competing energies around me.

[LadyGrey]

On top of a house full of guests, I got sick. But it was a good reason to hide in my bedroom with the door shut.  oh wait, now that I am feeling better I still hide in my bedroom! D: It's a good thing my in-laws are laid back folk, they don't seem to mind and my husband gets a load of family time. I had a co-worker ask me if I still had guests and was "entertaining" every evening. I nearly fell out of my chair. It's one thing to "entertain" for an evening, but for 3 weeks! That's a noooope, lol. I'd be dead and drained! I already feel like a walking zombie.

[Machete]

[redwoodfog]

Hah, the last shirt. Sometimes I get emboldened and act just a tiny bit assertive, but then get all spooked like "oh god, was that bitchy?" and try to back track.

 

The last few months I have been more reclusive than usual, and it's definitely made it harder when I do go out. I start feeling really awkward in my skin, not sure what to do with my hands, can't stand up straight. Hate checking out at the store because it triggers this insane internal dialogue about the appropriate amount of eye contact to maintain. (Am I doing normal right?) It is tempting to just avoid more and more, but that only makes it harder when I do eventually have to interact with people.

[TMedina]

Honestly, "bitchy" is one of those judgement calls - people who object to you being assertive will call it bitchiness out of spite or rancor rather than any real, objective assessment.

 

And, frankly, sometimes being bitchy is not a bad thing.

[DrVornoff]

"Bitchiness" is typically just thrown around as an excuse by people who get called out on their bullshit.  There are a number of insults that stem from that.  It's generally easy to tell when you've genuinely stepped out of line or when the person addressing you is just pouting about the fact that society doesn't give them a blank check for douchebaggery.  When I started standing up for myself, a lot of people didn't like it.  I learned quickly that these are the same sort of people who will try to sound smarter by claiming to be libertarians and free speech absolutists.  The kind of people angry at the world because it asks "too much" of them, like having to pay taxes, not speed through school zones and wear pants.

[Hit]

To be fair, wearing pants is balls and i try to not do so as often as possible

[redwoodfog]

Honestly, "bitchy" is one of those judgement calls - people who object to you being assertive will call it bitchiness out of spite or rancor rather than any real, objective assessment.

 

"Bitchiness" is typically just thrown around as an excuse by people who get called out on their bullshit. 

 

Totally true. I just have so much self-doubt that if someone tells me (or hints) that I was bitchy when I was really just being healthily assertive, I will apologize and scurry back into my demure, soft-spoken hole! Working on it...

[kaelvan]

I apologize for apologising. I've been yelled at for saying sorry too much

[LadyGrey]

I want that first shirt!

[redwoodfog]

I apologize for apologising. I've been yelled at for saying sorry too much

 

Yeah, I know that one! Though anyone who yells at you for apologizing (even if it's not warranted) is a schmuck.

[Elastigirl]

Yeah, I know that one! Though anyone who yells at you for apologizing (even if it's not warranted) is a schmuck.

Agreed-bad reason to yell at someone. However, I do have a friend I tease because she apologizes for everything. Like, if we are supposed to meet and I'm late she apologizes  

[Machete]

"Bitchiness" is typically just thrown around as an excuse by people who get called out on their bullshit.  There are a number of insults that stem from that.  It's generally easy to tell when you've genuinely stepped out of line or when the person addressing you is just pouting about the fact that society doesn't give them a blank check for douchebaggery.  When I started standing up for myself, a lot of people didn't like it.  I learned quickly that these are the same sort of people who will try to sound smarter by claiming to be libertarians and free speech absolutists.  The kind of people angry at the world because it asks "too much" of them, like having to pay taxes, not speed through school zones and wear pants.

 

Speaking of which...

 

Personally however, I don't think it's at all easy to tell when I've stepped out of line (mostly because I don't know where the lines are). I can probably speak for quite a few other awkward weirdos here. This is probably why (besides not having a standard of how I should be treated by others) I seem to be treated like shit in general. I'm either called a "dick" or a "pussy"--polar opposites on the same spectrum, and neither is appropriate in social settings. (That or I just always happen to find myself in the company of bigots, racists, homophobes, and ableists, which I really hope is not the case.) I have an apology ready to be dispensed at all times; I'm living in a society and I'm the outlier. I have to play by their rules. When in Rome...

[Bekah]

Speaking of which...

 

Personally however, I don't think it's at all easy to tell when I've stepped out of line (mostly because I don't know where the lines are). I can probably speak for quite a few other awkward weirdos here. This is probably why (besides not having a standard of how I should be treated by others) I seem to be treated like shit in general. I'm either called a "dick" or a "pussy"--polar opposites on the same spectrum, and neither is appropriate in social settings. (That or I just always happen to find myself in the company of bigots, racists, homophobes, and ableists, which I really hope is not the case.) I have an apology ready to be dispensed at all times; I'm living in a society and I'm the outlier. I have to play by their rules. When in Rome...

I dunno...I guess i just dont interact with people in any meaningful way in the "real' world, bc I rarely have to apologize for things to anyone., so either they don't tell me I am being an asshole or a total weirdo, or I fake it well enough that only those who go deeper than the superficial have any clue (I think it's this bc the people I DO get shit from, are the people I interact with on a deeper level) although there are times when J has apologized to people on my behalf, bc I had no idea I did anything worth apologizing for! LOL! I may not ever apologize even if I did know, bc I'm just not nice enough to people I don't care about in my real life, I mean I guess if I did something bad enough to make them cry, maybe...but a small oversight, well I suppose I'm just an asshole then, but they are probably oversensitive as well (my general view of the Neurotypical is they are oversensitive and dramatic almost to a person).

However, online...it's very different bc well, I *think* the average Joe is more open and willing to go deeper into their brains to talk to people they dont know as well, so you can have a deeper more meaningful conversation, which for me is essential if I am going to give half a fuck about someone as more than a breathing bag of bones...so I feel more connected to people I know online. Although most times, the people I know in my real life, would never realize that, or they dont care enough for it to matter maybe? 

 

[Machete]

I dunno...I guess i just dont interact with people in any meaningful way in the "real' world, bc I rarely have to apologize for things to anyone., so either they don't tell me I am being an asshole or a total weirdo, or I fake it well enough that only those who go deeper than the superficial have any clue (I think it's this bc the people I DO get shit from, are the people I interact with on a deeper level) although there are times when J has apologized to people on my behalf, bc I had no idea I did anything worth apologizing for! LOL! I may not ever apologize even if I did know, bc I'm just not nice enough to people I don't care about in my real life, I mean I guess if I did something bad enough to make them cry, maybe...but a small oversight, well I suppose I'm just an asshole then, but they are probably oversensitive as well (my general view of the Neurotypical is they are oversensitive and dramatic almost to a person).

However, online...it's very different bc well, I *think* the average Joe is more open and willing to go deeper into their brains to talk to people they dont know as well, so you can have a deeper more meaningful conversation, which for me is essential if I am going to give half a fuck about someone as more than a breathing bag of bones...so I feel more connected to people I know online. Although most times, the people I know in my real life, would never realize that, or they dont care enough for it to matter maybe?

 

I really see it as inconsequential whenever I inadvertently offend someone. I had no intentions of doing so anyway and therefore have no plans based on how someone else reacts, so it does little to change my scheduled activities for the day. From a Utilitarian point of view though I think a ready apology on my part helps make the world a better place, even by just a little bit, by soothing what I may personally perceive as butthurt. One phrase, I believe, is a small price to pay on my part to increase the total happiness in the world. I technically don't even have to mean it. The caveat, however, is that the offended party usually must ask for said apology, otherwise I have no idea when I should be apologizing for something--I think this characteristic is what makes people mistake my brother and I for sociopaths. I believe that we are, in essence, nice people; we just have no idea how to be. (Or how to appear to be to society at large.)

 

Usually happens a lot like this. Really funny when it's not happening to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPnJ2tR2h_M

[justtrish]

Another autistic person here!  The world can use more people like us - high intelligence, low emotion - not likely to fly off the handle unless you mess with our routines and stuff.  I really believe autism is evolutionary.  The next step for humans.

[Bekah]

Another autistic person here!  The world can use more people like us - high intelligence, low emotion - not likely to fly off the handle unless you mess with our routines and stuff.  I really believe autism is evolutionary.  The next step for humans.

I agree, but from experience, the NTs of the world, get kinda pissed when you say that  

[Machete]

Another autistic person here!  The world can use more people like us - high intelligence, low emotion - not likely to fly off the handle unless you mess with our routines and stuff.  I really believe autism is evolutionary.  The next step for humans.

 

Personally, I don't think so. I think it's more of a divergence in adaptation and evolution. Some have theorized that our very intricate human social structure, besides our ability to sweat, is the greatest advantage we have over the other animals in nature. We are social animals by nature, and we probably wouldn't be where we are now if it weren't for that. We are such natural socialites that even our toddlers can kick adult chimps' asses when it comes to social games. Yes, I think Autism is a bit of a life handicap, and Autistics are just dealt a disadvantaged hand for no good reason. It's like playing life on Hard Mode, and honestly if I were offered a cure I would have taken it. (Not now though. I think it's too late for that. I'm already set in my ways. Besides, according to Jenny McCarthy, there is already a cure. Haha.) I think the fact that babies are at an equal or higher level of social functioning as I am is pretty damn depressing.

 

 

However, I also do not think that Autism is an evolutionary glitch, or a mistake in natural selection. It's just a different set of quests, usually with more difficulty mostly because of the lack of NPC support, assigned to certain individuals. The solitary forager hypothesis suggests that prehistoric Autistics turned out to be pretty good self-sufficient survivors. While everyone else was busy trying to do the monkey dance in order to establish who the alpha was, the Autistic caveman was busy obsessing over tools, trapping techniques, animal behavior (i.e. modern day "Special Interests"), and just generally being Rambo. Because in order for a solitary animal to survive in the wild, it would have to at least be pretty bad ass at something. Autism is apparently highly inheritable, and that is probably why the genes haven't been bred out yet.

 

Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god. Or a Beast God.

 

[kaelvan]

So I put talk to a stranger a day for my 6-week challenge. I have no clue what to talk to them about. What do normal people talk about? Weather? The news? Batman? Maybe not Batman. Or maybe they do? Help!

[Bekah]

So I put talk to a stranger a day for my 6-week challenge. I have no clue what to talk to them about. What do normal people talk about? Weather? The news? Batman? Maybe not Batman. Or maybe they do? Help!

Weather, Pets, Jobs, Fitness (if at the gym) anything current (a movie, book, tv show...they may not care but they might reply something you can respond to) chit chat is like verbal ping pong...they say something, you say something related, they say something about that, you respond to that...one or two sentences at a time, if they stop responding quickly, usually after 3-4 sentences for people you dont know, or when you are done buying your groceries or whatever at a store/eatery, then say "have a great day" and go on your way. If you (or they) have something Batman related (like wearing a Batman shirt) you can say something about Batman, but otherwise not unless the topic is mentioned by them first.

[TMedina]

The weather.  Something hot and current, but not necessarily controversial.  Maybe something they are carrying, or wearing: "oh, I just love your (watch, purse, shoes, backpack, whatever)!  How do you like it?  Where did you get it?"

 

There is the added complication of mainstream, binary sexual assumptions - straight men are may assume you're trying to hit on them.  Women are more likely to chat.  Granted, we know there is more than the binary pairing, but it's something to be aware of.

 

EtA: Practice asking leading questions, or open-ended questions.  Avoid anything that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no".  A question like "what do you think about (random topic)?" will get more of a discussion going with the subject thinking, and offering a detailed response, which in turn provides more potential "hooks" or avenues to take the conversation.  Compared to something simple like "do you like the weather today?" which can end with a simple yes/no response.  And then you're stuck looking for another subject to discuss.