ABS

[ormaybemidgets]

There's gotta be a way to get a nice stomach! But what is the way???

I've been doing abs stuff FOREVER. And then in December, I really solidified it into this plan:

25 crunches

25 bicycles

25 crunches

25 leg raises

25 crunches

25 bicycles

25 crunchesWhich turn into this one:

25 bicycles

25 crunches

25 bicycles

25 leg raises

25 bicycles

25 crunches

25 bicyclesAnd I did that until around April 3, when I transitioned into weight machines and then into BBWW.

But what is the deal? I am NOT SEEING RESULTS. There has been some improvement in my waist - like between chest and stomach - but no change at all in my stomach. If I were prioritizing areas of my body, stomach would be #1. Should I go back to the crunch cycle? Is there other stuff I should be doing? Right now my strength workout is:

BBWW

squats

lunges

pushups

planks

side planksAnd I know that even these should work if I tighten my core while I'm doing them, but it's tight, and it ain't workin.

Any help is appreciated!

[Guest tparker]

The issue is you probably already have abs. However they are hidden underneath other layers.

For men, abs start popping when you reach around 9% body fat, for females, 15% or so.

You can't target fat loss, it has to come off all over the body. Once you get down in fat, it will start to show. (Also assuning not a massive amount of weight loss to where your skin hangs on you like old baggy clothes.

[Guest tparker]

As for what you should be doing. Keep up the harder lifts, add in some cardio, and make sure you are burning calories without going into deficit.

"You want to know where you were in the past, look at your body. Want to know where you will be in the future, look to your mind."

It will take time.

[ormaybemidgets]

Many reactions:

1. WOAH. That is a small amount of body fat. I'm not talking about abs abs (I would sell my soul to look like this), but more... flat stomach. Or flat-ish, at least.

2. Which ones are the "hard lifts"? All of them? And yup, cardio's in there too (running), I just didn't include it because I didn't think it was relevant here.

3. What is the "time" it takes? I once had a friend tell me that the "time" was measured in years.

4. Also yes, I have considered that I'm doing alright but my nice stomach is hidden under my not-nice stomach. Especially because when I do the abs workout with a friend, she's always tired and in pain and I'm not. But then I thought - am I not in pain because I'm doing them wrong? But it'd be pretty hard to do bicycles wrong...

[Guest tparker]

1. Flat stomach and abs are different. I'm sitting at about 8% body fat right now, so you can see that for estimate definition in males. And those goals are very achievable with the right diet. I may be slightly off in percentages for females, but you do have to cut it down to get flat stomach.

2. Harder lifts is just what it says. If you are setting a "number" goal, versus an "exhaustion" goal, then you need to work harder. Starting out, exhaustion is not the point, as proper form is needed, however when you are used to that, and still not working out and pushing yourself hard, then you are doing yourself no good. Running is very relevant.

3. Without knowing exactly where you stand in terms of height, weight, body fat percentages, measurements there is no way I can give any sort of estimate. Plus the other variables involved such as diet, metabolism and activity level, all matter here. But it never will happen overnight, weeks, or even months. It takes a lot of changes, here and there, that add up in the long run.

4. Pain is different things. Again, it's not quite as simple as that. Pain can be bones and joints, which of course means doing something extremely wrong. However if you've been doing the same workout, no changes, your body isn't building there.

Good example is in martial arts, and some of the basic stances we have to get into. I've been practicing for almost 3 years now, and can hold our basic stances for hours on end with no pain, but take someone that has only done it for 6 months, and they are shaking in pain in about 5 minutes. Guy is same body shape and size, just not conditioned to it.

When lifting and running, basically if you blood is pumping hard, you're not getting a good layer of sweat, and don't feel some twinge of soreness the next day, you are not working to your capability, and need to knock it up.

[jtc]

You're probably not in pain because your abs sound wicked strong, especially if you did that routine.

As tparker said most of the work in getting your abs to show up is really about dropping your body fat. But. There are actually two different abdominal muscles, the rectus abdominis, which is the six-pack part that crunches and most exercises target, and the transverse abominis, which is behind the other one and which is what really does the work of pulling your gut in and pushing your abs out. Sticking with the squats and deadlifts (the "hard lifts," I think) will definitely help here, as will weighted crunches and vacuums. Other things that will help: time and lots and lots of patience.

[Guest tparker]

And in non-reply to your direct questions. For most people, specially losing weight and getting into shape, I don't recommend ab workouts at all. I know Steve has posted on it several times, and I am of the firm belief that the total body weights are better for you.

Squats, Deadlifts, Lunges, Pull-ups, Chin-ups, Push-ups, Dips are the go to exercises.

Ab work itself, will do nothing directly for the stomach fat loss, as it has fat deposits to pull out of everywhere.

Only people I ever recommend doing straight ab exercises, are those that have shed the weight and trying to pop the abs a bit more, and those that have to be able to tighten specific muscle groups at a specific time (martial artists, to prevent a kick going through the belly to the spine, rugby players, etc..)

[67alecto]

There's gotta be a way to get a nice stomach! But what is the way???

I've been doing abs stuff FOREVER.

This is the problem right here. You've been doing the same thing, with no increase in intensity. Your body is used to it, so the benefits you saw from it when you started out have dwindled. In the beginning, this might have been good for a 500 calorie deficit, but it's probably dropped closer to 200 calories, which is even easier to accidentally undo.

Look at it this way - if you do the same thing everytime, how will you get better? The Bodyweight exercises are the right place to start, but you will need to push yourself. Once you can get a circuit done, you then need to push yourself to do them a little faster each time to ensure that you are working harder and not getting in a maintenance rut.

[Suse]

these guys are way more knowledgeable than I will ever pretend to be (heck I wont even pretend, I'm not) but yeah, I reckon those rock hard gorgeous abs of yours are hiding under the layer of fat. That's a diet issue. I found that dropping back on bread, rice and pasta really helped me lose the stomach fat. I dont see any abs yet but I dont see a big layer of blubber anymore either (just a little layer :roll: )

[karassa]

these guys are way more knowledgeable than I will ever pretend to be (heck I wont even pretend, I'm not) but yeah, I reckon those rock hard gorgeous abs of yours are hiding under the layer of fat. That's a diet issue. I found that dropping back on bread, rice and pasta really helped me lose the stomach fat. I dont see any abs yet but I dont see a big layer of blubber anymore either (just a little layer :roll: )

This is what I did to get a flat tummy. Changing your diet will work much faster than just doing tons of cardio. I hate the word "diet", but if you try eating Zone, you could likely see results in a few months. You have to *REALLY* stick with it though, no cheating, and you have to realize it is a complete lifestyle change; forever changing your eating habits. The minute you go back to your old eating habits, you'll go right back to where you were before.

[67alecto]

these guys are way more knowledgeable than I will ever pretend to be (heck I wont even pretend, I'm not) but yeah, I reckon those rock hard gorgeous abs of yours are hiding under the layer of fat. That's a diet issue. I found that dropping back on bread, rice and pasta really helped me lose the stomach fat. I dont see any abs yet but I dont see a big layer of blubber anymore either (just a little layer :roll: )

yep. visible abs come from a low enough body fat percentage. Saw a quote, but can't remember if it was from Steve or someone else:

"How low does my BF% need to be? Look in the mirror. Can you see your abs? No? It isn't low enough."

[jacobmovingfwd]

Yup, that's from Steve: http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/01 ... -holy-abs/

[ormaybemidgets]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the responses! I actually had a half-post all typed up, but then ran out of the house, so I'll post that when I'm home tonight.

Re: body fat percentage. I put my measurements into one of those online calculators, and it said either 21 or 23% (dammit, half written, more accurate post at home). And then I jiggled the numbers to try to get myself down to 13%. It was like, lose 4 inches from hips and stomach, 2 from waist, and 15lbs. That puts me at 105lbs, which I think is right at the bottom normal weight for my height. Now to me, these numbers sound kind of crazy. But maybe they aren't? And I'm also sure that there's more than one way to get to 13%, those were just the numbers I happened to change. Still, I think 4 inches from the hips is impossible, since I don't have hips, and I would pretty much have to be shaving off bone.

And also, the most frustrating part of this abs thing is that I do see results elsewhere - I can run faster, longer, my legs and arms look better, my butt hurts from the BBWW. But just nothing from abs/stomach...

As to diet, I'm definitely trying to get better there. At first the NF community decided I was eating too little, so I started eating more (good!) things, and then I'm also trying hard to cut out/down on the sugar (and succeeding!). For Zone diet, a quick Wiki search says it's 40% carbs, 30% proteins, 30% fats. I have oatmeal for breakfast and an egg for pre-lunch, sandwich for lunch, so...? Diets kind of confuse me, especially with ratios. I think I'd rather just try to eat... well?

(Sorry for the vague guesses at everything, I just wanted to get something up here, and I'll post the other one once I get home.)

And I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but I still kind of don't get the answer. Is it to keep doing (any) abs stuff, but make sure I'm doing it hard so I can feel it, and then be patient? I'm not saying that's a bad answer - sounds good - I'm just trying to understand.

[Guest tparker]

Best bet:

Find and adjust your diet to where it needs to be, with proper monitoring of calories.

Workout with intensity. (Personal recommendation is to NOT focus on ab work, but total body strength and conditioning.)

As for body fat percentages, it is really low to get down there for women to start showing six packs, but flat stomachs are achieved sooner.

And by intensity workouts, very simply put, if you are not struggling and making pools of sweat, you probably can afford to work harder.

[karassa]

As to diet, I'm definitely trying to get better there. At first the NF community decided I was eating too little, so I started eating more (good!) things, and then I'm also trying hard to cut out/down on the sugar (and succeeding!). For Zone diet, a quick Wiki search says it's 40% carbs, 30% proteins, 30% fats. I have oatmeal for breakfast and an egg for pre-lunch, sandwich for lunch, so...? Diets kind of confuse me, especially with ratios. I think I'd rather just try to eat... well?

Yeah, it can kinda get confusing. Basically, what Zone boils down to is what Suse said above. Cut out bread, pasta, rice, cereal, potatoes, sugar. Generally all those things we think of as "traditional" carbs. Instead, replace with Veggies and Fruit, which are also carbs! In order to get the same percentage of carbs from the fruits and veggies, you generally have to eat lots more of them, so you won't feel hungry at all!

[MMyers]

Personally, I haven't dropped a pound of weight since I started training. It's the whole number game that gets people upset. I have, however, lost 4 inches off my waist and went down two jean sizes. Weight shouldn't concern you, body fat percentages should.

Eat filling foods. I love oatmeal, and I eat it many times a week. Just a little bit with milk can leave me full after being hungry for hours. Now, my diet isn't perfect. I love soda.

However, deadlifts, chin-ups, push-ups, and HIIT are excellent ways that worked (and still work) for me.

Either way, good luck. I hope you get what you want.

[Guest tparker]

Personally, I haven't dropped a pound of weight since I started training. It's the whole number game that gets people upset. I have, however, lost 4 inches off my waist and went down two jean sizes. Weight shouldn't concern you, body fat percentages should

This. Granted, I've needed a belt to hold my boxers up, but my wife in the past 5 months has shed off about 2-3 inches, and went from size 13ish pants, to 10. She has remained within 1 pound of her start weight though.

[ormaybemidgets]

FROM THIS MORNING:

Wow, thank you for all of the responses! I'll try to answer all the things that we asked.

First, according to this website, my Body Fat Percentage is 23.71%. I tried to play with it to find out where I'd have to be to be 13% - I'm sure that there are many ways to get to it, but the one I found is losing 4 inches from my waist, 6 from my stomach, 4 from my hips, and 15lbs. That seems like a lot, doesn't it? It also pushes me from 119lbs to 105lbs, which I think is right on the edge of healthy for my height.

jtc: It looks like the "vacuum" is just sucking your stomach in? I do that all day, man!

I think the reason this is so frustrating is because I do see results elsewhere - I can run faster, longer, part of my body look better like legs, and arms, and parts of my body hurt like hell after the BBWW (butt). But I just don't see the change in my stomach. So I know I'm doing things right, just not the stomach thing.

Will respond to the rest later! Thank you guys!

[karassa]

About the numbers on that calculator.

That calculator assumes that all you are doing is losing fat. It has no way of measuring muscle.

Think of the old riddle: Which weighs more, a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks? Obviously they both weigh the same; one ton, but of course the feathers are going to take up A LOT more space. The same is true of fat and muscle. Fat is the feathers, muscle is the brick. If you add muscle while at the same time lose fat, your weight won't change, but your size will!

Also, how much body fat percentage you need to have to show abs is just a guesstimate. Much of it depends on where your body carries its fat. I have a 29% body fat according to my scale (not the most accurate method of measuring), but I've got a flat tummy, and you can definitely see my abs if I flex them a bit. But that's because all my fat is in my thighs and butt. I have very little fat from the waist up (classic "pear" shape). So if your fat is not as concentrated around the middle, you might have to lose less to get the results you're after.

[jtc]

Most bodyfat measurements are wildly unreliable and can vary quite a lot based on what time of day you do it or how long ago you've eaten. Taking measurements of yourself is useful enough but don't put more stock into an inaccurate formula than it's worth.

[ormaybemidgets]

Hey guys,

Sorry I didn't get back to you real quick, but I have been reading and I appreciate all the comments.

Well, as far as body fat percentage, I guess I shouldn't put too much faith in it. I do know, though, and can feel, that I'm not 13% body fat. So even if the measure of me is inaccurate, and the measure of what you need is inaccurate, I still know I'm not there yet.

Now I am also having the problem of not losing pounds (and recently, putting on pounds). I don't feel/look/measure smaller, but I don't feel bigger either, so I don't know how I feel about that. I'm going to sign up for Daily Plate because I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

And then in addition to diet, I guess I'll work on keeping up the cardio - I'm drenched in sweat after so no worries about my intensity - and getting back on an abs plan - that is hard - in addition to BBWW.

[Suse]

was just reading about the "vacuum" and am giving it a try, but here is one thing I read about it that I think makes sense:

"There is one thing that muscle, known as the rectus abdominus doesn’t do though…and that’s keep your stomach flat – it actually does the opposite!The more you work those crunches and other popular ab exercises the more you are rounding your waist line.

The abs are like any other muscle when they are tensed they round outwards, and when developed through exercise they maintain that round hard “toneâ€. Look at every muscle in your body, even as you sit here reading this. Your legs are rounded, biceps to on the front of your arm. Forearms, glutes, they are all round. So why would your abs be different? "

so this is why the vacuum is different cause it is working the transversus abdominus?? (sp). Definitely going to do this while I am sitting at work, seems to be different variations of how you can do it, but essentially I'm just going to put a stopwatch on and do it for 30 seconds several times a day.

[jtc]

was just reading about the "vacuum" and am giving it a try, but here is one thing I read about it that I think makes sense:

"There is one thing that muscle, known as the rectus abdominus doesn’t do though…and that’s keep your stomach flat – it actually does the opposite!The more you work those crunches and other popular ab exercises the more you are rounding your waist line.

The abs are like any other muscle when they are tensed they round outwards, and when developed through exercise they maintain that round hard “toneâ€. Look at every muscle in your body, even as you sit here reading this. Your legs rounded, biceps to on the front of your arm. Forearms, glutes, they are all round. So why would your abs be different? "

I guess that's kinda true to a certain extent, but I reeeeeally doubt it's that applicable to like 99% of people, since this would seem to require both an extremely low body fat %, as well as serious overdevelopment of the muscles themselves. Think of like hardcore day-glo orange bodybuilder dudes. It would take a LOT of work to get to that point, enough that I'm inclined to think it doesn't really happen too much in people who aren't actively making that happen. For everyone else, if you're lean enough to be able to see your abs at all, you probably have a pretty darn flat stomach and should be smug enough already without whining about it.

Also that writer totally triggered a pet peeve of mine, which is that "tone" does not mean what he or she thinks it means.

so this is why the vacuum is different cause it is working the transversus abdominus?? (sp). Definitely going to do this while I am sitting at work, seems to be different variations of how you can do it, but essentially I'm just going to put a stopwatch on and do it for 30 seconds several times a day.

Yeah basically. It's not like it's gonna make your abs just show up like magic or anything but it's easy and helps a little IMO.

Also if you feel something pop you are vacuuming too hard.