Splits, backbends & extreme flexibility

[Mad Hatter]

I'm a circus wannabe and dabble in contortion and get questions once in a while on how to get more flexible. But instead of hijacking random threads I thought I'd start this thread for chatting about anything related to more extreme flexibility training like splits and backbends. You know the stuff that looks cool.

 

There was one question about how to start with backbending and a quick google search always results in this link, which I do NOT recommend. It starts at a way too advanced level, uses old fashioned training techniques and doesn't discuss alignment. Instead I'd highly recommend these two videos:

 

 

 

Disclaimer - I'm far from an expert, but I've trained with a few knowledgable people, pick things up like a sponge and I'm happy to share what I know and support anyone in their bendy endeavours.

[Mad Hatter]

This is where I'm at six months out of practice. As I said, I'm no expert!

 

[svilardo2]

That's awesome! You're doing great. I couldn't even do that while I was a gymnast

[Mad Hatter]

Thanks! Though I always thought there was less focus on flexibility for the men?

[Harika]

Thanks! Though I always thought there was less focus on flexibility for the men?

I have never understood that, and hold the opinion that all the events should be unisex with each person choosing (as is already done) 1-5 stations, with the exception that the all-around be based on the 5 chosen not what is between the legs.

[Mad Hatter]

Long standing tradition? But I agree, and I'd love to see some females kicking ass on the rings for example.

[svilardo2]

Thanks! Though I always thought there was less focus on flexibility for the men?

Sort of. We actually focus a lot on flexibility, we just have a harder time achieving it. I always worked on my splits and eventually had all 3, but in that same amount of time the girls that started at the same time were already working hyper splits.

I just wasn't as naturally flexible, especially in my back and shoulders (which explains why I had back surger at 30 and my shoulders still pop out occasionally...)

[svilardo2]

I have never understood that, and hold the opinion that all the events should be unisex with each person choosing (as is already done) 1-5 stations, with the exception that the all-around be based on the 5 chosen not what is between the legs.

The guys had 6 events. I competed all of them, but was definitely more talented at high bar, floor and vault.

But the thought of an accidental slip on beam...YEOWCH. Although we used to have a "swap" day at our gym where we would the girls' routines and they would learn ours and then would compete against each other on the opposite events. It was fun. But I slipped off while trying to do giants on the uneven bars (that bar is so much thicker than the high bar )

[starsapart]

Ooooh, this is relevant to my interests, subbing~

 

One of my goals is to get back into a hyperextended split - I used to do these with ease, but these days a regular split is my limit.  But someday again!!!!!!

[khodabae]

Oooh awesome videos. I have been working this routine to practice my splits.

[Twilight]

I'm here for the bendy!

[Nekobeko]

Wow thank you for linking these videos. I've found its hard to find good progression steps on the bendy stuff.

 

Mostly its like "now I'm standing", "now I'm folded in half backwards", "and thats how you do a backbend, now you try!" 

 

I'm kind of excited since I can do some of the progressions in those videos already (having not trained), so I'm like holy hell where will my body be at if I do this stuff every day for 6 months?

[Mad Hatter]

But the thought of an accidental slip on beam...YEOWCH. Although we used to have a "swap" day at our gym where we would the girls' routines and they would learn ours and then would compete against each other on the opposite events. It was fun. But I slipped off while trying to do giants on the uneven bars (that bar is so much thicker than the high bar   )

 

 

Ooooh, this is relevant to my interests, subbing~

 

One of my goals is to get back into a hyperextended split - I used to do these with ease, but these days a regular split is my limit.  But someday again!!!!!!

 

Me too! I had a (small) oversplit on my left leg just last year but then I injured my (right) hamstring and it kind of put me off splits stretching for a while. But I hope to get it back soon.  

 

Oooh awesome videos. I have been working this routine to practice my splits.

 

Like the author said, it's a hodge-podge of stretches, but it's not bad at all. I'm not sure the hamstring stretch is aggressive enough though, at least it wouldn't be for me and I'd like to see a frog stretch as a precursor to the middle splits, since middles are so hard to just hold. But he has some good tips in there. As with any program if you get stuck don't hesitate to switch things up.

 

Wow thank you for linking these videos. I've found its hard to find good progression steps on the bendy stuff.

 

Mostly its like "now I'm standing", "now I'm folded in half backwards", "and thats how you do a backbend, now you try!" 

 

I'm kind of excited since I can do some of the progressions in those videos already (having not trained), so I'm like holy hell where will my body be at if I do this stuff every day for 6 months?

 

I want to see your progress too! Though you need rest days! Back bending requires loads of strength and should be treated as any other strength exercise. After all it's the front side of the body that's stretched and the back is strongly contracting. 1-2x/week of intense stretching is plenty to start with. You can stretch your hips and shoulders on a daily basis, but only to maintain the current range of motion, and not to try to push it. 

[starsapart]

Me too! I had a (small) oversplit on my left leg just last year but then I injured my (right) hamstring and it kind of put me off splits stretching for a while. But I hope to get it back soon.

 

Only I'm out of this walking boot (stupid broken bone) and can point my toes again, I'll definitely be incorporating splits back into my stretching routine, and hopefully it'll come back with relative ease!  I'm also thinking of giving Flying Pigeon a try sometime after I recover, because I am insane.  I've got the extension for it, though the balance part will be tricky as hell.......

[Mad Hatter]

Nah it's not insane, it's fun! Have you seen Nymeria's thread? She does a lot of hand balancing if you need pointers.

 

Sorry to hear about your bone though. Hope it heals fast!

[starsapart]

Nah it's not insane, it's fun! Have you seen Nymeria's thread? She does a lot of hand balancing if you need pointers.

 

Sorry to hear about your bone though. Hope it heals fast!

 

I've been linked to one of her tutorials, she is so cool. 

 

Intending to enlist my yoga teacher's assistance as well, once I can return to yoga - she's amazing at hand balances (and regularly makes up her own variations).

[Ivan]

I have never understood that, and hold the opinion that all the events should be unisex with each person choosing (as is already done) 1-5 stations, with the exception that the all-around be based on the 5 chosen not what is between the legs.

 

The various gymnastic events are tailored to the biological differences between the sexes. Men have more upper body strength (parallel bars, rings, etc), whereas women tend to be much lighter (useful for flinging yourself around - uneven bars, box horse, etc), for example.

[Mad Hatter]

Yes but in pretty much every other sport both men and women compete doing exactly the same thing. They might not run as fast or lift as much, but they still kick ass at what they do. Why should gymnastics be any different?

[Ivan]

I think it comes down to time constraints. The exact range of Olympic sports is constantly changing as unpopular sports are dropped (polo, tug of war, etc), and popular sports are added (snowboarding, etc). Gymnastics already has far more events than many sports (only three in fencing, etc), making it hard to justify suddenly doubling the number of competitions just so that each sex can compete at their non-traditional events.

 

But it would be totally cool to see.

[theDonnybrook]

Weighing on in the difference between men's and women's gymnastics, if you break down the moves in the individual events there are a lot similarities.  High Bar and Uneven Bars have a lot of very similar moves, and men and women all work from the same skills book on floor.  For whatever reason, the powers that be way back in imfamy decided that women's gymnastic would focus on art and men's on strength/power.  I was a highschool gymnast, with a focus on floor (power tumbler) and p-bars.  I was never very good, but did coach the kids for a little while.  We didn't separate the young kids until they got old enough to do gender specific work.  Everyone worked the same balance and tumbling to start.  Men's skills do tend to benefit from male physiology.  While I have no doubt that a woman could do a plange press to hands giant to hands on rings, the best guys in the world on rings make those brute strength presses look amazing.  In the same way, I know there are plenty of men who could dance a floor routine for a woman's meet, but I don't know if it would look nearly as amazing.

 

I also woudln't want to miss on beam.  There are certain things that physiology makes tougher for men beyond flexibility.  It may be gender stereotypical, but it seems to fit the capabilities of the sexes.

[theDonnybrook]

I think it comes down to time constraints. The exact range of Olympic sports is constantly changing as unpopular sports are dropped (polo, tug of war, etc), and popular sports are added (snowboarding, etc). Gymnastics already has far more events than many sports (only three in fencing, etc), making it hard to justify suddenly doubling the number of competitions just so that each sex can compete at their non-traditional events.

 

But it would be totally cool to see.

 

About this, each Olympics has a set number of medals, I think it is 120 or 150.  They don't have enough winter sports to fill the program which is why the winter games keep expanding.  The summer games are full, and that program is really about the money, so they ditch the sports that don't bring in ratings like, unfortunately, wrestling, and bring in sports with money like, equally as unfortunately, golf.  Golf is an easy sport to have, especially to replace wrestling, too, because there are only two medals, where for wrestling, there are tons based on weight classes.  You see this with a lot of sports being added to the program in the provisional section.  It needs to be cheap to house, not have a lot of medals, but make a lot of money.  That is why Rugby 7s made the provisional events.  Wrestling may be back, or we could see a change, like an MMA category in the place of both boxing and wrestling.  I don't have any hope that my preferred sport would make it, even though we have been trying for years.  My goal remains Masters World Champs, though.  Finally, year over year, Gymnastics, particularly the women's event, brings in some of the best ratings and revenue.  They won't likely risk changing the program for that reason alone.

[Harika]

The various gymnastic events are tailored to the biological differences between the sexes. Men have more upper body strength (parallel bars, rings, etc), whereas women tend to be much lighter (useful for flinging yourself around - uneven bars, box horse, etc), for example.

Based on Biology or training? Just on NF I have seen a lot of stories where when they train right women are in the strongest group and men high in the agile/flexible ranks.

 

I think it comes down to time constraints. The exact range of Olympic sports is constantly changing as unpopular sports are dropped (polo, tug of war, etc), and popular sports are added (snowboarding, etc). Gymnastics already has far more events than many sports (only three in fencing, etc), making it hard to justify suddenly doubling the number of competitions just so that each sex can compete at their non-traditional events.

 

But it would be totally cool to see.

Doubling would be a lot, but the same number per person with a few more choices would be feasible. However, as one of the most well-broadcast events I doubt the networks would mind the extra time. I do wonder how the Olympics plans to survive as more and more people stop cable/satellite services and switch to the internet.

 

I also woudln't want to miss on beam.  There are certain things that physiology makes tougher for men beyond flexibility.  It may be gender stereotypical, but it seems to fit the capabilities of the sexes.

It does not not hurt for women (well, girls, really, because the side effect of requiring flexibility only for females has led the sport to exclude almost anyone of adult age) too. Different points off between falling off and falling on the beam could be made the same, but apart from that the point is to not fall, but if you do try to not get injured.

[Elennare]

This thread is awesome.  The back bend stuff and splits routine posted look pretty cool, and I am looking forward to giving them a try.

Does anyone have a good link for hip stretches?

 

I used to be pretty bendy, but a desk job and not as much time to work on exercise and stretching has reduced it quite a bit.  Then, for some reason, recovering from my second c-section really made me lose my flexibility.  Like, sitting on the floor with my legs straight out in front of me and my back straight is hard, lost it.   I am very sad about that, and really want to get it back.  I've started working on it, and think maybe some of it is starting to return, slowly.

[Ivan]

Posted Yesterday, 06:22 PM

Ivan, on 20 Aug 2014 - 1:07 PM, said:

The various gymnastic events are tailored to the biological differences between the sexes. Men have more upper body strength (parallel bars, rings, etc), whereas women tend to be much lighter (useful for flinging yourself around - uneven bars, box horse, etc), for example.

Based on Biology or training? Just on NF I have seen a lot of stories where when they train right women are in the strongest group and men high in the agile/flexible ranks.

 

 

Pure biology. Remember that with the Olympics we are talking about the extreme right end of the bell curve. This isn't about whether the average woman can train to be stronger than the average guy. This is about whether the strongest women can train to become stronger than the strongest men, who are also in training. All you need to do is look at the power lifting world records to know that the answer is not just "no", but "hahahahaha, no".

 

The flexibility and light bodyweight of female gymnastics is perhaps harder to measure, but I strongly suspect that the answer is the same.

 

 

 

Doubling would be a lot, but the same number per person with a few more choices would be feasible. However, as one of the most well-broadcast events I doubt the networks would mind the extra time.

 

It's not about doubling the number of events each athlete enters, it's about doubling the number of events held. If, for example, you have a women's balance beam event, and you also want to have a men's balance beam event (regardless of whether all, or only some of the men participate), you've still needed to double the number of balance beam events being held.

[sylph]

It's not about doubling the number of events each athlete enters, it's about doubling the number of events held. If, for example, you have a women's balance beam event, and you also want to have a men's balance beam event (regardless of whether all, or only some of the men participate), you've still needed to double the number of balance beam events being held.

 

Or, you just have "balance beam" and both men and women compete if they so desire.