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Harken

Paleo-keto how fast should i lose weight?

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Hi guys,

Since starting my low carb paleo diet its become more healthy oil based ie paleo keto...i feel great.

However ive lost 18 Lbs (8.2kg) in a month ...i was 19 stone 10, 125.4 kg, 276 Lbs. And havent been hungry as i eat 1kg, 2.2 Lbs of vegetables a day and enough oil through nuts and a tablespoon of coconut oil that im rarely hungry.

What are the problems with loosing weight too fast? How much weight can i healthily loose being such a chunky bunny? Peace lol

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As long as you're eating a nutrient rich diet and getting the appropriate macros you should be perfectly fine. You have a lot of unnecessary weight at the moment, the rate of loss will slow as your weight drops to value more suited to your height and body composition.

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That's awesome. Great job getting started! The fact that you're not getting hungry is a really good sign that your body is taking to keto well.

 

You can expect to lose 1 to 3 pounds a week till you get within 15 to 40 lbs of your goal weight. It'll probably slow some at that point. This is going to vary from person to person. You may hit a plateau or 3 in the process. When you do, popping out of keto for a day or two and indulging in some carbs can be effective. When you get closer to your goal weight, switching to some sort of cyclic low-carb protocol may be the next step.

 

You're unlikely to see the same rate of fat loss as in the first month because a lot of the weight lost when you started was from your muscles losing water. Like 5 to ten pounds of water leave when your muscles empty of glycogen. This is normal and not unhealthy.

 

Losing weight too fast is mostly only unhealthy if you're starving or losing muscle. Keto diets defend muscle pretty well. Doing some resistance training helps as well. You can lose weight too fast, but if you're feeling healthy, sleep well, and not seeing a drop in performance at the gym, then you're probably doing great.

 

How much weight can you lose? That's not really for anyone else to say. Now that you've made a decision to be healthier, the sky is really the limit. You can get as fit as you want to be, as strong as you want to be. It's just a matter of time and priorities.

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Sorry for late reply.

Im doing fine as long as i eat when am hungry or my blood sugar goes low and feel bit fuzzy and slow.

Was talking to someone a d at moment i think this is what am eating

1kg veg...370 calories

2 tbsp coconut oil...200 cals

300 g chicken...220 cals

Oil am cooking with 400-500 cals approx

So at a rough guess am on 1200-1300 calories this is way under what a good calorie restricted target should be correct?

What should i be aiming for? I felt fine so far and not lost any strength but feel like strength progress slowed but maybe is noobie gains ending after 6 weeks?

Bit confused lol

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Do you work out at all?  I am a 5'4" 185lb female and your current caloric range would probably be what I would aim for to loose weight if I wasn't working out as well.

 

I lift heavy weights, so when I go into Ketosis (Whole30-ing current to work down into the 75kg competitive weight class!), I have to make sure I have an goodly amount of protein, so I may maintain my lifts.

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I work out 4 days a week, 6'1 , 257 lbs (117kg)...

This calculator of calories needed suggests for me 2000 calories a day would be for extreme fat loss. What do you think?

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com

Suggests these macros:

2352 kcal Daily Calorie Intake

25 g Carbohydrates (4%, 100 kcal)

109 g Protein (19%, 436 kcal)

202 g Fat (77%, 1816 kcal)

Pretty sure am getting more than enough carbs and right amount of protein...

To calculate my fat macro intake I have to calculate fat in everything am eating and not just in fats i consume correct?

Any one done keto before?

Thanks :)

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I drifted into keto during my crash diet phase, when weight loss was my one and only goal.  It works well enough, there's science behind it and it's not terrible for people with high starting weights, there's science behind why it's not so good closer to goal weights etc. 

 

The biggest issue that spills off the top of my head with rapid weight loss is excess skin.  Even with the skin elasticity that comes with youth, if you drop too much too fast the skin doesn't keep up.  Sometimes it catches up over time, other times it requires surgery to remove the excess skin.

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Ok, there are a few things I would mention.

 

1. 370kcal (92.5g) carb is pretty high for getting into ketosis. Really high, actually. This is gonna vary some from person to person, but 90g is likely to keep you out of ketosis. You're better off going super-low to begin with - like 20g to 40g - then dialing it up from there. But you won't really know where you're at unless measuring in some way. People who've been in and out of ketosis for a while can often tell just from their body, emotional state, vitality state, if they're in ketosis or not. It takes a while to get there. If ketosis is really your main tool for improving your health, you should use some sort of tool to measure your blood keytones. There are several. That said, if you're less than 30g carbs/day and getting 65% or more cal from fat, you're just about guaranteed to stay in ketosis. You'll probably need to keep protein under 100g/day to make sure you don't drift out as well. Like carb intake, this will vary per person as well.

 

2. Fat, fat, fat, fat, fat. Did I mention fat? People think of keto as being a meat-centered diet. It's really a fat-centered diet. You're encouraging your body to use fat as it's main source of fuel. If your protein intake is too high, then a lot of that protein gets turned into glucose, raises blood sugar, raises insulin, and keeps your nervous system and organs from running on mostly keytone bodies, which is your goal, rather than glucose. And if you're not making that full transition then you're riding that line of needing glucose as your main nervous-system fuel source, but not having enough glucose in your body to get the job done. So you end up feeling lethargic, groggy, light-headed, depressed, and hating the transition period to ketosis. You should think of getting 65% to 80% cal from fat for healthy, high-functioning ketosis.

 

3. Transition period. The transition to ketosis can be brutal. Well, more annoying than brutal. Your body takes a while to get accustomed to not having glucose around and tries to conserve what is has until it's convinced that glucose just isn't coming and switches over to BHB (keytone bodies) for fuel. I like the idea of using a low-carb period with 50-100g per day to get your body acclimated to using fat more often as a fuel source. The paleo community often refers to this as getting "fat adapted". It's the shallow end of the low-carb pool. Doing this for a few weeks can be very helpful in making the full transition to keto more comfortable.

 

4. Long term. There are varying opinions on this, but the best science seems to favor not staying in ketosis for extended periods of time without a break. There's variation here as well. Some people can go for years, some have issues after a few weeks. Especially if you're really active, and even more if you're a really active woman. You really have to listen to your body and moods when doing ketosis. I'm not sure going longer than 2 weeks at a time is really beneficial from a weight-loss perspective, and can be detrimental for many. Doing a carb refeed and going right back to a keto protocol helps keep a lot of metabolic processes on track. It really helps in terms of maintaining healthy adrenal function, thyroid function, leptin production and sensitivity, healthy glucose response, and keeps skeletal muscle from getting too efficient at using keytones. This is outside of medical reasons someone might be using ketosis and more geared toward weight-loss.

 

5. It's not necessary to be in ketosis to lose weight. You get a lot of the same benefits as ketosis from just going low-carb and periodic carb refeeds.

 

6. 1200 is super-low. Changing to keto will likely initiate weight-loss for many reasons. Getting away from an insulin-raging standard diet, naturally lowering calories, training your body and brain to use fat as your main fuel source rather than carb, eliminating gliadin from your diet. Most of the time you don't have to dip so low in terms of calories. If you want to count calories to get a perspective on your macro ratio, that may be effective at first. But one of the beautiful things about going ultra low-carb is that you usually don't need to count calories - especially after you get a feel for getting enough fat. Going below 1600 usually isn't necessary unless you have a particularly slow metabolism, and it can have some fairly detrimental effects. If you're hungry, eat. When you've had enough, stop. Keto helps you be in touch with your body's natural signals more than a standard diet, and helps you repair the signaling damage done to your body over time.

 

7. Workouts. Working out on ketosis can be extra draining - especially when you're doing very intense training like lifting heavy or long sprint intervals. You'll probably need longer rest periods between sets, or dial back on percentage of your 1RM, or do the same volume with shorter sets - like going from 5x5 to 8 sets x 3 reps. It's going to vary quite a bit per person, but be aware and listen to your body. MCT oil is a good energy-boost during workouts while in ketosis. Ketosis is actually great for steady-state workouts like cycling, stair-climbing or running where your intensity and heart rate are lower.

 

Jimmy Moore has a lot of info on Ketosis at     http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/            It's fairly good information. He has a podcast worth listening to as well. It's called Livin la vida low carb. John Kiefer has a lot of great information about cyclic low-carb and keto eating too. He's at body.io and has an awesome podcast.

 

Hope I didn't go on too much.

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Derek, that post was amazing!

 

I am just playing with Ketosis for dropping into my preferred weight class for lifting competitions and this was very helpful. I have just been learning with casual reading and playing around with diets for myself.

 

For me, I ABHOR measuring food, so I play with how I feel, how my body composition changes, etc to gauge how I need to shuffle up my intakes.

 

For #7, I can say this will absolutely happen. I get ridiculously sweaty and tired when I do my lifting sets while in Ketosis, but I still get through them at my normal lift percentages. I just tell the guys I lift with that I am, and they don't tease me too much :)  It is part of the game, but it is only temporary so focus on the goal and accept the gassed feelings at times.

 

Before workouts, I will try to get some healthy fats in 45 minutes to an hour before I lift. Like an avacodo, green olives, etc and this has helped me get through a heavy set day. 

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Thank you very much for that DerekP,

"keeps skeletal muscle from getting too efficient at using keytones" why is this a problem? Not sure i follow.. :)

Your comment about signaling damage relating to eating is genius!

Thanks for links. I can be quite anal and bit ocd so measuring is no problem for me lol

Easy way to measure fats is using a container youve previously marked for the fat you will have in a day...like this you only measure once :) ...can be applied to all macros.

Will figure out my fat intake tomorrow as have sorted carbs to 25g/day (i <3 frozen veg in packets lol) and protein well...i bought 9 kg of chicken breast a while ago lol 300g chicken a day...

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"keeps skeletal muscle from getting too efficient at using keytones" why is this a problem? Not sure i follow..

 

After about 3 weeks (of course this will vary individually, as most every biological process does) skeletal muscle gets more efficient at turning fatty acids into ATP. ATP is the actual molecule that muscles use for energy. The more efficient you are at turning fat into ATP, the less fat you need to burn to do work. Doing carb refeeds help back this process up and keeps the body less efficient at using fat to create ATP. This may be the least significant aspect of why doing carb refeeds helps, but I think it's interesting and probably worth mentioning. If you we're doing keto as a lifestyle you would probably want to do carb refeeds less often because you would most likely want the performance benefits of more efficient ATP production. But if your goal is to lose fat, then staying inefficient is more effective. There are pretty significant downsides to doing keto long-term with no breaks, but these are gonna vary from person to person. Some successfully go years with no ill effects. Some do poorly after a few weeks. You just have to pay attention.

 

Oh, something I meant to mention before; the oil you put in the pan isn't always the oil that goes in your body. So you may be losing some amount of good fat in the pan after cooking. It might be a small thing, but it could make a difference making sure you're getting enough fat. It doesn't take much fat left in the pan after cooking to leave a few hundred calories behind. I make a kick-ass sloppy joe and put it on a crepes, but most all the fat gets drained, so we make sure we get some salad dressing on some baby spinach for fat. Sometimes i'll just chug a little MCT oil if i'm on the run and can only grab some chicken on the way out the door.

 

Mind if I ask specifically why you're looking at doing ketosis? Btw, being a bit ocd can be actually be somewhat helpful doing keto or cyclic-keto diets. If it doesn't help create anxiety, it could be a really good fit for you to lose fat.

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Hi :)

Im doing keto cause it makes a lot of sense to me...

switch your body over to burning fat and it will more easily dip into your fat stores when needed.

Also carb rich foods in general i find a problem as they tend to encourage my hunger rather than satisfy it. Eg rice, potatoes etc

Fat is a natural apetite supressant which is great.

Good fats like coconut oil have health benefits.

Thats mainly it i guess...but i have to agree with your statement about a low carb and high fat diet will give me all the benefits i need.

Might go back to 75g a carb a day as felt quite good on that.

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All sound like great reasons. Finding your sweet spot is important. If 75 is your sweet spot, you might try going to 30ish for til you get into keto, hold there for a week or two and ease it back up. A lot of people can stay in keto at 75g. Just a thought. But like I said, full on keto isn't necessary for weight loss. But finding a carb level that keeps you sane is. I often get into keto on day 5 or 6, just in time for cheat day. Though I'm thinking about trying to stay in full ketosis for a few weeks to try to get more adapted to performing better in the gym while doing ultra low-carb. Right now days 4, 5, and 6 of ULC are pretty brutal at the gym.

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I used to be fat.

 

Here are my pics.

UHccuQa.jpg

 

As you can see, I used to be fat nearly my entire life. I'm 5'10. My fattest was 230lbs (15 years old). Now (still 5'10) at 175lbs (24 years old). The "fat selfie" was in Aug'13. The "buff instagram" is Sep'14. I practice clean eating mostly follow the Paleo Diet. My workouts are core-strengthening and stability based.

 

It was a long journey.

 

And through this journey I discovered I wanted to help others with their fitness goals, too. That's why I became a certified personal trainer (NASM) and chose to major in Kinesiology at my University.

 

Anyway, I figured since I'll be having clients soon I might as well get a feel for how that works. So I want to help you all (free of charge) with your fitness goals.

 

For starters, tell me about:

Your age and gender (gives me ideas on what strategies I can suggest to you)

Your biggest health problem and full story

What you've tried

What you've HATED about what you tried

 

I'll read everyone's posts and see what strategies I can suggest for you.

 

Cool?

 

**P.S.** I’d like to compile and organize all my answers and suggested solutions for those that are interested.

 


 

**Disclaimer** Oh and by the way, you should always consult with your doctor first.

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Saucefire,

 

Welcome to NF. You've done an awesome job getting fit. Holy crap, your pic looks great. Good luck with your modeling career. :)

It's great that you're so enthusiastic about fitness and health. We need more people like you in our country. Well, everywhere, really.

 

I might suggest taking a little time to see what's here if you haven't already. There's a lot of fitness professionals, high level amateur athletes, coaches, trainers, and people who've lost 50, 100, 150 pounds. There are lots of beginners here with some very basic questions as well. You'll see lots of great information and some bad. Jumping in with your first post and declaring yourself here to help everyone, "free of charge", is likely to be off-putting to a lot of people. It's awesome that you're so enthusiastic, but this place has been around a while and a lot of people have been doing very well before your arrival. I'm glad you're here and I'd bet that you'll be a positive influence on the community. But you might consider just engaging in the discussion already at hand rather than trumpeting the announcement of your arrival.

 

Using NF to practice engaging with people, adjusting your message, learning how to individualize information for a persons needs and his/her ability to hear it is a great idea. Your efforts here to learn, to teach, and to learn to teach should help you a ton in your career, and I'm sure will help to add the discussions on the site that people use every day to improve their fitness and lives. Hope to see you around the forums.

 

D

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