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Last Edit: 4-Feb-2015

After starting this thread, I was informed that what I am doing is known as a Protein Sparing Modified Fast (PSMF).

I am constantly consulting The Oracle (Google) to find out more about this subject and modify the diet plan as approriate. As of right now here is how I am planning on executing the diet:
 

I am still learning more about it as the days go on. Based off of what I have learned so far, I will be trying the following diet/exercise plan:
 

Every day my goal will be to consume 140 G of protein.

 

I will cycle 2 days of nothing but protein shakes and fiber powder. 144G Protein, 10G Fat, 6G Sugar 30G Fiber, 738-ish Calories on a shake day the calorie count will be slightly higher - by how much depends on how you calculate the calories from fiber. This figured incorporates the calories from the 4mg of fish oil I will take.

 

Every 3 days I will have have a big ol' egg white omelet made from 4-ish egg whites with spinach, red peppers, mushrooms and jalapenos. In addition I will eat a whole egg as well as a big plate of fresh spinach or lettuce, red peppers, cucumber, a couple of green olives, and about a big handful of salted mixed nuts. I will also have protein shakes to get my required grams of protein.

Every other "food cycle" I will have a little bit of cantaloupe (half a cup-ish) and a banana in addition to the omelet, plate of low-carb veggies, olives, and nuts.

 

I will take a multivitamin twice a day with food or a protein shake and a 2mg fish oil capsule.

 

I will continue to workout as normal - Lift 6 days a week and cycle between running 3 miles and doing sprints (ideally 3 days a week). I have a hard time motivating myself to do cardio, so I often find excuses to not run. I will work on becoming more consistent.

Before I lift or run I will take 10G of BCAAs.

I will drink tons of water, and lots of tea.
 

 

FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!

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Here is the original post which led me down the path to discovering PSMF (Thanks Hazard)

 

 

Hey everyone!

This is the result of something I was mulling over in my head, and then spending about a week reading a bajilliondy different articles on nutrition, fat loss, muscle growth, carbohydrates, fats, etc etc etc....



TLDR version: Perhaps the best body recomposition (lose fat, gain muscle) thing to do is to focus on eating 1 Gram of protein per lb. of body weight per day, and then minimize both fat and carbohydrate intake while lifting heavy things and then putting them back down???

Note: I will be eating egg whites, chicken, beef, fish, and using protein shakes as needed to hit my 1G protein/lb/day goal while drinking copious amounts of water and tea (Earl Grey and Black Currant, both made by Twinings – it’s more to help keep me from boredom snacking than anything else). I am stuck with cafeteria style dining at the moment and cannot make my own food so I will be getting some carbs/fat as well but will limit them to only what I get as a byproduct of eating the aforementioned foods.

Once I hit my desired body fat % (basically I want to look like Deadpool) I will add other foods for maintenance. Perhaps I could live off of just meat, but variety is the spice of life so I will be throwing in other food items once I get to a maintenance phase.

Other people have a lot to say about why cardio isn’t the best thing for weight loss.

Other people have a lot to say about why heavy weight training (4-6-ish reps for 3-ish sets) is best for increasing muscle strength/mass.

Other people have a lot to say about why lifting to get gainz is better for fat loss than cardio for the same amount of time.

I am a fan boy (not really, I have a mind more open than Olaf’s arms when administering warm hugs) of the aforementioned things… but I am just here to pose the following question and give my best guess as to the answer:

SO…. a certain bit of dietary advice had always confused me, specifically the concept of caloric surplus/deficit in relation to muscle growth.

Basically I keep reading that I cannot put on muscle if I eat fewer calories than my body needs in a day and you cannot lose fat when in a caloric surplus.

 

The question: Can I lose fat while gaining muscle on a low calorie diet where I eat 1G Protein/Lb Bodyweight/Day and eating as little fat/carbs as possible?

My body needs protein to build muscle. So I will eat lots of amino acids (the building blocks of protein). My body also needs energy to carry on all its myriad of functions (including building muscle). My body already has plenty of energy stored as fat.

I can understand why I would need more building blocks to make new muscle, but I already have plenty of energy saved up. Why do I need to eat more energy? Why does using up my energy stores (IE the fat) prevent me from putting on muscle? The energy is already there in my body waiting to be used….

The body seems to me to be pretty efficient and does not appear to want to waste things, especially energy. Now, you can literally piss away glucose at times, but I’ve never read anything that shows this happening in significant amounts in healthy individuals.

SO – according to conventional wisdom, it is impossible to put on muscle while eating fewer calories than your body needs to meet its daily energy needs.

That doesn’t make sense to me. Why you ask?    Well… most of us have huge energy reserves, I.E. fat. Fat is where your body stores the *VAST* amount of its energy. Sure, the body can breakdown muscle (NOTE ON THIS: I have not found any information on exactly when this happens. Since this would seem like a last-ditch sort of thing, I imagine that the body will tap into its fat before eating away at the muscle for energy in significant amounts. I have also heard that consumption of protein and exercise can stave this off, which is why I would want to keep up with the whole 1 G of protein per pound of body weight per day thing. If anyone can point me in the direction of some good information on when muscle cannibalization occurs, I would like it). There seem to be limits on how much muscle a person can put on. Our ability to put on fat appear to be limitless (people can weigh over 1,000 pounds). Our body obviously likes to, and will, easily use fat as an energy storage depot (really more like energy storage medium, but storage depot rolls off the tongue (fingers?) so well….).

With this said, just because I don’t consume as many calories in a day as my body needs for all of its various functions does not mean that I do not have energy available. You can live off of your fat stores for a hot minute (here is a link to a report on an obese man whom fasted for a year under the care of a doctor http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short).

Glucose is not an “essential nutrient†meaning that you do not have to consume glucose to live. You need glucose to live, but your body can produce it in sufficient amounts to live without you having to eat extra (google gluconeogenesis for more info – there isn’t a whole lot unfortunately). Supposedly you can make 150 G of glucose a day (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-metabolic-paradigm-shift-fat-carbs-human-body-metabolism/#axzz1za02xNxp – Go to the paragraph “So How Much Glucose Do You Really Need?†near the bottom.  He doesn’t cite the source for this, and I have not been able to find any research backing it up myself. If someone can find something supporting/rejecting this number, *please* send me a link :D).


Anyways, unless you are doing some hardcore crossfit thing, doing some crazy bicycling thing, etc etc etc your body will keep up with whatever you are trying to do (Note: This isn’t a fault of gluconeogenesis… People can eat carbz for dayz and still run into these issues with extreme feats of humaning). If you are worried it can’t, then eat a little carbs right before/during the event as needed just to get you through.

Your body only has about a teaspoon-ish of glucose floating around in the blood (this is closely regulated by the body) and can store about about 400 grams of glycogen (glycogen gets converted into glucose) in the muscles (I imagine this number varies a bit from person to person based on muscle mass) and about 100 grams of glycogen in the liver (again, probably varies a bit from person to person, but I imagine the biggest variance in individuals come from muscle stores of glycogen). http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/body-store-excess-calories-9627.html (not a direct link to the study which was conducted by Iowa State, a thousand pardons…).

There are certain parts of your body which like glucose… the brain, for example, *needs* glucose (even when adapted to using ketones, it still needs 50% of its energy to come from glucose (UGH – Of course I cannot find a source for this now… Fear not though citizen I read it on the internet, so it must be true.. For cereal though, again, if anyone can find anything supporting/rejecting this, feel free to let me know! :D) I think our blood glucose levels are pretty much just for the brain, but that is simply a guess with nothing to support it other than observations and my little bit of knowledge of how the body works…

With that said, there are parts of your body that like ketones (cardiac muscle).

A lot of your cells can use either glucose or ketones for energy once they become “adapted†(which supposedly takes a couple of weeks. I am not even gonna lie – I am getting burned out at the moment with googling things… If someone thinks that my aforementioned statement is wrong then at that point I will go verify it’s rightness or discover is wrongness).


SO…. This is a little all over the place, but I think it’s a great starting point for a discussion….

Low Carb…. Low Fat…. Why not both?? https://literatastrophe.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/screen-shot-2012-11-08-at-6-08-31-pm.png

As I stated before, I cannot get as low fat or low carb as I would like in my current situation, but I will start implementing this as of today (2-Feb-2015) and post pictures, weight, and tape measurements of different body parts (sorry, I do not have calipers yet… :\) as well as a log of what I eat everyday (with super guesstimated portions).


Oh – a note on ketoacidosis… This is a disease state present in diabeetus-ified individuals…. IE their body forgot how to insulin properly. Supposedly insulin helps regulate ketones (this is argued a lot by science-ey people (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/749914). Protein stimulates insulin release (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/1/96.full).  So, I should not go into ketoacidosis since my body knows how to insulin. However, I will keep an eye out for signs of ketoacidosis (unfortunately I do not have the capability to run labs on myself).

 

 

 

 

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I will post weekly updates.

 

When I take pictures they are done with relaxed muscles, full exhaled breath.

For the measurements: They are done with muscles relaxed, the fixed end of the tape measure (a plastic tape measure intended for use by a tailor) will remained pinned in place against my body while the free end is pulled tight. I close my eyes and let the free end slip through my fingers until it is barely snug against my body. I will re tighten and let it go loose 3 times before opening my eyes and taking note of the measurement. I purposefully keep things in 8ths. When doing measurements on the torso I do it with a fully exhaled breath, and take 3 measurements (everything is so squishy I have a hard time getting accurate results, so I don't want to rely on just one measurement).

Here are the exact locations I measure:
Neck - Widest point (over the peak of the adam's apple)
Chest - Just under the nipples

Bicep - Widest point (no landmark)
Forearm - Widest point (no landmark)

Waist - Narrowest point (which happens to be my last rib)
Belly - Widest point of my pooch (which is just below my belly button)

Butt - Widest point (I kind of figure out through trial and error where this this, there is no specific landmark)
Upper Thigh (this is the widest point of the fatty area of my thigh. No landmark)
Mid Thigh (this is the widest point of the muscular area of my thigh. No landmark)
Calf (This is the widest point of my calf. No landmark)

I do more exercises than just the ones listed... for sake of not having too much info here I will only post a few lifts. I will fill out a more comprehensive log at a later date and link it to this post.

 

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2-Feb-2015 - (NOTE: I know this was not ideal but I took all of these measurements just before dinner. In the future I will do them first thing in the morning when I wake up)

Weight - 141.9 pounds

Neck - 15" |   14 7/8"   |  15"

Chest - 33 2/8"  | 33 1/8"  | 32 7/8"
Bicep - 11 7/8"
Forearm - 9 7/8"
Waist - 29 2/8"  |  29 3/8 "   |  29 3/8"
Belly - 32 7/8"  |  33"   |   32 6/8"
Butt - 24"
Upper Thigh - 40.5""
Mid Thigh - 43"
Calf - 14 3/8"

http://rebellion.nerdfitness.com/index.php?/gallery/image/9974-2feb15-front/

http://rebellion.nerdfitness.com/index.php?/gallery/image/9975-2feb15-side/

Deadlift: 150lbs 8r 3 Set (working on form)
CHANGE: N/A

Pullup: (On assist machine): -35lbs 7, 5, 4 Reps

CHANGE: N/A

Dumbbell Bench Press: 65lbs 4 reps, 65lbs 3 reps, 60 lbs 4 reps
CHANGE: N/A

Dip: 25lbs 5 reps for 3 sets

CHANGE: N/A

Squat (butt to calves): 135lbs 5 reps, 135lbs 7 reps, 135lbs 6 reps

CHANGE: N/A

Standing Shoulder Dumbbell Press: N/A

CHANGE: N/A

 

 

 

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I'm gonna follow along out of interest, but honestly i have no idea what you are trying to prove or disprove if you can't accurately track food and have nothing more accurate for bodily changes than a tape measure and scales.

It sounds a bit like a science experiment where everything is a variable.

 

I'm sure that if you are in a deficit (as long as it isn't severe) you will get periods of anabolism and catabolism with regards to muscle. Bulking is just a way of maximising anabolism with the side effect of fat. So yeah, i think you can add small amounts of muscle while in a smallish deficit but the amount isn't going to be measurable by the methods you posted. A full bulk for a noob might hope to add 2lbs of muscle a month, this will be considerably less.

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I am trying to see if I stick with eating a low calorie diet based off of protein (I will be trying to keep my fat and carb intake as low as I can) if I will lose fat and still be able to make strength gains.



82% Of this is to motivate me to keep at it (I have an objective of continuing to fill out data for this thread)

50.4% Of this is to let other people know who have questions like I did "will this work" and give them *SOME* numbers for what happened when I followed X diet with Y workout plan.

 

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Welcome to Nerd Fitness.

 

What you're describing is a Protein-Sparing Modified Fast protocol.  I've used it several times in my life to great success.  When done well, it's excellent for getting rid of fat very quickly while maintaining lean tissue.  Very useful after a bulking period.

 

You're talking about using it for a Recomp though.  Which would have you eating at maintenance calorie level, which in turn will require some carb & fat intake.  It'll probably work, to an extent, for a little while.  You're already pretty small, so I doubt you have much "recomping" that you can really do.  Some, but not much.

 

Personally, I wouldn't recomp at your size.  I'd combine strength training with bulking and put on another 20-30 lbs.  But I have the hindsight of knowing that I looked a lot better at 170 lbs than I did at 140 lbs when I did my first bulk in college a couple of decades ago.  And that lined up with my goals.  Your goals may be different.

 

We're nerds.  It's an experiment.  Go for it.   Make sure to eat some veggies.  :encouragement:

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You haven't seen my Final Form

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yeah, i get that, but without being able to truly track your macros (you said "with super guesstimated portions") and without an accurate way to track the minuscule changes in muscle mass then i don't see how you'll be able to tell.

 

I look more muscular than i did 3 months ago because i've lost fat from around my muscles. Have i added muscle mass? Absolutely no idea and without something like a DEXA scan i don't know how i would know for sure.

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I forgot to add in my numbers from the gym - *THAT* will let me know what is going on with my muscles (in addition to how I look in the mirror).

Also - I want to get lean sooner rather than later because being able to move my body around (run, sprint, climb, etc etc) is extremely important to me, which being lean definitely helps with.

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I am trying to see if I stick with eating a low calorie diet based off of protein (I will be trying to keep my fat and carb intake as low as I can) if I will lose fat and still be able to make strength gains.

Sounds like a great experiment. But, for what it's worth, I kept carbs and fats in my diet (including beer), and still lost fat and made strength gains. So whatever floats your goat.

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I forgot to add in my numbers from the gym - *THAT* will let me know what is going on with my muscles (in addition to how I look in the mirror).

 

 

But i'm afraid to say it won't, really. Your numbers at the gym could go up due to neural adaptations, slight variations/improvements in form etc etc. Stronger does not necessarily mean more muscle mass.

 

Good luck with the transformation. In theory you'll get results

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But i'm afraid to say it won't, really. Your numbers at the gym could go up due to neural adaptations, slight variations/improvements in form etc etc. Stronger does not necessarily mean more muscle mass.

 

Good luck with the transformation. In theory you'll get results

 

Yes, you are correct, I worded that poorly.. let me rephrase what I said to more accurately reflect what I meant...

As long as I am getting stronger (primary goal), looking more muscular (secondary goal), and looking leaner (tertiary goal) then I will be happy. I have no way of tracking exact changes in muscle by weight, size, or any other specific metric, nor do I have any way of accurately measuring my body fat.

What I care about is how well I perform and look, not what the number on the scale is, nor what number my body fat % is.

I am hoping this diet will allow me to quickly drop down to a body fat percentage that makes me happy while not having to sacrifice the ability to gain strength/size (of muscle).

Hopefully this will not take super long (once I can clearly see the musculature of my abs and quads, which I know is a vague way of putting it, but I will know it when I see it) then I will add back in carbs/fat and titrate to effect. :)

 

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I'm here to watch. I'm considering doing something similar myself for a 3-4 week spurt starting next week in order to drop the hoiday weight and give me room to bulk into a competition and stay in my weight class.

 

edit: Here's a fun read for you:

http://www.basbarbell.com/2012/11/adventures-in-bodybuilding-part-1.html

http://www.basbarbell.com/2012/12/adventures-in-bodybuilding-part-2.html

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I don't see anything in this proposed protocol that will keep you from dropping weight.

In regards to why you can't gain muscle mass and lose weight at the same time:

In a caloric deficit, your body will still (very readily) use protein to meet its energy requirements. The human body uses everything you put into it to maintain muscle, then fulfill energy requirements; it taps body fat only as a last resort. Plenty of people have tried to gain muscle mass while in a deficit, and the accumulation of many studies and anecdotal evidence is: it does not happen, except in the extremely obese, and even then it's just a few pounds here and there.

You won't gain muscle, but you'll get stronger. Every untrained person has a good 3-6 months of strength gains in them due simply to neuromuscular adaptation. After that, you'll start being able to bulk much more efficiently, provide you eat at a caloric surplus.

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I don't see anything in this proposed protocol that will keep you from dropping weight.

In regards to why you can't gain muscle mass and lose weight at the same time:

In a caloric deficit, your body will still (very readily) use protein to meet its energy requirements. The human body uses everything you put into it to maintain muscle, then fulfill energy requirements; it taps body fat only as a last resort. Plenty of people have tried to gain muscle mass while in a deficit, and the accumulation of many studies and anecdotal evidence is: it does not happen, except in the extremely obese, and even then it's just a few pounds here and there.

You won't gain muscle, but you'll get stronger. Every untrained person has a good 3-6 months of strength gains in them due simply to neuromuscular adaptation. After that, you'll start being able to bulk much more efficiently, provide you eat at a caloric surplus.

The thing is... you have that nice energy dense fat that is easily replaced.... It seems so silly to hold on to that and yet sacrifice hard earned and not easily replaced muscle that can keep you alive and help you get that next meal.... *le sigh*

I haven't taken the time to look at a lot of studies of people losing weight and what happens - It's on my future to read list.

In the mean time, I know I want to drop my belly pooch (dropping a few pounds will help my run time *and* I hate seeing the pooch when I am in the gym lifting things overhead). SO... If I end up losing a little bit of muscle, but also lose the pooch, then I will still be moderately happy.

I still have my fingers crossed for making muscular progress (whether strength and/or size) while losing the body fat.... Time will tell!!

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The thing is... you have that nice energy dense fat that is easily replaced.... It seems so silly to hold on to that and yet sacrifice hard earned and not easily replaced muscle that can keep you alive and help you get that next meal.... *le sigh*

 

 

It does in this day and age yes, but throughout our evolution the opposite is true. The fat was stored so we could survive without food when it was scarce. Muscle is metabolically active, it takes calories to maintain, so the more you had the quicker you would burn through your reserves and die. It makes sense in times of scarcity to hold onto just enough muscle to be able to get by (hunt) and put the rest as fat. In those days it wouldn't have been an obesity amount of fat like is the issue today.

Evolution tends to do things pretty efficiently

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  I'd combine strength training with bulking and put on another 20-30 lbs. 

 

 

Is it wise trying to bulk as a noob to training though ..... his body wont be utilising the muscle he has for another 3-6months as it makes neural adaptations ..... so feeding the body excess calories wont necesarily turn it in to muscle will it ? .... surely he will just end up with another 20lbs of fat to shift.

 

his best option must surely stick to maintanence and go for re-comp ... or go deficit and get rid of fat until his body is ready to make muscle through bulking .. ie, in 6 months time ?

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The thing is... you have that nice energy dense fat that is easily replaced.... It seems so silly to hold on to that and yet sacrifice hard earned and not easily replaced muscle that can keep you alive and help you get that next meal.... *le sigh*

I haven't taken the time to look at a lot of studies of people losing weight and what happens - It's on my future to read list.

In the mean time, I know I want to drop my belly pooch (dropping a few pounds will help my run time *and* I hate seeing the pooch when I am in the gym lifting things overhead). SO... If I end up losing a little bit of muscle, but also lose the pooch, then I will still be moderately happy.

I still have my fingers crossed for making muscular progress (whether strength and/or size) while losing the body fat.... Time will tell!!

It's not so much that you'll be prone to muscle loss -- not as long as you're eating protein like you've talked about and strength training. The human body isn't especially prone to breaking down muscle, though it needs adequate protein to maintain it. It's just that your body won't add to the muscle it has while you're in a deficit.

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The issue here that nobody has brought up is that it is virtually impossible to maintain a true PSMF longer than 2 weeks.

Your body and mind rebel real hard. Your body will send true I'm starving signals, most people have never experienced this and aren't ready to cope with it. And once you've experienced it once, its not something you want to ever experience again.

Even the strongest of the strong willed buckle after 3-4 weeks.

A PSMF is a crash diet protocol. It works awesome, I do something related (more carbs+more cardo). But it is a very short term plan, something you do for a week or two and thats it. If you need (or want) to drop 5 lbs of fat fast, this is a perfect plan. If you are looking to lose more than 5ish pounds of fat, this is a poor plan.

You absolutely must have a defined endpoint when you do a PSMF, it makes it possible to stick out those last couple days when you know it is ending soon. If you have no defined endpoint, good luck dealing with manic hunger.

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Is it wise trying to bulk as a noob to training though ..... his body wont be utilising the muscle he has for another 3-6months as it makes neural adaptations ..... so feeding the body excess calories wont necesarily turn it in to muscle will it ? .... surely he will just end up with another 20lbs of fat to shift.

 

his best option must surely stick to maintanence and go for re-comp ... or go deficit and get rid of fat until his body is ready to make muscle through bulking .. ie, in 6 months time ?

The assertion that novices don't grow muscle tissue in the first 3-6 months is utterly wrong. That's a myth perpetuating around NF that needs to die. Yes, I think it would be wise for S082 to work hard at strength training and bulk. Bulk meaning "gain weight at a smart pace" as opposed to "eat like Michael Phelps during the Olympics."

S092 barely has any fat on his body. What he's lacking is muscle. And he can start growing more of it right now if he wants to. But that's the real key --> What he wants. Not what anybody else would want for him.

I said I wouldn't recomp if I were him, I would train and bulk. Because I know from hindsight that when I went from 140 lbs to 170 lbs, I maintained the same waist size, dropped in bodyfat percentage, grew a lot of new muscle tissue all over the place, and looked a lot better for it. And because I already experienced that many years ago, I know what would be possible for me were I where he's at. I also know that mine was not an isolated case.

That's what I would do for me. What he does should be in support of his goals. There'd be nothing wrong, for example, with him staying 141 lbs and trying to become the leanest meanest strongest 141 lb person on the planet, if that's what he wanted. It'd be comparable to athletes in weight-class sports. But there'd also be nothing wrong about him bulking (again, meaning gaining weight at a smart pace in the presence of consistent strength training; not eating 10,000 calories a day) to start growing muscle right now, if he decides he'd like to be bigger.

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The issue here that nobody has brought up is that it is virtually impossible to maintain a true PSMF longer than 2 weeks.Your body and mind rebel real hard. ... (Etc)

Good warnings.

I've found allowing myself a small carb refeed once a week is enough to let me stretch this sort of diet out to 4-5 weeks, when I'm carrying above 20% fat on my frame. When I'm down below 15% BF though, 2 weeks does seem to be my limit.

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You haven't seen my Final Form

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The issue here that nobody has brought up is that it is virtually impossible to maintain a true PSMF longer than 2 weeks.

Your body and mind rebel real hard. Your body will send true I'm starving signals, most people have never experienced this and aren't ready to cope with it. And once you've experienced it once, its not something you want to ever experience again.

Even the strongest of the strong willed buckle after 3-4 weeks.

A PSMF is a crash diet protocol. It works awesome, I do something related (more carbs+more cardo). But it is a very short term plan, something you do for a week or two and thats it. If you need (or want) to drop 5 lbs of fat fast, this is a perfect plan. If you are looking to lose more than 5ish pounds of fat, this is a poor plan.

You absolutely must have a defined endpoint when you do a PSMF, it makes it possible to stick out those last couple days when you know it is ending soon. If you have no defined endpoint, good luck dealing with manic hunger.

Great point! I will be going on vacation in just under 3 weeks. I do have a definite end point.

I do need to be able to perform, so I am cushioning it a little by going a couple of days on protein shakes only, then having a day where I will eat some low carb veggies and eat some low carb/low fat protein sources and just a *little* fat to help ward off any nutrient deficiencies. I do have to function throughout the day, so I don't want this diet to cause too many issues with that.

 

 

The assertion that novices don't grow muscle tissue in the first 3-6 months is utterly wrong. That's a myth perpetuating around NF that needs to die. Yes, I think it would be wise for S082 to work hard at strength training and bulk. Bulk meaning "gain weight at a smart pace" as opposed to "eat like Michael Phelps during the Olympics."

S092 barely has any fat on his body. What he's lacking is muscle. And he can start growing more of it right now if he wants to. But that's the real key --> What he wants. Not what anybody else would want for him.

I said I wouldn't recomp if I were him, I would train and bulk. Because I know from hindsight that when I went from 140 lbs to 170 lbs, I maintained the same waist size, dropped in bodyfat percentage, grew a lot of new muscle tissue all over the place, and looked a lot better for it. And because I already experienced that many years ago, I know what would be possible for me were I where he's at. I also know that mine was not an isolated case.

That's what I would do for me. What he does should be in support of his goals. There'd be nothing wrong, for example, with him staying 141 lbs and trying to become the leanest meanest strongest 141 lb person on the planet, if that's what he wanted. It'd be comparable to athletes in weight-class sports. But there'd also be nothing wrong about him bulking (again, meaning gaining weight at a smart pace in the presence of consistent strength training; not eating 10,000 calories a day) to start growing muscle right now, if he decides he'd like to be bigger.

-

So - My goals are to become as athletic as I can (I am big on relative strength stuff, being flexible, and being able to move stuff around in the real world).

I have a vacation coming up in just under 3 weeks. I have been lifting on and off for the past few months, and pretty solidly for the past month. This is me trying to get a little bit of abs before throwing a swimsuit on :).

Also - I feel like it will be beneficial to get leaner because the leaner I am, I am thinking it the easier it will be to see changes in my weekly/bi monthly photos which will help keep my momentum going.

 

 

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Also - I feel like it will be beneficial to get leaner because the leaner I am, I am thinking it the easier it will be to see changes in my weekly/bi monthly photos which will help keep my momentum going.

This is a very good point. Its hard to be motivated by muscle you can't see unless you are motivated by your lifting numbers, and you don't seem to be bothered by that.

Having said that, you would probably see progress now, you're not really that fat like others said.

Your choice :-)

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This is a very good point. Its hard to be motivated by muscle you can't see unless you are motivated by your lifting numbers, and you don't seem to be bothered by that.

This is a true story....

I also really hate the feeling of letting people down, or feeling like I failed at a task. This is actually one of the issues I had when I first started lifting, and still do to some extent... Going to muscle failure feels like, well, failure. Anyways, putting this out there for people to see, and having people being curious as to my results will help provide extra motivation to stick to it, minimize cheating, and exercise hard so I can have something to show to the people who are paying attention to this.

Speaking of which... time to go run....

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There ya go!  A clear goal. :D

 

Just be careful.  A PSMF type diet can be dangerous.  Be smart about it.  Statements like "protein shake only days" make me nervous for you.

Oh yes, I am being careful and making sure to pay very close attention to my body. I am a pretty healthy person already, and know my body pretty well. As of right now my line in the sand is severe headache, dizziness, or abnormal weakness. If those happen I will immediate go grub on some veggies, lean mean, and a little fruit. I'm keeping a cliff bar with me at all times in case I start feeling weird and don't have immediate access to regular food. I'm big on mitigating risks :P

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