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SoloisticDrew

How Thibault cancels out Capoferro, and why you really should study your Agrippa.

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Inigo is the Johnny Lawrence (i.e. the real Karate Kid) of The Princess Bride. Also Apollo Creed. After 20 years, some punk-assed farm boy walks in and beats him out of nowhere just because he happens to be the protagonist.

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Yeah, one pirate ship. For three years. Inigo spent 10 years training under masters from Venice to Bruges to Budapest. He claimed to have spent 50'000 hours "studying the sword" and 22'000 on physical conditioning to improve his swordsmanship, and attained a level that most take at least 30 years to achieve. He then spent 5 years challenging every champion he could find, besting them all with ease, until he eventually became bored. He was a fencing Wizard--the only one alive at the time. And even though it was a very close match in the book, Cary Elwes seems to dispatch him quite effortlessly in the movie. If Westley theoretically spent 24 hours each day every day learning to fence with the pirates, he would only have logged in a little over half what Inigo (who was a fencing genius to begin with) did, and under a limited talent pool. (He obviously didn't, because he had to learn as much as he could about seamanship the first year in order to stay useful and not be killed. In the two subsequent years, being first mate and then captain, I imagine he didn't have much time to learn swordfighting, with all the administrative duties he must have had to take care of, besides all the looting. And unless you're Makoto Nagano, I imagine a ship isn't really an ideal learning environment, with all the sea sickness and the isolation and the scurvy and stuff.) That would be the equivalent of some small-town boxer fighting Floyd Mayweather Jr. on his debut and expecting an easy win. It just sends the wrong message.

 

As a martial artist I die a little inside whenever some newbie with misplaced enthusiasm shrugs off the basic [boring] repetitive drills and tries to look for that secret special move that would make them unbeatable. Their proverbial crane kick. Or the Mister Miyagi who would put them in a training montage and allow them to beat an opponent who has been training all his life just because they have "heart" (whatever that means). The montage generation.

 

But I guess the whole point of The Princess Bride was that superior fighting skill, strength, intellect, and even death is no match for true love. Love conquers all (Which is absolutely bullshit, since love wasn't enough for Alexis to stay with me. It wasn't even enough for her to quit meth and stripping.).

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Johnny Lawrence lost because he was taught all the wrong lessons, Inigo lost, probably because he has no actual desire to win, Westly isn't the six fingered man, Creed was paid to take a dive, as we find out when Rocky is challenged by Clubber Lang.

 

Whatever the reasons, I think Daniel got lucky. At first, I'm thinking "Was John Kreese running a McDojo?", but no, his guys had won the All Valley tournament, for awhile, before pipsqueak Laruso showed up.

 

Ooh, let's not forget Kickboxer, when JCVD destroys the MT champ, when his brother was better than him by far and got crippled by the guy...

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Johnny Lawrence lost because he was taught all the wrong lessons, Inigo lost, probably because he has no actual desire to win, Westly isn't the six fingered man, Creed was paid to take a dive, as we find out when Rocky is challenged by Clubber Lang.

 

Whatever the reasons, I think Daniel got lucky. At first, I'm thinking "Was John Kreese running a McDojo?", but no, his guys had won the All Valley tournament, for awhile, before pipsqueak Laruso showed up.

 

Ooh, let's not forget Kickboxer, when JCVD destroys the MT champ, when his brother was better than him by far and got crippled by the guy...

 

I don't think Cobra Kai was a McDojo. Johnny was legit, and Daniel got lucky and won by sheer surprise. Likely to happen, but it still sends the wrong message to aspiring martial artists who keep looking for that perfect secret technique. People who try to learn the Berimbolo and the Worm Guard but can't escape a headlock. Everybody knows how to do the Juji Gatame. But when Ronda Rousey or Shinya Aoki does it, it becomes a special move.

 

Inigo did have a reason to win. After joining the Sicilian Crowd he kicked his depression and alcoholism. Losing to the Dread Pirate Roberts would mean death, meaning he would never be able to find the six-fingered man. Not dying was his motivation. The point of the movie was that true love conquers all, even superior fencing skill. This also sends the wrong message.

 

With Apollo, I didn't catch that. Who said he took a dive?

 

However, you can't question the legitimacy of JCVD. That is blasphemy.

 

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True, Johnny was legit. Daniel could win by luck, but there' no way he should have survived #2 and in #3, the guy intentionally kept the score 0-0, so he really beat himself. I agree that it does send the wrong message, although in #3, I think the message of "practice the basics", was pretty sold, since Daniel won because he practiced his katas. 

 

I'll concede on the Inigo part, Vizzini was his chance to fi the six fingered man and it did help him kick alcoholism.

 

I guess Apollo didn't take a dive, had to rewatch the clip. Rocky talks about having ten title defenses and Mickey says they were all has beens. Basically just giving him jobbers, which I thought extended to Creed in the first movie, but I guess it didn't.

 

I don't question the legitimacy of JCVD, just the legitimacy of him beating the Muay Thai champion, with  hardly any experience. I don't even want to remember him as Guile, though. ONly movies of his I can even think of that I enjoyed were Universal Soldier and Lionheart. 

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True, Johnny was legit. Daniel could win by luck, but there' no way he should have survived #2 and in #3, the guy intentionally kept the score 0-0, so he really beat himself. I agree that it does send the wrong message, although in #3, I think the message of "practice the basics", was pretty sold, since Daniel won because he practiced his katas. 

 

I'll concede on the Inigo part, Vizzini was his chance to fi the six fingered man and it did help him kick alcoholism.

 

I guess Apollo didn't take a dive, had to rewatch the clip. Rocky talks about having ten title defenses and Mickey says they were all has beens. Basically just giving him jobbers, which I thought extended to Creed in the first movie, but I guess it didn't.

 

I don't question the legitimacy of JCVD, just the legitimacy of him beating the Muay Thai champion, with  hardly any experience. I don't even want to remember him as Guile, though. ONly movies of his I can even think of that I enjoyed were Universal Soldier and Lionheart. 

 

Never saw the third KK. Then there's the Hilary Swank one, right? Haha. Sequels to underdog stories are such bummers sometimes. The guy they based Rocky on never did become champion, I think.

 

The JCVD worship is sarcasm, of course. (Just like all my Nicholas Cage comments. Not really.)

 

jean_claude_got_moves.gif

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Boy have I been misinformed... maybe I just thought it... anyways, that Chuck guy couldn't box worth a damn. It looked like he was a slugger with barely and knowledge of the sweet science. No wonder he never became champ.

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Apparently that bastard Stallone tried to pass it off as that (Marciano), though Marciano didn't have 23 damn losses. I don't know the whole story, but I guess he was finally recognized as the initial inspiration. I can't say anything about his boxing ability though. The guy boxed professionally for 14 years (35-14-2), which is a lot more experience than most people, and was at least a state champ multiple times. I boxed professionally once and I know it takes quite a bit just to get there. Besides, boxing back then looks a lot different from boxing now. There seemed to be a lot less focus on finesse and more on just plain trying to knock a guy's head off. Try watching footage of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Jake LaMotta, or even Rocky Marciano. Any armchair athlete can nitpick their boxing technique without any problem, but these guys were legendary boxers.

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I only nitpick because I've been boxing for 15 years. Never had any inclination to take it anywhere, though.  There are differences in being a slugger and a finesse boxer. A lot of the aforementioned guys started off as sluggers. Especially Dempsey, when he was taking bareknuckle fights that weren't all that uncommon to go 60-70, sometimes even 100 rounds.  Dempsey finally met his match when the more technically sound Gene Tunney.

It takes an armchair athlete to call others armchair athletes, on the internet, though. You can call them legendary, but in fifty years, people may well call Linsay Lohan a "legendary actress". it's a pretty meaningless title.

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To be clear, I'm not calling anyone in particular an armchair athlete; I'm referring to the concept of the armchair athlete in general (and how they can easily nitpick the aforementioned boxers' techniques). It's always a hasty conclusion to make, but I acknowledge the concept to exist because I refuse to believe that every person on the internet critiquing JMM's technique is correct. They do exist.

 

But yeah, "legendary" may be a bit of a subjective adjective to use. But those four guys previously mentioned, no matter how bad their technique may apparently be, were world champions. And in the future, when robots take over, or when the aliens obliterate us, or when a supernova finally swallows the earth, that title will also be meaningless. But in the meantime, world champion is still an important title in the sport. Besides, Jack Johnson was an OG pimp, and Lindsay Lohan has that list of people she banged.

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I'm sorry if I took offense and assumed you were calling me an armchair athlete. I am not that, I am an armchair movie director, though.

The aliens are our friends, the war will be aliens vs. robots and we'll just be wiped out in the crossfire.

I'm not denying JJ's talent, he had so much natural athleticism, that he probably would have succeeded in any sport of his choosing in his prime.

Maybe I'm just biased on form, because I fight out of peekaboo and bull rush like Tyson, so I always keep my hands up and feel the form is falling apart if the hands come down.

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I'm sorry if I took offense and assumed you were calling me an armchair athlete. I am not that, I am an armchair movie director, though.

The aliens are our friends, the war will be aliens vs. robots and we'll just be wiped out in the crossfire.

I'm not denying JJ's talent, he had so much natural athleticism, that he probably would have succeeded in any sport of his choosing in his prime.

Maybe I'm just biased on form, because I fight out of peekaboo and bull rush like Tyson, so I always keep my hands up and feel the form is falling apart if the hands come down.

 

Haha, Yes. Armchair movie director. That Keanu Reeves guy needs to learn how to act.

 

I don't think there's anything intrinsically or morally wrong with being an armchair athlete though. Professional sports only exist because of the spectators, and I believe that the consumers have a right to voice what they would want to be paying for. Most states don't ban free speech anyway. I just don't personally feel right doing it myself. Hell, I can't even coach a guy I'm supposed to be coaching. (I doubt "breathe" is helpful advice to someone who is just getting pounded round after round.)

 

You think? The aliens would probably be pissed off too. They'd have to take care of Skynet, which we put online in the first place. "What the hell did you guys do? We left you these pyramids and stonehenge and shit, and now we have to clean up after you?" If they win we will owe them big time. There will be a lot of probings to follow.

 

I started out as a brawler, mostly trained to go straight to pro. Amateur boxing seems to be a completely different game, and I only modified my style to be more of an in-fighter when I was under a trainer with an extensive amateur background. Short stocky guys don't have much of a choice but to close the distance.

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Haha, Yes. Armchair movie director. That Keanu Reeves guy needs to learn how to act.

 

I don't think there's anything intrinsically or morally wrong with being an armchair athlete though. Professional sports only exist because of the spectators, and I believe that the consumers have a right to voice what they would want to be paying for. Most states don't ban free speech anyway. I just don't personally feel right doing it myself. Hell, I can't even coach a guy I'm supposed to be coaching. (I doubt "breathe" is helpful advice to someone who is just getting pounded round after round.)

 

Ha, reminds me of Peter Griffin. Peter: "'Punch him! Punch him again! Punch him now! Again! Now you're getting punched! Get out of the way! Punch him!'" *ding*  Peter: "You know what I'm gonna say.", Boxer: "I need to punch him?"  Peter:"You need to puch him."

 

You think? The aliens would probably be pissed off too. They'd have to take care of Skynet, which we put online in the first place. "What the hell did you guys do? We left you these pyramids and stonehenge and shit, and now we have to clean up after you?" If they win we will owe them big time. There will be a lot of probings to follow.

 

Well, they didn't so much LEAVE us the pyramids as they did enslave us and make us build them.  I actually think it'll be a set up. It will look like the robots are against us; the aliens will come to protect their investments(organ harvesting, hybrid baby making, etc.) and when they land, we use the robots, who were always under our control, to enslave the aliens.  They've spent a lot of time in space, they're going to have to put on some muscle. Lifting a few  ton blocks should do it. We could use a few new pyramids.

 

I started out as a brawler, mostly trained to go straight to pro. Amateur boxing seems to be a completely different game, and I only modified my style to be more of an in-fighter when I was under a trainer with an extensive amateur background. Short stocky guys don't have much of a choice but to close the distance.

 

screw the taller guys. They are why i started bull rushing. Gotta keep moving when inside, though. They like to clinch and make you hold them up to drain you. Cheap, tall bastards.

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I'll be an armchair life coach for a second. I have mixed respect for striking sport guys. Pro strikers are tough, that's the appeal of those sports from the spectator's standpoint.

 

But, I mean, if you keep winning, you keep getting better opponents. No matter how hard you train, someone will eventually be able to beat you. Time is undefeated. A loss in most sports is no more painful or damaging than a win. But not in striking sports.

 

I'll just keep pillow fighting and light contact sparring. As long as I could kick my own ass if I went back in time six months, that's enough progress for me.

 

Anyway, you pro striking guys are tough. I just hope you seriously thought about the cost over the long haul.

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