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Oramac

Part 1: From Dark Helmet to Darth Oramac

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Thanks for all the encouragement everyone!!

 

So, Day 1 of the 20-Rep Squat Challenge.  I'll write it out, in order, and put my thoughts at the bottom in a TL;DR.

 

Breakfast:

 

1 Apple: 95 calories; .3g fat; 25g carbs; .5g protein.

 

Lunch:

 

NF Chicken Stir-Fry with Rice: Calories: 459.64; Carbs: 64.35g; Protein: 43.076g; Fat: 10.68g

 

Snack: 

 

1 XS Energy Drink, Summit Blast flavor: 12 calories; 0g fat; 1g carbs; 2g protein.

Dinner:

 

1 Protein Shake: 2 cups milk and 1 scoop Nutrilite Chocolate Whey Protein Powder: 410 calories; 11g Fat; 33g Carbs; 42g Protein

 

3 Chicken/cheese Quesadillas (total for all 3): 1425 Calories; 67.5g Fat; 139.5g Carb; 55.5g Protein.

 

Daily total consumed:  2401.64 Calories; 89.48g Fat; 262.85g Carbs; 143.07g Protein

EDIT: I have no idea what those food totals actually mean.  Haha.  If anyone smarter than I wants to weigh in (very punny), I'm all ears! 

However, if you need a quick data visualization, here you go! The percentages are probably good to have if an app hasn't given them to you already.

 

Oramac-6-9-15.png

 

Hm.  Depends on what you want those totals to mean.

 

If I recall, you're kind of a thin guy already.  So if you're wanting to get stronger/bigger I might say ramp up the calories and the protein by a bit.  The calories will help fuel the workout, and the protein will help build muscle.  The 140 grams of protein, in my mind, seems low.  I aim for 130g and that's like my bare bones minimum at this point (while on a cut/deficit). But then again you're in the 180s, right?  Maybe 140g is fine for you.

 

Then again, if you want to lose weight/body fat, I'd say everything you have there is perfectly fine, though you may be able to pull back on some of the calories you have to increase the deficit and help lose weight/fat faster.  I still might suggest trying to bump up protein a bit, but 140 is a pretty solid if you're running a deficit at your weight.

 

Anyway, tying back to what Kishi said, it's a lot about tweaking and finding what works for you.  Personally I can maintain my weight when I eat ~2800 calories a day, and feel pretty good eating 40-50% fat, 20-25% protein, and the rest as carbs.  Practically I tend to do an even split between all three most of the week.  My light and/or rest days I tend to eat more fat.  Just works well for me.

 

Hope that helps!

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I mean, it doesn't look bad. If you're doing this over the long haul then it'll be a while before you can tell if this particular macro arrangement works for you or not.

 

So... it doesn't mean anything. Yet.

 

Training sounds like it was tough. Mastering 20 reps of a move will definitely make you stronger for sure. Can't wait to see how this goes. :)

 

Thanks!  Yea, that's part of the reason I'm shooting for 100% tracking this week.  I need to establish a baseline.  

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes too!  

 

Very nice workout! I don't know enough about macros to help you out with that, but what you ate looks tasty, if that helps?

 

Also, very soon you will be straight-leg DL-ing and pressing my entire bodyweight. xD Impressed I am. 

 

Thanks!  It is very tasty!  Especially the shake.  

 

I know better than to ask a woman her weight, but thank you!  This plan is focused on squats, but I'm hoping to see some gains in the upper body too. 

 

Lookin' good, man! Like the others, I have no real idea what the numbers mean, but I think Kishi has it right. You've got to figure out what works for you, and the only way to figure that out is to do it and tweak if something isn't working.

 

However, if you need a quick data visualization, here you go! The percentages are probably good to have if an app hasn't given them to you already.

 

Oramac-6-9-15.png

 

I go old school with my workouts/tracking and use a pen and paper.  Haha.  So no apps.  Thanks for the graph!  I didn't realize the carbs were that big a percentage of my food.  Of course, probably half of those are from the tortilla's I used for the quesadillas.  I still use flour tortillas because corn tortillas are the evil spawn of Satan.  Seriously, they taste effing TERRIBLE!  

 

Hm.  Depends on what you want those totals to mean.

 

If I recall, you're kind of a thin guy already.  So if you're wanting to get stronger/bigger I might say ramp up the calories and the protein by a bit.  The calories will help fuel the workout, and the protein will help build muscle.  The 140 grams of protein, in my mind, seems low.  I aim for 130g and that's like my bare bones minimum at this point (while on a cut/deficit). But then again you're in the 180s, right?  Maybe 140g is fine for you.

 

Then again, if you want to lose weight/body fat, I'd say everything you have there is perfectly fine, though you may be able to pull back on some of the calories you have to increase the deficit and help lose weight/fat faster.  I still might suggest trying to bump up protein a bit, but 140 is a pretty solid if you're running a deficit at your weight.

 

Anyway, tying back to what Kishi said, it's a lot about tweaking and finding what works for you.  Personally I can maintain my weight when I eat ~2800 calories a day, and feel pretty good eating 40-50% fat, 20-25% protein, and the rest as carbs.  Practically I tend to do an even split between all three most of the week.  My light and/or rest days I tend to eat more fat.  Just works well for me.

 

Hope that helps!

 

That helps a lot!!  I'm actually a bit heavier than that.  I weigh right about 200 pounds, give or take.  But even so, my protein is definitely way too low.  I am trying to gain muscle (and therefore weight), so I'll have to up that after I establish my baseline.  

 

Seems like the short version (after one day!) is that I need to eat more.  

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I have nothing to add food wise; looks like you got plenty of great tips and advice and agree with upping the protein a bit more!  I also like that graph thingie!  That pie chart thingie is awesome and now I'm gonna try and make a pie chart of my own!

 

Also, awesome workout :).

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I go old school with my workouts/tracking and use a pen and paper.  Haha.  So no apps.  Thanks for the graph!  I didn't realize the carbs were that big a percentage of my food.  Of course, probably half of those are from the tortilla's I used for the quesadillas.  I still use flour tortillas because corn tortillas are the evil spawn of Satan.  Seriously, they taste effing TERRIBLE!  

 

Data visualization really helps me--glad it could help you too! =)

 

Also, yes. Corn tortillas are the devil. THE DEVIL.

 

Actually, come to think of it, the devil probably has better taste than that.

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Nice workout! :D

 

I don't remember if I told you, but those energy drinks you sent me are AMAZING!!!

 

I remembered when I saw it on your tracking and was like "mmmmmmmmmmmm......"

 

They are perfect for my 12 hours shifts at work!

 

Thanks again! :D

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I have nothing to add food wise; looks like you got plenty of great tips and advice and agree with upping the protein a bit more!  I also like that graph thingie!  That pie chart thingie is awesome and now I'm gonna try and make a pie chart of my own!

 

Also, awesome workout :).

 

Thanks!! The graph was way more helpful that I thought it would be.  I'll probably keep doing that!  Definitely make one for yourself too if you want! 

 

Data visualization really helps me--glad it could help you too! =)

 

Also, yes. Corn tortillas are the devil. THE DEVIL.

 

Actually, come to think of it, the devil probably has better taste than that.

 

The Devil, I tell you!!  

 

Nice workout! :D

 

I don't remember if I told you, but those energy drinks you sent me are AMAZING!!!

 

I remembered when I saw it on your tracking and was like "mmmmmmmmmmmm......"

 

They are perfect for my 12 hours shifts at work!

 

Thanks again! :D

 

You're welcome!!  I'm glad they helped!  You know we can get you more if you like, right?  ;)  

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Ok, so day 2 is in the books.  Today was a rest day.  Yay.  

 

Food!

 

Breakfast: 

1 Apple: 95 calories; .3g fat; 25g carbs; .5g protein.

 

Lunch: 

NF Chicken Stir-Fry with Rice: Calories: 459.64; Carbs: 64.35g; Protein: 43.076g; Fat: 10.68g

1 XS Energy Drink, Summit Blast flavor: 12 calories; 0g fat; 1g carbs; 2g protein.

 

Dinner: 

Breaded chicken and Rice: 1026 Calories; 39g Fat; 126g carbs; 35g Protein.

 

Daily total:

 

Calories: 1592.64

Fat: 49.98g

Carbs: 216.35

Protein: 80.57

 

 

Ok, so yea, no wonder I'm not seeing DEM GAINZ.  I ain't eating squat!  Haha.  

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REST DAY IS THE BEST DAY!!! :D.

 

 

Ok, so yea, no wonder I'm not seeing DEM GAINZ.  I ain't eating squat!  Haha.  

 

Yeah. If you want gainz, you gotta get your eatz.

 

Sounds like it's time to up some fooding!

when-can-we-start-eating.gif

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Yeah. If you want gainz, you gotta get your eatz.

Sounds like it's time to up some fooding!

when-can-we-start-eating.gif

 

Haha.  Yes!  I'm actually debating on even bothering to use the rest of this week as a baseline.  The last 2 days were pretty typical for me over the last year or so (give or take).  So I'm not sure there's more info to gain from baseline data. 

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All right.  Got sidetracked and didn't post yesterday.  So here's yesterday’s info!  

 

Breakfast:

1 Apple: 95 calories; .3g fat; 25g carbs; .5g protein.

 

Lunch:

NF Chicken Stir-Fry with Rice: Calories: 459.64; Carbs: 64.35g; Protein: 43.076g; Fat: 10.68g

 

Snack:

1 XS Energy Drink, Summit Blast flavor: 12 calories; 0g fat; 1g carbs; 2g protein.

1 Nutrilite Cookies & Cream Protein bar: 300 calories; 12g fat; 28g carbs; 24g protein.  

 

Gym:

 

Squats: 5 reps bodyweight; 5 reps with the bar; 20 reps at 80 pounds. 

Pullovers: 15 reps at 25 pounds.

Straight-Leg Deadlift: 15 reps at 140 pounds

Pullovers: 20 reps at 25 pounds.

Bench Press: 3x10 at 135 pounds; I owed myself only 3 this time, and did an extra rep for giggles.  

Bent-Row: 3x15 reps at 95 pounds.  

Military Press: 3x12 reps at 75 pounds. 

 

Dinner:

2 Protein Shakes: 2 cups milk and 1 scoop Nutrilite Chocolate Whey Protein Powder: 410 calories; 11g Fat; 33g Carbs; 42g Protein (all x2)

3 Chicken/cheese Quesadillas (total for all 3): 1425 Calories; 67.5g Fat; 139.5g Carb; 55.5g Protein.

 

Total Daily:

3111 calories; 112.48g Fat; 323.85g Carbs; 209.07g Protein.   Barely enough protein.  Dammit.  

 

 

Overall, this one felt much better than Monday!  It doesn’t seem like much, but I think moving the XS to the afternoon snack and adding the protein bar really helped.  Plus, I hit 95 for all 3 sets of the Bent-Row!!  Woot!  Didn’t think I could do it, and the last few reps were really hard, but I got it!

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YES FOOD GLORIOUS FOOD

 

I too am slowly learning that eating moar is not only ok but KIND OF NECESSARY for those gainz.  And now I want 50 chicken/cheese quesadillas.  Noooommmmm.

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I go old school with my workouts/tracking and use a pen and paper.  Haha.  So no apps.  Thanks for the graph!  I didn't realize the carbs were that big a percentage of my food.  Of course, probably half of those are from the tortilla's I used for the quesadillas.  I still use flour tortillas because corn tortillas are the evil spawn of Satan.  Seriously, they taste effing TERRIBLE!  

 

That helps a lot!!  I'm actually a bit heavier than that.  I weigh right about 200 pounds, give or take.  But even so, my protein is definitely way too low.  I am trying to gain muscle (and therefore weight), so I'll have to up that after I establish my baseline.  

 

It makes sense that carbs a big percent of your food.  You're pretty active, and as you become more active your body kinda works better with more carbs to pull energy from.  I would bet that when you have a rest day your carb percentage is a bit lower. (My active days I'm around those percentages, but on rest days my fat percentage skyrockets to ~40-50% of my intake.)

 

Also I totally thought you were much lighter than me.  Now I'm jealous that you're as lean as you are so close to the same weight I am. :P (Then again I think you're taller, so that helps in your favor.)  One of these days I'll get to 200.  One of these days...

 

But yea, eat more, gain more.

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Thanks RP!  Yea, the carbs make sense.  Though even on rest days my fat intake doesn't really go up so much.  I just don't eat a lot of foods with that much fat in them.  :/  Most of the fat in those quesadilla's comes from the pre-cooked chicken patties I use out of convenience.  I could pretty easily drop it even lower by switching those out for cooking my own chicken (which is what I do for the NF stir-fry and some other things).  

 

I'm 6'4" too, if it matters.  

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All right.  Yesterday’s rest day was mostly the same as Tuesday, but I’ll log it here anyway. 

 

Breakfast:

1 Apple: 95 calories; .3g fat; 25g carbs; .5g protein.

 

Lunch:

NF Chicken Stir-Fry with Rice: Calories: 459.64; Carbs: 64.35g; Protein: 43.076g; Fat: 10.68g

 

Snack:

1 XS Energy Drink, Summit Blast flavor: 12 calories; 0g fat; 1g carbs; 2g protein.

1 Nutrilite Cookies & Cream Protein bar: 300 calories; 12g fat; 28g carbs; 24g protein.  

 

Dinner:

3 Chicken/cheese Quesadillas (total for all 3): 1425 Calories; 67.5g Fat; 139.5g Carb; 55.5g Protein.

 

Totals:

2291 Calories; 90.48g Fat; 257.85g Carbs; 125g protein

 

 

So here’s a question: if I eat a lot on workout days, and eat at a deficit on rest days (which seems to be happening), how does that affect muscle gain?  I’m guessing it’s bad, but I really don’t know. 

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So here’s a question: if I eat a lot on workout days, and eat at a deficit on rest days (which seems to be happening), how does that affect muscle gain?  I’m guessing it’s bad, but I really don’t know. 

 

I too, am interested to know this.  Not that I'm eating at a deficit on non-workout days right now, but I do eat more for sure on workout days than not...

 

*sits at schooldesk and waits patiently for dat sweet sweet knowledge*

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Hm.

 

My guess is it would slow muscle gain.  On workout days you eat more partially to fuel the workout.  But on rest days you need the food to fuel repair of the tissues.  Less food means less fuel which presumably means less effective repair, which I imagine means it takes longer, too.

 

Ripp says in Starting Strength you need to eat a lot, even on the off days.  I'll see if I can find the exact points he mentioned after I do a few tasks here at work.  But I'd say definitely keep the food up.  Not as high as workout days, but still a bit above maintenance.  Waldo's Strength Unbound blog probably has a lot of solid science on it, too.

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Offhand, I'd say it sounds like you're naturally drifting toward the idea of a recomp diet when you do that. This is a thing you see a lot in fat loss programs and things like that. Incidentally, this is also what the original Leangains protocol was based on - on days when you lift weight, you go low-fat, high-carb, and high-calorie, like to the tune of 3000-4000 calories. On rest days, you drop down to your BMR or even a little below that and go high-fat.

 

The idea behind such diets is that you're trying to have your cake and eat it too: you go high on lifting days to maximize your recovery, then you go low on resting days to maximize your fat burning.

 

How effective is it? I don't know. Most of the gurus I've read say that shooting for a consistent caloric intake all the time is bad, and they generally recommend such a cycle of timing your energy intake around your training. I know for me, personally, I've found that cycling energy has proven useful, but my context is way different than yours - I'm all bodyweight, all the time, and I get a lot of steps in during the day, and furthermore I'm training anywhere from 1-3 times a day. So I don't really know if you can use my experience to inform your data.

 

Waldo and Rippetoe are probably your best bets in terms of figuring out what's going on for you. I'd say you should check out Martin Berkhan and John Berardi as well just for funsies.

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Hm.

 

My guess is it would slow muscle gain.  On workout days you eat more partially to fuel the workout.  But on rest days you need the food to fuel repair of the tissues.  Less food means less fuel which presumably means less effective repair, which I imagine means it takes longer, too.

 

Ripp says in Starting Strength you need to eat a lot, even on the off days.  I'll see if I can find the exact points he mentioned after I do a few tasks here at work.  But I'd say definitely keep the food up.  Not as high as workout days, but still a bit above maintenance.  Waldo's Strength Unbound blog probably has a lot of solid science on it, too.

Offhand, I'd say it sounds like you're naturally drifting toward the idea of a recomp diet when you do that. This is a thing you see a lot in fat loss programs and things like that. Incidentally, this is also what the original Leangains protocol was based on - on days when you lift weight, you go low-fat, high-carb, and high-calorie, like to the tune of 3000-4000 calories. On rest days, you drop down to your BMR or even a little below that and go high-fat.

 

The idea behind such diets is that you're trying to have your cake and eat it too: you go high on lifting days to maximize your recovery, then you go low on resting days to maximize your fat burning.

 

How effective is it? I don't know. Most of the gurus I've read say that shooting for a consistent caloric intake all the time is bad, and they generally recommend such a cycle of timing your energy intake around your training. I know for me, personally, I've found that cycling energy has proven useful, but my context is way different than yours - I'm all bodyweight, all the time, and I get a lot of steps in during the day, and furthermore I'm training anywhere from 1-3 times a day. So I don't really know if you can use my experience to inform your data.

 

Waldo and Rippetoe are probably your best bets in terms of figuring out what's going on for you. I'd say you should check out Martin Berkhan and John Berardi as well just for funsies.

 

Thanks guys!  I can always trust the Monks to have a plethora of information.  Must be all that time chilling in the Monastery up on the mountainside!  

 

Right now, I'm leaning towards just upping my calories/carbs/protein all the time, and either maintaining or lowering my fat, depending on whether I trained that day or not.  The other side is, since I have another Tough Mudder coming up in October, I'm doing a little distance running as well.  (Well, distance for me, which is like 3-4 miles, max. haha)

 

Also, Kishi, can I have cake?  Please?!  :D 

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Ok, incoming wall of text.  You have been warned!!  

 

Friday was good.  Odd, but good.  Tracking:

 

Breakfast:

1 Apple: 95 calories; .3g fat; 25g carbs; .5g protein.

 

Lunch:

NF Chicken Stir-Fry with Rice: Calories: 459.64; Carbs: 64.35g; Protein: 43.076g; Fat: 10.68g

 

Snack: 

1 XS Energy Drink, Summit Blast flavor: 12 calories; 0g fat; 1g carbs; 2g protein.

1 Nutrilite Cookies & Cream Protein bar: 300 calories; 12g fat; 28g carbs; 24g protein.  

 

Gym:

 

Squats: 1 set of 5 bodyweight; 1 set of 5 with bar; 1 set of 20 at 85 pounds.

Pullovers: 1 set of 20 at 25 pounds

Straight-leg deadlifts: 1 set of 15 at 145 pounds

Pullovers: 1 set of 20 at 25 pounds

Bench Press: 1 set with bar; 2x10 at 135; 2x5 at 135.  More on this later.

Bent Row: 3x10 at 95. 

Military Press: 3x12 at 80.  Yay! 

 

Dinner: 

2 Protein Shakes: 2 cups milk and 1 scoop Nutrilite Chocolate Whey Protein Powder: 410 calories; 11g Fat; 33g Carbs; 42g Protein (all x2)

3 Chicken/cheese Quesadillas (total for all 3): 1425 Calories; 67.5g Fat; 139.5g Carb; 55.5g Protein.

 

Totals:

 

Calories: 3111.64

Carbs: 323.85g

Fat: 112.48g

Protein: 209.076g

 

=================================

 

Analysis!!!

 

Ok, so the food is looking better, on workout days at least.  I feel like my fat intake is too high, but that's probably just because I rarely eat fatty foods in the first place.  Protein is barely there on lifting days, and way low on off days.  This is gonna be tough to fix (which is to say, expensive.  haha).  

 

Workout!!  This was weird.  During squats my right arm started to fall asleep a little bit.  Nothing I couldn't handle, just a little tingly.  But then on Bench Press, I damn near failed the last reps on my last 2 sets (the 2 sets of 5).  My shoulder/upper arm just didn't want to cooperate and lift the fuckin bar.  I knew I had the strength to do it, at least for another 2-3 reps, but the arm just didn't like me.  

 

Then on the Bent Rows and Mil Press, my arm/wrist were popping just a tiny bit.  This is actually normal.  It's been happening pretty much all my life.  Or, at least since I broke my arm playing street hockey.  But anyway.  I just noticed it again during those 2 exercises for some reason.  I'm thinking I should probably stretch a bit more than I have been, though I've been told more than once that stretching before exercise is bad, but stretching after is good.  I kinda fell off the bandwagon and haven't been stretching at all though.  So I ought to bring that back I guess.  

 

EDIT: and I just realized I've been slightly doing the workout wrong!  haha.  It calls for the "Standing Military Press", which is basically just the Overhead Press.  But I misread it and have been doing the Seated Military Press, which is more like an angled Bench Press.  So I'll be changing that too!  

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Mm. Sounds like you have some nerve stuff going on in there. That's interesting. You'll want to get that checked out if you can.

 

Also, if you're looking for more protein, one possibility might be to check out MyProtein. They score really high in independent analysis of their products and it's cheap too. Also: eggs, cottage cheese, chicken breasts (ALL THE CHICKEN BREASTS). Maybe organ meat too if you can find some.

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Mm. Sounds like you have some nerve stuff going on in there. That's interesting. You'll want to get that checked out if you can.

 

Also, if you're looking for more protein, one possibility might be to check out MyProtein. They score really high in independent analysis of their products and it's cheap too. Also: eggs, cottage cheese, chicken breasts (ALL THE CHICKEN BREASTS). Maybe organ meat too if you can find some.

hi :) and beef is higher in protein than chicken, and dark meat chicken is higher than white meat chicken.

 

Thanks, both of you!

 

I actually already supplement protein using my Nutrilite powders/bars.  I just haven't ever really eaten much before now, I guess.  : /  

 

I'm already planning to buy a bunch more chicken, and once I clear out some of the fridge/freezer I'll be buying a lot more beef too.  

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So a little late, but Week 1 wrap up! 

 

Lifting: 3/3

 

Tracking: 5/5

 

Lightsaber: 0/1

 

Overall: 8/9.  

 

That 8/9 is somewhat misleading.  I'm really mad at myself for not finding time to practice at all last week.  The worst part is, I had good reasons at the time, and for the life of me, I can't remember what they were.  Unacceptable.  

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