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Dradis

Critique my program please

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I've looked all the popular out of the box programs and none of them fit my goals and likes quite enough for me to pick one. So i'm having at my own one.

 

Goals wants:

Up my deadlift

Up my squat

Butt work (fits in with 2 above, my butt is tiny and useless)

Make some/any progress on overhead press

Add reps to dips til 3x15 then add weight

Add reps to chin ups til 3x10 then add weight

Continue shoulder health improvements

Do power cleans (because i've just started and i like them, and negates need for rack on OHP days)

Keep workouts short (lunch break gym goer)

No benching (dislike)

 

I'm using a sort the frequency method from greyskull for chins and pushups. So i'm doing them often without going near failure. So a bit like the PLP challenge without the L.

 

My plan is most based around greyskull. 3 lifting days per week, usually MWF......

 

TL/DR - Here's the plan

 

* Band pull apart complex every morning and evening (really helping with shoulder)

* 4 sets of pushups throughout day every day excluding saturday (not near failure, add a rep a day)

* 3 sets of chinups every weekday (no bar at home, not near failure, add a rep a day)

 

Week 1

Monday

Clean&Press (1 clean, 3 press for 3x7. So that is 63 presses, volume seems to be good for me) OHP (cleaned) supersetted with barbell glute bridge (all same weight for quickness, 3-5 sets)

Squat Front squat  (cleaned) (3-5 sets)

 

Tuesday

Cardio

 

Wednesday

Dips (3 sets)

Barbell Row (3x5)

Deadlift (1x5+)

 

Thursday

Cardio

 

Friday

Clean&Press (1 clean, 3 press for 3x7) OHP (cleaned) supersetted with barbell glute bridge (all same weight)

Squat (2x5, 1x5+)

 

Saturday

Bodyweight ab work

 

 

Week 2

Monday

Dips supersetted with barbell glute bridge

Squat Front squat (cleaned) (3-5 sets)

 

Tuesday

Cardio

 

Wednesday

Clean&Press (1 clean, 3 press for 3x7) OHP (cleaned) supersetted with barbell glute bridge (all same weight for quickness)

Deadlift (1x5+)

 

Thursday

Cardio

 

Friday

Dips supersetted with barbell glute bridge

Squat (2x5, 1x5+)

 

Saturday

Bodyweight ab work

 

 

Hope that all makes sense :)

 

Thanks for reading

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I'm curious about your stats, and your plan for nutrition (are you going to be eating to grow the butt, etc).

Question: not sure how this press thing is working exactly. It sounds like you're cleaning the bar only once every 21 presses, so that leaves you... holding the bar for most of your rests? Seems kind of exhausting, am I totally misunderstanding your plan here?

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I'm curious about your stats, and your plan for nutrition (are you going to be eating to grow the butt, etc).

Question: not sure how this press thing is working exactly. It sounds like you're cleaning the bar only once every 21 presses, so that leaves you... holding the bar for most of your rests? Seems kind of exhausting, am I totally misunderstanding your plan here?

 

1 clean then 3 presses, then down to the floor, reset  - that is one rep

3x7 of those. So in total it would be 21 cleans and 63 presses

Its pretty tiring, i can't do them all without mini-rests currently. So to complicate it even further the cleans are kind of a cluster set :)

 

What stats are you interested in? Here are some......

 

Male

34

82kg (~180lb)

~20-22% BF

 

Desk job :-(

 

Lifting since Sept (2014) and bodyweight stuff since Feb (2014)

 

Tore rotator cuff Nov 2014 (dips), so upper progress has been massively hindered by that.

 

Current lifts, after a fairly long period of no-progress:

DL - 100kg for 10 (working way back up after form tweak, got to 125kg for 5 before)

Squat - 102.5kg 3x5

OHP - complete toilet, i did the clean&presses with 30kg last time out

Dips - 3x8

Chins - 4 max, but can't do 3x4.

 

 

I'm not gonna be bulking right now due to my fat situation but i'm hoping that i can tap into some unharnessed noob gains for that area as its a muscle i think i struggle to activate well. So goal is more stronger glutes than bigger glutes.

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Well it looks pretty good for your goals. Dips are a great substitute for bench IMO. I was going to ask why the 3x15, but with the previously torn rotator cuff it makes sense.

Presses I don't know personally. If it works for you, then cool. Personally, with that much volume I'd burn out quick, probably stall, and then see gains after a rest week. 3x5 with OHP is rarely enough to see good progress, but OTOH you also want progress that is sustainable. So I like your rep scheme, but if it were me I'd probably go with something closer to 3x3 or 3x5, for a total of 27-45 reps.

(When I'm doing cluster reps or rest-pause work, I rely heavily on Prilepin's strength tables to choose total volume for the workout. Then I just use the rest-pause tricks to reach that volume. Oftentimes with rest-pause work, you can do much more in a single workout than your body is actually able to recover from efficiently. Using Prilepin makes sure I don't overreach.)

Looks good aside from that.

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Thanks.

Higher reps than is usually suggested and bodyweight moves seem to work a lot better for me on the upper body.

15s for dips is probably just til I add weight. Post injury I just want to ensure I've got a solid dipping foundation to build on. I'm doing similar (but even higher reps) for pushups before progressing those too.

Ideally I'd want to do handstand pushups but as you can see from my press weight I'm nowhere near that yet and while I'm out of pain now I still don't have the confidence in the shoulder to go down that route just yet.

I'll check out the tables you mention. Sounds useful. Cheers

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OK, let me get this right. Say you're using Prilepin and aiming for 8 reps, but you can't manage 8 reps with the exercise you're doing, you:

Rest-pause up to 8 in fewest sets you can.

Rest prescribed amount of time

Repeat for prescribed no. of sets.

Up difficulty when you can do 8 straight for prescribed no. of sets.

?

That's kinda what I'm doing for presses with 3x21. The cleans act as the rest. I'll see how I go with it for a few weeks before Prilepining it

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prelipins-chart.jpg

I use the Total Range column and set a volume goal for the workout.

Say I'm working very close to my 1RM and I can only do 1-3 reps in a set. That makes my optimal goal 7 reps for the workout. I would typically use cluster reps there. So I'd go just shy of failure, rest 5-10 seconds, and crank out 1-2 more reps. Usually that looks like: 2c2, so I actually got 4 reps out of that one set. I'd then rest for reals, and the next set would be as close to that as I could get. I just keep going until I hit 7, usually that takes at least 3 sets.

OTOH, if I'm doing something with lighter weights that's more volume-oriented (say 75% of my 1RM), I'd shoot for more like 18 reps in the workout. The fewer sets I can do it in the further away from my 1RM the weight is.

Hopefully this makes some sense. Basically, when I can do more than 30 reps total in a workout, it's usually time for me to add weight/intensity.

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Anyway, that's just how I guide my workouts. No reason not to try your method. If I did it, I'd wake up the day after feeling like my shoulders met the business end of a tire iron. If you have the same reaction, you can always switch things up later.

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Great info, thanks.

Yeah I'm gonna try my way for a bit, especially while easing back in to pressing and learning cleans.

I do like the more structured/sciencey way of your Prilepin method though.

How do you decide whether you work at 90%+ or 70%? Just based on whether you are aiming for strength or size at that particular time or do you mix all rep ranges in fairly frequently?

Sorry for all the questions.

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Last night my fiance told me I had "delicate looking shoulders" . Yeah thanks love!

So another thing I'm considering is some pre-exhaustion rear/lateral/front raises before presses to make sure delts are properly getting hit. That would definitely involve less pressing volume

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Thought about this some more and i think you're right regarding cleans&press. I mainly went down that route as i wanted a decent amount of cleans in my program. However, i have another solution with i think is better in more ways than one

 

Cleans&press just becomes pressing (based on the "Prilepin" hypertrophy table i found on t-nation, slightly higher reps). Using clusters to make the reps as you suggest. I will still clean when needed though.

 

Then, monday's squats become front squats, which i will also clean. So i can roughly keep my clean volume per week and clean+front squat should be more closely matched in weight in the long run than clean+ohp. 

That also gives me another day where i don't require the lesser-seen-squat-rack. My only need for a squat rack is now on friday, which is the least busiest day in the gym

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I'm aware there are no correct answers to what i'm about to ask, i'd just like to know what you'd do in these situations if you'd be so kind....

 

Using the tables from t-nation. Upper body using hypertrophy table, squats strength table:
https://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=4677737

 

Today's workout

 

Barbell rows - 3x10 with 60s rest

Dips - 12, 7, 4c2c2 with 60s rest

Squats (95% calculated 1RM) - 3, 2c1, 2 with 90s rest

 

Questions:
1 - What next for rows? By my calcs that put me in the <60% bracket for that weight. Should i up the 1RM i'm using and move onto a different %? Remain at same %? Should i have added another set?

 

2 - For dips should i have stopped at 10 for first set? Now i've got a benchmark i will try for 8+8+8 with 60s rest next time i think.

 

3 - Squats - I made a legit 7 reps with the minimum rest period according to Prilepen. So similar to rows should i recalc my 1RM and move on to a different % bracket? Different % bracket with same 1RM? Try again til i can get 10 reps?

 

Thanks

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I do like the more structured/sciencey way of your Prilepin method though.

How do you decide whether you work at 90%+ or 70%? Just based on whether you are aiming for strength or size at that particular time or do you mix all rep ranges in fairly frequently?

So I work with almost exclusively bodyweight moves these days, whereas the aspects of your program you’re still working on is mostly weights. The way I use Prilepin’s table grows out of that: I’m pigeonholed into a given intensity level by the progression until I can move onto the next step. So most of the time, I’m trying to progress with volume: moving a particular progression (like wall headstand pushups) from the 1-3 rep range up into the 8-10 range.

Moving up in weight or volume, either way = progress. It’s one of those facts that weightlifting trainers, who are very wedded to narrow rep ranges that may have worked well for them or the people they trained, are reluctant to admit. But if you could only do 7 squats in a workout at a given weight and now you can do 13, your 1RM has gone up.

If I were doing OHP instead of headstand pushups, I’d likely be playing around a little more with which category seemed to work best for me. What kind of strength do I want, where do I seem to find a groove, where do I progress the best, etc.

One of the frustrating things about the very low rep ranges is that progress can get bogged down in form issues. When you’re lifting so much weight that you can’t do more than two reps, it’s very likely that your second rep could be bad form. Beginners are discouraged from this kind of range for that reason, they can’t critique their own form well enough to realize when it’s breaking down. To make sure I’m not making my own form unacceptably bad, I try not to hang out in this range for too long.There’s also the fact that it can be really exhausting long-term: firing basically all your muscle fibers at once, every set, gets hard on your CNS after a while.

1. Well, it’s pretty clear that you’re done with that weight, pushing the volume higher would get you into hypertrophy ranges. Those would only be useful if you’re actually wanting to bulk and eating for it, which you’re not. (I’m not sure how useful the prilepin-style hypertrophy table will be for you for that reason.) Since shoulder health is a big concern of yours, if it were me I’d be sticking to higher volume strength work, maybe 3x6-8, and adding weight that way. About 75% of your 1RM would be about ideal for that.

2. Well, I know from my own n=1 experience that the more volume I’m doing, the worse failure tends to be for me early on in the workout. (A lot of people experience this too, pullups are notorious for it, you crank out your max on the first set and your next set drops by a lot.) So yep, I’d cut yourself off before failure for your first couple sets, and just do as many sets as you need to in order to up your volume. Always aiming to improve your total workout volume will drive your one-set max.

3. Interesting question because it’s so individual… so even though your cluster reps weren’t technically all in one set, they still count toward your total. So you did 9 legit reps at that weight. If I were thinking about progression, my first move would be to pick a % to start from (and a rep range to go with it). I’d be nervous about my last lift of the day being a big near-1RM effort on a full-body lift, so I’d probably trend toward the 4-5 rep range.

Here’s how I might do it in your shoes:

For funsies, next workout, same weight, try to hit 10 reps in the same number of sets.

Next workout, deload by a few kg and go for 3x4. See how I like that rep range. When I settle into a rep range, start adding weight linearly.

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