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[archive / outdated] CHALLENGE AND CLASS CHANGES AND UPDATES

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Just so folks know it isn't Spezzy or Steve who come up with Guild mini challenges, it is your guild leaders ... we're the ones who brainstorm, ponder and put them into motion.

 

So if you're not enjoying the minis then talk with the leaders about that.

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Sounds like I'm in the minority on the mini challenges. I think the push of competition has provided me with a lot of extra morptivation. Not because I want to beat another team, but I want to support mine. The competition aspect is pretty light hearted and friendly. Sounds like a group of people need to come together to create an additional type of mini challenge. Should a new topic be created on the forums to discuss this?

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Sounds like I'm in the minority on the mini challenges. I think the push of competition has provided me with a lot of extra morptivation. Not because I want to beat another team, but I want to support mine. The competition aspect is pretty light hearted and friendly. Sounds like a group of people need to come together to create an additional type of mini challenge. Should a new topic be created on the forums to discuss this?

^^^ This. I've only done one mini challenge in a guild but I felt the mentality was to accomplish something together as a unit, a really fun way to get to know other people in the guild (especially for shy folk like myself). The inter-team competition element adds to the fun, but is ultimately meaningless. Winning teams don't earn extra stat points or anything.

I don't think anyone would resent another member if they weren't able to contribute s much as others.

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Just so folks know it isn't Spezzy or Steve who come up with Guild mini challenges, it is your guild leaders ... we're the ones who brainstorm, ponder and put them into motion.

So if you're not enjoying the minis then talk with the leaders about that.

Exactly.

And every guild handles mini challenges differently. I did a challenge with the druids, and there wasn't a mini-challenge. The last challenge I did with the assassins there was a cooking option for people who couldn't do the exercises. (I haven't joined any other guilds, so I can't speak to how their minis are run.)

Mini-challenges are also completely optional. Personally, being on a team and supporting them (and not letting them down) pushes me to not just disappear completely when my challenge is going badly, while testing my limits and exposing me to new exercises. If minis don't appeal to you, you might want to try joining (or starting) an accountabilibuddy group or a friendly PvP that takes out the things you don't like with the minis.

However, if it's broken or could be better, you should bring it up with the guild leaders. Constructive criticism is a great thing. And I do agree there are issues that can come up with team based competition.

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Those mini-challenges that I looked at all had options for people who were not so fit or strong as the other members. As mentioned before - you had to choose a level that suited your level of ability, and no one held anything against the others with regards to their level, etc. I was very impressed with all the thoughtfulness that had gone into designing and setting up the minis.

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Antsy Starpuck is antsy.

 

When are the new forums going up at least?  I know we gotta wait to the new year for the actual changes and neato things, but but but, I am afraid I will not have time to think up what's what once the crazy weekend hits!

 

When will then be now? :D

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Is there anything really important I should know in advance going into this challenge?

 

(I don't really know much about it except that it's a challenge....and from what I've gathered from browsing the challenge forum a bit)

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Question: Can we create a character and Epic Quest and level up in the new system without participating in 4 Week Challenges? I did quite a few 6 Week Challenges, and found that I just prefer to hang out in my Battle Log so everything is in one place. 4 Week Challenges will compound that issue by having even more stand alone threads...

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Having to compete against someone or be part of a group effort to beat another group is unfair because of failure mode.  I can't emotionally invest in the challenge if my success is dependent on someone else's performance, even if it were easy to make things otherwise balanced.  I don't compete unless the point of the game is the game itself instead of the final score.

 

Well, for instance, in the last Assassin challenge, the goal each week was for each individual to complete the level. The competition between teams was to see which team can have more of their members complete the challenge. So you can invest in acing your individual challenges regardless of your team. If you don't want to invest in the success of your randomly-assigned teammates, you can focus on your own success.

 

The teams seem to mostly be a way of breaking the large number of participants into smaller groups, so people have more opportunity to be invested in their teammates' success. It is hard to be invested in the individual success of 70 people, especially when most of them are strangers. 15 people is more manageable. You can get to know that many people and be invested in them. And at 15-20, the teams are still large enough that when a few people drop out, the team isn't totally sunk.

 

The Assassin challenges each week had a cooking option - cook something with the ingredient of the week, and post a picture of it. So if you stayed engaged and motivated, there is not a whole lot of excuse for "letting your team down", especially since it was like "cook something involving acorn squash, or if you absolutely cannot obtain acorn squash, use any other squash/zucchini/etc, or if you really cannot obtain a single squash of any kind, use tomatoes." 

 

So if you want your team to win, it isn't about the fitness level or skill of your teammates, which you have no control over. It is about the motivation and engagement of your teammates. And these challenges are built on the premise that we CAN, as individuals, dramatically increase the chances that our teammates complete a challenge. That is exactly why a lot of us are here. To give and get support, encouragement, and accountability.

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For a different approach, The Order Of The Stick had a mix of cumulative challenges (where all participants together need to accumulate a certain goal) and pass/fail individual challenges (where each person needed at least a certain amount of whatever to reach the next level). If someone failed, each person had one "healing potion" to use to pass the level or someone else could do a half-hour meditation or something to "heal" or "teleport" them, otherwise they were out for the remainder of the challenge. And there was the possibility of the whole team failing - they failed the September/October challenge, and came close a few times this past challenge. They also would give awards to people who did the most of this or that. I won one that was "Climb something tall and take a picture from the top. Best picture wins." 

 

 
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Honestly, I'm not in favor of changing the form from 6 weeks to 4 weeks. I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

I realize a lot of people often struggle with maintaining their challenges for such a long time, but either trying to push through (what I do) or making more attainable or realistic goals might help with that. I challenge myself, but I also don't try to set unrealistic expectations either.

 

A four week challenge, since it's so short, just seems like 'why bother?' since it won't cement better habits. I'll still participate, of course, but I prefer the 6 weeks.  ;)

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Honestly, I'm not in favor of changing the form from 6 weeks to 4 weeks. I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

I realize a lot of people often struggle with maintaining their challenges for such a long time, but either trying to push through (what I do) or making more attainable or realistic goals might help with that. I challenge myself, but I also don't try to set unrealistic expectations either.

 

A four week challenge, since it's so short, just seems like 'why bother?' since it won't cement better habits. I'll still participate, of course, but I prefer the 6 weeks.  ;)

 Totally agree about changing from 6 to 4 weeks, 4 seems so short and I just liked 6 better as it felt challenging.  The rest of the changes seem interesting and since we have not seen all of them yet I will remain hopeful and faithful.  A little bummed about the description change for adventurers but maybe it was time to change up guilds anyway so I will give a new guild a try as well. 

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Well, for instance, in the last Assassin challenge, the goal each week was for each individual to complete the level. The competition between teams was to see which team can have more of their members complete the challenge. So you can invest in acing your individual challenges regardless of your team. If you don't want to invest in the success of your randomly-assigned teammates, you can focus on your own success.

The teams seem to mostly be a way of breaking the large number of participants into smaller groups, so people have more opportunity to be invested in their teammates' success. It is hard to be invested in the individual success of 70 people, especially when most of them are strangers. 15 people is more manageable. You can get to know that many people and be invested in them. And at 15-20, the teams are still large enough that when a few people drop out, the team isn't totally sunk.

The Assassin challenges each week had a cooking option - cook something with the ingredient of the week, and post a picture of it. So if you stayed engaged and motivated, there is not a whole lot of excuse for "letting your team down", especially since it was like "cook something involving acorn squash, or if you absolutely cannot obtain acorn squash, use any other squash/zucchini/etc, or if you really cannot obtain a single squash of any kind, use tomatoes."

So if you want your team to win, it isn't about the fitness level or skill of your teammates, which you have no control over. It is about the motivation and engagement of your teammates. And these challenges are built on the premise that we CAN, as individuals, dramatically increase the chances that our teammates complete a challenge. That is exactly why a lot of us are here. To give and get support, encouragement, and accountability.

I suppose that's not too unreasonable, provided I had enough warning about what the ingredient of the week was. I remember one mini where I missed four days of it because I honestly did not have anything to make a jump rope out of.

 

Honestly, I'm not in favor of changing the form from 6 weeks to 4 weeks. I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

I realize a lot of people often struggle with maintaining their challenges for such a long time, but either trying to push through (what I do) or making more attainable or realistic goals might help with that. I challenge myself, but I also don't try to set unrealistic expectations either.

 

A four week challenge, since it's so short, just seems like 'why bother?' since it won't cement better habits. I'll still participate, of course, but I prefer the 6 weeks.  ;)

 

I heard that typical time for a small habit is 21 days, so the 6-week was doubling that.  Personally, I have planned my challenges along a 12-week format because I heard that it takes twice as long for certain types of people to change a habit.  Would you be adverse to doing double-challenges, where you continue your goal with mid-stream adjustments?

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Personally I like the change to 4 weeks and smaller breaks because:

  • 4 weeks is nice & neat to plan out on calendars - whether it is month to month or something you want to plan out throughout the year. 
  • Completing more goals in a short amount of time gives a sense of accomplishment - having one successful challenge after another without the downtime keeps your momentum up.
  • To elaborate on the point above, for myself at least, smaller 4 week goals seem less overwhelming to achieve. If people want to elongate their challenges, they could always continue the same goals in the following challenge. Have a two part sort of deal for 8 weeks. (I actually plan on doing that at some point.) That being said, I completely understand why some would want more of a challenge in the form of two more weeks - I just think this makes it more accessible in general, especially to newbies. Also, any time spent improving your health is time well spent - even if you think it is short!

That's just my take on it.

 

The rest of the changes seem very exciting - I look forward to January 1st! 

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I heard that typical time for a small habit is 21 days, so the 6-week was doubling that.  Personally, I have planned my challenges along a 12-week format because I heard that it takes twice as long for certain types of people to change a habit.  Would you be adverse to doing double-challenges, where you continue your goal with mid-stream adjustments?

 

I think 12 weeks seems unreasonably long. Although like the 6 or 4 weeks challenges, if it works for you, awesome! Maybe I will try it though. I think the sweet spot for most people would be 5-7 weeks in length.

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Antsy Starpuck is antsy.

 

When are the new forums going up at least?  I know we gotta wait to the new year for the actual changes and neato things, but but but, I am afraid I will not have time to think up what's what once the crazy weekend hits!

 

When will then be now? :D

 

tumblr_n6y2t30nsu1rawb5do1_400.jpg

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Honestly, I'm not in favor of changing the form from 6 weeks to 4 weeks. I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

I realize a lot of people often struggle with maintaining their challenges for such a long time, but either trying to push through (what I do) or making more attainable or realistic goals might help with that. I challenge myself, but I also don't try to set unrealistic expectations either.

 

A four week challenge, since it's so short, just seems like 'why bother?' since it won't cement better habits. I'll still participate, of course, but I prefer the 6 weeks.  ;)

 

Why not make your goal to complete it across two challenges?

 

We've noticed a LOT of dropout after week 3, and a lot of people coming back strong for week 6... just to have a week break.

 

The shorter shouldn't be "why bother" - it should be a "okay, I can do this and get it down 100%" :)

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Why not make your goal to complete it across two challenges?

 

We've noticed a LOT of dropout after week 3, and a lot of people coming back strong for week 6... just to have a week break.

 

The shorter shouldn't be "why bother" - it should be a "okay, I can do this and get it down 100%" :)

 

Because 8 weeks, like Gobnait's 12 weeks, sounds daunting. Although it is an option. ;)

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I second the request for dance and circus arts to be added to the Assassins description/list of activities, it would have greatly helped me figure out where I fit earlier on. :)

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Because 8 weeks, like Gobnait's 12 weeks, sounds daunting. Although it is an option. ;)

 

Well, to be fair... When I was actually managing to keep increasing momentum instead of just coming here to not slow down so much, I would usually "get it" by week 8 and either pick up a goal that got sloughed off earlier or start trying something that may or may not stick enough by week 12 to pursue further.  It's more of a matter of finding my own rhythm in that of the group.  Sometimes the main goal from the first six weeks is enough that I just need to pay attention to it a bit further to keep things going.

 

I imagine that you could justify doing a 6-week challenge with the old weekly break on 7 and report back on week 8 whether things did actually manage to stick.

 

Try doing a four-week and then see whether you need to keep tracking it further.

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I can't speak for the other guilds, but since there's been so much discussion of minis (mostly those run by my guild), I thought I'd jump in.

 

I write most of the Assassin minis.  I try to accomplish a few things:

  • Give an option to all fitness levels.  Sometimes that means a cooking option, sometimes that means scaled movements, sometimes, when there's a very specific plot point, it means "contact me for an alternative."
  • Avoid equipment.  Assassins are the bodyweight guild, so that's part of it, but also, it means more people can be included.  The only equipment that is really needed for some of our minis is something to do pull-ups or rows on, and even there, we're flexible (door pulls, etc).  Everything else can be done with just your body.  This means the largest possible number of people can participate.
  • Vary the challenge type.  We usually do challenges in teams because this has proven popular with an overwhelming majority over the last year.  I also feel it gives people a chance to get to know a few teammates as opposed to a massive guild of too many people.  But even with teams, we have different types of challenges: challenges where # of reps is rewarded, challenges where difficulty is rewarded, challenges where speed is rewarded, challenges where participation is rewarded.  Sometimes everyone competes for numbers, other times people are locked into individual goals and can't rescue teammates.  No one method makes EVERYONE happy.  Sometimes I appease the numbers beasts.  Sometimes I appease the difficulty-seekers.  Sometimes I appease the collaborators.  Some challenges are competitive, some collaborative, some a mix of both.  And this leads me to my final point....
  • Take and use feedback.  After every challenge, the Assassins release a survey.  I ask whether people participated in the minis, what they liked, what they didn't like, what they would change.  As expected, for every challenge type, some love it, some hate it, some fall somewhere between the two.  I look for trends, do a bit of statistical analysis (once a nerd, always a nerd....) and adjust for the next cycle.
  • In the end, please as many as possible while acknowledging that I can't please everyone no matter WHAT I do.

So basically..... I can't speak for other guilds, but inside our guild, there is ALWAYS room for new ideas.  I try very hard not to do the same mini challenge over and over and to keep things inclusive for all who wish to participate.  Not sure if there are lessons to be gleaned here by others (maybe?) or if someone wants to rip into me and tell me I've got it all wrong (also possible), but I felt I couldn't stay silent.  Also.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I second the request for dance and circus arts to be added to the Assassins description/list of activities, it would have greatly helped me figure out where I fit earlier on. :)

 

I third this.  There are a lot of dancers, especially, who join NF and have no idea where they belong.  I know I was among their numbers once upon a time.  I found "my people" completely on accident.  And yes, circus/acrobatics and gymnastics have some common threads, but they're fairly discrete disciplines, in the end......

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This is so exciting and I feel lucky that my first ever challenge gets to be with these fancy new things. Where will I go to get started, and when?

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I write most of the Assassin minis.

And you do a phenomenal job! :-) I almost stayed with the assassin's guild just because of your beautifully thought out, spectacularly organized, completely inclusive minis! (The Warriors called to me with their song of iron, though.)

Seriously, starsapart, you & Hazard are to be commended for the assassin minis. :-) They are works of art. And when I was a brand new rebel assassin, I always felt wanted and included. Even with an injury and no confidence. So - thanks! :-)

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