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spezzy

[archive / outdated] CHALLENGE AND CLASS CHANGES AND UPDATES

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And you do a phenomenal job! :-) I almost stayed with the assassin's guild just because of your beautifully thought out, spectacularly organized, completely inclusive minis! (The Warriors called to me with their song of iron, though.)

Seriously, starsapart, you & Hazard are to be commended for the assassin minis. :-) They are works of art. And when I was a brand new rebel assassin, I always felt wanted and included. Even with an injury and no confidence. So - thanks! :-)

 

Awwwwww this gives me the warm fuzzies, thank you. :)  Come and mini with us (just for fun) anytime, regardless of your guild.  We'll always welcome you!

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I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

Actually, some research on behavior change says anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months to settle in a new habit, depending upon how ingrained the old ways of behaving have become ... and how much support your environment gives to the new habit.  I can see taking something really big, breaking it into stages and tackling it over 3 challenges - the first phase might be to address who and what might hold you back when you're trying to make a big change??  

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Habit formation is one of my favorite topics.  It's interesting that the 21 days to create a new habit came from something that in no way was related to habit formation.  The following can be found in many articles on habit formation:  "a plastic surgeon, Maxwell Maltz, M.D published a book in 1960 called Psycho-Cybernetics in which he noted that amputees took, on average, 21 days to adjust to the loss of a limb and he argued that people take 21 days to adjust to any major life changes.1 He also wrote that he saw the same pattern in those whose faces he had operated on. He found that it took about 21 days for their self-esteem either to rise to meet their newly created beauty or stay at its old level.

 

 

Maltz observation only noted that people in his work "got used" to something in about 21days.  He did not do any study to document how long it takes to create a habit.  People just liked the idea of 3wks and morphed his statement in to what they wanted to hear.  The most convincing information I've seen is that it takes an undetermined length of time dependent on how difficult the change is.  A simple change like keeping a place in your house where you pile up clutter might become fairly engrained in a few weeks.  I more difficult task such as exercising might take many months.  I repeated daily w/o's early this year for 5 months straight and used a technique called "cue, routine, reward".  Even then, after 5 months of never failing to perform some type of exercise, other things in life conflicted (work and home repair) and I stopped till 3 days ago. So was it a habit?   

 

As for the actual topic at hand (length of challenges), either way seems fine although a 4wk goal seems like a pretty short time to accomplish much change.  However, I can just break down an 8 wk goal in to 2 parts like many have suggested.  

 

Many thanks to everyone working on this site for continually trying to improve things.

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Habit formation is one of my favorite topics. It's interesting that the 21 days to create a new habit came from something that in no way was related to habit formation. The following can be found in many articles on habit formation: "a plastic surgeon, Maxwell Maltz, M.D published a book in 1960 called Psycho-Cybernetics in which he noted that amputees took, on average, 21 days to adjust to the loss of a limb and he argued that people take 21 days to adjust to any major life changes.1 He also wrote that he saw the same pattern in those whose faces he had operated on. He found that it took about 21 days for their self-esteem either to rise to meet their newly created beauty or stay at its old level.

Maltz observation only noted that people in his work "got used" to something in about 21days. He did not do any study to document how long it takes to create a habit. People just liked the idea of 3wks and morphed his statement in to what they wanted to hear. The most convincing information I've seen is that it takes an undetermined length of time dependent on how difficult the change is. A simple change like keeping a place in your house where you pile up clutter might become fairly engrained in a few weeks. I more difficult task such as exercising might take many months. I repeated daily w/o's early this year for 5 months straight and used a technique called "cue, routine, reward". Even then, after 5 months of never failing to perform some type of exercise, other things in life conflicted (work and home repair) and I stopped till 3 days ago. So was it a habit?

As for the actual topic at hand (length of challenges), either way seems fine although a 4wk goal seems like a pretty short time to accomplish much change. However, I can just break down an 8 wk goal in to 2 parts like many have suggested.

Many thanks to everyone working on this site for continually trying to improve things.

Well spoken, and thank you for the mini lesson. Very informative.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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On my own, I've always tended to do 3-4 week cycles. For me, if the habit a good fit for me and my life, a month is more than sufficient to incorporate it into my routine. If it isn't "sticking" after three weeks, it is unlikely to ever really stick. So at that point, I need to stop and figure out what I can do differently, rather than just grinding away at the same plan that isn't working.

 

It is more of an experimental cycle, really. I set a plan, and after three or four weeks, I am pretty confident in assessing how well the plan is working. 

 

If I am doing the thing consistently, after 3-4 weeks, I generally want to pause and assess my progress. Am I actually seeing improvement? If it has been four weeks of consistent application, there ought to be some kind of noticeable progress. I also want to see if there is anything I think I should alter or add.  I generally do my "habit change" stuff in really small increments, so I probably already have a plan for what the next step is. Am I ready to move on? Or maybe I decide I need to reassess that next step, or stay with this step a little longer. If I've been really consistent in sticking with it, I'm probably going to follow it with a trial period where I loosen up the strict mandate to do the thing, to see if I've internalized the habit. Do I need to keep this as something I am actively working on, or is it now just something I do?

 

So for me, 6 weeks with a 1-2 week break is a REALLY long cycle. I don't want to bail on a plan without giving it a fair trial, but for my first 6-week challenge, those last two weeks I was just grinding through the workouts, counting the days until the challenge was over. I'd given it a fair trial, decided it was not for me, and I was ready to move on. 

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[troll]

 

I, for one, am furious that the warrior guild description doesn't even mention curlz or sleeveless shirts.

 

And this moving the generalist adventurers into the rangers is clearly just gerrymandering on the part of the rangers and their evil quest to dominate the forums.

 

[/troll]

 

Seriously though, I'm optimistic that the 4 week format will be a good change. On many challenges, if it's a habit in week four, it's a habit in week six. Meanwhile, if by week three it's clear a goal doesn't work, now I don't have to wait 3 weeks to do drastic changes. And we'll get to avoid the weeks 3-5 dip in enthusiasm.

 

[troll]

 

What about a troll guild?

 

[/troll]

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[troll]

 

I, for one, am furious that the warrior guild description doesn't even mention curlz or sleeveless shirts.

 

And this moving the generalist adventurers into the rangers is clearly just gerrymandering on the part of the rangers and their evil quest to dominate the forums.

 

[/troll]

Ag no man! Now you burst my bubble with regards to the Warriors. They need "help me look strong" (sleeveless) shirts? :pirate:  Last time I checked the Rangers didn't need shirts to help them look strong... just saying... :playful:

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I've been told that if you can do something consistently for 6 weeks straight, it ceases being a 'new' or 'hard' thing to do and has simply become a routine habit. It is then much easier to maintain doing the change.

 

Actually, some research on behavior change says anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months to settle in a new habit, depending upon how ingrained the old ways of behaving have become ... and how much support your environment gives to the new habit. 

 

I did some research a few months ago about this, and found this article, which is rather enlightening about the subject. Spoiler: there are so many variables it is impossible to guess (type, difficulty or complexity of the habit, level of change implied, environment support, reasons to accomplish it...). This study claims that it can take from 18 to 254 days to ingrain a new habit, and that the best estimate would be around 66 days.

 

https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/hbrc/2012/06/29/busting-the-21-days-habit-formation-myth/

 

I see @peelout had already told you about the 21 days myth.

Edited by zenLara
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Ag no man! Now you burst my bubble with regards to the Warriors. They need "help me look strong" (sleeveless) shirts? :pirate:  Last time I checked the Rangers didn't need shirts to help them look strong... just saying... :playful:

 

I am not a Warrior, but television has taught me that Warriors must eschew sleeves at all times, even when it is impractical and dangerous to do so. This is especially true when it comes to chainmail.

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Question: Can we create a character and Epic Quest and level up in the new system without participating in 4 Week Challenges? I did quite a few 6 Week Challenges, and found that I just prefer to hang out in my Battle Log so everything is in one place. 4 Week Challenges will compound that issue by having even more stand alone threads...

spezzy?

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I wish NF had a Bard guild.  Since we don't have one, the Assassins are certainly the best fit.

 

A Bard guild would be focused mostly on social skills (if it existed), yes?

 

While I think a Guild specific to that would be a good thing to have, I'm not sure how it would fit in with the rest of Nerd Fitness.

 

On a more humorous note, we also don't need people selling tomato-based fruit salad.

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A Bard guild would be focused mostly on social skills (if it existed), yes?

 

While I think a Guild specific to that would be a good thing to have, I'm not sure how it would fit in with the rest of Nerd Fitness.

 

On a more humorous note, we also don't need people selling tomato-based fruit salad.

 

I would like more "classes" even if they don't get their own guilds.  I've been focused on making the house more livable and not back-sliding on my chores for years, which would make my class be innkeeper.  Even if people with that same focus are scattered across the guilds, I can find them if they use the same tags as I do.

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I think the reason we don't have a clerics, bards, or paladin's guild

 

[troll]

 

I, for one, am furious that the warrior guild description doesn't even mention curlz or sleeveless shirts.

 

And this moving the generalist adventurers into the rangers is clearly just gerrymandering on the part of the rangers and their evil quest to dominate the forums.

 

[/troll]

 

Seriously though, I'm optimistic that the 4 week format will be a good change. On many challenges, if it's a habit in week four, it's a habit in week six. Meanwhile, if by week three it's clear a goal doesn't work, now I don't have to wait 3 weeks to do drastic changes. And we'll get to avoid the weeks 3-5 dip in enthusiasm.

 

[troll]

 

What about a troll guild?

 

[/troll]

Says the man in the process of moving from Warrior to Ranger ;)

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I would like more "classes" even if they don't get their own guilds.  I've been focused on making the house more livable and not back-sliding on my chores for years, which would make my class be innkeeper.  Even if people with that same focus are scattered across the guilds, I can find them if they use the same tags as I do.

 

Hum ..... a good use of tags!!!!  I'll make sure to include "bard" in my tag list next challenge.  Or you could also make an accountability group .....

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I would like more "classes" even if they don't get their own guilds.  I've been focused on making the house more livable and not back-sliding on my chores for years, which would make my class be innkeeper.  Even if people with that same focus are scattered across the guilds, I can find them if they use the same tags as I do.

Hum ..... a good use of tags!!!!  I'll make sure to include "bard" in my tag list next challenge.  Or you could also make an accountability group .....

 

I like the idea of an accountability group for this. I've been fighting the same situation for some time. We could use an "innkeeper" tag, too.

 

In case it helps anybody, my last fancy was to work on 15 minutes spans. 1 span a day, with an alarm set, and trying to do as much as I was able to in those 15 minutes. The first 2 weeks the house didn't seem to improve that much (and I was tempted to go and do a cleaning marathon), but after a month it was cleaner as ever and pretty ranged. 

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I am not a Warrior, but television has taught me that Warriors must eschew sleeves at all times, even when it is impractical and dangerous to do so. This is especially true when it comes to chainmail.

It's true.  All my clothes and armor have either short or no sleaves with the exception of suits and such, of course. 

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I always envisioned Bard more for people that do performance art activities (circus apparatus, hoop, mermaiding, stage fighting, dance).  Though I thought they'd call it Jester though :P  Assasins do make sense though, I mean look at Leiliana in DA. She's a Bard (subset of Rogue Class) and did assassinations :P

 

On the other hand, looking forward to the 4 week terms.  8 weeks (4 to build, 4 to cement) works muuuuch better than 12 hehe.  Are there any other formatting changes?  I haven't seen the sample goals put up yet so just being curious.

 

As for minis,  I don't participate in them due to time constraints (also if I focus on mini vs my goals, I tend to let my stuff fall to the wayside) but I always admire the creativity my guild puts into them :)

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[troll]

 

I, for one, am furious that the warrior guild description doesn't even mention curlz or sleeveless shirts.

 

 

Sleeveless shirts are a Warrior thing?  I almost religiously wear tank tops to show off my shoulder and arm muscles, but I'm a Ranger/Assassin.  :P

 

 

 

Seriously though, I'm optimistic that the 4 week format will be a good change. On many challenges, if it's a habit in week four, it's a habit in week six. Meanwhile, if by week three it's clear a goal doesn't work, now I don't have to wait 3 weeks to do drastic changes. And we'll get to avoid the weeks 3-5 dip in enthusiasm.

 

 

That's exactly why I'm excited about the change to a 4WC.  Usually, I discover by the challenge midpoint whether a goal just isn't working.  And then I have to decide whether to be kind of lame and change my goals or whether I should trudge through another 3 weeks with a goal that isn't working.  4 weeks seems like a perfect challenge length for people who are trying out a new program or seeing whether they can or want to turn a new thing into a habit.

 

I always envisioned Bard more for people that do performance art activities (circus apparatus, hoop, mermaiding, stage fighting, dance).  Though I thought they'd call it Jester though :tongue:  Assasins do make sense though, I mean look at Leiliana in DA. She's a Bard (subset of Rogue Class) and did assassinations :tongue:

 

Yep.  I was envisioning circus and performance arts.  It also would be a great place for people with writing or musical instrument goals, too.

 

 

 

As for minis,  I don't participate in them due to time constraints (also if I focus on mini vs my goals, I tend to let my stuff fall to the wayside) but I always admire the creativity my guild puts into them :)

 

 

I find the epic team vs. team minis overwhelming and distracting for exactly those reasons.  But I appreciate that there are so many different mini styles between all of the guilds, so those who are motivated by the epic minis can do them in some guilds, and those who need much more relaxed minis can find them elsewhere.  

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That's exactly why I'm excited about the change to a 4WC.  Usually, I discover by the challenge midpoint whether a goal just isn't working.  And then I have to decide whether to be kind of lame and change my goals or whether I should trudge through another 3 weeks with a goal that isn't working.  4 weeks seems like a perfect challenge length for people who are trying out a new program or seeing whether they can or want to turn a new thing into a habit.

 

This! Curl Brogo and Joshua T put it well too.

 

I'm still new, so I haven't done any challenges yet, but when I make changes on my own, it's clear about 3-4 weeks in if something isn't working and needs to be tweaked or scrapped. Also, two weeks off between (some) challenges? A lot can happen in two weeks, or even just one -- whereas the weekend break really helps with damage control. Two days is not a lot of time to get new goals together, but maybe that's not even much of an issue for most people. Overall, the 4-week way feels much more adaptable.

 

And anyone who didn't sign up during the first week won't be waiting 5-7 more weeks for the next challenge. Or were there a lot of people joining late before?

 

Really though, I'm bouncing in my seat to see the new character system. Heck, I just want the new challenge forums to be up so I can throw down my thread (and stalk everyone else's!!). I'm really excited for the new changes, even if I only lurked the old style, and even though I have a feeling I'm going to be classless for a while.

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[troll]

 

I, for one, am furious that the warrior guild description doesn't even mention curlz or sleeveless shirts.

 

And this moving the generalist adventurers into the rangers is clearly just gerrymandering on the part of the rangers and their evil quest to dominate the forums.

 

[/troll]

 

Seriously though, I'm optimistic that the 4 week format will be a good change. On many challenges, if it's a habit in week four, it's a habit in week six. Meanwhile, if by week three it's clear a goal doesn't work, now I don't have to wait 3 weeks to do drastic changes. And we'll get to avoid the weeks 3-5 dip in enthusiasm.

 

[troll]

 

What about a troll guild?

 

[/troll]

 

can we make a curl mini quest this challenge?

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Question: Can we create a character and Epic Quest and level up in the new system without participating in 4 Week Challenges? I did quite a few 6 Week Challenges, and found that I just prefer to hang out in my Battle Log so everything is in one place. 4 Week Challenges will compound that issue by having even more stand alone threads...

 

they're completely independent of eachother, though support eachother if you'd like to use them both.

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There's also nothing to say that you can't re-issue a challenge to yourself if you don't hit it the first time or want to work on something more or adjust it a bit, or don't think it's habitual yet.

 

I'm excited by the changes, and with a shorter time span it might keep me from wandering off... I seem to update every 1.5 weeks <_< >_> <_< >_>

 

I also have to re-evaluate my class, it seems like there's some discussion around whether Adventurer is Trying New Things or Adventuring Outside (the later isn't something I'll be doing until the Spring, thank you). I'll contemplate it over the weekend along with my NFYoga ;)

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I would like more "classes" even if they don't get their own guilds.  I've been focused on making the house more livable and not back-sliding on my chores for years, which would make my class be innkeeper.  Even if people with that same focus are scattered across the guilds, I can find them if they use the same tags as I do.

Innkeeper tag sounds good. :)

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