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Texican

What to do after Stronglifts 5x5?

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Hey all.

 

So I started Stronglifts back in September. Started with the bar and gradually progressed. Took my 5'2", 135lb self to 150lbs, and squatting 280lbs.

 

Now as I move forward toward 300lb I am feeling myself stall. I plan on milking 5x5 for what it is worth but now I am wondering if there is anything in particular I should look forward to? I suppose my goals, for the moment, are definition/aesthetics.

 

Any workout program people could recommend? Or anything to supplement 5x5? I have been throwing in barbell curls as well as pull-ups and chin-ups.

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If you're happy with the Stronglifts type package you could try an intermediate program Mehdi links to called "MadCow".

 

Or you could simply slow down your progression, if you can't manage the 5lb jumps per session, you could either dial it down to 2.5lb, 1.25lb per session or only increase the progression 5lbs per week instead of per session. 

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After strong lifts I tried wendler's 5/3/1 and found the progression a tad too slow for someone who is at best an advanced beginner. So I've switched to the Texas method (as written for power lifters, but not the peaking program). I'm only two weeks in but it definitely feels better than 5/3/1 so far (or maybe that's just switching back to full body workouts).

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You could do a 5x3 and keep the progression like in the 5x5.  I did that and was able to keep making gains and kill some plateaus. 

 

I went to a simplified 5/3/1 on my deadlifts (I pulled off T-Nation) and kicked my deads up like 40lbs.  I then tried this program w/ my other lifts and it did good on my squats, bench, and deads.  Did nothing for overhead press. 
 

I now use a Powerbuilding program (also off T-Nation) and I'm pretty happy with this program. 

 

If you want links to these programs, just let me know and I'll get them for you. 

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I started Madcow also on the SL site. I was stalling and my recovery wasn't happening with SL. Madcow has allowed me to move past my stalled Squat and my DL just hit 110kg tonight. i also liked Jason Blaha's Ice-Cream program, it was basically SL with accessories. It was a lot of fun.

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Personally I would recommend taking the nuclear option and not following an internet program at all. Find a good strength and conditioning coach and get them to do your programming rather than using one of the template programmes. You'll get far, far more out of a long term periodised approach put together by an expert. You've made excellent progress in 4-5 months and, just to check I didn't misread your first, you weigh 150lbs/68kg? 

 

None of the template programs are especially good and Madcow and Texas Method in particular still encourage what is a essentially a linear progression, albeit a weekly one rather than session to session as you'll be used to with Stronglifts. They'll keep you going for a bit but you'll eventually stall out on them too. Switching to 5/3/1 would be a mistake given that your significant training volume would fall off a cliff compared to what you are doing now so you'd likely see a drop in strength for a few months until you caught back up.

 

Given your numbers and bodyweight, you've clearly got some potential to be really damned strong so yeah, find someone who can help you to get there :)

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Decide what you want. If you want to look awesome then train and diet like a bodybuilder. If you want to be strong at the squat, bench, and deadlift then look for a powerlifting template. If strongman looks fun then look at strongman programs. If you just want to be stronger, better conditioned, and generally awesome then look into a more general intermediate program. Goals matter right now. Trying to get swole on Madcow is going to leave you wondering why it's not working just like trying to get stronger at a max pull on PPL.

 

Bodybuilding templates:

PHAT

PHUL

Push/Pull/Legs (PPL)

Arnold Split

 

Powerlifting:

5/3/1 for powerlifting

Cube Method

Candito's LP

Bastardized Block Periodization

 

Strongman:

Starting Strongman Beginner Program

Cube for Strongman

Refuge Method

5/3/1 with overhead and carry bias

 

General strength and conditioning templates:

5/3/1

Westside for Skinny Bastards

Juggernaut

 

Google the programs that appeal to your goals and dig into them. Understand that goals will change and that each approach to strength, size, and conditioning will have some amount of carry over to the others. Training like a bodybuilder will make you a better powerlifter and vice versa. Also, read Dave Tate's huge article about supplemental and assistance work on EliteFTS. It gives a lot of perspective on builders and how to program them to bring up the movements that you care about.

 

All of this is going to require you to get an understanding of the things that work. You'll inevitably do a whole shitload of new movements, groove new forms, and hit a lot more volume than you're used to on Stronglifts. A lot of it will have minor carry over, some won't do a thing for you, and you might trip over the magic bullet that drives a given movement better than anything.

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Decide what you want. If you want to look awesome then train and diet like a bodybuilder. If you want to be strong at the squat, bench, and deadlift then look for a powerlifting template. If strongman looks fun then look at strongman programs. If you just want to be stronger, better conditioned, and generally awesome then look into a more general intermediate program. Goals matter right now. Trying to get swole on Madcow is going to leave you wondering why it's not working just like trying to get stronger at a max pull on PPL.

 

Bodybuilding templates:

PHAT

PHUL

Push/Pull/Legs (PPL)

Arnold Split

 

Powerlifting:

5/3/1 for powerlifting

Cube Method

Candito's LP

Bastardized Block Periodization

 

Strongman:

Starting Strongman Beginner Program

Cube for Strongman

Refuge Method

5/3/1 with overhead and carry bias

 

General strength and conditioning templates:

5/3/1

Westside for Skinny Bastards

Juggernaut

 

Google the programs that appeal to your goals and dig into them. Understand that goals will change and that each approach to strength, size, and conditioning will have some amount of carry over to the others. Training like a bodybuilder will make you a better powerlifter and vice versa. Also, read Dave Tate's huge article about supplemental and assistance work on EliteFTS. It gives a lot of perspective on builders and how to program them to bring up the movements that you care about.

 

All of this is going to require you to get an understanding of the things that work. You'll inevitably do a whole shitload of new movements, groove new forms, and hit a lot more volume than you're used to on Stronglifts. A lot of it will have minor carry over, some won't do a thing for you, and you might trip over the magic bullet that drives a given movement better than anything.

 

You should add GZCL method to your PL list.

 

GZCL Jacked & Tanned can also be used for general strength.

 

JuggerCube is also great for PL if you like the high volumes of juggernaut but like the setup of Cube.

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Personally I would recommend taking the nuclear option and not following an internet program at all. Find a good strength and conditioning coach and get them to do your programming rather than using one of the template programmes. You'll get far, far more out of a long term periodised approach put together by an expert. You've made excellent progress in 4-5 months and, just to check I didn't misread your first, you weigh 150lbs/68kg? 

 

None of the template programs are especially good and Madcow and Texas Method in particular still encourage what is a essentially a linear progression, albeit a weekly one rather than session to session as you'll be used to with Stronglifts. They'll keep you going for a bit but you'll eventually stall out on them too. Switching to 5/3/1 would be a mistake given that your significant training volume would fall off a cliff compared to what you are doing now so you'd likely see a drop in strength for a few months until you caught back up.

 

Given your numbers and bodyweight, you've clearly got some potential to be really damned strong so yeah, find someone who can help you to get there :)

 

The time is coming when I am going to yoink this discussion over to my thread.  :)

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Hey all.

 

So I started Stronglifts back in September. Started with the bar and gradually progressed. Took my 5'2", 135lb self to 150lbs, and squatting 280lbs.

 

Now as I move forward toward 300lb I am feeling myself stall. I plan on milking 5x5 for what it is worth but now I am wondering if there is anything in particular I should look forward to? I suppose my goals, for the moment, are definition/aesthetics.

 

Any workout program people could recommend? Or anything to supplement 5x5? I have been throwing in barbell curls as well as pull-ups and chin-ups.

 

You did so much better than I!  On Stronglifts, I hit a wall at 5x5x225 pounds and then another one at 5x5x255 pounds.  Now I have moved on to random programming.

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The time is coming when I am going to yoink this discussion over to my thread. :)

I always find it odd that barely anyone on here recommends getting a professional coach and then remember it's because most people on here have never had one.

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I always find it odd that barely anyone on here recommends getting a professional coach and then remember it's because most people on here have never had one.

 

Cost, availability of good coaching, and just wanting to do it ourselves are probably the biggest reasons. I'd have to drive an hour away to train with a powerlifting crew and an hour and a half to the nearest gym with strongman implements, assuming they have a good coach on their crew. Personally I'm not serious enough about it to make the sacrifices in the rest of my life to make that possible. I'm sure there are quite a few in my situation.

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I always find it odd that barely anyone on here recommends getting a professional coach and then remember it's because most people on here have never had one.

I think there's a reason for that. When you get a professional coach, it involves a lot of things. You need to be committed enough to be worth the time coaching you, you have to be willing to shell out the money for one, and you have to work your schedules so that you consistently have time together. If someone can do all of these things, it's probably the best course to go.

 

I think around here on NF, many of us can't do all these things. I've looked into it for myself and with how hectic my life is, I wouldn't be able to schedule time to actually go see my coach once a week. I'm also not willing to shell out the monthly money for a personal coach. The only thing I have is the commitment. For me, it doesn't work. Then it's like you said, because I've never had one, I always forget to recommend people look into that route.

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Cost, availability of good coaching, and just wanting to do it ourselves are probably the biggest reasons. I'd have to drive an hour away to train with a powerlifting crew and an hour and a half to the nearest gym with strongman implements, assuming they have a good coach on their crew. Personally I'm not serious enough about it to make the sacrifices in the rest of my life to make that possible. I'm sure there are quite a few in my situation.

Just because it may not be a viable idea for you, doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea for someone else.

 

I think there's a reason for that. When you get a professional coach, it involves a lot of things. You need to be committed enough to be worth the time coaching you, you have to be willing to shell out the money for one, and you have to work your schedules so that you consistently have time together. If someone can do all of these things, it's probably the best course to go.

 

I think around here on NF, many of us can't do all these things. I've looked into it for myself and with how hectic my life is, I wouldn't be able to schedule time to actually go see my coach once a week. I'm also not willing to shell out the monthly money for a personal coach. The only thing I have is the commitment. For me, it doesn't work. Then it's like you said, because I've never had one, I always forget to recommend people look into that route.

 

I agree that it isn't for everyone, and you do have to be committed for it to be worthwhile, but it just surprises me that so few of the committed lifters even contemplate it.

 

Honestly, I don't actually see my coach every week. Ada has never actually met him (she does online coaching with him).  Most of the support I get (other than the Saturday training sessions when he is around), is with personalised programming, email support, video analysis and the use and abuse of pre-existing knowledge and qualifications. :)

 

Anyway, it wasn't saying that everyone should have a coach, just surprise that no one suggests it.

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I know you weren't saying everyone should, I'm just pointing out some of the reasons people on here don't, which leads to fewer people having experience with them and recommending them as you said.

 

For me the biggest thing was shedile. I got quoted at $100 per month for online coaching from Jim Steele, which would have required me video taping workouts and sending them in, which would have taken time I already didn't have. The other option was working out at a gym 15 minutes away and adding another 30 minutes of commuting to my day. More time I don't have again. Sucks having a 1 hour commute each way to work.

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Sucks having a 1 hour commute each way to work.

Tell me about it! :(

Part of the reason I train at the gym I do is because it's a 15 minute walk from work and training there means cutting my journey home from 1-1.5 hours to 40-45 minutes (because I'm missing the traffic). Getting in each morning is the longer trek (and can be up to 2 hours on a bad day).

P.S. Pity my poor husband who gets dragged out of bed every Saturday to drive me in to train. He got so fed up he found himself a Saturday job.

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If I'm going to recommend a coach, I'm going to want to give a specific name of someone I know does good work. It's no good me telling people to get a coach if they don't know what to look for. So unless you're from the east coast of Australia and are committed enough with enough time and money to need a coach, a recommendation isn't going to come to mind.

That said, I'd love a coach. I had a coach for two years from 2006 and it was absolutely fantastic. Now I have three kids, a personal business and a university degree to finish- hell I wouldn't even be able to lift if I didn't have the gym in my front yard :P 

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If I'm going to recommend a coach, I'm going to want to give a specific name of someone I know does good work. It's no good me telling people to get a coach if they don't know what to look for. So unless you're from the east coast of Australia and are committed enough with enough time and money to need a coach, a recommendation isn't going to come to mind.

That said, I'd love a coach. I had a coach for two years from 2006 and it was absolutely fantastic. Now I have three kids, a personal business and a university degree to finish- hell I wouldn't even be able to lift if I didn't have the gym in my front yard :tongue:

In all fairness, I could probably get a word of mouth recommendation for a large proportion of places in the English-speaking world.

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In all fairness, I could probably get a word of mouth recommendation for a large proportion of places in the English-speaking world.

 

When I figure out where I am moving to next, I might well take you up on that!  :D

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In all fairness, I could probably get a word of mouth recommendation for a large proportion of places in the English-speaking world.

Yes, but in all fairness, that doesn't make me more likely to recommend a coach  :pirate:

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