From GF to Fiancee - without pressure?

[Cutebug]

I need some advice, specifically from men, I guess... but everyone is welcome to comment. 

 

I would really like my relationship to move to the next level (get engaged, get married), but I don't want to be the one to propose. It's something I would consider, but I would prefer to be asked. 

 

So how do I "make it known" that I would like to be proposed to, sooner rather than later, but still keep it romantic? I don't want to make any demands or cry at him or give him an ultimatum. I would really, more than anything, like to be surprised and romanced by the whole thing.... but I have been kind of expecting it for a while now. 

 

Here are the facts:

• I'm 32
• He's 38
• We've been together for 2 years
• We've been living together for a year
• We're not super romantic types. We're pretty laid back. 
• We have talked about marriage and kids
• We both want kids (I specifically want 2. He seems cool with that)
• I have basically planned my future wedding on Pinterest already
• My "dream" wedding is maximum $4000. 
• I also have a Pinterest board full of rings... most are under $200. 
• He was really slow (imo) telling me he loved me. We'd been dating for 6 months. He mentioned the possibility of us moving in together BEFORE telling me he loved me (what??!) 
• I have come to the point that the waiting is getting difficult and has caused tears & frustration
• I have decided that if the proposal doesn't happen on V-Day, I have to say something. 
• We've talked about our own personal versions of our life timelines before. At the time I think his priority was buying property, then the other stuff. Mine was marriage, baby, then property. I explained that for me, babies were a priority because it's easier to get knocked up when you're under 35. 
• I live in Vancouver, which is the most expensive place in the country to live and the third most expensive in the world, I believe. So we CANNOT afford to buy property right now. Not even close. Mimimum for a mortgage on a decent place in one of the suburbs is about $300,000. 
• Engagement ring and wedding, according to MY standards, is cheap and financially doable any time... We can afford babies too, with our current rent. 

 

So. Any advice? How should I bring it up? How should I approach this without taking all the romance out of it or making him feel pressured or guilty? Please help! 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

I need some advice, specifically from men, I guess... but everyone is welcome to comment. 

 

I would really like my relationship to move to the next level (get engaged, get married), but I don't want to be the one to propose. It's something I would consider, but I would prefer to be asked. 

 

So how do I "make it known" that I would like to be proposed to, sooner rather than later, but still keep it romantic? I don't want to make any demands or cry at him or give him an ultimatum. I would really, more than anything, like to be surprised and romanced by the whole thing.... but I have been kind of expecting it for a while now. 

 

Here are the facts:

• I'm 32
• He's 38
• We've been together for 2 years
• We've been living together for a year
• We're not super romantic types. We're pretty laid back. 
• We have talked about marriage and kids
• We both want kids (I specifically want 2. He seems cool with that)
• I have basically planned my future wedding on Pinterest already
• My "dream" wedding is maximum $4000. 
• I also have a Pinterest board full of rings... most are under $200. 
• He was really slow (imo) telling me he loved me. We'd been dating for 6 months. He mentioned the possibility of us moving in together BEFORE telling me he loved me (what??!) 
• I have come to the point that the waiting is getting difficult and has caused tears & frustration
• I have decided that if the proposal doesn't happen on V-Day, I have to say something. 
• We've talked about our own personal versions of our life timelines before. At the time I think his priority was buying property, then the other stuff. Mine was marriage, baby, then property. I explained that for me, babies were a priority because it's easier to get knocked up when you're under 35. 
• I live in Vancouver, which is the most expensive place in the country to live and the third most expensive in the world, I believe. So we CANNOT afford to buy property right now. Not even close. Mimimum for a mortgage on a decent place in one of the suburbs is about $300,000. 
• Engagement ring and wedding, according to MY standards, is cheap and financially doable any time... We can afford babies too, with our current rent. 

 

So. Any advice? How should I bring it up? How should I approach this without taking all the romance out of it or making him feel pressured or guilty? Please help! 

Just say you want to talk about your relationship, and that you are ready for the next step in that relationship, which is marriage. Emphasize you want to be Mrs. what's-his-name. Acknowledge that you aren't normally romantic, but the idea of a romantic proposal is important to you. Make the discussion about you, what you want, where you are in life. Don't mention the babies thing, don't mention the property thing. If he brings that up, it's fine, but don't try to talk him out of what he wants, explain what you want. The more you can mention how amazing he is the better. Whatever you do, don't accuse him of anything, don't assume anything about why he is doing what he is doing.

[Shello]

As usual, Tank gives great advice. 

[Burnet Bramblerose]

Ask him!

Don't wait for him to do the classic pop-the-question. If marriage is something you want, tell him you want it. And state your position logically -- you have some valid points here, like if you want to have babies you can't wait forever like a guy can, so if he wants babies, and he wants them with YOU, you guys need to get moving.

I think it's entirely appropriate to want marriage as a prerequisite for banies, if just for the financial security - tax benefits from being married, and also some cushioning if the marriage doesn't work out.

Tell him in clear words that you don't want him to feel pressured, and there's a good reason - you don't want to hear a yes for its own sake. You want the yes to mean that his goals are the same as yours. So if he doesn't want marriage and babies, or doesn't want them yet, that means he won't get to have them with you because you need them sooner.

... I'm really pragmatic about this crap, not much of a romantic. If there are logistical reasons for getting married or not getting married they need to be laid out on the table by both of you. And if either of you have reasons that clash with the other one's reasons, love will not conquer them.

Sometimes guys think they want kids but don't think about the practicalities of it the way women do. If that's how he thinks, or if he's still stuck on wanting them "someday", he is likely not ready to have kids and be responsible for them now, or be an equal partner in parenting. If that's the case, it's sad, but you want a guy who is as committed to being parent as you are. Don't settle for less.

[Scream]

I can share a few thought I have from my own perspective (married with a newborn).

 

1) Being a husband is a scary idea. First, society says you should be the breadwinner, and second, society does nothing but bash on husbands in pop culture and the media. It can really appear to be a lose-lose proposition.

2) Being a father is the same as above, but much, much scarier.

3) The proposal is also rooted in stupidity. Everything, from the ring to 'making it memorable' are just unnecessary hurdles that have nothing to do with the actual love or purpose of marriage.

4) Weddings are all of the above, but stupider and scarier.

 

I'm not saying proposals, marriage, or babies are just stupid and scary. I'm saying that these are likely the issues he needs to feel comfortable with before proceeding. If a 'freaky friday' magical event occurred and I was in your shoes, here's what I'd do.

 

1. Tell him about this hilarious new show called 'Adam Ruins Everything' and watch this video on youtube (you can start with a more innocuous one, then move on to this one). There's actually a TV series with more detail, so if you can find the full episode even better. Use this to jumpstart a discussion "I agree, rings are really stupid, I'd much prefer a simple ring like X or X. What do you think?"

2. Let him know that marriage doesn't equal babies. Trying to lump everything in at once is like Comcast insisting you buy TV, Phone Line, and Internet when all you're ready for is internet. Don't be Comcast. Nobody likes Comcast.

3. Make sure he has easy access to your ring size. For some reason this was a HUGE deal in my mind when I was getting ready to propose, and it's basically impossible to get right without help. I ended up settling on a ring that I didn't really like, but that I could return and resize for free. I personally HATED the concept of a woman getting to pick out her own ring. It was akin to saying 'yes, I want to marry you, but only if I get everything exactly the way I want'. A woman insisting on getting her own ring is symbolically saying she only accepts you as a husband as long as she gets to make all the decisions. On the other hand, my best friend who proposed a year earlier was TERRIFIED that his now-wife would be insulted that he didn't pick out exactly the right ring to propose with. Thank you, romance movies, for setting unrealistic standards for proposals. He proposed on a hike, and I proposed in my living room during a simple date. I still get flak for not making a huge production out of it.

 

Hopefully this gives you a little insight into what may be going on in his head, Best of luck!

[Cutebug]

Literally all I want is for him to say "Will you marry me?" 

 

If a ring comes with that, great. 

 

If dinner or something comes with that, great. 

 

If he asks me right after washing the dishes, Woot Woot! 

 

But all I really need is the question. 

 

I've let him know that I have Pinterest Boards for wedding planning and rings I like. I told him my ring size. He has my bestie's phone number to ask these kind of questions. Every couple of months he'll make comments that make me think the question is coming. It's just so weird, with all the hinting. 

 

In case anyone is curious, here are my Pinterest Boards:

Rings

Camp Wedding!

 

I also just sometimes leave these boards open on my screen where he can see them if he glances at my computer. lol 

Too subtle still????

[Cutebug]

I should also mention these things:

 

• We met on OKCupid. 
• My online profile said "looking for marriage" and "wants children". 
• In my "You Should Message Me If..." section, I wrote, "the idea of marriage and babies doesn't scare you." 
• He's the type of online dater that actually reads profiles
• When he asked me to be his gf (we dated for a month before making it "official") he told me that one of the women he dated before me was 39 and one of the reasons it wouldn't work out was because he wanted children and wouldn't be able to have them with her. 
• His parents are divorced and his Dad is on his third marriage. 
• His two full sisters who are between his age and mine are unmarried, but in long-term relationships and living with their boyfriends.

[Scream]

I also just sometimes leave these boards open on my screen where he can see them if he glances at my computer. lol 

Too subtle still????

 

Actually, considering that women seem to start planning their weddings at the age of 5, this may not be as big a hint as you think.

[Cutebug]

Actually, considering that women seem to start planning their weddings at the age of 5, this may not be as big a hint as you think.

I didn't start until I was 13, TYVM 

 

hahaha

[Burnet Bramblerose]

Honestly, yeah, still too subtle.

 

If he's the same kind of romantic that you are he'll figure out that you want a romantic proposal, and do it.

 

If he's not the same kind of romantic but understands and acknowledges that it's important to you, and loves you that much, he'll figure it out and do it.

 

The problem with the little nudges is that it IS pressure, in a passive-aggressive sort of way. If he gets lots of little nudges and does nothing with it, it means he isn't ready to do it or doesn't want to. So you need to decide whether you want to ask him, or continue to wait for something that may never happen.

 

It's not fair to either of you to live with the uncertainty that your needs -- both the long-term ones (like having kids or not) and the short-term emotional ones (like little romantic touches that make you feel special) -- may not be compatible with each other's. It's also not fair to either of you to expect the other one to bend, if your needs are really that incompatible. That's why talking clearly is better than nudging and hoping.

 

I was in the opposite boat, I'm a woman and I never wanted kids, and the first guy I dated had the 2.3-kids-and-a-dog-in-the-suburbs fantasy. I told him I didn't want kids, and he seemed to understand, but then he would air out these fantasies about me being his wife and the mother of his children and all this stuff. It hurt worse when I eventually left because I knew this would always be a point of contention between us and he wasn't acknowledging that there was even a problem.

 

And no, he wasn't happy when I left. But we wouldn't have been happy together because one of us would have ended up having to give up on goals and dreams to fulfill the other one's goals and dreams. It would never have been anything but bitter and one-sided.

[Cutebug]

Honestly, yeah, still too subtle.

 

If he's the same kind of romantic that you are he'll figure out that you want a romantic proposal, and do it.

 

If he's not the same kind of romantic but understands and acknowledges that it's important to you, and loves you that much, he'll figure it out and do it.

 

The problem with the little nudges is that it IS pressure, in a passive-aggressive sort of way. If he gets lots of little nudges and does nothing with it, it means he isn't ready to do it or doesn't want to. So you need to decide whether you want to ask him, or continue to wait for something that may never happen.

 

It's not fair to either of you to live with the uncertainty that your needs -- both the long-term ones (like having kids or not) and the short-term emotional ones (like little romantic touches that make you feel special) -- may not be compatible with each other's. It's also not fair to either of you to expect the other one to bend, if your needs are really that incompatible. That's why talking clearly is better than nudging and hoping.

 

I was in the opposite boat, I'm a woman and I never wanted kids, and the first guy I dated had the 2.3-kids-and-a-dog-in-the-suburbs fantasy. I told him I didn't want kids, and he seemed to understand, but then he would air out these fantasies about me being his wife and the mother of his children and all this stuff. It hurt worse when I eventually left because I knew this would always be a point of contention between us and he wasn't acknowledging that there was even a problem.

 

And no, he wasn't happy when I left. But we wouldn't have been happy together because one of us would have ended up having to give up on goals and dreams to fulfill the other one's goals and dreams. It would never have been anything but bitter and one-sided.

 

Ugh I know the pain of the unaligned dreams and goals. My high school sweetheart and I were together for 10 years and we started out with the same ideas of what we wanted in life and then slowly drifted farther and farther apart. 

 

bf knows that one of the major reasons I left my ex a few years ago was that he didn't want kids, and that the reason my last "relationship" didn't last is because he didn't want marriage or babies (he had a 6yr old already). I made it clear in the beginning that I didn't want anyone to waste my time. I was VERY blunt and very clear with every person who messaged me online. I scared lots of people away, which I think is a very good thing. 

 

I think it's not that he doesn't want the same things as me, because he has said he does... it's just that he's very patient... and kind of glacial. 

 

I mean, he had this romantic idea of telling me he loved me under the fireworks on the 4th of July, but of course I didn't know that and I brought a friend along. So his romantic idea got messed up and he waited a WHOLE MONTH to find the perfect time to say it. In the meantime, I was having doubts about his feelings for me and crying about it and I was SO worried he didn't love me, because we'd been together 6 months, and that was the longest I've ever been with someone without hearing those words. 

 

I believe that telling someone you love them is romantic enough all on its own. You don't need a romantic setting! 

 

So I'm wondering if he's ready, but just doesn't have all his ducks in a row and he's waiting for something entirely unimportant so that he feels like the time is right. <sigh>

 

I've seen a few stories online about these "incredibly romantic" proposals that require several months of sneaking and planning and preparation. Those stories make me SO MAD. All I can think is that these people must be young. Like, really young. Early 20s. If my boyfriend knew he wanted to marry me, but waited months to pop the question just so he could do this elaborate proposal, I would be so mad. It would ruin the whole damn thing for me. 

[Cutebug]

Maybe I should loop the song "Marry You" for an entire day? 

[fitnessgurl]

Pressuring him will make him NOT want to marry you.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Literally all I want is for him to say "Will you marry me?" 

 

If a ring comes with that, great. 

 

If dinner or something comes with that, great. 

 

If he asks me right after washing the dishes, Woot Woot! 

 

But all I really need is the question. 

 

I've let him know that I have Pinterest Boards for wedding planning and rings I like. I told him my ring size. He has my bestie's phone number to ask these kind of questions. Every couple of months he'll make comments that make me think the question is coming. It's just so weird, with all the hinting. 

 

In case anyone is curious, here are my Pinterest Boards:

Rings

Camp Wedding!

 

I also just sometimes leave these boards open on my screen where he can see them if he glances at my computer. lol 

Too subtle still????

Yes. If you want X, say, "I want X." Men People suck at mindreading.

 

Maybe I should loop the song "Marry You" for an entire day? 

[Cutebug]

Yes. If you want X, say, "I want X." Men People suck at mindreading.

 

 

I know this is insane.... but I can't ask him to ask me. If I do that, I might as well just ask him, which I really don't want to do. I want him to want to ask me. 

 

I'm usually SUPER blunt. Like, most-people-can't-handle-me-blunt. 

 

But with these certain things, I can't be that blunt, because it will mean less to me. I would ALWAYS wonder if he asked because I told him to. 

I need it to be organic. 

 

I really really rarely ask for any romancing. I'm going to make dinner for V-Day, and we're going to see Deadpool. He suggested we do the movie on Saturday because it will be less busy. I'm ok with that. I don't ask for flowers or jewelry. He got my a printer for Christmas and that's awesome cuz that's what I wanted. but this.... this one thing... I need it. 

 

It's so weird, but it means so much to me. And I can't explain that to him, because that's just the same as asking him to ask me. I feel stuck :/ 

 

My brain/heart is confusing and stupid. 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

I hear you feeling like you can't ask him to ask you. If that's the case, cut out the hints entirely. They are only going to make you miserable, in fact they make it worse because your brain keeps asking why he doesn't get the hint.

[calanthrophy]

I understand that the clock is ticking and all, but you said you've been together for 2 years, living together for 1...

For me that already seems like moving fast, living together that quickly. Marriage after 2 years seems rapid. Maybe he feels the same way.

 

Or maybe this is why I'm not married.

[Scream]

" I want you to WANT to do the dishes!"

"Why would I WANT to do dishes?"

[Cutebug]

I understand that the clock is ticking and all, but you said you've been together for 2 years, living together for 1...

For me that already seems like moving fast, living together that quickly. Marriage after 2 years seems rapid. Maybe he feels the same way.

 

Or maybe this is why I'm not married.

 

Some people get engaged after knowing each other for 3 months. Some people after 6. Some after 2 years. I was with my ex for 10 years and we were never engaged. Everyone has their own pace. I think most of the 3 month people are crazy.... but hey, it just might work out. There's always exceptions. I think my parents were together 2 years before they got married. They were 25. 

 

Our pace so far has been mostly up to him. I have always been a "fall fast and hard" kind of person, and I tend to over-commit (signed a two-year lease with my last live-in partner, signed a 3 year cell phone contract, broke up less than 1 year later). 

 

I've let him set the pace so far, and we both decided to take it slow in the beginning, because we had both rushed into our last relationships. The fact that we "dated" for a month before becoming a couple is unprecedented for me. I've NEVER just dated before. I've never dated more than one person at a time. But I've also had a lot of long-term relationships fizzle out or implode on me, so I chose to be cautious. I think before him, the longest I'd ever been in a relationship with someone without them telling me they loved me was 3 months... usually less. It was shocking for me that it took him 6 months to say those words. 

 

But he was the one that suggested we move in together, way earlier than I expected. 

 

He was the first one to bring up buying a place together. 

 

He was the first to bring up the topics of marriage and babies. 

 

So we're definitely going at his pace. I haven't pressured him at all. Even when I was stressed and worrying he didn't love me, I said nothing. 

 

My Relationship Philosophy is that you should never move in with someone until you've been on a road trip with them, the longer, the better. And you shouldn't marry someone until you've lived together for at least 3 months. 

 

I told him that philosophy, and after we'd been living together for 3 months, he said to me "So, we've been living together for 3 months now...." I just agreed and didn't say much else, because I didn't want to spook him, but maybe I should have said something more. 

 

He's also gotten me some pink jewelry for presents (necklace, earrings, bracelet) and he said something about getting me the whole set, and there was only one thing left to make it a set.... <hint hint> But again, that was MONTHS ago. The "set" remains incomplete... These hints confused the CRAP out of me. Srsly. So confusing. 

[Cataleya]

You two should definitely have a sit down and talk about your plans for the future. You don't have to ask him to ask you to marry him, but let him know that when he's ready to ask, you're ready to say yes, and that you dont want to wait much longer. And be sure that this is the guy you really want to spend the rest of your life with before you have that conversation. It's really easy to get caught up in the engagement/wedding/babies part of it and not think about everything else that honestly probably matters more.

Then again I've been in a relationship for six years and he's only been living with me for one and we aren't really looking at getting engaged right now, so maybe I'm not the best person to give advice.

Edit: It also sounds like maybe he's been giving you hints that you haven't been doing anything with. Have the talk.

[Cutebug]

Had a chat over Hangouts today, because I am terrible at starting conversations in person (Introvert!!!)

 

It's WAY too long to copy out or summarize, but here are some highlights:

 

ME: [blah blah Blah blah....] I don't know if you're holding back, or just content. 

HIM: i don't feel like i am holding back, i view us as being together in the long term even if nothing 'official' has happened

we have an idea of the future plan and that's good

ME: What kind of timeline do you see for this future plan?

HIM: maybe get married next year, and then try to figure out how to have a kid and buy a place in the near future

[blah blah Caution blah blah smell the roses blah blah] 

ME: I get caution, especially from you cuz most of your family is divorced. I'm surprised you even believe in marriage

HIM: i wouldn't say i believe in it the way everyone else does... i don't think its necessarily a requirement for a committed long term relationship. i view it as more of a celebration than 'ok, now we are committed' thing. i am just as committed to you now as i will be when we are married, that wont change.

ME: [blah blah important to me blah blah]

HIM: i know its important to you and therefore its important to me 

[blah blah]

HIM: i did forget your ring size... it was 8 maybe?

[blah blah re: rings blah blah]

 

 

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement, everyone! Talking about shit really does help clear the air. 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Communication wins again. Glad you guys could talk it out.