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The Shogun

The Black Ribbon Thread (The Sleeping Quarters)

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On 12/15/2016 at 9:33 PM, sarakingdom said:

Who is havink trouble vith their Black Ribbon pledges?  Who has not written vun down?  I vish to know, so that ve can all leave behind ze old vays vhich hold us back, and vhich are very old-fashioned and not at all scientific or modern.

That'd be me.  And I'm feeling it.  Need to get back to the 11 pm bedtime.  

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On 12/16/2016 at 0:33 AM, sarakingdom said:

Who is havink trouble vith their Black Ribbon pledges?  Who has not written vun down?  I vish to know, so that ve can all leave behind ze old vays vhich hold us back, and vhich are very old-fashioned and not at all scientific or modern.

 

UGGGGH I haven't even checked in here cause, well - if you don't have anything nice to say... I'm not sure if I made pledges? (TBH I'm not 100% how the thread is supossed to go... my apologies!) but I can say that my night habits have gotten atrocious. I've been staying up to the wee hours, busy busy with the making things and such. It all feels very holiday cheer, and while I am sleeping in enough, none of it feels super restful. One positive, I've been getting in hot showers at the end of the day and it's been lovely, so that's something. So I'm not sure, holiday stress? (Or in my case excite? I'm not stressed for some reason lol)

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better Sara!

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My sleep has been much better, but I have not been getting to bed early enough. I plan to go to bed early, then things happen. Apparently I am easily distracted in the evenings.

 

What I need to do is lay out clothes for the morning and pack lunch before I start my evening projects. Remembering to stretch before bed would help too.

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Veek Zero of zer First Challenge of Tventy-Seventeen

 

Velcome back to all ze children of ze night.  I vish you all to know that the Ankh-Morpork League of Temperance is here to help vith all ze little problems of adopting zer wholesome und human lifestyle, vith ze good sleep habits vithout ze coffins or ze nocturnal v-v-vay-v-vakefulness.  Ve are not stuck in zer past, after all.  Ve live in zer modern vorld, und ve are ze modern people.  The League here to help you vith ze v-vord.

 

Ve vill start er meeting vith ze varm mugs of cocoa, which are very wholesome indeed.  Please vear your black ribbon vhen attending zer meeting.

 

For this challenge, ve vill go around in a circle und introduce ourselves, vith a small description of our sleep habits und ze solutions ve are trying to solve them.  Ve vill do this vunce a veek.  (Veek zero is, of course, optional, und for those who vish to try things before their challenge starts.)

 

 

I vill go first.  Hello, my name is Sara Corpuscula Ottolina Sanguina Belladonna Maximiliana Tricholoma etc. von Kingdom, Countess of Bad Schüschein, und I am a vakeaholic.  Vhen I am not in bed und vinding down by midnight, I have ze difficulties being smart about zer bedtime, und stay up far too late.  No vakefulness after midnight is my pledge, not vun drop.  My current attempt at a solution is to set up automatic timer to close all ze veb browsers at midnight.

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Back after year end.  In good news, I slept a lot in the year between Christmas and New Year's.  I have the next week off as well, and will be going for 8-10 hours per night.

 

Historically, I get home from work late, fuss with things late, get to bed late, get to work late, and build a bad sleep cycle out of it.

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On 1/1/2017 at 0:24 PM, Teirin said:

Historically, I get home from work late, fuss with things late, get to bed late, get to work late, and build a bad sleep cycle out of it.

 

Oh, my vord, no, vun must not live like that.  Ve are undead, yes, to be sure, but ve are not late.  Vhat do you need to fix it, ze bedtime?  Ze defenses against zer fiddling vith things?

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Good evenink and happy challenge!

 

I need to re-dedicate to fighting the v-word, oh my.  My sleep times have been creeping later and later again.  We hav a lot of projects happening at work over the next 3-4 months, and good rest needs to happen or I vill be a grumpy bastard (not to mention less effective).  Based on the video Sarakingdom posted for us, my poor sleep is also affecting health and recovery, too.

 

So - bed-time needs to scale back to 11 at the latest, and mornings I need to get out of bed with minimal snooze.  On a positive note, I've installed f.lux on my tablet and will add it to my laptop, too. 

 

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On 1/6/2017 at 10:10 PM, sarakingdom said:

 

Oh, my vord, no, vun must not live like that.  Ve are undead, yes, to be sure, but ve are not late.  Vhat do you need to fix it, ze bedtime?  Ze defenses against zer fiddling vith things?

 

THE PLAN:  Tighten up my work day and enforce a lack of overtime unless it's really needed.  If I leave work on time, I should have the time to veg some at home, workout, and do things that need to be done, and get to bed on time.  I hope.  Going to try it for a month.  This involves setting my alarms and not changing them.  It's a bit brute force on my schedule but it should work.

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Quick check-in - Bed time has been a little better.  Getting there before midnight now, and switching to paper books (imagine that) for a bit since my phone doesn't have a f.lux ap or similar. 

 

Anyone know if a kindle paperwhite has the same blue light issues? 

 

I'm basically waking up at 6 though, which is both good and bad.  Not enough hours (I don't feel rested, really) but apparently I could forgo an alarm since dawn light seems to wake me up these days.  Kind of a weird blend. 

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19 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

switching to paper books (imagine that) for a bit since my phone doesn't have a f.lux ap or similar. 

 

Paper books are amazeballs, and way better than something backlit, with or without flux.  But if you want something slim and flux-like, try redshift in the F-Droid open source repository.  (Um, assuming you have Android.)  But mostly stick with paper books.  They're better.

 

20 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

Anyone know if a kindle paperwhite has the same blue light issues? 

 

If it's e-ink, it will not.  E-ink functions exactly like a printed page.  (Unless it's backlit, in which case the color of the backlight might make a difference.)

 

Oh, er, sorry, I mean, it vill not!  Ve must not forget our heritage entirely, you know.

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Just now, sarakingdom said:

Paper books are amazeballs, and way better than something backlit, with or without flux.  But if you want something slim and flux-like, try redshift in the F-Droid open source repository.  (Um, assuming you have Android.)  But mostly stick with paper books.  They're better.

All my Pratchett books are on paper.  :)  I do not have an Android.  Instead, I'm that guy.  The not-actually-a-luddite but has a windows phone because someone has to (I actually like it).

It does exactly what I want, but the ap space kind of blows (it's been getting better).  I'm really not a heavy user, so aside from occasional things like f.lux, I've not had any problems.

 

 

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1 minute ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

All my Pratchett books are on paper.  :)

 

Well, in that case, paper books are definitely better. :)

 

2 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

The not-actually-a-luddite but has a windows phone because someone has to

 

I forgot they even did phones. :)

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10 hours ago, Treva said:

I am on the strugglebus with getting to sleep, staying asleep, and getting adequate sleep.  Do you do that thing here?

Heh, let me just say this: I'm sitting here, reading topic about proper sleeping in the middle of the night, and it's waayyyy past acceptable bedtime, and I just know my dog will wake me up in the morning and I will be full of regret and then I will do it again. Ironic, right?

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14 hours ago, Treva said:

I am on the strugglebus with getting to sleep, staying asleep, and getting adequate sleep.  Do you do that thing here?

 

We definitely do that thing here.  With a vampire accent.

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On 1/13/2017 at 8:29 PM, sarakingdom said:

We definitely do that thing here.  With a vampire accent.

And cocoa.  Don't forget zer cocoa.

 

On 1/13/2017 at 5:54 AM, Treva said:

I am on the strugglebus with getting to sleep, staying asleep, and getting adequate sleep.  Do you do that thing here?

Why yes we struggle with it.  :)  We also work on examining our habits and set-ups, setting little sleep goals, and finding ways to swear off the v-word (vakefulness).  I'll let @sarakingdom explain the League (her vampire accent is much better than mine).

 

So - what specifically are you having trouble with?  Are you staying up late, or just not able to sleep even with a good bed time? 

 

For me - I have some recurring bad habits with screen time or staying up late reading.  It's kind of a two-step dance for me, depending on some of the other stresses in life.  I've also recently installed light blocking curtains to a street facing window, and man, what a difference. 

 

On 1/13/2017 at 4:45 PM, Thrima said:

Heh, let me just say this: I'm sitting here, reading topic about proper sleeping in the middle of the night, and it's waayyyy past acceptable bedtime, and I just know my dog will wake me up in the morning and I will be full of regret and then I will do it again. Ironic, right?

I resemble that irony, although in my case I have a cat that wants attention (or to look out a window) at midnight, and then again at 5.  He's improved from when I first got him, but still has his moments.

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On 1/13/2017 at 11:29 PM, sarakingdom said:

 

We definitely do that thing here.  With a vampire accent.

My vampire accent is terrible.  I will have to work on that.

 

On 1/16/2017 at 1:09 AM, ChrisWithaStick said:

Why yes we struggle with it.  :)  We also work on examining our habits and set-ups, setting little sleep goals, and finding ways to swear off the v-word (vakefulness).  I'll let @sarakingdom explain the League (her vampire accent is much better than mine).

 

So - what specifically are you having trouble with?  Are you staying up late, or just not able to sleep even with a good bed time? 

 

For me - I have some recurring bad habits with screen time or staying up late reading.  It's kind of a two-step dance for me, depending on some of the other stresses in life.  I've also recently installed light blocking curtains to a street facing window, and man, what a difference. 

 

I resemble that irony, although in my case I have a cat that wants attention (or to look out a window) at midnight, and then again at 5.  He's improved from when I first got him, but still has his moments.

 

I am having trouble falling asleep, and staying asleep once I am there.  I am actually pretty good about my bedtime--I stop studying at 9 so I can prep meals for the next day, in bed by 9:45 so I can hopefully be asleep by 10:30.  It ends up taking me anywhere from a half an hour to an hour to never to actually fall asleep; for example, I had an exam today and did not sleep at all last night, just tried to doze until I gave up and meditated.  

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3 hours ago, Treva said:

My vampire accent is terrible.  I will have to work on that.

Vell, you know, it is mostly ze z's, v's and, strangely, k's.  It's largely based on the vampires in Terry Pratchett's books, primarily Otto, the reformed vampire and iconographer for the Ankh-Morpork Times.

 

3 hours ago, Treva said:

I am having trouble falling asleep, and staying asleep once I am there.  I am actually pretty good about my bedtime--I stop studying at 9 so I can prep meals for the next day, in bed by 9:45 so I can hopefully be asleep by 10:30.  It ends up taking me anywhere from a half an hour to an hour to never to actually fall asleep; for example, I had an exam today and did not sleep at all last night, just tried to doze until I gave up and meditated.  

Vell, zat is a bugger, right enough.  I remember when I was in my early 20s that I'd have periods where getting to sleep was elusive like that.  Those were highly caffeinated years though.

 

A few questions - are you studying mostly on a computer, or books?  You could have blue light issues from a laptop, or maybe daylight tuned light bulbs (really white to slightly bluish).   

 

How much caffeine do you drink, and when's the cut off? 

 

Do you have a dark bedroom?  I didn't realize how much of an impact that was until after I actually put up light blocking curtains.  Wow.  There's a bright LED streetlight across the street from me, and it was seriously messing with my getting to sleep and sleep quality, regardless of when I went to bed.  They are cheap at target or ikea, etc, and worth a try. 

 

Bedroom temperature?  I sleep better in cold and am very restless if I get warm.

 

Does cooking wake you up?  I find it a very engaging activity, so I can get a little revved from it.  Light exercise will do the same, especially if I've been sitting a lot through the day.

 

Those are the basic things I could think of.  I know some people here have used melatonin - I don't have any experience with it.  Herbal 'sleepy time' type teas sometimes help me, especially with a little plain gelatin.

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I've read the first and last page of this thread and I see most of you are having trouble with getting to sleep on time and falling asleep at all. For me, that's not really a problem (anymore), but I do have enormous trouble with waking up in the morning. When I don't use an alarm, I usually wake up naturally somewhere between 8 and 8:30 am and I feel more or less fine. But, as that's obviously too late, I find myself having to use an alarm to wake up earlier. However, when I wake up this way I'm often so exhausted that it feels like I've just risen from the dead or something. I can barely even move and sometimes I seriously have no idea where I am, even though I'm in my own bed. So, what happens is that I often stay in bed for a while to give my body and mind some time to really wake up, but when I close my eyes for just 1 second I fall back asleep.

 

I'd really like to figure out how to feel more awake when I wake up, so any advice is welcome :)

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10 hours ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

Vell, you know, it is mostly ze z's, v's and, strangely, k's.  It's largely based on the vampires in Terry Pratchett's books, primarily Otto, the reformed vampire and iconographer for the Ankh-Morpork Times.

 

Vell, zat is a bugger, right enough.  I remember when I was in my early 20s that I'd have periods where getting to sleep was elusive like that.  Those were highly caffeinated years though.

 

A few questions - are you studying mostly on a computer, or books?  You could have blue light issues from a laptop, or maybe daylight tuned light bulbs (really white to slightly bluish).   

 

How much caffeine do you drink, and when's the cut off? 

 

Do you have a dark bedroom?  I didn't realize how much of an impact that was until after I actually put up light blocking curtains.  Wow.  There's a bright LED streetlight across the street from me, and it was seriously messing with my getting to sleep and sleep quality, regardless of when I went to bed.  They are cheap at target or ikea, etc, and worth a try. 

 

Bedroom temperature?  I sleep better in cold and am very restless if I get warm.

 

Does cooking wake you up?  I find it a very engaging activity, so I can get a little revved from it.  Light exercise will do the same, especially if I've been sitting a lot through the day.

 

Those are the basic things I could think of.  I know some people here have used melatonin - I don't have any experience with it.  Herbal 'sleepy time' type teas sometimes help me, especially with a little plain gelatin.

 

 

oh boy.  I've read mostly the ones with Susan.  Gotta get myself into the vampire ones I guess.

 

I study mostly on computer, laptop-tablet combo while I take handwritten notes, and then computers for practice questions.  I have a red-light app on my phone, which helps for night and mornings, but I haven't gotten one for my tablet yet.  

 

I don't drink much caffeine at all--maybe a cup of green tea in the afternoons once or twice a week.  Maybe a cup of coffee on the weekends.

 

I do my best to have a dark bedroom, but living in a city sucks.  It can be very noisy (tons of sirens at all hours), and it's very bright!  I've thought about light blocking curtains, but I'm currently in an apartment and don't want to be screwing in bars or things like that.

 

I keep my bedroom comfortable--if it gets cold my feet get cold and then I can't sleep at all.  It's weird, I know.  I tend to run pretty cool.

 

Probably?  I try to study for about 4 hours after classes, and then I go to the gym, kind of pre-dinner do all my workouts, and then after that sit around with dinner, tea, and plug in another hour or two of charts or practice questions until I force myself to stop or fall asleep.

 

i do have sleepytime teas!  Although they don't usually work for me.  I was considering melatonin, since my biggest difficulty sleeping happens before exams.

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@Huon What time are you going to bed, and do you actually sleep well through the night?  Are you actually getting to bed early enough for an earlier wake time?   My only two thoughts are a) your sleep cycle and alarms are mismatched and you're in the middle of a deep sleep when they go off - that will make you groggy.  b )  you may need to eat a little before bed   - I had come across something, I think on the BulletProof Blog, or maybe Mark's Daily Apple, about some people being groggy because they burn through a lot of glucose.  Do you perk up with breakfast?

 

@Treva  The vampire stuff is pretty well explained in 'The Truth'.  It's a good stand alone since you've already been introduced to the background with the Death/Susan books.

You might f.lux for your computer, especially as it looks like you sometimes have the screen going right up until bed. I recently installed it on my tablet and it seems to work well.   For the being awake all night before exams - between the hard time getting to sleep and minor anxiety, I could see that.  Kudos for dropping into meditation when sleep just isn't working though.

 

For living in an apartment, you might see if there are already holes drilled for curtain rods, but painted over - I've seen that before.  Or ask the super/landlord if they could or would be ok with you installing curtain rods.  Never hurts to ask, especially if you plan to be there through school.  Otherwise, a sleepmask can help with light, and apparently some have covers for the ears that help muffle city sounds.  You could consider white noise, too.  I"ve used ear plugs, and it's a little odd at first, but not bad, really. 

 

What tea are you having while you sit around with dinner? 

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6 hours ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

@Huon What time are you going to bed, and do you actually sleep well through the night?  Are you actually getting to bed early enough for an earlier wake time?   My only two thoughts are a) your sleep cycle and alarms are mismatched and you're in the middle of a deep sleep when they go off - that will make you groggy.  b )  you may need to eat a little before bed   - I had come across something, I think on the BulletProof Blog, or maybe Mark's Daily Apple, about some people being groggy because they burn through a lot of glucose.  Do you perk up with breakfast?

 

I usually go to bed around 11 pm and I've been sleeping pretty well lately, so I don't think that's where the problem lies. I've considered the sleep cycle thing as well and I've tried setting my alarm to go off at different times, but to no avail so far. The thing about eating before going to sleep might be a great idea though! I actually eat very little after dinner, so that may very well make a difference. I'll try it tonight, thanks!

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11 hours ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

 

@Treva  The vampire stuff is pretty well explained in 'The Truth'.  It's a good stand alone since you've already been introduced to the background with the Death/Susan books.

You might f.lux for your computer, especially as it looks like you sometimes have the screen going right up until bed. I recently installed it on my tablet and it seems to work well.   For the being awake all night before exams - between the hard time getting to sleep and minor anxiety, I could see that.  Kudos for dropping into meditation when sleep just isn't working though.

 

For living in an apartment, you might see if there are already holes drilled for curtain rods, but painted over - I've seen that before.  Or ask the super/landlord if they could or would be ok with you installing curtain rods.  Never hurts to ask, especially if you plan to be there through school.  Otherwise, a sleepmask can help with light, and apparently some have covers for the ears that help muffle city sounds.  You could consider white noise, too.  I"ve used ear plugs, and it's a little odd at first, but not bad, really. 

 

What tea are you having while you sit around with dinner? 

 

Ooo okay so that would be one to pick up.  Thanks!

f.lux looks great!  I just want to check it out a bit more, but it looks like the program I was hoping to find.  It looks like i could put it on my school computer which would be great (I was up until 10 studying last night).  

Exams I think are my biggest problem, and thanks!!  I didn't know what else to do, but I'd read somewhere that meditation was an option if you can't sleep but need to rest.  If I wear myself out enough before an exam sometimes I can sleep, but not always (I'll walk 3-4 miles sometimes).  

 

I'll give it a look, for sure.  Do people sometimes use shower rod/spring rods?  I have also used earplugs, or headphones with rain sounds.  Sleep masks are scary for me, I hate the idea of waking up blind, otherwise I think I would have gone for them.  I also try to get home once a month so I can get some rest NOT in the city.

 

Usually a lemon ginger, sometimes a fruity herbal tea.  Or sometimes I just drink lemonade, because I am an absolute sucker for lemonade.

 

Thank you for asking all these questions and having such helpful suggestions!  I appreciate you taking an interest/helping me with this problem.

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7 hours ago, Huon said:

I usually go to bed around 11 pm and I've been sleeping pretty well lately, .....

What time are you trying to get up?  Do you need an earlier bed time?  For eating - from what I recall, the recommendation to try was a small snack, primarily protein/fat.  Again, some plain gelatin in an herbal tea, or some almonds, etc. 

 

2 hours ago, Treva said:

f.lux looks great!  I just want to check it out a bit more, but it looks like the program I was hoping to find.  It looks like i could put it on my school computer which would be great (I was up until 10 studying last night).  

Yeah - start with the screen time and blue light.  Can you do any studying using text books, or practice exercises with pen & paper instead? 

 

2 hours ago, Treva said:

I'll give it a look, for sure.  Do people sometimes use shower rod/spring rods?  I have also used earplugs, or headphones with rain sounds.  Sleep masks are scary for me, I hate the idea of waking up blind, otherwise I think I would have gone for them.  I also try to get home once a month so I can get some rest NOT in the city.

I've not tried spring rods.  I suppose it depends on if there is a place for them.  For sleep masks - I hadn't thought of that before.  Most commentary has been they either need eye cups (no pressure on the eye lid - which they have now) or knocking them off at night (I do that).  The few times I've woke up with one on it didn't bother me. 

 

2 hours ago, Treva said:

Usually a lemon ginger, sometimes a fruity herbal tea.  Or sometimes I just drink lemonade, because I am an absolute sucker for lemonade.

Do the lemon ginger or lemonade have sugar in them?  Sugary drinks make me restless these days, especially if within a couple of hours of bed time (didn't when I was younger, probably changes in metabolism).

 

2 hours ago, Treva said:

Thank you for asking all these questions and having such helpful suggestions!  I appreciate you taking an interest/helping me with this problem.

Welcome!  I hope at least some of it helps.  You might page back through this thread - different people have been working on different issues, so you might see something that stands out to you. 

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