The Black Ribbon Thread (The Sleeping Quarters)

[sarakingdom]

3 hours ago, Liam P Boyle said:

Just hand me my black ribbon already ;-)

 

Oh my goodness, yes, it is now Veek Zero!  Ve must have a temperance meeting.  Ladies und gentlemen, please affix your black ribbons und open your songbooks to page vun hundred und three.  (Ve do not yet haff the harmonium, but a very nice one can be purchased used for vun hundred und seventy-five Ankh-Morpork dollars with barely any crossbow damage, so ve shall be passing the hat, vich vas very kindly knitted for this very purpose by Countess Amanita Marietta Sanguina von Wurttemberg.)

 

Sons und daughters of Ubervald

Who of noble blood are proud,

Lo! the glorious cause of temp'rance

for sleep our pledge is vowed

Vhile the monster

Still vithin the land is found

 

See the wretched vakeful reeling!

To their rest they must attend!

Hear the bed und pillow pleading!

Relief sveet sleep vould quickly send!

Cruel night-time

Vhen vill thy miseries end?

 

I know ve vunce were all de Children of de Night, but this is a modern vorld in vhich ve now live, and ve haff come to hold more enlightened views.  Ve must cast off the outdated vays of our ancestors and valk instead in the daylight, or at least at a more reasonable time of the clock, because the sun sets qvite early in the vinter.  Und so I must introduce myself, I am Sara und I haff trouble vith vake... vay... vith vay... vith the v-vord.  I pledge not vun drop of vakefullness after midnight.

 

Please go around und introduce yourselves und your pledge, and ve shall move on the Veek Zero discussion topic.

[ChrisWithaStick]

23 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I know ve vunce were all de Children of de Night, but this is a modern vorld in vhich ve now live, and ve haff come to hold more enlightened views.  Ve must cast off the outdated vays of our ancestors and valk instead in the daylight, or at least at a more reasonable time of the clock, because the sun sets qvite early in the vinter.  Und so I must introduce myself, I am Sara und I haff trouble vith vake... vay... vith vay... vith the v-vord.  I pledge not vun drop of vakefullness after midnight.

 

Please go around und introduce yourselves und your pledge, and ve shall move on the Veek Zero discussion topic.

 

My name is Chris, and I have trouble with the v-word.  The bright lights of the screen are enticing, as are the words on the page.  Oh the foul demon that is a joy of reading....

I shall endeavor to be in bed by midnight, if not earlier, and strive to put away the foul glowing contraption by 9 pm.  Pity me though, for I have let into my house a creature of the night, one immune to reason and pleading for mercy to be able to answer the sweet call of sleep...(for those that don't know me, I have a cat now...). 

[sarakingdom]

6 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

 

My name is Chris, and I have trouble with the v-word.  The bright lights of the screen are enticing, as are the words on the page.  Oh the foul demon that is a joy of reading....

I shall endeavor to be in bed by midnight, if not earlier, and strive to put away the foul glowing contraption by 9 pm.  Pity me though, for I have let into my house a creature of the night, one immune to reason and pleading for mercy to be able to answer the sweet call of sleep...(for those that don't know me, I have a cat now...). 

 

Velcome, Chris!  You are braver than I.  I cannot live (figuratively speaking) vithout the foul glowing contraption.  It's vhere I store half my brain.  Can you read in bed safely, vithout falling prey to too much v-vord?  And the cat, is it still vaking you at four?

 

I like your pledge, my vord, yes.  Not vun drop after midnight. 

[ChrisWithaStick]

2 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

Velcome, Chris!  You are braver than I.  I cannot live (figuratively speaking) vithout the foul glowing contraption.  It's vhere I store half my brain.  Can you read in bed safely, vithout falling prey to too much v-vord?  And the cat, is it still vaking you at four?

 

I like your pledge, my vord, yes.  Not vun drop after midnight. 

The glowing contraption is a black hole of time... it shall be placed on the night stand to recharge.  I can read in bed safely. 

 

For the merciless cat... yes, but now he's doing the 'I'm going sit here, pur, and stick my sharp claws variously into you or the bed' thing.  At 1 am, he's doing the 'I'm going to just lay here against your leg while I clean myself' routine.  And moves over to lean against my leg if I move it.  He's not getting up as much though, which is progress, of a sort. 

[sarakingdom]

21 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

The glowing contraption is a black hole of time... it shall be placed on the night stand to recharge.  I can read in bed safely. 

 

For the merciless cat... yes, but now he's doing the 'I'm going sit here, pur, and stick my sharp claws variously into you or the bed' thing.  At 1 am, he's doing the 'I'm going to just lay here against your leg while I clean myself' routine.  And moves over to lean against my leg if I move it.  He's not getting up as much though, which is progress, of a sort. 

 

I have started using it for audiobooks and podcasts in bed, things that are slightly-yet-not-fully engaging (like I don't care that much, or I've heard it before and forgotten most of it.  Then I turn the volume down so soft that I can just hear if I don't move around a lot, turn on the sleep timer, and close my eyes.  I'm also starting to set aside books I can only read in bed, just to get me actually into bed on time.

 

Hrm, disregard my previous cat advice, then.  He's settling down, he's just moving a lot and sharing the pointy bits.  But that's progress, you can probably vork with that.  Maybe get your cat a stuffed animal, just for bedtime, and if you're lucky, he'll start to claw that instead of you.  You'll probably get more used to the random movement, so long as the claws don't come out.

[ChrisWithaStick]

15 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

I have started using it for audiobooks and podcasts in bed, things that are slightly-yet-not-fully engaging (like I don't care that much, or I've heard it before and forgotten most of it.  Then I turn the volume down so soft that I can just hear if I don't move around a lot, turn on the sleep timer, and close my eyes.  I'm also starting to set aside books I can only read in bed, just to get me actually into bed on time.

 

Hrm, disregard my previous cat advice, then.  He's settling down, he's just moving a lot and sharing the pointy bits.  But that's progress, you can probably vork with that.  Maybe get your cat a stuffed animal, just for bedtime, and if you're lucky, he'll start to claw that instead of you.  You'll probably get more used to the random movement, so long as the claws don't come out.

Weirdly, audio keeps my attention.  I used to use music to relax, but found that I actually don't sleep till after it goes off.  Soft sounds really get my attention (so... even without the meowing I can wake up).  Then again, maybe the cat is good training for ignoring the sounds or developing a better 'pay attention!' filter in the brain. 

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

I haff reset my sleep detector to begin at 2 hours before the vitching hour.  Vith any luck the restlessness that causes the vake, the vake, the ##@@@##@@!!!!! v-vord shall subside.

[ChrisWithaStick]

Minor edit - the foul luminous device may be used for music, but not for reading (I don't have any other music player these days).  I'm not keeping it going too long - just a little past nine.   It's amazing how much I just like having a very quiet house. 

 

So long as we're having fun with Pratchett - in Monstrous Regiment, and I think The 5th Element, the black ribboners (Otto and Lady M., respectively), speak of transference - taking one pattern and replacing it with another.  Otto with Light, Lady M. with power (or manipulating the scales).  What might be your habit or at-night practice you need to switch to something else?  For me it's link-hopping or reading kindle books - hence, no glowy screen after 9, although I'm not sure paper books count as a real habit transfer or not.  What about you fellow ribboners, shaking off the v-word...any habits you might need to review and replace?

[sarakingdom]

You might vant to edit out that subtle Monstrous Regiment spoiler, Chris!

 

Link-hopping.  And trying to get one more job done, because I'm not satisfied that I've done enough (and often I haven't).  I'm not very productive, usually, but I always try.  (Like right now, I have pushed my schedule right to the very edge of the amount of time I need to work-er-vorkout and get to bed.)

 

Anything that gets me into bed, including the glowy screen, is acceptable.  Because once I'm in bed, the most time I'll waste is about an hour, and that's not too bad, especially since it's kind of resting.  If I don't make it into bed, that could be much, much more time.

[ChrisWithaStick]

But I like enticing spoilers...(or, I never think about them, sigh...)

[sarakingdom]

19 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

But I like enticing spoilers...(or, I never think about them, sigh...)

 

The coffee bit was cool, I just thought the other thing was fun to find out in reading the book.

 

I am currently in bed (two minutes to spare! I'm improving) and shopping sleep masks to replace the one that's kinda suboptimal.  I have become a fan, despite liking the light as an alarm clock in the morning.  I do seem to sleep a bit better if I shut out the light.  (Er, I mean... the light, it is not kind to our sort of people, if you know vhat I mean.)

[Luciana Valerosa Culming]

Yesterday it took me some time to get away from everything and find my v-vay to the bed. It's hard to call it a night, when you significant other is still awake.  

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

3 hours ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

Yesterday it took me some time to get away from everything and find my v-vay to the bed. It's hard to call it a night, when you significant other is still awake.  

No kidding.  

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

So, last night.  The family vanted to vatch the premier off "Scream Queens."  Vell, that ended at ten.  SquirrelKing vas running late returning from vork and valking in the door at that time.  I stated I vanted to go into the other room and lay down.  SWMBO vas like "no, no, ve're all going to bed soon."  So I lay down on the couch vith a pillow offer my eyes and try to banish the vakefulness.  Howeffer, the tv is on, lights are on and SWMBO is trying to talk to SquirrelKing about his day.  Then SWMBO's brother calls (he's in CA so it's only 8 PM there) and she ends up talking to him until fifteen mintues before the vitching hour.  At this point I'm fully vakeful, so finally getting to sleep takes some serious effort.

[sarakingdom]

7 hours ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

Yesterday it took me some time to get away from everything and find my v-vay to the bed. It's hard to call it a night, when you significant other is still awake.  

 

I know, cannot live vith them, cannot bite them.  It is qvite a dilemma.

 

2 hours ago, Draegon (Liam P Boyle) said:

So, last night.  The family vanted to vatch the premier off "Scream Queens."  Vell, that ended at ten.  SquirrelKing vas running late returning from vork and valking in the door at that time.  I stated I vanted to go into the other room and lay down.  SWMBO vas like "no, no, ve're all going to bed soon."  So I lay down on the couch vith a pillow offer my eyes and try to banish the vakefulness.  Howeffer, the tv is on, lights are on and SWMBO is trying to talk to SquirrelKing about his day.  Then SWMBO's brother calls (he's in CA so it's only 8 PM there) and she ends up talking to him until fifteen mintues before the vitching hour.  At this point I'm fully vakeful, so finally getting to sleep takes some serious effort.

 

If this is a pattern, I vould personally have the family meeting about this, vith a diary that include the frequency of the problem, because that cannot go on, and it's not nice of them.  (I mean, vhy can she not take the call into her bedroom and let you sleep?  I vould be very angry, und also feel she is not very good at poly, frankly, because this is not her actively solving or caring about the logistical problems involved.)  Next down the list in terms of confrontation vould be (if you rent) making a plan to move to a house vith vun more bedroom, so all parties can do as they please.  But vhat must happen at the least, I think, is that TV and lights go out when you vant to go to bed, not just for your sake, but as a signal to others that you seriously are going to bed, und not just hanging out vith them until bedtime, vhich is probably vhat they assume.  Just... turn them off.  The room is for sleeping now.  (Und also, I vill note, an eye-mask/earplug set on Amazon is under $10, und vill be useful for public spaces, even if they do get better about it, because there is unlikely to be no noise or changes in light.)  Or I vould consider other rooms in vhich to sleep.  Valmart's air mattresses are under $10, too, and I have slept on vun for months at a time vunce.  If it solves the problem by letting you sleep somevhere more private, it is vorth it.  (Und if there is no other room, a veek of you sleepink in your car vill cure them of the idea that all is vell.)

 

Anything to get more sleep, basically.  Anything.  If you can't rely on them to take your physical need for sleep seriously, vell, vork around it, don't keep doing vhat doesn't vork.  (But I vould not be happy at all with family that did not take my physical need for sleep seriously.)

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

I vill haff to asver this when the sun is at midday.

[ChrisWithaStick]

10 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

The coffee bit was cool, I just thought the other thing was fun to find out in reading the book.

 

I am currently in bed (two minutes to spare! I'm improving) and shopping sleep masks to replace the one that's kinda suboptimal.  I have become a fan, despite liking the light as an alarm clock in the morning.  I do seem to sleep a bit better if I shut out the light.  (Er, I mean... the light, it is not kind to our sort of people, if you know vhat I mean.)

Ah - that was actually the one bit I was looking forward to talking about, since it's major habit reformation.  I shall have to work on my inner Vinny, and start talking about the guy with the thing, you know, at that place, talking with that other guy about the vagon. (I'm really bad about paying attention to spoilers...)

 

For masks, the one I use occasionally I borrowed from my GF and it cups around the eyes, which is nice since I have stupidly long eye lashes.  I tend to knock it off my head though.

 

8 hours ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

Yesterday it took me some time to get away from everything and find my v-vay to the bed. It's hard to call it a night, when you significant other is still awake.  

I know this feeling very well.  The lady friend is a night owl and keeps her own schedule (sleeps in till 10), so it's a challenge when she's over, especially since I'm trying to change my habits (it's easy to match her hours on the weekend).  She has several projects going lately, trying to start her own business, so she's staying more at her place, so at least my week days I have some control.   I can only blame myself for being up late. 

 

3 hours ago, Draegon (Liam P Boyle) said:

So, last night.  The family vanted to vatch the premier off "Scream Queens."  Vell, that ended at ten.  SquirrelKing vas running late returning from vork and valking in the door at that time.  I stated I vanted to go into the other room and lay down.  SWMBO vas like "no, no, ve're all going to bed soon."  So I lay down on the couch vith a pillow offer my eyes and try to banish the vakefulness.  Howeffer, the tv is on, lights are on and SWMBO is trying to talk to SquirrelKing about his day.  Then SWMBO's brother calls (he's in CA so it's only 8 PM there) and she ends up talking to him until fifteen mintues before the vitching hour.  At this point I'm fully vakeful, so finally getting to sleep takes some serious effort.

Damn._{Imma gonna quit bitching about the cat now}  That's pretty rough.  Is that common? If so, then yes, I'd have a serious chat with the adults around the table (poly or not, although my poly friends, which includes my gf, would be all over making sure things were talked out).  If nothing else, reworking who sleeps where so you can get some sleep - a rested you is better for all, as is a far less frustrated you.  Instead of the common room, if there's another you could either a) move the TV too, or b ) set up a different sleeping place, maybe that would help?  Also - Coleman air mattresses are great, and cheap (Target/Wal-Mart).  Futon rolls aren't bad either. 

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

12 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

Damn._{Imma gonna quit bitching about the cat now}  That's pretty rough.  Is that common? If so, then yes, I'd have a serious chat with the adults around the table (poly or not, although my poly friends, which includes my gf, would be all over making sure things were talked out).  If nothing else, reworking who sleeps where so you can get some sleep - a rested you is better for all, as is a far less frustrated you.  Instead of the common room, if there's another you could either a) move the TV too, or b ) set up a different sleeping place, maybe that would help?  Also - Coleman air mattresses are great, and cheap (Target/Wal-Mart).  Futon rolls aren't bad either. 

Not as common as it sounds, thankfully.  (and b****ing about the cat is purrrfectly acceptable - I have have one also)  The apartment has three bedrooms one for KidZilla, one for PostEmoGirl, and one for SWMBO, SquirrelKing, and I.  Since I snore the loudest and may have restless leg (we're not sure and the VA won't pay for a sleep study) I usually end up sleeping in the common room on the couch.  (we have a really good couch for sleeping on).  Normally the entire family is heading to bed about the 22:30 - 23:00 time frame that I try to keep to.  The goal is for us to be able to move into a place where there are multiple bedrooms for the adults to resolve this problem as SWMBO, SquirrelKing, and I all seem to take turns having problems with getting enough sleep.

[sarakingdom]

27 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

Ah - that was actually the one bit I was looking forward to talking about, since it's major habit reformation.

 

Yeah, that's a bit I wanted to use, too.  (Honest, the spoiler was a subtle one!  I think we can talk about Maledict.  He's very interesting, with his slightly dysfunctional coffee addiction.  Come to think of it, they all have endearingly dysfunctional addictions.)

 

31 minutes ago, ChrisWithaStick said:

For masks, the one I use occasionally I borrowed from my GF and it cups around the eyes, which is nice since I have stupidly long eye lashes.  I tend to knock it off my head though.

 

That's the kind I'm trying.  I mean, vhat even is this crazy sleep technology.  In my day, ve had a blindfold and ve liked it.

[sarakingdom]

20 minutes ago, Draegon (Liam P Boyle) said:

Since I snore the loudest and may have restless leg (we're not sure and the VA won't pay for a sleep study) I usually end up sleeping in the common room on the couch.  (we have a really good couch for sleeping on).  Normally the entire family is heading to bed about the 22:30 - 23:00 time frame that I try to keep to.  The goal is for us to be able to move into a place where there are multiple bedrooms for the adults to resolve this problem as SWMBO, SquirrelKing, and I all seem to take turns having problems with getting enough sleep.

 

It seems like one extra bedroom would totally solve the problem, yeah, so it's just a question of making things work till then.

 

BTW, restless leg sometimes responds well to minor vitamin/mineral adjustments.  Iron, magnesium, and B vitamins are the big ones.  I'd bet there's a good chance you're running low on all three.  It's hard to get enough iron and magnesium, and lack of sleep and general stress probably means you're burning through whatever B vitamins you're getting.

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

3 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

It seems like one extra bedroom would totally solve the problem, yeah, so it's just a question of making things work till then.

 

BTW, restless leg sometimes responds well to minor vitamin/mineral adjustments.  Iron, magnesium, and B vitamins are the big ones.  I'd bet there's a good chance you're running low on all three.  It's hard to get enough iron and magnesium, and lack of sleep and general stress probably means you're burning through whatever B vitamins you're getting.

 

Quite possible, it also could be related to the nerve damage in my left leg.  As I said the VA really isn't sure.  A bit part of this challenge is going to be testing a few different strategies for dealing with it.  Being week 0, this is more or less my "control" week.

[sarakingdom]

2 minutes ago, Draegon (Liam P Boyle) said:

A bit part of this challenge is going to be testing a few different strategies for dealing with it.  Being week 0, this is more or less my "control" week.

 

That's awesome, that should be a good set of tests to run.  Man, whatever the cause, averaging four hours of sleep for the body to repair itself cannot be helping.

[Draegon (Liam P Boyle)]

Just now, sarakingdom said:

 

That's awesome, that should be a good set of tests to run.  Man, whatever the cause, averaging four hours of sleep for the body to repair itself cannot be helping.

I'm in absolute agreement.

[Mistr]

Hi, my name is Mistr, and I have trouble with the v-word too. I haf been doing better about not staying up until all hours, but I am still not getting enough sleep.

 

17 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Link-hopping.  And trying to get one more job done, because I'm not satisfied that I've done enough (and often I haven't).  I'm not very productive, usually, but I always try.  (Like right now, I have pushed my schedule right to the very edge of the amount of time I need to work-er-vorkout and get to bed.)

^^^^^^This

I often want to do one more thing. Often more than one more. I can vaguely remember the last time I felt caught up. I think it was last spring.

 

16 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I am currently in bed (two minutes to spare! I'm improving) and shopping sleep masks to replace the one that's kinda suboptimal.  I have become a fan, despite liking the light as an alarm clock in the morning.  I do seem to sleep a bit better if I shut out the light.  (Er, I mean... the light, it is not kind to our sort of people, if you know vhat I mean.)

 

I used a sleep mask and ear plugs when I was sharing a hotel room for the randori workshop three weeks ago. The hotel was sandwiched between a freeway and a rail yard. The curtains did a poor job of keeping out the light from the front parking lot. I hate the sleep mask, but it did help. The earplugs help even more. It turns out that all those little noises get to me more than I thought.

 

13 hours ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

Yesterday it took me some time to get away from everything and find my v-vay to the bed. It's hard to call it a night, when you significant other is still awake.  

 

5 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I know, cannot live vith them, cannot bite them.  It is qvite a dilemma.

^^^^^This too.

I am used to Dumbledore working in the evening after I go to bed. His office is in the basement so he doesn't bother me. It actually works well if I can fall asleep by myself an hour or two before he comes to bed. If he stays up too late, I worry about him and then am wide awake.

 

What I find much harder is when Dumbledore and Elf get into conversation in the kitchen right after I go to bed. I can't actually hear the words, but from the rumble of voices I know that I am missing out on something interesting. It works better for me if they go to a room where I can't hear them at all and I don't know what I'm missing.

 

[sarakingdom]

Velcome, Mistr!

 

4 hours ago, Mistr said:

I hate the sleep mask, but it did help.

 

I, too, hate the mask.  But I do sleep more soundly, it cannot be denied.  It's hard to get the little bits of light out.  So I am upgrading to the latest technology, vhich is probably made by dwarfs or something, in hopes that it is less hateful.

 

4 hours ago, Mistr said:

What I find much harder is when Dumbledore and Elf get into conversation in the kitchen right after I go to bed. I can't actually hear the words, but from the rumble of voices I know that I am missing out on something interesting. It works better for me if they go to a room where I can't hear them at all and I don't know what I'm missing.

 

Perhaps again the earplugs, ja?  Or, failing that, a funny sign in the kitchen about how planning heists there is likely to be overheard and also you vill vant your cut, so it's best if they scheme elsevhere.  People enjoy the funny signs, there are many funny signs back in Ubervald.

 

So not vun drop of sleep less than 7.5 hours, yes?