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Gainsdalf the Whey

February Feats for Ferrous Ferocity 2016!

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Can I still sign up to do this? My lifts won't be great, but I think it would be a good experience.

 

20 seconds of courage and all that. My bench will probably be terrible, because idk if I'll be able to get a spot.

I'll see what I can work out though!

 

Yes? No? (I'd be doing it this evening or tomorrow)

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Well, hell ... Sunday's it, huh?

 

I've been lurking in this thread since day one. I should probably just do it if for no other reason than to post improvement next time.

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Well, hell ... Sunday's it, huh?

 

I've been lurking in this thread since day one. I should probably just do it if for no other reason than to post improvement next time.

That's the point! I compete in them almost every time now just to have an excuse to check my current maxes and have fun with everyone. I rarely win any titles unless the people who are stronger than me forget to compete or something. Even if I'm not at a point in my training to truly hit 1 rep maxes, I'll just screw with my lifting schedule one week and hit 90-95% singles for the comp. This time for example I've deadlifted 2-3 times in the past few months, so I just went really light for my first attempt to get a total, then picked something I might be able to pull, but probably not.

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Okay, probably not the right place to ask this, but how does the Sinclair formula work? In theory, to beat Niccolo (which I won't do, but this is a theoretical), I'd have to lift almost the same as him as a woman 40kg lighter... which doesn't seem right!

Am I misunderstanding something along the line?

 

 

Sinclair doesn't normalize between women and men. The women's Sinclair ratio is to get to what you would theoretically lift as a 75+, where the men's Sinclair ratio is to get to what Niccolo would lift as a 105+.

I think I saw a rough swag on Reddit that you would multiply a women's Sinclair by 1.44 to normalize to men's, but that's not a perfect science either since Sinclair is based on WRs and the women's world records still aren't as mature.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

So if guys are competing for the NF weightlifting crown, they're almost certain to beat the women (I think Angela hitting PBs is the only one who could beat Niccolo's total)?

As I say, even if I do the weightlifting comp this time, I'm brand new and doing it for lolz, but that seems oddly unfair.

Edited to add: I've just never noticed this before because I'd never looked at the weightlifting side of things other than a "Ooh, look! Someone won!" glance.

 

 

Agreed with all of these.  There should be more of an advantage going into the lifting as a lighter weight.  I looked up the IWF Sinclair Calculator and it said for SpecialSundae, she'd need a total of about 154 kg at her 63 kg bodyweight to beat my 185 kg at 103 kg bodyweight. 

 

There may be a problem with the Sinclair formula used. It looks like the formula in the table is correct as S.C. = 10^(A*(log(x/b)))^2 (provided that x<=b ), with x = bodyweight and A and b coefficients.  For both the men and the women, the formula should be S.C. = 1 (if x>b ).  However, it looks like there are different coefficients used.

Spreadsheet Formula Women's:

A = 1.056683941

b = 125.441 kg

 

IWF Standard Women's:

A = 0.897260740

b = 148.26 kg

 

I think that updating these coefficients would address this problem.  Also, I'd like to point out that the men's coefficients are incorrect and should be A = 0.794358141 and b = 174.393 kg.  This benefits me by a whole 0.4 kg in my Sinclair total.  ;)

 

For coding the spreadsheet, might I suggest:

 

=if(B28=0,0,if(C28="f",if(B28<=148.26,10^(0.89726074*(log10(B28/148.026))^2),1),if(B28<=174.393,10^(0.794358141*(log10(B28/174.393))^2),1)))

That way, it will decide whether to use the full equation based on the bodyweight.

 

Yay Spreadsheets!

 

About Msuroo's comment, it indeed does look like there may not be a good way to compare between men and women.  They are intended to see where you are in comparison with an "ideal" lifter of the same weight and gender.  I'm not sure what can be done to compare between men and women, though...

 

Related thought, is Wilkes set up to compare between genders? 

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*waves*

 

*waves*

 

Will fix the formulas before declaring winners, thanks for finding that. Probably won't be until Monday, but may get to it over the weekend.

 

Roo's explanation was very good.

 

Posting numbers soon.  (Nobody said I pressed out Lift #3, but would appreciate it.  Still working out technical issues.)

 

Looking forward to getting wtfpwnt by the likes of Catspaw and AngelatheGeek and all the other Oly lifting ladies.  :)

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Numbers posted!  As my first virtual competition it was a lot of fun to hit some longterm goals....deadlifting my bodyweight and squatting the big plates. A PR in bench too. Thanks for organizing this!

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Did mine tonight.

 

bw = 190lbs

S: 285, 305, 320x

B: 235, 255, 275x

D: 385, 405, XXX

 

All pounds of course. Converted to KG for the spreadsheet, too lazy to recalc or copy paste here. I would totally operate my lift records in metric if my plates and available body weight scales were in metric.

 

A fair distance from my previous bests of 335, 285, 445. I am still in linear progression after my hiatus. Bench felt really good despite the failed 3rd attempt. The last time I was at or under 190 lb bodyweight was over a year ago. I had to move the belt latch one notch tighter.

 

 

 

Can I still sign up to do this? My lifts won't be great, but I think it would be a good experience.

 

20 seconds of courage and all that. My bench will probably be terrible, because idk if I'll be able to get a spot.

I'll see what I can work out though!

 

Yes? No? (I'd be doing it this evening or tomorrow)

 

 

Well, hell ... Sunday's it, huh?

 

I've been lurking in this thread since day one. I should probably just do it if for no other reason than to post improvement next time.

 

 

 

Stop asking permission. Stop lurking.

 

It has always been your potential accomplishment. Come claim what is yours!

 

This goes the same for any other timid lurkers out there.

 

...like anyone would even object, ElvEng. The more, the merrier.

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So yeah. The Sinclair thing is tricky and I've never really been a fan of lumping both genders together under any metric really. There's just no real good way to do it. Even within genders the coefficients are biased and get more and more sketchy the further from the norm you go. That said, I can see two possible solutions. Neither is very good but hey, all's fair in internet lifting comps. 

 

First option is to just treat all the women like men and assign them coefs off the men's scale based on their bodyweight. This will heavily bias the lightest women but that's probably the better alternative for our purposes.

 

Second option is more work and only arguably more fair. It involves basically implementing a USAW world/international team selection ranking process on the comp. This way everyone is ranked by their performance with respect to the average placement totals in their weight class at international events. It's similar to the Sinclair in this respect but invokes a little less statistical lamp shading. I'm normally not a fan of this sort of over complicated athlete ranking but in this case it might just be warranted as long as everyone agrees that the lifter who lifts closest to the elite of their weight class is "the best" lifter. Again women will have an advantage here since, as Roo mentioned, the women's totals aren't as mature but show no signs of slowing down on the international level.

 

If anyone wants to explore this option on the spreadsheet I can dig up the requisite data and examples (current US international team rankings).

 

Edit: I'm working on tracking down the data but the USAW in their infinite wisdom deem it fit to publish all sorts of inconsistent rankings. For instance, they published the latest women's rankings based on the system I'm talking about but the men's on projected placement, which is an entirely different thing all together. Though this is probably due to the Pan Am goals of each team. The women are trying to decide who to send to Rio while the men are still trying to earn a spot. Again, it's an artifact of trying to compare gender to gender when no one else cares, ha.

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Another option is to have men's and women's champions in both sports, but I know that's not a popular one.

 

I had actually been thinking about this yesterday and think it's a good idea. More titles up for grabs and more healthy competition across all members rather than a handful of people dominating. 

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I'm obviously pro splitting it up but I'm sure we talked about that in the past. Can't remember what the general feeling was or why we didn't do it way back when.

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Did mine last night. It's amazing what anger does for my lifts.

 

BW: 64 kg

 

Stuff in lbs.

Squats: 185, 195, 210  << PR! 5 lb

Bench: 85, 95, 100  << matched current PR

Deadlift: 205 sumo (current PR), 215 conventional, 225X

 

Had a nice case of rage going and planned on hitting the gym just for some volume, but squats at 175 were going nicely so I decided to go for gold. 210 was good, definitely a grinder, but my knee tracking was pretty good compared to how it has been. Bench I just worked up to my current max, it wasn't terribly difficult, but I also wasn't super confident in going higher either. I also wanted to save the rage for deadlifts. I pulled sumo up to 205 (which was a grinder) so I switched to conventional for 215. Was less hard than I thought it would be so I went for 225 and budged it maybe 2 inches off the floor. I think 220 could have been possible, but 225 just wasn't moving.

 

I have a video of the 210 PR squat, but not the deadlift :P https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9GMUSemFGDYSEZ3R3FSX3JLMDA

Matty called me on depth, but I think it would be fine. Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

Note to mods/Rooks: My lifts are higher, but so is my weight so I don't think my Wilks is any better. So for leaderboards keep whatever has higher Wilks please.

 

I think it was felt that there weren't enough people competing to make it worthwhile

It's so hit or miss it seems. This time there is a fair amount of competitors, but last time (maybe the time before?) there was only I think 7 people who lifted.

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Did mine last night. It's amazing what anger does for my lifts.

 

BW: 64 kg

 

Stuff in lbs.

Squats: 185, 195, 210  << PR! 5 lb

Bench: 85, 95, 100  << matched current PR

Deadlift: 205 sumo (current PR), 215 conventional, 225X

 

Had a nice case of rage going and planned on hitting the gym just for some volume, but squats at 175 were going nicely so I decided to go for gold. 210 was good, definitely a grinder, but my knee tracking was pretty good compared to how it has been. Bench I just worked up to my current max, it wasn't terribly difficult, but I also wasn't super confident in going higher either. I also wanted to save the rage for deadlifts. I pulled sumo up to 205 (which was a grinder) so I switched to conventional for 215. Was less hard than I thought it would be so I went for 225 and budged it maybe 2 inches off the floor. I think 220 could have been possible, but 225 just wasn't moving.

 

I have a video of the 210 PR squat, but not the deadlift :tongue: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9GMUSemFGDYSEZ3R3FSX3JLMDA

Matty called me on depth, but I think it would be fine. Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

Note to mods/Rooks: My lifts are higher, but so is my weight so I don't think my Wilks is any better. So for leaderboards keep whatever has higher Wilks please.

 

It's so hit or miss it seems. This time there is a fair amount of competitors, but last time (maybe the time before?) there was only I think 7 people who lifted.

 

I first read this as kg not lbs and nearly fell out of my chair.

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... Stop lurking ...

What's wrong with lurking? I find it a very productive way of learning new things. I contribute when I have some actual experience that could be helpful. 

 

Otherwise, you can always find me ... in my quiet corner ... people watching ... sometimes hang'n with the others who lack any kind of social awareness or aptitude.

 

This is "Nerd" fitness after all. It actually could be a very crowded corner ... if it wasn't for our extreme apprehension of crowds.

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