Comparison and judging

[Butternut]

I have a question for pure curiosity for women's points of view and perception   and kind of need to get this out. 

 

Do you compare yourself to other women and/or judge their bodies? If so how do you handle that criticism in your head?

 

i ask this because I came to this realization several months ago when I saw a woman at a park playing with her kids, I looked at her stomach and made my judgement in my head but a question popped in my head "why am I looking at her body and deciding who she is instead of seeing this woman as a Mother?" Don't get me wrong I  know it's not right to judge and I view everyone as equal individuals for who they are, but it's this instant judgement I have when I first look at a woman. 

 

When I had that question hit me i noticed it's the first thing I look at in the mirror is my waist, stomach, love handles. I have that judgement to myself. 

 

So in these last few months I've stopped my judgement by what the woman is doing. A mother, worker, jogger, etc. since then I find myself looking at myself the same way, I am a mother, an rogue athlete (made that up), and a wife, etc. not by if my belly is bloated or if I look "wide"

 

Am I sounding crazy, am I the only one that (used too) judges women's bodies or is this normal and if so how do you deal with the self talk and criticism? 

[Polaris]

4 hours ago, Butternut said:

Am I sounding crazy, am I the only one that (used too) judges women's bodies or is this normal -- ? 

First of all: it's totally normal. Not to say that it's a good thing, but the fact is, as women we're raised to compete against each other and judge each other, often specifically by looks since it's the Most Important Thing (tm) a woman can have. Not gonna lie, I used to be a very judgmental a**hole, until I realized other women's looks are none of my business, and reminded myself of that every time I noticed I was silently judging someone. As a highly visual person, I still observe people a lot, but from a neutral point of view (bodies can be so different and it's fascinating); rarely I see, say, a really thin girl at the gym with bones sticking out and think "oh, I hope she doesn't have an eating disorder", but I'd say it's honest concern rather than judging.

 

Comparison, though - I compare myself to other ladies all the time, especially at the gym, where people usually dress in a way that lets you easily see their body composition. Sometimes it's how much more they can bench/squat/deadlift, other times it's for certain body parts or their whole appearance. Like, I often think, "man, she has the perfect arms/legs/shoulders/glutes, wonder what her workout's like". Then there are the women who seem to have a Perfect Body - tall or petite, and muscular yet lean yet hourglass shaped - the kind that if I saw them in a picture, I'd call Photoshop. One of my best friends is, in fact, a target of my constant envy both because of her performance and her looks.

 

I used to have a lot of issues with body image and I'm still my own worst critic, but I've actually got a lot better. I've gone from hating my body to "I look pretty good, but still have work to do", which I'm fine with rn - I still have spells of dysmorphia and self-hate, but they're short-lived and even during, I know they're BS. Now when I find myself envying other women at the gym, I employ one of two responses: 1) If it's an issue of strength, or really good [body part] THAT I COULD REALISTICALLY HAVE in terms of bone structure, effort required etc., I think of it as a goal. I have a tumblr tag and pinterest board where I add 'body/fitness goals' that I aim to reach one day. And I might compliment the impressive lady, who more often than not turns out to be really nice even though she may look intimidating. 2) If it's something I KNOW I could never have, like it requires a completely different kind of frame, I'll admit I'm jealous, but remind myself that people have different bases to work with, and I'll never have her body. I can, however, have a different but equally awesome body.

 

Not sure if that's helpful, I kind of just rambled... I guess what helped me most was to learn to realistically assess what's possible for me, personally, with the body that I have, and not the Fantasy Body I Wish I Had. I realize it can be hard if you're used to judging yourself harshly, and thinking you look/do worse than you actually do. So lots of practice, and baby steps. One thing that also helped me was to find pictures of fit women with my body type - a lot of fitness models are taller, narrower (at the hips, for example), and at a lower body fat % than I could ever maintain, and then I saw this picture of Iskra Lawrence and realized that she kinda looks like me, and she looks good.

[Cataleya]

I compare, but I don't know that I judge. Just as an example: Say I'm on the track. A woman passes me. She looks really fit. I wonder about how long she's been training, if she also lifts weights, whatever. I might look at her body composition to make some guesses.

 

Say I'm running on the track and I see a woman pass me. She's bigger than I am. I wonder much of the same things, except I might even be a little more impressed, because she's passing me and she's bigger than me, so good for her. I'm not tiny by any means, so hey, if she's running faster than I am, that's awesome.

 

I also do this for guys but less so? It's more of an apples to oranges comparison.

I'm usually the only woman lifting weights, or if I'm not, I'm one of the only ones using barbells. Most of the women at my gym use the machines. Sometimes I get a little judgy about that I guess, but then I remember I'm a fairly recent convert to the barbell myself.

 

I do judge myself pretty harshly. That's actually gotten less bad as time has gone on?

[Raincloak]

If I see a woman looking very good, I admire, and perhaps envy a bit.  I might take note of what she's wearing and try to decide if such an outfit/haircut would look good on me (I suck pretty bad at fashion, so I find inspiration wherever I can).  If she has a great figure, I'll probably think "I have got to step up my workouts."  Then I get on with my day.  Just like those thousand-dollar handbags and strings of diamonds in the store windows, it doesn't do to dwell too much on perfect smiles and Crossfit bodies.  Why make myself depressed?  Some things I wasn't meant to have, but what I have now is pretty good.

 

If I see a woman looking very plain, I pity her a little, and take care not to stare.  If I've got nothing more important to think about, I envision what she might look like if she were at a healthy weight, well dressed and with a good haircut.  I like to picture people looking their best, even if the person in front of me actually looks like shit.  Then I get on with my day.

Most women I meet, I don't think anything much about their appearance.  Unless they're way down at one end of the beauty spectrum, I don't spend any time consciously rating it or meditating on it.  People-watching is fun if you're on the bus or waiting in line, but most of the time I have other things on my mind, and I never could stand gossip or catty girls.  Maybe I'm unusual, since I also have a habit (or neurological quirk) of not looking at people's faces when I talk to them.  I also don't put a ton of thought into my own appearance, apart from that required by basic grooming and getting dressed.  If I could, I'd wear jeans and t-shirts 24/7, because they don't require me to avoid stains, or match things, or watch my posture, or walk like a crab, or blah blah blah.  So ... maybe I'm just less aware of such things.  But I'm not sorry.

[Butternut]

19 hours ago, Polaris said:

First of all: it's totally normal. Not to say that it's a good thing, but the fact is, as women we're raised to compete against each other and judge each other, often specifically by looks since it's the Most Important Thing (tm) a woman can have. Not gonna lie, I used to be a very judgmental a**hole, until I realized other women's looks are none of my business, and reminded myself of that every time I noticed I was silently judging someone. As a highly visual person, I still observe people a lot, but from a neutral point of view (bodies can be so different and it's fascinating); rarely I see, say, a really thin girl at the gym with bones sticking out and think "oh, I hope she doesn't have an eating disorder", but I'd say it's honest concern rather than judging.

 

Not sure if that's helpful, I kind of just rambled...

 

 and then I saw this picture of Iskra Lawrence and realized that she kinda looks like me, and she looks good.

I'm glad you Rambled, thats kind of what I wanted.  

 

Why do you think were raised to judge other women?  I was thinking that the other day as well, becuase I have a daughter and I want her to have alot less worry then I did growing up.

 

When I was growing up I had 3 very thin sisters, they would borrow each other clothes while I sat in my size 13 jeans felling like a lard.  Even though they never really called me fat, (only a few times from here and there) but I always felt that way.

 

I like how you said you just go by what your body will do for you.  I again used to use my sisters as reference, they are string beans, I got meat. Since I've thinned out I still have a wider waist, but I notice I am more shapely then my sisters. And I am proud of that.  So I go with what I have. I like your idea to use a woman around your body shape.

 

And yes, that Iskra Lawrence does look good!  

 

18 hours ago, Cataleya said:

I'm usually the only woman lifting weights, or if I'm not, I'm one of the only ones using barbells. Most of the women at my gym use the machines. Sometimes I get a little judgy about that I guess, but then I remember I'm a fairly recent convert to the barbell myself.

I do the same, but I always fell like an ass after I think those things because your right.  I used to think you had to use the machines.  But Man after you get using free weights, I don't think I could ever go back.

 

@Raincloak I admire that, you see someone for what they would look like at their best!  There are women I see and wonder what they would look like if they ate better and healthier.  I have a friend who is a stress ball and only eats junk and I just wish she would eat better not to look good but because she would be happier.  Plus she is already really pretty, she would be glowing if she was more positive.

[Polaris]

2 hours ago, Butternut said:

Why do you think were raised to judge other women?  I was thinking that the other day as well, becuase I have a daughter and I want her to have alot less worry then I did growing up.

Basically because we live in a sexist society where women are valued and judged by their beauty before everything else, like it's the most important thing a woman can (and must) have. And also because of that sexism, we're subtly encouraged to compete against other women instead of working together to smash the patriarchy and do other awesome stuff. (See: "I'm not like the other girls"; "I only have guy friends bc girls are catty"; all that stems from the same mindset.) So because we've internalized that crap, we judge both ourselves and other women's looks and compare in order to know where we stand in the 'pecking order'. (Don't even get me started on how race and age play into this equation. I had a crisis when I turned 25 because I was "too old and hence no longer pretty enough" to find love.)

 

2 hours ago, Butternut said:

I like how you said you just go by what your body will do for you.  I again used to use my sisters as reference, they are string beans, I got meat. Since I've thinned out I still have a wider waist, but I notice I am more shapely then my sisters. And I am proud of that.  So I go with what I have. I like your idea to use a woman around your body shape.

I have the same situation, but with my little brother. We look (and otherwise are) like complete opposites: I'm short-ish/medium-height, fairly big-boned with wide hips (thanks, dad), easily gain weight, pale as a vampire, dark eyes, did well in school but sucked at all sports. My brother is really tall, has always been thin and lean despite eating whatever, naturally blonde and blue-eyed, tans easily, used to compete in sports on national level because he was that talented, but otherwise he's kind of a dumbass (I can say that because he's my brother :P) Genes are weird, man.

 

I used to hate just about every single thing about my appearance that I inherited, from my body shape to the bump in my nose, and I wished I could swap bodies with someone else and look completely different. It took a lot of time, but now I like most of the same features I used to hate, and would be unlikely to accept a complete body-swap if that was possible, even if the potential swap-partner looked really good, because I want to look like... well, me, and not someone else. (Except if I could swap with, say, Lucy Liu. I would gladly look like Lucy Liu.)

 

21 hours ago, Cataleya said:

I do judge myself pretty harshly. That's actually gotten less bad as time has gone on?

I had to quote this because I'm like a reverse hypocrite, or something. I mean, I will fight tooth and nail for other women's right to do and look as they choose, and talk about how stupid, unfair and downright impossible the beauty standards are - but when it comes to myself, I hold myself to so many of those BS standards! It's like, rationally I know everything that's bad about them, but at the same time, I know the society still largely operates by those rules, so I still push myself to look flawlessly beautiful and eternally young... no matter how unfair and unrealistic it is.

[TheGreyJedi-Ranger]

2 hours ago, Butternut said:

Why do you think were raised to judge other women?  I was thinking that the other day as well, becuase I have a daughter and I want her to have alot less worry then I did growing up.

 

When I was growing up I had 3 very thin sisters, they would borrow each other clothes while I sat in my size 13 jeans felling like a lard.  Even though they never really called me fat, (only a few times from here and there) but I always felt that way.

 

I like how you said you just go by what your body will do for you.  I again used to use my sisters as reference, they are string beans, I got meat. Since I've thinned out I still have a wider waist, but I notice I am more shapely then my sisters. And I am proud of that.  So I go with what I have. I like your idea to use a woman around your body shape.

So I used to be very judgemental about bodies: mine and others. 

 

I know why it is for me. My mom: who is a wonderful woman but is so insecure that she is a bit judgey. See, my little sister is a competitive gymnast. She's got the body type that my mom idolizes: thin and almost willowy (but she's kinda short). And growing up, it felt like my sister was getting a ton of praise for her athleticism/singing voice/body type/food choices/etc while my mom was always trying to get me to eat better and exercise and lose weight. It doesn't help that my sister is my mom's mini-me and I kinda felt like she favored my sister. Later, my mom began to use it as a weapon when she was angry until I convinced her that it doesn't affect me (it does, from her anyway).

 

I, on the other hand, am hourglass shaped. I've got hips, boobs, a butt, and thighs. I'm not built to be 'willowy.' She's always going on about weight and size and things. I can't count the number of times I've heard "don't forget about your wedding dress" over the past couple of months when I go to eat something. Because I've unfortunately always been very bothered by the opinions of others.

 

Luckily, I'm learning how not to. My fiance has always encouraged me to love myself for myself. And I'm learning to. And I try not to judge people I see anymore because even though I weigh almost 30lbs more than I did at 16, I'm SO MUCH HEALTHIER than I was at 16. I run regularly, I'm taking a gym class for core training this semester, and my body is healthier now overall.

 

I think that the problem is that we're all trapped by beauty standards. And the generation before mine (I'm 21), the 90's adults, saw the waifishly thin beauty standard and we're starting to break into something else that will probably end up being equally as unhealthy for us. The exterior world is going to want girls to conform to beauty standards. The best suggestion that I can make in regards to parenting that is to find a balance between encouraging healthy habits and pushing obsession over appearance. (yeah, I know, pretty obvious but still)

 

My mom's parents are of the American Southern Good Home Cookin™ sort who love heavy meals and lots of food. She wasn't regulated at all. So she went a bit overboard with me. I don't resent her or my sister for it anymore, I just turn as much of a deaf ear to her comments as I can. I'm pretty happy. I may have hips and boobs, but I've got a small natural waist ratio. Which means that the 50's pinup look and the high waisted/crop top look is something I can pull off really well. I find clothes I look good in, and try not to be bothered when I can't wear a certain style (sheath dresses make me look like a walrus for example).

 

Most people are taught, consciously or unconsciously to judge, the best things happen when we learn to overcome it and see people as people and not in comparison with ourselves, even though it's hard to forget it or ignore it

[mdwill]

21 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Basically because we live in a sexist society where women are valued and judged by their beauty before everything else, like it's the most important thing a woman can (and must) have. And also because of that sexism, we're subtly encouraged to compete against other women instead of working together to smash the patriarchy and do other awesome stuff. (See: "I'm not like the other girls"; "I only have guy friends bc girls are catty"; all that stems from the same mindset.) So because we've internalized that crap, we judge both ourselves and other women's looks and compare in order to know where we stand in the 'pecking order'. (Don't even get me started on how race and age play into this equation. I had a crisis when I turned 25 because I was "too old and hence no longer pretty enough" to find love.)

 

I disagree that it's the "sexist society" or it's "patriarchy", I think it's human nature to look at others and compare ourselves ... women do it and men do it, we do it with body, money, stuff, and accomplishments ect.  As a guy I have compared myself to others and always came up short until people let me know they compare themselves to me and came up short as well.  We all compare our weaknesses to what we perceive as ideal.  An example is when I was out of shape I would see people that are slim and muscular (Think Bruce Lee) and think "Why can't I look like that", what stopped me was when people started to say "man I wish I had a memory like you".  Just my thoughts and ideas on why.   

[Snarkyfishguts]

I do look at other women and I wonder what their story is.  But honestly, I worry more about what people think of me than what I think of them. I'm very self-absorbed this way.

[Cataleya]

2 hours ago, Polaris said:

I had to quote this because I'm like a reverse hypocrite, or something. I mean, I will fight tooth and nail for other women's right to do and look as they choose, and talk about how stupid, unfair and downright impossible the beauty standards are - but when it comes to myself, I hold myself to so many of those BS standards! It's like, rationally I know everything that's bad about them, but at the same time, I know the society still largely operates by those rules, so I still push myself to look flawlessly beautiful and eternally young... no matter how unfair and unrealistic it is.

Yeah, I'm similar in this sense. I mean, it comes and goes. I think lately I'm finally starting to see some changes? So I'm judging myself less harshly. But I also am way impatient and just want to look like Power Girl, so sometimes I'm just like, "Why the @#$% aren't you perfect like you're supposed to be?" I definitely do hold myself to societal standards but don't really do it for other women.

[Butternut]

@Polaris I agree so much of what you said, but I see what @mdwill is saying too. We are naturally that way but were also not taught that. We're taught like Polaris said to compete with each other. I've always been that type to Only have guy friends and pick on girls who worked hard on their looks.  Why not see what they are doing as a human instead of their appearances?? I've realized I'm set in that sexist ways but towards women!! But I am a woman!?!? It's weird. Now that I'm older, a mother of a son and daughter I want them to not fall into the trap I was raised in.  I want them to understand those feeling are normal but it's looking at who and what the person does that makes them who they are. They're appearances have very little to do with it.

 

We have people stopping us telling my daughter how pretty she is or cute or how pretty her eye lashes are. It's    Seriously every time we go out.  Lately she's been asking me if she looks cute in her outfits or when she does her hair and I just look at her and ask "are you comfy?" And she'll say "yes" then I asked "do you like what your wearing?" She nodded yes and I said "then you look glowing! Because that's being beautiful, being who you are!" She gave a smile. And if course a girly twirl and went on her way. I hope that works, time will only tell. :-/ 

 

I'm glad that models are getting thicker and your seeing real looking people here and there but it could be better.

 

@TheGreyJedi-Ranger I'm so sorry for how your mother treated you.  but I'm glad you've found someone to get you to love you for who you are. I really believe we hold on too our childhood roles.  

[Butternut]

14 hours ago, TheGreyJedi-Ranger said:

 

Most people are taught, consciously or unconsciously to judge, the best things happen when we learn to overcome it and see people as people and not in comparison with ourselves, even though it's hard to forget it or ignore it

I forgot I wanted to quote this because it's very well said. 

[Cataleya]

I think it's also important to remember the fundamental attribution bias, which is that human beings tend to attribute stable characteristics to other people rather than trying to understand situational factors, generally when bad things are happening. A relevant example might be if you see an overweight person eating at McDonalds, eating a burger and a Diet Coke. We are predisposed to think something along the lines of, "Oh that person doesn't take care of him/herself, s/he eats like crap and thinks that Diet Coke is going to save him/her," etc. etc. etc. When really it might be that this person forgot their lunch for the first time in six months and is trying to make the best of a crappy situation, or maybe they're only there because s/he is eating out with a friend they haven't seen in a long time and that's where the friend wanted to eat, whatever.

 

We also have a self-serving bias, which is kind of the opposite: we tend to attribute situational factors to ourselves when bad things happen, and internal characteristics to our successes. So when we don't lose weight, it's because we were tired and there was that party and the weather was bad and everything else, and when we do lose weight, it's from our hard work and dedication and not that we had extra time to work out this week and had someone else cooking our meals, whatever.

 

I think these kinds of things play into a lot of the societal stuff people were also talking about, and that can make it especially difficult to break free of those habits. It's a conscious choice to move away from those kinds of behaviors/thought processes in a lot of cases.

[mdwill]

1 hour ago, Cataleya said:

I think it's also important to remember the fundamental attribution bias, which is that human beings tend to attribute stable characteristics to other people rather than trying to understand situational factors, generally when bad things are happening. A relevant example might be if you see an overweight person eating at McDonalds, eating a burger and a Diet Coke. We are predisposed to think something along the lines of, "Oh that person doesn't take care of him/herself, s/he eats like crap and thinks that Diet Coke is going to save him/her," etc. etc. etc. When really it might be that this person forgot their lunch for the first time in six months and is trying to make the best of a crappy situation, or maybe they're only there because s/he is eating out with a friend they haven't seen in a long time and that's where the friend wanted to eat, whatever.

 

We also have a self-serving bias, which is kind of the opposite: we tend to attribute situational factors to ourselves when bad things happen, and internal characteristics to our successes. So when we don't lose weight, it's because we were tired and there was that party and the weather was bad and everything else, and when we do lose weight, it's from our hard work and dedication and not that we had extra time to work out this week and had someone else cooking our meals, whatever.

 

I think these kinds of things play into a lot of the societal stuff people were also talking about, and that can make it especially difficult to break free of those habits. It's a conscious choice to move away from those kinds of behaviors/thought processes in a lot of cases.

 

For me I just use occam's razor when dealing with people ... and most of life really  

[MillyP]

Personally, I don't judge other women, I judge myself.

If I see them doing more or better, I judge myself for not doing it like they do.

I'm a very shy person so I guess it is my way of feeling envy: I reflect it on myself

[Butternut]

9 hours ago, Cataleya said:

I think it's also important to remember the fundamental attribution bias, which is that human beings tend to attribute stable characteristics to other people rather than trying to understand situational factors, generally when bad things are happening. A relevant example might be if you see an overweight person eating at McDonalds, eating a burger and a Diet Coke. We are predisposed to think something along the lines of, "Oh that person doesn't take care of him/herself, s/he eats like crap and thinks that Diet Coke is going to save him/her," etc. etc. etc. When really it might be that this person forgot their lunch for the first time in six months and is trying to make the best of a crappy situation, or maybe they're only there because s/he is eating out with a friend they haven't seen in a long time and that's where the friend wanted to eat, whatever.

 

We also have a self-serving bias, which is kind of the opposite: we tend to attribute situational factors to ourselves when bad things happen, and internal characteristics to our successes. So when we don't lose weight, it's because we were tired and there was that party and the weather was bad and everything else, and when we do lose weight, it's from our hard work and dedication and not that we had extra time to work out this week and had someone else cooking our meals, whatever.

 

I think these kinds of things play into a lot of the societal stuff people were also talking about, and that can make it especially difficult to break free of those habits. It's a conscious choice to move away from those kinds of behaviors/thought processes in a lot of cases.

I totally agree, sometimes it's really hard not to be bias. You see so much of it day by day but when you get right to it, you have no idea what's going on in their life. That overweight guy eatting that cheeseburger and diet coke might be giving himself that "cheat" from eating good or had a really terrible day and that's how he copes with his problems. We all cope differently but we all need to cope with our feelings. Some people (like me) weren't taught how to do that at all and we have to find our ways, thru drugs, manipulation, food, you name it. 

 

I'm  getting off subject, my point is that quick draw to being bias is, like you said is part of being a human being happens and is apart of us, but were also are human beings that part of our own life shit storm and we control it in our own unique way in our very own situations.

[namelesswonder]

I think that whole "society and patriarchy" bit comes into play when it's not just comparison, it's comparison that makes you feel bad. It's one thing to think "She's not like me" and it's another to think "She's not like me and she looks better than me." THAT is something we learn.

 

I try to be really conscious of my internal judgements. One thing that has a had a huge impact on how I view body weight and physical ability in other people is my chronic injuries. I don't take the stairs because it HURTS to take the stairs. So fuck you very much, Mr. Felt Compelled to Comment on Lazy People Taking the Escalator, some of us need the assistance. And even if I didn't, who fucking cares? It's not any of my business why someone takes the stairs, the escalator, or the elevator. I just try to re-direct my thoughts into good will. "I hope that person is having a good day." "I hope that person is enjoying that cheeseburger." I don't care if it's their cheat day or their regular, everyday burger for dinner.

 

I've also tried to stop using qualifiers for my body state. I'm not in the "worst" shape of my life so far... I just am. I am just existing in this body. Would I like to look/feel differently? Yes, absolutely, but that's not within my realm of capability right now. So I'm choosing contentment and patience and shoving it down my own throat until it doesn't feel like effort.

[Haikoo]

I feel like I, personally, spend more time judging myself than anyone else when it comes to bodies.  For some reason, I'm able to look at other women's bodies, no matter their size, and look for the things that make them powerful and beautiful, yet when I look at myself in the mirror I can't see it. Maybe some of that is just my own insecurities, but then again--those don't just show up for no reason. Experiences create those insecurities.

.

I would have to completely disagree with the person who says society and patriarchy have nothing to do with it. Is it human nature to compare? Sure. But our society takes that to a much bigger level. I have been raised under that patriarchy my entire life. It told me women are lesser. A large portion of us have been raised with the idea that we have to please men and to do that, we must look a certain way. It's shoved at is by every photoshopped magazine cover, every American movie that stars women with ideal bodies wearing as little clothing as possible. I have felt judged by my body for my entire life. As human beings, we should be smart enough to cut back the judging and teach ourselves to be kind. 

 

I don't disagree that men are judged at times, either, but it's less physical. There are those that look for eye candy and comment on it and such. But what I see is a lot of powerful men and it doesn't really matter what they look like. They go to their functions and they do their thing while the women hanging off their arms are judged on whose designs they are wearing and how they did their hair. 

 

I'm not as articulate as I'd like to be about it, but it's all interlaced. I feel our culture's  blatant sexism can't be disregarded when it comes to questioning why we, as women, compare and judge each other. Even if it's not conscious, such things affect us.

[mdwill]

18 hours ago, Haikoo said:

I feel like I, personally, spend more time judging myself than anyone else when it comes to bodies.  For some reason, I'm able to look at other women's bodies, no matter their size, and look for the things that make them powerful and beautiful, yet when I look at myself in the mirror I can't see it. Maybe some of that is just my own insecurities, but then again--those don't just show up for no reason. Experiences create those insecurities..

I would have to completely disagree with the person who says society and patriarchy have nothing to do with it. Is it human nature to compare? Sure. But our society takes that to a much bigger level. I have been raised under that patriarchy my entire life. It told me women are lesser. A large portion of us have been raised with the idea that we have to please men and to do that, we must look a certain way. It's shoved at is by every photoshopped magazine cover, every American movie that stars women with ideal bodies wearing as little clothing as possible. I have felt judged by my body for my entire life. As human beings, we should be smart enough to cut back the judging and teach ourselves to be kind. 

I don't disagree that men are judged at times, either, but it's less physical. There are those that look for eye candy and comment on it and such. But what I see is a lot of powerful men and it doesn't really matter what they look like. They go to their functions and they do their thing while the women hanging off their arms are judged on whose designs they are wearing and how they did their hair. 

I'm not as articulate as I'd like to be about it, but it's all interlaced. I feel our culture's  blatant sexism can't be disregarded when it comes to questioning why we, as women, compare and judge each other. Even if it's not conscious, such things affect us.

 

 I said "I disagree that it's the "sexist society" or it's "patriarchy"", for myself I don't see that as the issue but if you do that is fine it's all just opinion and can't be proven.  I see the points you make about movies and magazines happening to both genders not just women.  The media has always shown an idealized version of life.  The sitcoms from the 50's were the ideal nuclear family most of the time and how many ever had that?  Today for both genders if you don't have an ideal body, not rich, and live in a nice home then you have missed the mark in life.  As for your other points, I was born in 74 and grew up in the 80's so I grew up with Ellen Ripley, Charlene McGee, and Sarah Connor (That's just from movies There are Strong women in comics and books from the 80's as well such as Molly from neuromancer), never once did I think women were lesser then men or just around for men's gratification.  I go back to occam's razor here, where the movies and magazines just want to make money and putting idealized versions of people in them makes them more money then putting average people.   If you remove body type from the celebrated ideal then it will just be replaced with something else that most can never attain such as money, education, job title, ect.  Again this is just my opinion but it's an occam's razor formed opinion.

[Rose Erick]

I think this is an issue to all of us in my opinion. we all have some insecurities at some point. 

[Butternut]

Are the insecurities that we have in ourselves the things we look for at with other women?

[Guzzi]

I have to admit that I do the exact same "judgment" thing as @Butternut. Or at least I did, I don't do it as much now that I'm more comfortable in my own body, but I certainly used to do it a LOT. 

 

I think the biggest reason behind it was my own insecurities. If I saw a pretty girl then I HAD to find a fault with her, just so that I wouldn't feel so inferior. All girls were a source of comparison, competition, envy, self loathing or maybe an opportunity to feel superior. And I still do it to a degree even now. I make judgments on people because of how they're dressed, their style, how much makeup they're wearing, though these days it's not about trying to find fault with them, it's more that I imagine them to be a certain way because of how they look. I should know by now not to judge a book by its cover but it's easier said than done. 

 

This isn't something I'm proud of, I'm quite ashamed of it in fact, but I hope everyone here will understand that I'm not condoning my actions, more like confessing to them. 

 

I was brought up by a mother who thought physical appearance was important and who would use "because you're a girl" as an explanation as to why I had to do certain things that my brother didn't (household chores, babysitting etc). She also hated me as a teenager because I was younger and slimmer than she was and was clearly competition to her. *sigh* 

 

I would love to see a world where our young girls were brought up to have higher expectations of themselves than how they look or their ability to attract a man. 

[LadyMonk]

When I actually think about other people, I definitely do this. I'm usually lost in my thoughts and am the opposite of a "people watcher." But my ex used to do this thing where he would actually rate other women on the 1-10 scale and tell me why! It was so offensive, for my sake and for theirs. I always called him out for being rude and hurtful, but ended up just leaving him.

 

Since then, I've noticed that a good handful of friends (mostly guys) do this. They are also the same people that will offer "constructive" criticism about my body. Neither case is particularly helpful or kind, so I call them out on it too, 9 times out of 10. I now have a reputation for being a sensitive feminist...but that's OK by me.

 

I'm working on changing my own thinking habits. I like your emphasis on the actions rather than looks. That's how I read, so much so that I usually couldn't tell you what my favorite characters look like without seeing a picture. It's naturally what matters more to me anyway!   

[WinterWalker]

I tend to compare and judge other women, but in a kinda weird way.  When I see someone bigger and less inexperienced than me, I think, "Awesome!  Look at them go!  Getting started can be hard but she's doing it!"

I see someone way more advanced than me and I just want to hide in a hole or go workout in a different section of the gym.  I know that no matter what level we're at, someone else wishes they were at the same place (and as C.S Lewis says, "Comparison is the thief of joy.")  But it's so hard to turn it off.

Nobody has ever said anything.  Nobody has even looked at me funny.  I KNOW it's all in my head, and it's at least partly because I'm miffed at not being where I think I should be, but how do you turn off self-criticism?  

[Elastigirl]

48 minutes ago, WinterWalker said:

I tend to compare and judge other women, but in a kinda weird way.  When I see someone bigger and less inexperienced than me, I think, "Awesome!  Look at them go!  Getting started can be hard but she's doing it!"

I see someone way more advanced than me and I just want to hide in a hole or go workout in a different section of the gym.  I know that no matter what level we're at, someone else wishes they were at the same place (and as C.S Lewis says, "Comparison is the thief of joy.")  But it's so hard to turn it off.

Nobody has ever said anything.  Nobody has even looked at me funny.  I KNOW it's all in my head, and it's at least partly because I'm miffed at not being where I think I should be, but how do you turn off self-criticism?  

Being here on the Rebellion has really helped me turn it off. Everyone is so encouraging, and when I start to slip into negativity, I try and switch gears and think of all the wonderful things people here (and my friends) have said.