BDSM in Fitness

[Twilight]

Oh hey there.

 

I'm very involved in my local community, and I know lots of people who mix kink and fitness. It's usually along the lines of helping someone achieve goals they've set, like: "You said you were going to go for a run this morning! Get out of bed!" A couple of summers ago I went to kinky camp and morning jogs can be much more interesting when you're at a camp full of like minded people. I know a couple of people who have formal health or fitness certifications, and a LOT of people who are very into fitness in general, sometimes specifically so that they can be stronger for whatever kinky activities they'd like to engage in. That's one of my motivations, too. I've also enjoyed using my powers for "evil." You wouldn't believe how easy it is to get a room full of people doing yoga once you start stretching, or (this works especially well with a group of young men) getting people to do chinups/pullups or pushups. I don't know many people in TPE (total power exchange) relationships, but there are many, many ways to incorporate this into fitness without it.

[Mr.Six]

2 hours ago, SpecialSundae said:

On the other hand, most gyms will require that their trainers can display that they have qualifications and insurance, whereas no such requirement is there for wannabe dominants.

 

 

This point illustrates the benefits of having an open social dialogue about kink generally.  Like all sexuality, BDSM activities fall on a spectrum of interests, levels of comfort, and experience.  I hold the belief that all relationships have a dominant/submissive power dynamic---even if it is minimal or varies with regards to different aspects of the relationship.  

 

An experimenting or untrained dominant could cause needless mental or physical injury, but it is important to keep in mind that these are [ideally] reciprocal relationships and good dominant should be very attentive to the submissive's needs.  James Franco produced a documentary called Kink that was on Netflix for a while that does a good job of explaining and exploring these dynamics in more detail.

 

My hope is that human culture moves towards a healthy sexual culture with affirmative consent from everyone involved.  To me, BDSM is just another color on the spectrum that will ideally align with this central tenet. 

[Geran]

13 hours ago, Guzzi said:

This is off topic from your original post but you seem very open about your lifestyle so I thought I'd ask...

 

Taking away the preconceptions surrounding BDSM (and I gotta admit I'm a little disappointed no one posted a gimp mask pic ) how do you ensure someone's emotional and mental health are looked after in a power exchange relationship?

 

Obviously I understand that in every relationship there is a power balance but when this is taken to extremes there is obviously a lot more room for the relationship to become abusive or for it to have negative effects on the submissive's mental or emotional health. 

 

How do you safeguard the person who hands control over to you?

I don't mind going off topic. I am very open about this part of my life in nearly every area other than my professional circles, and that is only because of the stigma surrounding how I conduct my personal relationships and how it would impact my career. So please do ask whatever you like.

 

The methods used to ensure mental health do vary from person to person and relationship to relationship. There are, however, some guidelines that most of us agree should always be in place:

1. Consent. This is quite possibly the most important thing in the BDSM/Power Exchange world. In a sub culture where people enjoy violence and fantasies of things being forced on them, the importance of "no means no" cannot be overstated. This applies to everything from specific sessions where "safe words" are used (a word that both parties agree on ahead of time that will, if said by either person, stop everything without question), to in depth discussions about what both parties find acceptable, and the establishment of their limits.

2. Communication. As in all relationships, communication is incredibly important. The Submissive must communicate their needs, limits, and desires. The Dominant must communicate their needs, expectations, intentions, rules, and so forth. A lot could be said on this point, so if you want to know more, ask and I will go more in depth.

3. Education. I personally feel that anyone who wants to be in a Dominant role has an inherent responsibility to educate themselves. This means, but is not limited to, study of psychology, mental health, physical health, and any other topic relevant to the needs and desires of the Submissive in question.

 

This is by no means an exhaustive list of how things are done or the safeguards in place, but it is a start. Please feel free to ask further questions, I am all for respectful discussion and debate.

[Geran]

8 hours ago, AugustaAdaByron said:

 

Again, what qualification gives you that power? There's the power exchange of course but then there's also common sense! Under common sense, what makes you qualified to be fully in charge of another person in that extent? 

If you're asking whether or not there is a some kind of BDSM qualification board that certifies people as Dominants, there isn't. There is no official qualification, just like there isn't one to be in any other kind of relationship. Is it a massive responsibility? Yes, of course it is. But then so is having children, and no one needs a license for that either. As I mentioned previously, consent is a major point. I don't force my opinion on any random Submissive I come across. The person agrees, usually in a very formal fashion, to submit to my judgement. This is done after an in depth discussion of their needs, desires, and expectations. That is where the common sense comes in. That person asks the questions to get the information they need to feel comfortable and safe giving me that power. If they don't feel comfortable and safe, they don't give me the power. Just like how you wouldn't date someone if you weren't comfortable with them.

[SpecialSundae]

23 minutes ago, Geran said:

If you're asking whether or not there is a some kind of BDSM qualification board that certifies people as Dominants, there isn't. There is no official qualification, just like there isn't one to be in any other kind of relationship. Is it a massive responsibility? Yes, of course it is. But then so is having children, and no one needs a license for that either. As I mentioned previously, consent is a major point. I don't force my opinion on any random Submissive I come across. The person agrees, usually in a very formal fashion, to submit to my judgement. This is done after an in depth discussion of their needs, desires, and expectations. That is where the common sense comes in. That person asks the questions to get the information they need to feel comfortable and safe giving me that power. If they don't feel comfortable and safe, they don't give me the power. Just like how you wouldn't date someone if you weren't comfortable with them.

I suspect a large point of the question that AAB was asking is that there are a lot of very insecure and damaged people out there who identify as submissive who could end up going along with things which are detrimental to their health because it makes the dominant they are attached to happy. 

 

If someone with limited ability to acknowledge when they are wrong takes on the role of dominant to someone with limited ability to differentiate between healthy D/s exchanges and abusive control issues then it can be potentially very dangerous.

 

Too many people saw 50 Shades of Grey and completely missed the fact that Christian Grey is not a healthy dominant but a man with control issues who wantonly ignores issues of informed consent.

[AugustaAdaByron]

1 minute ago, SpecialSundae said:

I suspect a large point of the question that AAB was asking is that there are a lot of very insecure and damaged people out there who identify as submissive who could end up going along with things which are detrimental to their health because it makes the dominant they are attached to happy. 

 

If someone with limited ability to acknowledge when they are wrong takes on the role of dominant to someone with limited ability to differentiate between healthy D/s exchanges and abusive control issues then it can be potentially very dangerous.

 

Too many people saw 50 Shades of Grey and completely missed the fact that Christian Grey is not a healthy dominant but a man with control issues who wantonly ignores issues of informed consent.

 

THANK YOU! That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm probably not explaining it correctly though.

[SpecialSundae]

 

THANK YOU! That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm probably not explaining it correctly though.

I read it that way. I'd be a little concerned with those who didn't.

[AugustaAdaByron]

24 minutes ago, SpecialSundae said:

I read it that way. I'd be a little concerned with those who didn't.

 

When it comes to personal preferences wrong and right are not clear terms.

Neither are, necessarily, the notions of a good/bad Dom or sub. Although hopefully there are some universal qualities considered good and taken into account by the participants in any D/s relationship.

 

What I've also been trying to ask Geran is how someone (anyone) can present themselves as having total authority on someone else without showing any hint of questioning if what they're doing could (even accidentally) harm the other person!

 

Edit to add: BTW I never meant if there is a literal BDSM qualification board!!! 

[Geran]

6 hours ago, SpecialSundae said:

On the other hand, most gyms will require that their trainers can display that they have qualifications and insurance, whereas no such requirement is there for wannabe dominants.

Is your goal in this thread simply to insult and inflame people? How is insulting people as "wannabe" Dominants constructive or helpful to this discussion in any way? There is no one single way to do fitness, diet, Dominance, Submission, or anything else for that matter. If you have a different viewpoint, fine. If you want to have a discussion, fine. But there really is no reason for this kind of talk. You do things your way. Fine and dandy. I don't try to make you sound wrong, regardless of how different it may be from how I or someone else does it. You don't seem very inclined to extend the same tolerance or understanding to anyone else. I didn't start this thread to argue with anyone. I started it to open healthy discourse. I must reiterate that if you have questions or concerns, there are far more respectful ways to air them.

 

If your concern is about the qualifications, or lack there of, of Dominant types controlling certain aspects of people's lives, that's a valid question and topic. Someone with no experience at all shouldn't be trying to instruct someone completely new on a complex fitness movement, fighting technique, diet change, or anything else. That CAN be dangerous, and people doing so ARE wrong, at least in my view. My issue here isn't the concerns you have, it's the aggressive and at times insulting way you express them. I can't figure out why you feel the need to address anyone this way. 

[Geran]

3 hours ago, Twilight said:

Oh hey there.

 

I'm very involved in my local community, and I know lots of people who mix kink and fitness. It's usually along the lines of helping someone achieve goals they've set, like: "You said you were going to go for a run this morning! Get out of bed!" A couple of summers ago I went to kinky camp and morning jogs can be much more interesting when you're at a camp full of like minded people. I know a couple of people who have formal health or fitness certifications, and a LOT of people who are very into fitness in general, sometimes specifically so that they can be stronger for whatever kinky activities they'd like to engage in. That's one of my motivations, too. I've also enjoyed using my powers for "evil." You wouldn't believe how easy it is to get a room full of people doing yoga once you start stretching, or (this works especially well with a group of young men) getting people to do chinups/pullups or pushups. I don't know many people in TPE (total power exchange) relationships, but there are many, many ways to incorporate this into fitness without it.

^ This. Thank you, @Twilight.

[Frost of the Gloaming]

No but there should be Augusta with only licensed sex therapist on the board, that would weed out the Christian Grey types and get them the mental health therapy they need.

[Geran]

50 minutes ago, SpecialSundae said:

I suspect a large point of the question that AAB was asking is that there are a lot of very insecure and damaged people out there who identify as submissive who could end up going along with things which are detrimental to their health because it makes the dominant they are attached to happy. 

 

If someone with limited ability to acknowledge when they are wrong takes on the role of dominant to someone with limited ability to differentiate between healthy D/s exchanges and abusive control issues then it can be potentially very dangerous.

 

Too many people saw 50 Shades of Grey and completely missed the fact that Christian Grey is not a healthy dominant but a man with control issues who wantonly ignores issues of informed consent.

I agree 100% percent. And the BDSM community gets a LOT of bad press because abusers masquerade as "Dominants" and take advantage of those insecure and damaged people. I've both seen it happen and met people coming out of it. It's a huge problem, and one that I myself work quite actively within the community to address and raise awareness of, in addition to striving to be a proper example for those on the outside to see that not every Dominant is a Christian Grey.

 

50 Shades, to me, is a giant "How NOT to do BDSM/Power Exchange" manual. Pretty much everything he does is either manipulative, abusive, or at the very least creepy. There's actually a very good video by Film Theory describing how Christian Grey uses classic Cult indoctrination techniques to subvert the female lead and manipulate her. Truly disturbing.

 

There is a responsibility on the part of Doms and Subs to be informed and communicate properly, and a certain level of responsibility the rest of the community has to observe and speak up. Just like you would say something at the gym if someone was about to snap their elbow doing a lift wrong, we would also speak up in a kink club if something seemed unsafe. 

[Geran]

45 minutes ago, AugustaAdaByron said:

 

When it comes to personal preferences wrong and right are not clear terms.

Neither are, necessarily, the notions of a good/bad Dom or sub. Although hopefully there are some universal qualities considered good and taken into account by the participants in any D/s relationship.

 

What I've also been trying to ask Geran is how someone (anyone) can present themselves as having total authority on someone else without showing any hint of questioning if what they're doing could (even accidentally) harm the other person!

 

Edit to add: BTW I never meant if there is a literal BDSM qualification board!!! 

There are of course plenty of questions that do get asked. The question of "is this safe and right for you/me/us." Is asked frequently, at least by me and those I get involved with. No matter how deeply someone submits to me, I ensure that they know they ALWAYS have the right to ask questions, and ALWAYS have the right to declare something unsafe. I hope that helps.

[SpecialSundae]

Just like you would say something at the gym if someone was about to snap their elbow doing a lift wrong, we would also speak up in a kink club if something seemed unsafe. 

Which is why a few people are challenging you.

You are coming across as someone potentially unsafe.

[Geran]

Just now, SpecialSundae said:

Which is why a few people are challenging you.

You are coming across as someone potentially unsafe.

I am open to any and all questions. There simply seemed to be an assumption that I am unqualified and inexperienced simply because I am a "newbie" on these message boards, which I don't see as a fair assessment. But by all means, ask away. Someone might find a flaw in my approach or logic, which I would be grateful for.

[SpecialSundae]

I am open to any and all questions. There simply seemed to be an assumption that I am unqualified and inexperienced simply because I am a "newbie" on these message boards, which I don't see as a fair assessment. But by all means, ask away. Someone might find a flaw in my approach or logic, which I would be grateful for.

We have questioned and you've either answered with non-answers or thrown tantrums about how we're picking on you.

[AugustaAdaByron]

@Geran Exactly what @SpecialSundae said on the above post.

In particular, when it comes to me, you have not given a clear answer to any question I've asked you! What you've been doing is give me generic and patronising answers!

 

 

[AugustaAdaByron]

36 minutes ago, Frost of the Gloaming said:

No but there should be Augusta with only licensed sex therapist on the board, that would weed out the Christian Grey types and get them the mental health therapy they need.

 

Do you mean those types? 

 

 

[navis]

I think my question is similar to Ada's -- 

 

3 hours ago, Geran said:

1. Consent. This is quite possibly the most important thing in the BDSM/Power Exchange world. In a sub culture where people enjoy violence and fantasies of things being forced on them, the importance of "no means no" cannot be overstated. This applies to everything from specific sessions where "safe words" are used (a word that both parties agree on ahead of time that will, if said by either person, stop everything without question), to in depth discussions about what both parties find acceptable, and the establishment of their limits.

2. Communication. As in all relationships, communication is incredibly important. The Submissive must communicate their needs, limits, and desires. The Dominant must communicate their needs, expectations, intentions, rules, and so forth. A lot could be said on this point, so if you want to know more, ask and I will go more in depth.

3. Education. I personally feel that anyone who wants to be in a Dominant role has an inherent responsibility to educate themselves. This means, but is not limited to, study of psychology, mental health, physical health, and any other topic relevant to the needs and desires of the Submissive in question.

 

 

This may be me not understanding the frame when entering such a relationship, but let's suppose the dominant is not quite as equipped as they thought to give certain instructions ; and by that I mean give advice or orders that are detrimental to the other's health (e.g. pushing too hard, underestimating rest / food needed...) not out of malice but simply ignorance or error.  Wouldn't consent be compromised?  The submissive person would have been mislead which should invalidate their consent. How is that handled?

 

3 hours ago, Geran said:

If you're asking whether or not there is a some kind of BDSM qualification board that certifies people as Dominants, there isn't. There is no official qualification, just like there isn't one to be in any other kind of relationship. Is it a massive responsibility? Yes, of course it is. But then so is having children, and no one needs a license for that either. As I mentioned previously, consent is a major point. I don't force my opinion on any random Submissive I come across. The person agrees, usually in a very formal fashion, to submit to my judgement. This is done after an in depth discussion of their needs, desires, and expectations. That is where the common sense comes in. That person asks the questions to get the information they need to feel comfortable and safe giving me that power. If they don't feel comfortable and safe, they don't give me the power. Just like how you wouldn't date someone if you weren't comfortable with them.

 

I think the question is what empowers you to trust you have the knowledge and resources to make these decisions on someone else's behalf?

[Geran]

1 hour ago, AugustaAdaByron said:

@Geran Exactly what @SpecialSundae said on the above post.

In particular, when it comes to me, you have not given a clear answer to any question I've asked you! What you've been doing is give me generic and patronising answers!

 

 

I have answered every question you've asked me. I don't give you specifics about how I personally conduct my relationships because that would involve sharing information about the health, mental and physical, of individuals that is private. Every relationship is different, and every person is different. There is no BDSM bible. There is no "this one way is the right way." I'm sorry if you feel like me saying that is patronizing, but that is how it is. It would be misleading and even arrogant of me to claim that what specifically works between me and one sub is how every other Dom and Sub should handle their situation. I'm not entirely certain what exactly what you want me to answer or tell you.

 

What gives me the right to have power over someone? Their consent for me to have it. That's as direct an answer as I have for you.

What qualifies me to be the authority on someone's health, fitness, diet, manner of dress, or anything else about their life? Once again, their consent. If they find my methods unsafe or don't like something about the system I propose enforcing, then they don't consent and we don't do it.

 

My goal here isn't to be obtuse or avoid inquiries. I simply can't point to one relationship, or even one example IN one relationship and say "this is how it is always done." You can't do that in any relationship, whether it be vanilla romance, parent child, or even professional.

[AugustaAdaByron]

14 minutes ago, Geran said:

I have answered every question you've asked me. I don't give you specifics about how I personally conduct my relationships because that would involve sharing information about the health, mental and physical, of individuals that is private. 

 

I'll just quote you here...

2 hours ago, Geran said:

I am open to any and all questions.

 

 

Regarding to this...

Quote

 

I'm sorry if you feel like me saying that is patronizing, but that is how it is.

 

What is patronising is that you gave me a very generic answer immediately assuming that I am in no way affiliated to a BDSM lifestyle. 

3 hours ago, Geran said:

If you're asking whether or not there is a some kind of BDSM qualification board that certifies people as Dominants, there isn't. There is no official qualification, just like there isn't one to be in any other kind of relationship. 

 

 

Coming to the next one...

Quote

What gives me the right to have power over someone? Their consent for me to have it. That's as direct an answer as I have for you.

What qualifies me to be the authority on someone's health, fitness, diet, manner of dress, or anything else about their life? Once again, their consent. If they find my methods unsafe or don't like something about the system I propose enforcing, then they don't consent and we don't do it.

 

You haven't responded to this in any solid way (putting it in bold)...

3 hours ago, SpecialSundae said:

I suspect a large point of the question that AAB was asking is that there are a lot of very insecure and damaged people out there who identify as submissive who could end up going along with things which are detrimental to their health because it makes the dominant they are attached to happy. 

 

If someone with limited ability to acknowledge when they are wrong takes on the role of dominant to someone with limited ability to differentiate between healthy D/s exchanges and abusive control issues then it can be potentially very dangerous.

 

Which is also this... (I'll put it in bold)

3 hours ago, AugustaAdaByron said:

What I've also been trying to ask Geran is how someone (anyone) can present themselves as having total authority on someone else without showing any hint of questioning if what they're doing could (even accidentally) harm the other person!

 

Edit to add that @navis also asked you 

I think the question is what empowers you to trust you have the knowledge and resources to make these decisions on

someone else's behalf?

 

Sorry, I don't know how to make it appear as a quote.
 

 

[AugustaAdaByron]

16 minutes ago, Geran said:

It would be misleading and even arrogant of me to claim that what specifically works between me and one sub is how every other Dom and Sub should handle their situation.

 

I wouldn't really ask your help on D/s relationships.

 

 

Quote

I'm not entirely certain what exactly what you want me to answer or tell you.

 

That's what makes me concerned to be honest!

[Mad Hatter]

Heey guys how about we take it down a notch? There's nothing that Geran's said that's given rise to immediate concern and how he (sorry if I got the wrong pronoun) and his consenting subs want to lead their lives and relationships is entirely up to them. But here we have a new person on the forum that wants to learn, so maybe instead of attacking him we could offer our collective (but mind you largely unqualified ) knowledge so that he can make better decisions for himself and his subs? 

[Hazard]

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Heey guys how about we take it down a notch?  There's nothing that Geran's said that's given rise to immediate concern and how he (sorry if I got the wrong pronoun) and his consenting subs want to lead their lives and relationships is entirely up to them. But here we have a new person on the forum that wants to learn, so maybe instead of attacking him we could offer our collective (but mind you largely unqualified ) knowledge so that he can make better decisions for himself and his subs? 

 

^

 

[Geran]

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Heey guys how about we take it down a notch? There's nothing that Geran's said that's given rise to immediate concern and how he (sorry if I got the wrong pronoun) and his consenting subs want to lead their lives and relationships is entirely up to them. But here we have a new person on the forum that wants to learn, so maybe instead of attacking him we could offer our collective (but mind you largely unqualified ) knowledge so that he can make better decisions for himself and his subs? 

Much appreciated. I'm certainly not here to judge anyone or tell anyone that there was is wrong. I started this thread to see if there was anyone else out there doing what I'm doing, that's all. If some people view what I do as too extreme, that's fair. I'm used to that. It's not for everyone. As the Little Gamers would say "Game on."