How to motivate my son in TKD?

[jswbach]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2598[/ATTACH]My ex-husband and I have an 8-year old boy who has been doing Tae Kwan Do for about 2 years now. He is in the Black Belt Club, and currently has his red belt. Our problem is that with his TKD, and just about everything else in his life, the boy will do only the bare minimum required of him. But he is so smart, and when he focuses on his moves and forms, he is soooo good at it! We can't help but wonder what he could do if he could find the motivation to do his very best at it, instead of the bare minimum.

He's wanted to quit a few times along the way, citing boredom and wanting more free time as reasons. But we've asked him each time to hang in there until the next belt promotion, and each time he has been excited by the new belt and committed to sticking with it.

My ex is trying to blame himself, since his personality is to always "just get by" and I'm the one who is always giving my all at everything I do. But how much is inherited or learned by example? How can we motivate him to do better? Or is motivation strictly internal, and he either has it or he doesn't? How much of this is normal for an 8-year old boy, and we'll just have to hope he grows out of it?

Fellow nerd parents, your input is appreciated!

[ETFnerd]

http://usakaratedojo.com/2012/03/29/volunteers-and-participants-for-pn-aau-karate-tournament/

maybe if you take him to a tournament, just to watch, he'll be inspired to do more, even if it's just watching what the product of hard work and dedicaion is...

this one is in Edmonds, WA in May. don't know if that's close to Seattle, but there is always something going on if you look for it...

[ETFnerd]

looks like there's a tkd tournament in Seattle this saturday...

http://www.ataonline.com/calendar/diary.asp?d=&m=view&cid=10531

[ETFnerd]

here's a video of kids at a tkd tournament if you can't get out there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdivueqfp_E?version=3&feature=player_embedded

[jswbach]

looks like there's a tkd tournament in Seattle this saturday...

http://www.ataonline.com/calendar/diary.asp?d=&m=view&cid=10531

Thanks for the links! We've tried to get him to go to sparring tournaments with his TKD group, but he refused. We keep trying, though!

[ETFnerd]

i think sometimes the tournaments are poorly run, and kids feel that they can't do what others can... they have a "i could never do that.." kind of mentality, so it's sometimes easier not to try.

what i found worked for me is to go to large tournaments, and when kids are engaged with people who are doing amazing things, they say "wow". you can just walk up to a top world champion karate competitor (most are very approachable) and just ask them if they could talk with your son about how they can became champions. Many top competitors came out of less than ideal circumstances through will and determination, and have a soft spot for kids who are trying to better themselves. i think connecting the dots for them as to how they can get to their goals is important.

he doesn't have to do sparring if he doesn't want to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRyW5NHnEEs&feature=relmfu

[Anivair]

Well, here's my perspective (as someone who has done martial arts on and off his whole life).

a) it may not be for him. If it doesn't interest him, it could be that it's just not that into it. Find something he likes more.

he may just need to focus on what he's good at. I was told a few times that my ax kicks were good when i was 13. It became my favorite thing. I was told that I was very flexible (it was true) and I was obsessed with being able to do the splits. So compliment the right stuff and help him figure out what he's really good at. that might help as well. (and obviously try that first before letting him bail on it).

[Suominatua]

I was in tae-kwon-do for a while but I ended up quitting after reaching brown belt for a while.

Ultimately, if he regrets going to it, he may be the way I approached most sports: "will go to practice, but wouldn't do a drop outside of the official times".

It wasn't that I didn't care, it's that being intelligent, I could use my approaches to make me about as good as the kids who practiced without having to put in extra effort.

I ended up finding my real passion was in Latin-Dancing, which is something I'm willing to commit to outside of the scheduled times, but I wasn't willing to do that with Tae-kwon-do, Soccer, or even Marching Band. It just wasn't worthwhile since I was intelligent enough not to have to do anything else to break even with everyone else.

I also kept up, even when I got tired, with Boy Scouts, making it to Eagle Scout, because I knew it proved I could work hard and was useful on a Resume etc...

I always approached it with the rational that it was fun, and tournaments were fun too, but it wouldn't 'really' be that useful in the future, so I dropped it.

Ultimately, approach the kid dealing with his goals on the Subject. Tell him you want him involved with a physically strenuous activity, and ask him what goals he has which would be helped by some group/club/activity. It could be Tae-Kwon-Do actually fits in those goals, or it might not.

But that's just my perspective, and I'm someone who dropped TKD, so idk. Take it as you will

[Barbarossa]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2598[/ATTACH]

He's wanted to quit a few times along the way, citing boredom and wanting more free time as reasons. But we've asked him each time to hang in there until the next belt promotion, and each time he has been excited by the new belt and committed to sticking with it.

Well, there's intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation. Maybe he's just more extrinsically motivated. Is it the fact that he has a new belt/new position in the hierarchy that causes the re-commitment or the fact that he's just done something that he can be proud of?

If it's the former, then you might give him a MA related gift here and there; a new gi for learning a new set of forms or writing a paper on the history of TKD for example. If it's the latter, then just encourage him and notice the small successes.

Or maybe TKD isn't his art. I know it's not mine. Perhaps you could take him to a few other studios that teach different styles (Shaolin/Wudang Gongfu/Tai Chi, Judo, Karate, Escrima, Krav Maga, or Muay Thai, for example).

Another thing to consider: according to some guy named Musashi Miyamoto, a martial artist should "become acquainted with every art," for what that's worth to you/your son. Perhaps give him a calligraphy set or talk about music as an outlet, too?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Perry

[jswbach]

This is all good stuff to think about, so thank you! I would definitely like to help him find something that he really digs, so that will probably take trying a bunch of stuff. So far all he likes is gaming! (Yup, the nerd-apple doesn't fall far from the tree.) But he's scary smart, so I think he gets bored easily. (His mom's a Mensan, after all!) Maybe he just needs a bigger challenge? I don't think team sports is an answer for him, as he hates group activities and is very introverted, like me. So maybe another martial art, or fine arts, or music...

[Sloth the Enduring]

I don't know anything about TKD, but in general a lot of smart kids* put in a minimal effort on things. They've never had to work for anything, so they don't know how, they find it boring, and they have the mindset that you're either smart and can do something easily or you're not and you can't do something, so they don't see the value of working for something.

There is a lot of research on the way we overpraise kids impacting this. In general you should praise the effort and the process not the outcome. "I can tell you've been practiced your head kicks," not "Great job knocking your opponent out." Also having a set list of weekly chores that he has to do no matter what to develop a work habit really helps (this is my personal opinion).

*I realize this doesn't apply to every smart kid, it's a generalization people, based on my experience as a sixth grade teacher.

[Wicked Pixie]

Are you with the ATA?

[jswbach]

Are you with the ATA?

Since I don't know what that is, probably not!

[Suominatua]

This is all good stuff to think about, so thank you! I would definitely like to help him find something that he really digs, so that will probably take trying a bunch of stuff. So far all he likes is gaming! (Yup, the nerd-apple doesn't fall far from the tree.) But he's scary smart, so I think he gets bored easily. (His mom's a Mensan, after all!) Maybe he just needs a bigger challenge? I don't think team sports is an answer for him, as he hates group activities and is very introverted, like me. So maybe another martial art, or fine arts, or music...

Hmm. Well I'm not sure what to suggest. Sports teams don't 'usually' work for the intelligent introverted kids because it doesn't require intelligence at the lower levels. When I played soccer, I could easily figure out simple strategies and I played defense (I figured if the other team never scored, they couldn't win, even if we had to tie at 0-0) so my team did good on my side of the field. However, no sport is a one man team, and things are usually more inter-dependent.

However, as I've looked more into baseball, when you start getting better, things become less and less 'chance' related. I have found baseball so much more intriguing than I use to now that I've looked into it. Both batter and pitcher, and everyone on the field. It's actually all one big mind game. Instead of the actual 'sport' being the exertion of energy, though, it's in short bursts, so to the outside it seems like a lazy sport. However, they all have to stay in shape because of those short bursts of required energy, so the team helps each-other stay fit.

[basically, I wish I had learned about baseball more when I was younger, now that I realize how mind-intensive it really is. If you want to try getting him interested, find someone who understand the decisions getting made 'within the game' and take said person and him to a game so that person can narrate all the complexities]

Lol, but otherwise, most sports aren't as much of a 'mind-game' as they are a 'reaction' based game. Baseball starts that way as well, but when you start getting better, it becomes long-term choices, rather than random reactions.

If he likes chess, you could try:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing (partial JK, though if he wanted to do it, there's nothing stopping him)

LOL, but marching band is a tough sport, that also requires endurance. It depends where you go of course (and being in the front ensemble doesn't require as much... trust me, I was in the front ensemble ^.^ ) but some marching bands like the one I was in are so strenuous our directors have to get Olympic committee fitness instructors come talk to us. Now WA doesn't have that many of that caliber, but there are other things like 'winter drum corps' which continue that into the winter season.

I'm just trying to think outside the box, because since you are on here you most likely want to have a 'strenuous' activity so your kid keeps in shape, and while fine art and music are good, they don't require body maintenance. If you can find a good crossover then you might catch him into it.

Martial arts sort of falls under this category, but it's quick thought rather than longer evaluative thought. You might be able to keep him interested in martial arts if you help him to focus on the strategies behind and within the sparring. (though, of course, he'd have to go to a tournament and spar at least once)

Once again, random ramblings ^.^ take it as you will.

[Barbarossa]

LOL, but marching band is a tough sport, that also requires endurance. It depends where you go of course (and being in the front ensemble doesn't require as much... trust me, I was in the front ensemble ^.^ ) but some marching bands like the one I was in are so strenuous our directors have to get Olympic committee fitness instructors come talk to us. Now WA doesn't have that many of that caliber, but there are other things like 'winter drum corps' which continue that into the winter season.

HAY NOW!

I was pit boss at my school for two years and marched DCi.

My pitsters were beasts by the time I was done with them. Backtalk = laps. Repeated backtalk = static holds with brake drums. It's all about how sadistic the section leader is.

Also: Chess Boxing? We...NEED...this here.

Regards,

Perry

[Suominatua]

HAY NOW!

I was pit boss at my school for two years and marched DCi.

My pitsters were beasts by the time I was done with them. Backtalk = laps. Repeated backtalk = static holds with brake drums. It's all about how sadistic the section leader is.

Also: Chess Boxing? We...NEED...this here.

Regards,

Perry

Haha... well we had a huge marching band, so we split up the drum core and the pit to two separate groups. We, the pit, did less 'running' and more technique. *bragging voice on* Seemed to work at Grand nats... 'ehem... we were 7 time state champs and 2 times national champions after all' *end bragging voice*

Lol, but I'm allowed to be hard on the pit. The fitness isn't required as much, so if they are in shape, that comes from outside the sport itself and requires a program which requires it, but the sport doesn't really.

Oh, and we never back-talked, but that's because the marching band director had a voice that could scare the pouch off a kangaroo. We did have a pit-instructor for a while whom would make us do pushups every time we yawned though...

BUT, enough hijacking the thread... lol. I just think that if you want him to work tough in marching band, the pit isn't inherently as tough, so it would depend on the school.

[jswbach]

No worries about hijacking :-) I was in marching band myself (color guard) and winterguard. He's not showing any interest in music right now, though I have a keyboard and have tried getting him into piano informally. I recently taught him some scultping techniques for a project for school, and he seemed to really enjoy that. But you're right - we want him to have some sort of physical activity he's into. His dad does cycling and mountain climbing, so we're thinking of getting him some intro to rock climbing classes, plus snow boarding for the winter. I've gotten him started on some light weight training, so hopefully he'll continue with that.

[shiggles]

Disclaimer - I'm not a parent. However I have done martial arts for a while now including helping out to teach the kids in class in competition.

Competition can be great or not so good for kids. A lot of the time they are too focused on the winning aspect so if they lose they can get quite discouraged and no longer want to train. And if they win they can think they won too easily and think 'well this training is easy, I don't have to work at all, or even train at all'.

Now your son is very young and only been training for 2 years and in the 'black belt club'. You can have a search around the net for opinions on martial arts schools that have black belt clubs, black belts for kids, letting kids play with swords and the like. But let me tell you now - the opiniong of them are generally quite unfavourable. Basically speaking in a martial arts sense, a child that young should not really become a black belt due to a number of things, but in particular lack of maturity. Furthermore if he has only been training for 2 years, he should be at least several years away from achieving a black belt. Basically these sort of things are typically done by schools who like your money much more than they like the thought of training you (or your children) properly.

Now still he is only a kid, and you obviously want him to be be motivated to try his best. If he was really enjoying things and had a lot of motivation, the above points to me would not matter and long as he was having fun and using up a bit of energy. But it sounds like he isn't having all that much fun. So you can make him a deal. Say he isn't allowed to have his free time, but if he wants you can let him take up another sport in place of TKD. This may be another martial art or another sport such as football or whatever. And yes, it might take a few attempts to find something he really likes. But put the ball in his court. If he can't think of anything else he might want to try doing instead, then he has to stick with it and do his best. Because otherwise if he did quite, realistically he's probably just going to be at home watching TV or something and being antisocial instead.

[Deanna]

Maybe he just doesn't like it. As a kid I was forced by my mother to take piano lessons. While I liked tinkering on the piano, I hated the lessons. Even when I told her it wasn't for me and stopped practicing she still sent me. It was a giant waste of money for her and stressful for me as a kid.

Ask him if there's something that interests him. If it's not something "cool" don't judge. If he wants to weave baskets, let him do it. I always wanted to play violin, or play hockey with the boys.

[Tom Kenobi]

There has been some great input here, from ETF and Anivair for instance. I REALLY have to agree with the comment below from shiggles.

Now your son is very young and only been training for 2 years and in the 'black belt club'. You can have a search around the net for opinions on martial arts schools that have black belt clubs, black belts for kids, letting kids play with swords and the like. But let me tell you now - the opinion of them are generally quite unfavourable. Basically speaking in a martial arts sense, a child that young should not really become a black belt due to a number of things, but in particular lack of maturity. Furthermore if he has only been training for 2 years, he should be at least several years away from achieving a black belt. Basically these sort of things are typically done by schools who like your money much more than they like the thought of training you (or your children) properly.

There could be another reason why your son really isn't trying: the instructor. To add on to what Shiggles said, and as a qualifier, you can check my bio for my martial arts & parenting background - there is a term for kids who are in these clubs, and even older ones too: money belts. Parents or students pay, and with very minimal work and care from the instructor: they get the belt. Sometimes you can blatantly see this happening with contracts in martial art classes, you pay x amount for 2 - 3 yrs and your kid will be black belt. If this is the case, it is not your fault, its the instructor's lack of integrity. Of course, its not your fault regardless of whether your son is trying or not. If the instructor is legit, the instructor will keep him back if he is just going through the motions.

To qualify this statement, I started in TKD when I was 6. It took me six years to get to red-belt black stripe, a technical black belt candidate. I didn't test for black until I was 16...ANOTHER four years later. I had trained ten years before getting 1st degree. During that 10year span I had two instructors, both of them from the same system and both of them knew each other. As I look back now, as a 32yr old man who has cross trained in other arts, gotten wiser, etc - I can see how I should have stayed longer at the 1st Gup(red belt black stripe) to prepare for 1st degree.

Hope that helped.

[Archer]

It's quite possible your kid can detect the fake-ness of the program. If a kid sees another being rewarded for minimal effort, it's contagious.

I pulled my kid out of the ATA TKD program in a hurry after seeing they are a machine based on profits, not on results. I saw a kid balling his eyes out during his purple belt test, couldn't remember half the routine, and he had to leave the floor twice to get hugs- and he passed. We went to a tournament and everyone who showed up got a gold medal. Most TKD/Karate programs are like this.

A "Black Belt" should mean an adult who devoted their life to be a true master of a martial art, not a 12-year-old kid that rehearsed some steps and lightly kicked a plastic break-away board. When my daughter could do more pushups than all the boys (including the obese black-belt instructor) I had enough. I found a serious mixed-martial arts (mainly Jiujitsu grappling) gym that didn't charge by-the-belt or have testing fees every 3 months, and she actually learns real-world self-defense techniques. They only have 4 belt colors, and it might be 3-4 years between each. The focus is on results, not on ribbons and patches- and the kids get really fired up doing it too.