More Weight Less Reps or Less Weight and More Reps?

[Wolfwood]

I've been searching far and wide for hours (Google'd it for about 20 minutes) and I can't find a definitive answer, I've seen dozens of articles that contradict each other, and on one site, I saw two different articles on the same subject contradict each other, which was funny, but not very helpful.

So, if anyone in the world knows the answer to my question, they will be here.

I want to build lean, strong muscles that have actual value instead of the huge muscles that freak me out sometimes.

So, to obtain this, would I have to use more weight with Less reps, or Less weight with more reps?

The goal is lean and strong, not bulky and veiny.

Or, will just doing body weight exercises fulfill my goal with no additional weights? I can't exactly afford a bunch o' weights right now, and space is rather limited, since if I sneeze on one end of my workout area, I smack the wall on the other side.

[Loren Wade]

Lots of weight, few reps. Builds lean, strong, muscle. Bodyweight exercises are fine. There's tons of progressions from easy to hard.

[spezzy]

I've been searching far and wide for hours (Google'd it for about 20 minutes) and I can't find a definitive answer, I've seen dozens of articles that contradict each other, and on one site, I saw two different articles on the same subject contradict each other, which was funny, but not very helpful.

So, if anyone in the world knows the answer to my question, they will be here.

I want to build lean, strong muscles that have actual value instead of the huge muscles that freak me out sometimes.

So, to obtain this, would I have to use more weight with Less reps, or Less weight with more reps?

The goal is lean and strong, not bulky and veiny.

Or, will just doing body weight exercises fulfill my goal with no additional weights? I can't exactly afford a bunch o' weights right now, and space is rather limited, since if I sneeze on one end of my workout area, I smack the wall on the other side.

All muscles are lean.

Getting "bulky and veiny" is very hard. You would have to work extremely hard to get like that and eat a shitton.

1-6 reps for 3-6 sets. (5x5 is a good rep scheme)

You can do bodyweight exercises too, but again there, less reps, heavier weight (aka harder movements)

[Loren Wade]

All muscles are lean.

Getting "bulky and veiny" is very hard. You would have to work extremely hard to get like that and eat a shitton.

1-6 reps for 3-6 sets. (5x5 is a good rep scheme)

You can do bodyweight exercises too, but again there, less reps, heavier weight (aka harder movements)

Yep. This. Spezzy knows what she's talking about.

[Wolfwood]

So, essentially, if I don't eat enough food to feed an entire country for 24 hours a day, I'll still be able to scratch my face after all is said and done?

Sounds good to me!

[Pat G]

You should still be able to scratch your face, a supple lifter is a good lifter.

You'd be surprised how mobile you need to be to lift heavy things....

[Corbab]

Right, right, and right. Picking up very heavy things a few times (less than six) triggers myofibril hypertrophy, which leads to stronger muscles. Picking up less heavy things for more reps (8-12) triggers sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is when you can get the bigger muscles. Things like creatine increase water storage in the muscles, which makes them look bigger (until you stop taking it). You won't get to veiny and huge unless you want to.

[Waldo]

You don't accidentally get too big. If you aren't genetically predisposed to be big and bulky, it extremely difficult to get that way, requiring many years of focused weight training effort and a bulking diet, and even then it may not be enough; performance enhancing drug supplimentation (the kind that will get you suspended from athletic competition) may be necessary. Virtually nobody thinks that their muscles are too big, and they disappear pretty quick if you don't eat to support them. Getting big and bulky is absolutely nothing to worry about. Being all veiny has nothing to do with muscle size, it is a byproduct of BF%.

[aj_rock]

Every lifting scheme has its own time and place. Beginners are better served by lower rep ranges, but doing higher reps once in a while can help too.

[Wolfwood]

Well, for now, I'm going to take it slow, see what works and what doesn't.

[Luthorcrow]

Right, right, and right. Picking up very heavy things a few times (less than six) triggers myofibril hypertrophy, which leads to stronger muscles. Picking up less heavy things for more reps (8-12) triggers sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is when you can get the bigger muscles. Things like creatine increase water storage in the muscles, which makes them look bigger (until you stop taking it). You won't get to veiny and huge unless you want to.

Nice recap. You can really make it simple and break down to:

1) 1-5 reps = pure strength

2) 8-12 reps = muscle size

3) 12-20 = muscular endurance

If training for general strength (none specialized like power lifting, Olympic lifting, etc) you probably do a mix of the above at some point depending your goals.

Don't worry about becoming a freakish hulk. Even you wanted to and put years of serious effort in, in all likelihood, it is not going to happen.

[Knightwatch]

You gotta understand, saying "I wanna get strong and lean muscles but not be a massive bodybuilder", is kinda akin to walking up to a pro basketball coach and saying "I want you to teach me how to shoot some hoops, but for the love of God, man, don't make me an Olympian or anything".

The thing is, even if you were striving for that goal, statistically speaking you'd be unlikely to achieve it.

The question is, are you comfortable with ANY lean mass gain at all?

[Loren Wade]

You gotta understand, saying "I wanna get strong and lean muscles but not be a massive bodybuilder", is kinda akin to walking up to a pro basketball coach and saying "I want you to teach me how to shoot some hoops, but for the love of God, man, don't make me an Olympian or anything".

The thing is, even if you were striving for that goal, statistically speaking you'd be unlikely to achieve it.

The question is, are you comfortable with ANY lean mass gain at all?

You make a great point Knightwatch. However, even then, it's still really hard to become massive. For example, Graham Holmberg, a CrossFit champ. He's extremely strong, but still super lean. I see lean, strong muscles but hardly any bulk at all. I realize CrossFit isn't the same, but my point is you can still lift heavy, get lean, and be extremely strong. I'm not disagreeing with you either, Knightwatch. Just also making a point.

[Knightwatch]

Think we're making the same point.

There are thousands of folks in gyms every day whu are actually trying their damnest to add a ton of mass in huge and veiny fashion, and failing at the task because they lack the time, training experience, programming, nutrition, and "supplementation" that are typically required to attain the image of their dreams (or, in this case, nightmare). As it's been said, it sure as hell doesn't happen accidentally, just as you don't accidentally become an Olympian ballplayer.

Or, as Ripptoe put it in Ripptoian fashion when presented with this same concern, that of building too-big muscles, "If it were that easy, I would have them".

[spezzy]

I see lean, strong muscles but hardly any bulk at all.

I'm not sure you were understanding what KW was saying.

People who want to get huge have a really hard time getting huge, and have to eat an insane amount and train a specific way to get there.

And again, all muscle is lean. You see lean muscles because there's no such thing as a fat muscle.

[Loren Wade]

Fantastic, totally agree! Glad we're in agreement.

[Wolfwood]

I know it's odd for people to freak out about that, but when I started this, I never plan on stopping, and It may just be the fact that when I pass by the bodybuilding magazines at the grocery mart I kind of assumed that would "Just Happen" after years of going at it.

But learning about what it takes to get that way really makes me appreciate it just a bit more.

But seriously, am I the only one who just thinks the guys on the magazine are about to pop? Like, if you walk up to them and poke them with a needle, they'll deflate like in the cartoons?

[aj_rock]

I'm not sure you were understanding what KW was saying.

People who want to get huge have a really hard time getting huge, and have to eat an insane amount and train a specific way to get there.

And again, all muscle is lean. You see lean muscles because there's no such thing as a fat muscle.

Sorry to get technical on the spezzinator, but you *can* have fat muscles. Intra-muscular triglycerides do exist. That's why, when you look at someone severely overweight, their lean muscle circumference is still larger than most people's (as in, yes their arms are bigger due to subcutaneous fat, but theres fat IN the muscle too that increases apparent muscle size), despite usually having much less strength.

Hell, intra-muscular fat is what makes steak so yummy...

Anyway, not really applicable if you're looking at someone who is generally considered lean. When you're fat, you'll have fat muscles.

Technically

[Luthorcrow]

I know it's odd for people to freak out about that, but when I started this, I never plan on stopping, and It may just be the fact that when I pass by the bodybuilding magazines at the grocery mart I kind of assumed that would "Just Happen" after years of going at it.

But learning about what it takes to get that way really makes me appreciate it just a bit more.

But seriously, am I the only one who just thinks the guys on the magazine are about to pop? Like, if you walk up to them and poke them with a needle, they'll deflate like in the cartoons?

If you are talking about body building magazines you are talking about people that live a very extreme life style and in many cases are juicing. The fact is those guys are not as strong as they look. A power lifter of the same weight will out lift them by a wide margin in most cases.

[Loren Wade]

I'm not sure you were understanding what KW was saying.

People who want to get huge have a really hard time getting huge, and have to eat an insane amount and train a specific way to get there.

And again, all muscle is lean. You see lean muscles because there's no such thing as a fat muscle.

Yeah, I realize we were making the same point. As I said in my post I was just making a point also. I even said I wasn't disagreeing with him. So, yeah, I agree with you.