I think I hit a wall.

[Guest Snake McClain]

So lately I've noticed that my body isn't really changing anymore. No more fat is being lost. No more muscle is being gained. My numbers are going up slightly but just really slightly. I'm seeing some improvement I guess but over the past say...2 months nothing has really happened. My routine is pretty viscious so I don't think it's that. I'm guessing it's maybe how I'm eating...maybe not enough protein? I dunno...I'm just really....I really just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. I eat as much as I can and on days I don't eat as much as I can I eat as much as I can afford. i stay away from carbs whenever possible (i know you'll say it is possible to always stay away yeah yeah). but my diet consists of mostly eggs, meat, bananas and vegetables. rarely any bread. oh and some peanut butter. yeah that too. so...what? I mean what the heck is wrong here?

specifically:

chest: is still way underdeveloped. I've gained on average 10lbs on my bench per month for 5 months. but it's still way low. and if you look at my chest you can tell it's wimpy.

Core strength: has not really improved from doing the big lifts. DL and squat work has not once made me feel anything in my core at all. I did the rowing machine twice and felt it both times. suggestions? Is it possible that my core is just prepared for a bigger load than what i was able to squat or deadlift so it isn't putting the stress on my abs as it would need to be fatigued?? I have no idea.

body fat: no changes in body fat really. maybe I've lost a single % since starting. Maybe. I've gained weight (about 7lbs) but no change to body fat from the two times I've measured it. Again. I've changed the way I eat as a whole. I need abs to show up by october 27th. This is my deadline. So what? more cardio? hit the rowing machine longer and harder everytime i'm in the gym?

So yeah that's that. I guess you guys can help maybe. maybe this should be in the rebel base army camp and not the off topic library. I dunno. I'm just at this point where I'm very frustrated and don't know what there is to do.

[Bean]

Hey Snake

I am pretty new to all this and so others will probably have much more valuable advice.

I am busy working my way through Mark Rippetoes Practical Programming and it immediately struck me that maybe you are at risk of overtraining and that is why you are not seeing improvements.

Mark has lots of suggestions for the intermediate trainer (which he says is where most people spend the majority of their time) in terms of programming weekly and doing things like Dynamic Effort sets, mixing the training up with heavy, medium and light days etc. In this way, you will still see steady gains, but at a much slower pace than as a novice doing starting strength where you go up every session.

Although I have only been doing free weights for around 4 months, I did gymnastics for many years and so my muscle memory was pretty good and I have seen pretty awesome gains. As a result, I think I am nearing that intermediate phase already and am finding a need to change my programme. I tried a dynamic effort set this morning after reading about it and it really kicked my butt. Not sure about the longer term benefits yet (obviously) but I am trusting that Mark is right.

Hope you find a good solution.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Hey Snake

I am pretty new to all this and so others will probably have much more valuable advice.

I am busy working my way through Mark Rippetoes Practical Programming and it immediately struck me that maybe you are at risk of overtraining and that is why you are not seeing improvements.

Mark has lots of suggestions for the intermediate trainer (which he says is where most people spend the majority of their time) in terms of programming weekly and doing things like Dynamic Effort sets, mixing the training up with heavy, medium and light days etc. In this way, you will still see steady gains, but at a much slower pace than as a novice doing starting strength where you go up every session.

Although I have only been doing free weights for around 4 months, I did gymnastics for many years and so my muscle memory was pretty good and I have seen pretty awesome gains. As a result, I think I am nearing that intermediate phase already and am finding a need to change my programme. I tried a dynamic effort set this morning after reading about it and it really kicked my butt. Not sure about the longer term benefits yet (obviously) but I am trusting that Mark is right.

Hope you find a good solution.

that sounds intereting. can you give me an example of a dynamic set? or i'll google. i have recently swapped to a reverse pyramid. I'd be surprised if overtraining was an issue as I have recently switched to a day less a week in the gym. but it could still be the case I guess.

[Bean]

DE was popularised as part of the Westside method.

The basic idea is to generate the force quickly and explosively, so you take a lighter weight (50-75% of 1RM) and push the bar as fast as possible. One of the more common methods is to do about 10 sets of 2 or 3 reps with a short, controlled rest between sets, moving the bar as quickly as possible between each load. The lifter must do each repetition with maximum effort and try and do each set faster than the previous one.

You don't increase the weight from week to week, but rather the time it takes to complete the set.

[Guest Snake McClain]

ive never heard of anything like this in my life. that is so weird.

[Bean]

I promise - it is all there in his book!

[161803398874989]

Carbs. Eat them. It's incredibly easy to get plenty of calories in carb form down, which is why people usually get fat. Think spaghetti, macaroni, tagliatelle and the like. Also, more fat.

If you want abs, you have to diet down. You can't expect to build muscle and burn fat at the same time at your level, IMO.

Bulk, then cut.

I don't really have that much knowledge on barbell training, but it sounds like you're not benching with your pecs. Yes, that's a thing: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/benching-with-the-pecs.html

[Loren Wade]

You need a ladder.

[Guest Snake McClain]

You need a ladder.

thanks troll. lol

[joeyb]

ive never heard of anything like this in my life. that is so weird.

It sounds like the barbell equivalent of plyometrics. I've seen studies that plyometrics mixed in with regular isotonic exercises show larger improvements in athletes over athletes that just did one or the other. The more burst you use, the more fast twitch fibers you are going to use, which is what is going to get you larger muscles, so it makes sense.

[aj_rock]

As to overtraining: if you were, you'd know it.

As to chest: what 1618 said. You might not be benching properly, and until you learn how to bench properly, throw in some flyes.

As to core strength: if your core wasn't engaged, you'd fall over and/or buckle and/or suffer sever dislocation of some portion of your back. It's being engaged, but not for great lengths of time. It won't feel like a plank or a set of sit-ups. But if you perform the squat or deadlift properly, and it's heavy, congratulations, you have a strong core

As to body fat: might be time to do some counting my friend. Calorie counting is the #1 troubleshooter in my books. I'd be very surprised though, if you could eat ad libitum and lose fat, especially on an aggressive workout plan.

[Guest Snake McClain]

As to overtraining: if you were, you'd know it.

As to chest: what 1618 said. You might not be benching properly, and until you learn how to bench properly, throw in some flyes.

As to core strength: if your core wasn't engaged, you'd fall over and/or buckle and/or suffer sever dislocation of some portion of your back. It's being engaged, but not for great lengths of time. It won't feel like a plank or a set of sit-ups. But if you perform the squat or deadlift properly, and it's heavy, congratulations, you have a strong core

As to body fat: might be time to do some counting my friend. Calorie counting is the #1 troubleshooter in my books. I'd be very surprised though, if you could eat ad libitum and lose fat, especially on an aggressive workout plan.

well i do try to do "complexes" once a week with the barbell to mix up what i'm doing at lighter weight and to really burn me.

I'm reading that article about proper bench. quite possible that is the issue. i do feel my pecs engaged when i bench though...so there is that. still doesn't mean it's right though. Will investigate further.

I know what you mean about the core issue and you're right. It has to be being used. just not fatigued i guess.

I don't mind counting calories. it's not tough anymore and i have an app for it (feel so stupid saying that). but I think it's a matter of carbs. i simply eat too many maybe. i dunno. whatever. I'm at a point where i feel like what i want isn't feasible given the resources I have. Money is defnitely an issue. So...yeah anyway. Maybe i'll just buy steroids...oh yeah but that costs money (and was also a joke).

[Luthorcrow]

I don't think any of us can given you any real advice regarding gaining muscle or losing body fat without seeing a food diary. Are you keeping one now? If not I suggest you start. I personally find the online ones easier to do than a paper log. I use MFP (My Personal Fitness Pal) but there are plenty of other free ones that are easy to use in a browser or on your smart phone.

Also get yourself a good digital scale, weigh everything, plan and pack your own food. You can get a good one for about $20 on Amazon. Make sure to get one that will do grams to the .1.

You have to eliminate the variables and gather hard data or we will never know which parameter needs to be adjusted to get the desired result.

Keep in mind everyone is different and it will take some experimentation but without data, we go nothing to go on.

[Ryan Sannar]

Interval sprints plus deadlift plus IF for the abs.

Just my $0.02

[Corbab]

I'm with Ryan on the interval sprints (especially on the rower). My workouts have been exclusively rowing for about a month, and the sprint workouts always leave me the most drained. As far as abs, calorie counting will probably get you there, but I've gotten closer recently just with a little awareness. I logged my food for two days, and just cut the "snacks" that were adding around 200-300 calories a pop. I kinda put the abs aside for now, as I've gotten progressively more tired and I have a race coming up, but I was having great results with that while I did it.

[Pat G]

Actually, Intermitent Fasting, seems to do what you want to be done Mac. Drop the bodyfat percentage whilst keeping most if not all your muscle mass.

[aj_rock]

Maybe i'll just buy steroids...oh yeah but that costs money (and was also a joke).

Might be cheaper than trying to stuff your face

I think I mentioned this before, but the program you're on isn't really optimized for either mass gain or fat loss. IIRC, you're basically in 'in-season' training in terms of wrestling, and in-season is the worst possible time of an athlete's cycle to attempt body recomposition.

Remember, your body defends it's body weight, so if you end up in a negative calorie balance, your body will find ways to cut corners. SNS output can vary hugely depending on caloric balances, and it means the difference between a pep in your step / enthusiastic outlook and not wanting to move at all while not training / getting bummed out and depressed.

So, yeah, your entire state of mind could even be explained by lower SNS output. SNS being sympathetic Nervous System, or what controls how energetic you 'feel'. Substances like caffeine amphetines (first example legal, second one not) jump start the SNS, which is why they make you so energetic, and why they end up being popular weight loss supplements.

Just trying to give you a frame of reference. 15% on down in body fat, is an uphill struggle for a lot of guys.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Might be cheaper than trying to stuff your face

I think I mentioned this before, but the program you're on isn't really optimized for either mass gain or fat loss. IIRC, you're basically in 'in-season' training in terms of wrestling, and in-season is the worst possible time of an athlete's cycle to attempt body recomposition.

Remember, your body defends it's body weight, so if you end up in a negative calorie balance, your body will find ways to cut corners. SNS output can vary hugely depending on caloric balances, and it means the difference between a pep in your step / enthusiastic outlook and not wanting to move at all while not training / getting bummed out and depressed.

So, yeah, your entire state of mind could even be explained by lower SNS output. SNS being sympathetic Nervous System, or what controls how energetic you 'feel'. Substances like caffeine amphetines (first example legal, second one not) jump start the SNS, which is why they make you so energetic, and why they end up being popular weight loss supplements.

Just trying to give you a frame of reference. 15% on down in body fat, is an uphill struggle for a lot of guys.

well that's a bummer.

I'm actuaclly thinking about some things...and I've decided that I'm not going to worry about dropping body fat. just gain muscle. Just focus purely on strength gaining and muscle mass. I can still look scary. Bikers look scary. I could probably pull that off.

Curious what do you mean by "in-season training"? You're the only person i've heard say this. and i think that with wrestling it is always in season. matches will be every week forever until i decide to stop.

[aj_rock]

That's highly unusual.

Basically, most competitive athletes partake in periodized training, with the goal being to perform optimally during the season/meet/whatever you compete in. For example, I play rugby, with playoffs in late summer. So I wanna maintain my highest level of performance through the season into the finals. Therefore, all my training is geared towards achieving this.

As such, you don't exercise the same way gearing up for pre-season the same way you would immediately after the end of playoffs. For most sports, it goes all-round preparation, followed by power development, followed by cardiovascular fitness, then sport specific skills, then sport performance maintanence.

So your all-round prep is when you take care of any remaining physiological detriments, whether that's injuries, strength levels, mass, or body composition (mass is seperate because some sports require participants to maintain a high mass regardless of actual strength, although strength is always a plus). Assuming a 3-4 month season, that leaves you with 4-5 months to focus on these areas before having to knuckle down and build power and cardio fitness. Obviously the length, overlap, and level of development change with the sport.

Regardless, if you are currently competiting in matches, you are 'in-season', which means your top priority should be maintanence of performance. No NFL player is going for PRs or shedding body fat in the middle of the season; no MMA fighter is learning techniques the night before a fight. Maintanence of performance is key.

Mind you, from the sound of your training schedule, at least what your training partners are having you do, you're tailing out cardio fitness and heading into sport specific skill development. From what you are trying to do on your own, you're aiming for general prep, strength, power, cardio, and sport trianing all at the same time. Which will probably lead you to spinning your wheels in a lot of the aspects. You can't concentrate on technique if you're sore (from strength training), fatigued (from cardio/power), and drained (from eating under your calorie balance).

You *can* perform micro-cycles, which is what you see in MMA fighting. You still see the same phases, but more time condensed. Say you have two months between bouts. You have a two weeks to recover/heal/strength train. Replace strength with losing fat if their trying to drop category. Then two weeks of power. Two of cardio. Two *fight* specific weeks. Technique is performed in sprinkles all around/is easy to incorporate into power and cardio training. But the guy won't be benching PR's the day after bag work the day after starving himself.

I guess last point is that I've never seen an athlete be in-season always. The sport might always continue, but specific athletes will drop off the face of the planet for a few months before returning to the circuit.

[Guest Snake McClain]

That's highly unusual.

Basically, most competitive athletes partake in periodized training, with the goal being to perform optimally during the season/meet/whatever you compete in. For example, I play rugby, with playoffs in late summer. So I wanna maintain my highest level of performance through the season into the finals. Therefore, all my training is geared towards achieving this.

As such, you don't exercise the same way gearing up for pre-season the same way you would immediately after the end of playoffs. For most sports, it goes all-round preparation, followed by power development, followed by cardiovascular fitness, then sport specific skills, then sport performance maintanence.

So your all-round prep is when you take care of any remaining physiological detriments, whether that's injuries, strength levels, mass, or body composition (mass is seperate because some sports require participants to maintain a high mass regardless of actual strength, although strength is always a plus). Assuming a 3-4 month season, that leaves you with 4-5 months to focus on these areas before having to knuckle down and build power and cardio fitness. Obviously the length, overlap, and level of development change with the sport.

Regardless, if you are currently competiting in matches, you are 'in-season', which means your top priority should be maintanence of performance. No NFL player is going for PRs or shedding body fat in the middle of the season; no MMA fighter is learning techniques the night before a fight. Maintanence of performance is key.

Mind you, from the sound of your training schedule, at least what your training partners are having you do, you're tailing out cardio fitness and heading into sport specific skill development. From what you are trying to do on your own, you're aiming for general prep, strength, power, cardio, and sport trianing all at the same time. Which will probably lead you to spinning your wheels in a lot of the aspects. You can't concentrate on technique if you're sore (from strength training), fatigued (from cardio/power), and drained (from eating under your calorie balance).

You *can* perform micro-cycles, which is what you see in MMA fighting. You still see the same phases, but more time condensed. Say you have two months between bouts. You have a two weeks to recover/heal/strength train. Replace strength with losing fat if their trying to drop category. Then two weeks of power. Two of cardio. Two *fight* specific weeks. Technique is performed in sprinkles all around/is easy to incorporate into power and cardio training. But the guy won't be benching PR's the day after bag work the day after starving himself.

I guess last point is that I've never seen an athlete be in-season always. The sport might always continue, but specific athletes will drop off the face of the planet for a few months before returning to the circuit.

HAHAHHAHA okay. I see the problem here bub. You think i'm doing this http://departments.kings.edu/athletics/men/wrestling/recap/Morgan_ncaa_champ.jpg

when in reality i am doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkOFxcLgw0s

And how you missed that is beyond me. But that is okay. however everything you just said is really informative and i actually enjoyed the read. And it is absolutely true. But i have to find a way to increasse strength and cardio at different aspects while trying to have multiple matches a week. until i decide i am no longer capable of continuing. This isn't "legit" wrestling.