level 1 newbie to NF - intermediate fitness

[metaphysician]

greetings everybody! i'm Scott, a newbie here to Nerd Fitness. i am a relatively fit 56 yr old computer nerd (also musician and general knowledge nerd) working remotely - 5' 5" 150-ish lbs. i have exercise bands, adjustable dumbbells, a bench and a few free weights and barbells. i work out 2-3 times a week, have pretty strong core, eat fairly healthy, but i joined the forum to get advice on my lack of overall fitness - specifically the posterior chain/legs. i mainly work upper body and usually do 3 to 4 sets of 3 to 4 exercises and i do start out by jogging in place for 5 minutes, and occasionally working on 1 min door sits or bodyweight squats, BUT if i try to throw in leg exercises with weights like lunges (even reverse) or squats with dumbbells the knees just go to shit within a very short time and i have to back off again.

 

i am fairly certain that my staying in a chair most of the day isn't helping the situation. awhile back i tried daily jogging with the wife but had to back off, again due to the knees. being a research nerd i found out about PFPS (i think that's the right acronym), and i looked up therapy exercises i could do to rehab the knees. i'd say i don't have a severe case based on doing the exercises, and i have not done them very much TBH. previously i had a couple of teaching gigs that required a commute with limited amounts of walking and climbing stairs and that combined with the jogging/door sits was enough to keep leg fitness at a nominal level, but i'm moving into fully remote work which means i won't get that limited exercise on the commute.

 

so i would like to know if anyone's been in the situation of sitting too long/too much and how to work legs and posterior chain back into the exercise routine when there's a heavy element of leg circulation being restricted by sitting. so anything to mitigate or reverse the damage in order to train the lower half without injury. i don't really have a huge amount of fitness goals other than just being more well rounded with overall body fitness and at my age going heavy isn't a great idea for the joints, but i'm not against building muscle and/or looking more defined.

anyway i hope this is enough information and any advice for training or exercises to try is vastly appreciated! i'm not against 1 on 1 consultations from PT folks either but i am a pretty good self learner. thanks in advance!
 

[Elastigirl]

Welcome!  I have a few suggestions that may help. To start with, use a chair for balance when you do the squats and lunges. That will protect your knees some while you build strength.  Also, at 58 , I'm a big advocate for floor sitting. When I get up in the morning., I try and sit on the floor a few minutes while I read , and then in the evening while I watch TV.   You could do it with straight legs, or on a stool if you need to. We most often sit with our legs in the 90 degree position, that our poor knees have no idea what to do when we bend them.  For stretches I do modified pigeon pose, and just a bunch of knee circles.

[Artemis Prime]

Hello, Scott, welcome to Nerd Fitness! Elastigirl gave you some great advice. On top of that, I'd recommend looking for ways to be less sedentary through your workday. A standing desk often helps, but if that's not an option for you at the moment, you could always pace whenever you're on the phone, set a timer to take a break and move around for a little while, even squat on the floor for a bit if you're looking at papers or have a laptop you can work from. You could also try a ball chair.

 

As for exercise, deadlifts are great for the posterior chain. Any pulling exercise will help, but deadlift is king. When it comes to knees, please note that I am not a doctor, just sharing my own experience with you. My knees do not tolerate a high volume of squats. How many bodyweight squats can you do, and about how many weighted reps does it take to upset your knees? I've found that for me, making my squats heavier and doing fewer of them are easier on my knees that higher reps at lower loads. It may not be the same for you, but that might be something that is worth looking into.

[metaphysician]

thanks very much for the replies Artemis and Elastigirl! lots of excellent suggestions there, especially researching/quantifying the point at which the knees start to complain which is a great idea. i did not keep super close track but bodyweight exercises didn't put undue stress on the knees as i recall - it was adding the weights that caused the discomfort. as for the count of bodyweight squats i can usually do well over 25 though i haven't done them recently. i do take naps in my office so that does stretch the body out but the floor sitting i haven't done much of. i do have a standing desk attachment that can be manually lifted, but have not tried it since my 4K TV/monitor arrived - i think it might be too heavy to lift now

one of the issues i found frustrating when working out on legs and adding weights for exercises like goblet squats, sumo squats is that the move would seem to go fine, with no pain or discomfort and feeling like i got a decent pump, only to find the next day i inflamed/aggravated the knees and have to stay off of them a few more days. it gets discouraging. i think i'm definitely in the lower reps being easier on the joints than higher reps but it seems to be a delicate balance even so. what sucks is that the leg muscle is itself fairly strong but the connectors (tendons, ligaments, joints) are very temperamental. 

anyway it's all a process of figuring out what works but i'm grateful for your replies and suggestions!

 

scott

[Elastigirl]

38 minutes ago, metaphysician said:

one of the issues i found frustrating when working out on legs and adding weights for exercises like goblet squats, sumo squats is that the move would seem to go fine, with no pain or discomfort and feeling like i got a decent pump, only to find the next day i inflamed/aggravated the knees and have to stay off of them a few more days. it gets dis

Hate that when it happens. I have that happen with my hips. Going lighter and really focusing on form will help give the tendons, and ligaments time to catch up

[ViperN7]

Hi and welcome! Best of luck figuring this out. I agree with Elastigirl's and Artemis Prime's suggestions. I'll add a few more thoughts. Disclaimer: This is not medical advice. If you think that your knees are bad enough that you need professional help, please see a medical professional. 

You seem to have a bit of a Catch-22 situation going on with your legs, where activities that are expected to strengthen them aggravate your knees. Some possibilities to  consider are low or no-impact exercise to strengthen your legs in general without flaring up the knees. This should help the overall fitness of your legs, and may help with your knees eventually by strengthening the surrounding tissues and getting more circulation into your knees. Options include going for walks instead of jogs (so you hit the ground with less force), elliptical, and swimming/walking in the water (moving in the water would likely be the gentlest on your knees, but still provide lots of resistance to build muscle). 

Biking may be helpful for leg muscles, but it might aggravate your knees especially if you go fast/long. Deadlifts as suggested above are the most amazing workout for the posterior chain that I know of. My understanding is that deadlifts tend to be a bit easier on the knees than squats (but I don't really do weighted squats so I can't speak from experience there). Deadlifts might still be too much for your knees, you'd have to experiment to find out. Start light! 

Some other thoughts about counteracting sitting in a chair all day: are you tensing your legs under the desk? (That'll make them even tighter). Are you able to move your legs while you're sitting, even if you're stuck at your desk working? Things like tapping your feet, doing ankle circles, or kicking your legs under the desk? Anything that makes you less like a statue may help with the stiffness from chair sitting. 

When I was in a quite sedentary phase of life (and had horrible posture on top of that), I needed to stretch my posterior chain a lot. When I got up from sitting I'd  often do a forward bend and feel it stretch all the way up my hamstrings and my lower back. I'd hang out like that for a few breaths until I  felt my hamstrings stretch out. 

And about the delayed nature of the knee pain: are you sure you're getting everything you need for your recovery? Enough water, enough food especially protein, enough sleep? I'm guessing you know how to do your recovery since you successfully strength train your upper body. I'm just bringing this up since the delayed nature seems reminiscent of DOMS. 

Good luck! 

[metaphysician]

hi Viper! thanks for suggestions - some answers inline:

7 hours ago, ViperN7 said:

 

Options include going for walks instead of jogs (so you hit the ground with less force), elliptical, and swimming/walking in the water (moving in the water would likely be the gentlest on your knees, but still provide lots of resistance to build muscle). 

those are all very good suggestions! i very occasionally swim and agree it's a great workout. and walking is certainly possible in my neighborhood.

 

7 hours ago, ViperN7 said:

 

 

Deadlifts as suggested above are the most amazing workout for the posterior chain that I know of. My understanding is that deadlifts tend to be a bit easier on the knees than squats (but I don't really do weighted squats so I can't speak from experience there). Deadlifts might still be too much for your knees, you'd have to experiment to find out. Start light!

definitely - that's 3 of 3 on deadlifts so i'll look into ways to manage that.

7 hours ago, ViperN7 said:

 

Some other thoughts about counteracting sitting in a chair all day: are you tensing your legs under the desk? (That'll make them even tighter). Are you able to move your legs while you're sitting, even if you're stuck at your desk working? Things like tapping your feet, doing ankle circles, or kicking your legs under the desk? Anything that makes you less like a statue may help with the stiffness from chair sitting. 

actually it's not too bad - i can move my legs around, cross them and whatever else. i also have a couch 10 ft away and often nap on it. but i could certainly set a timer, work awhile sitting down and then get up and take a break. or sit on the floor occasionally like Elastigirl mentioned.

 

7 hours ago, ViperN7 said:

 

And about the delayed nature of the knee pain: are you sure you're getting everything you need for your recovery? Enough water, enough food especially protein, enough sleep? I'm guessing you know how to do your recovery since you successfully strength train your upper body. I'm just bringing this up since the delayed nature seems reminiscent of DOMS. 

 

it's definitely not likely to be DOMS because when i get it it, it's located in the joint area, and clearly feels inflamed and painful. i get DOMS in upper body occasionally after exercising and it's not anything like that.

food intake is slightly on the low side but nothing drastic (roughly 125g protein, 2000 ish calories). probably need more for building muscle but it can aggravate digestion with too much food intake at once. need to work on drinking more water to help that issue plus spacing meals out, which i am making some progress on. diet is pretty well on point though. about my only junk food is a food bar at night. 

and sleep is okay - it's not 8 hours but i get 6 ish and i nap in the day.

 

anyway, will keep this thread updated if i make some headway on training legs. for now bodyweight it is. last night i did 4 sets 30 lbs dumbell one arm snatch which used minimal squat and it seemed to go okay. there was bit of a twinge afterwards but it settled down.

grateful for all the responses, folks!

 

[metaphysician]

while i am at it, if i have questions on various fitness/nutrition topics outside of this general introduction, is that commonly done on NF? or if not, other websites you might recommend? i have to say i'm super grateful for the responsiveness. i often consider subreddits but the fitness over 30 one (which seems a good match) requires you to have a certain amount of karma and membership participation before they'll even let you post topics.

 

i also noticed the Challenges section and realized it's quite different than i expected with everyone following a set challenge with specific goals. so in this case we make our own goals, like a 5 week resolution and then see how well we adhere to them/it, which is super cool! i have to think about what challenge i want to beat. the legs thing i want to start very slowly before bringing that in to regular workouts or training them up.

 

right now i'm unemployed and unlikely to get work anytime soon so just staying positive and getting any amount of exercise at all i consider a win. i'm already enrolled in a code camp with daily requirements i need to meet, so heaping a strict exercise/diet regimen on top of that seems a bit cruel.

[Elastigirl]

Yes, people post questions  and someone usually tries to answer. If you start a challenge, you could ask questions there, or just post a question in this or  one of the other thread.

 

For challenges, people  usually set them to fit in with their regualr lives. Most of us don't do super hard goals, just a bit of a stretch. You could put in a life goal to do with  the code camp, and something like go for a 10  minute walk at least  4 times a week, or whatever you think you could fit in your schedule.