Question about unassisted pullups

[DoogieT]

If my goal is to be able to do unassisted pullups, how many assisted pullups should I be trying to do per set? 6-8? Right now I'm doing 10 with either 55 or 40 pounds on the counter balance, depending on how much energy I have.

[Kishi]

With pull ups, at least, it's been my experience that you can benefit from a range of reps from 5 - 20 in multiple sets. The better thing to do, though, is to start taking the weight off of the assistance. That way, you could stay in the same rep range as before and make more progress toward unassisted pull ups.

[Waldo]

You will progress fastest by doing heavy singles, doubles, and triples. To get volume do more sets.

To get to pullups you need to get stronger. To get stronger the fastest you should be working as close to your 1RM as possible.

You can do 10 with 40 lbs assistance but you can't do 1 unassisted? You should be close enough that you can do good unassisted negatives. Do those instead if you can't do a single unassisted pullup.

Also switch to a chin grip (hands facing you). They are easier. Chinups and pullups are close enough that improving one improves the other directly. Once you can do 3-4 chinups then you should start working pull grips in (you should be able to do 1-2 pulls if you can do 3-4 chins). Until that point you are better off sticking with the chin grip exclusively.

[LRB]

Two days before I got my first unassisted pull up, I was absolutely convinced that I wasn't going to make my six-week deadline. I had tried a pullup and made it only about half-way to the bar before all progress stopped and I got completely stuck -- and this was with my arms not being tired, and me feeling good in general. Then I changed two things:

First, I didn't hang at the bottom of the pullup any longer than absolutely necessary to be sure that I was at full extension in my arms.

Second, I told myself there were only two ways down off the bar:

(1) Complete the pull-up;

(2) Hang on until my arms gave out and let go on their own.

Given the number of reps you can do with the relatively low assist, you may actually be able to do the pull-up, but just be in a place of needing to get your head around it.

As for how best to work toward a pull-up, I mixed it up: I did some low-rep, low-assist work; and I did some high-rep, high-assist work. Every so often, I would throw in sets of negatives, letting myself down as slowly as I possibly could each time until my arms pretty much couldn't slow my descent any more.

But mostly, for me, the pull up came when I didn't give myself the option of failing.

[DoogieT]

What do you mean "heavy singles, doubles and triples"? Like a set of only one, two or three reps?

I'm not sure if I can do one unassisted. I've never tried. I just assumed that I'd eventually be able to after doing 6-8 reps with like 40 pounds counterweight, and then slowly reducing the counterweight. I'll try it tonight at the gym.

If I'm trying to put on serious muscle (I'm tired of being a 99 pound weakling) should I be doing 6-8 reps in all of my exercises? I mean, I've done curl ups with the 50 pound bar and only failed at like 15 reps. Is there an FAQ anywhere on basic weightlifting knowledge?

[cline]

What Waldo and LRB said!!! Also, if you can, get off the assist machine and practice negatives and chin ups on a regular bar. It's a HUGE difference. You might need a box to stand on. Also, you can try jumping pullups to build some momentum.

[joeyb]

Two days before I got my first unassisted pull up, I was absolutely convinced that I wasn't going to make my six-week deadline. I had tried a pullup and made it only about half-way to the bar before all progress stopped and I got completely stuck -- and this was with my arms not being tired, and me feeling good in general.

Same thing here. I was doing negatives at home and I would try a pull up every once in a while to see how I was progressing. About halfway through, I could barely pull myself up at all. Another week later, I could only go halfway up. Another week later, I could get my eyes up to bar level. Then my chin to the bar, but not over. Each time, it felt like I had the strength to do it, but my body couldn't figure out how. When I finally did my pull up, it was as if I was activating muscles in steps instead of one smooth motion. It's kind of hard to describe, but the point is that I was progressing a lot more than I thought I was.

Doogie, if I were you, I'd attempt some negatives to see where you are at with them. Once I got to the point where I felt like I was controlling myself going down to the ground, I knew I was close. When I first started doing them, I could slow myself down, but I couldn't stop if I tried. You can still do your assisted pull ups if you want, but I think the negatives might help you get a better feel of where you are at and might help you progress faster. Also, I'd suggest that you do lower rep, lower assistance to try to build as much strength and get your muscles used to the work as quickly as possible.

[DoogieT]

Okay, I'll try lower rep, lower resistance. But what's a negative pull up? Wouldn't that be like pulling yourself into the ground or something?

[LRB]

Also, have you read this?

[DoogieT]

No, I hadn't. Thanks for the link. I'll read it again before I go to the gym tonight. Wow, Nerd Fitness is awesome.

[cianalas]

Okay, I'll try lower rep, lower resistance. But what's a negative pull up? Wouldn't that be like pulling yourself into the ground or something?

A negative pull-up is where you start at the top of the bar (using a chair, jump, buddy, band, etc. to get up there) and go down over a few seconds/as slow as you can. This should help strengthen the muscles faster than assisted pull-ups can.

[Waldo]

What do you mean "heavy singles, doubles and triples"? Like a set of only one, two or three reps?

I'm not sure if I can do one unassisted. I've never tried. I just assumed that I'd eventually be able to after doing 6-8 reps with like 40 pounds counterweight, and then slowly reducing the counterweight. I'll try it tonight at the gym.

If I'm trying to put on serious muscle (I'm tired of being a 99 pound weakling) should I be doing 6-8 reps in all of my exercises? I mean, I've done curl ups with the 50 pound bar and only failed at like 15 reps. Is there an FAQ anywhere on basic weightlifting knowledge?

Yes, 1, 2, 3 reps.

You get strongest fastest by working as close to your max weight as possible (or beyond, as is the case with negatives).

As to your other question....google "5x5"

(I'm a bodyweight guy so this is blasphemy, but those systems work and are ideal for you, plus it appears you do that whole gym thing).

[DoogieT]

Hey, everybody. Thanks for the advice about the negative pullups. I tried them at the gym yesterday and I could feel my traps firing. That's never happened with assisted pullups before, I can still feel them today. I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it, but what I did was to slowly lower myself and then do the best I could to pull myself back up. Repeat x 5.

Doogie

[DojangManChris]

Howdy Doogie! All the advice on here has been great so far, and I wanted to share a personal strategy that might help too.

Background: 3ish weeks ago I could not do one full pull-up without an assist. I could get to about eye level ONCE, and that was about it. Two days ago, I did 2 full pull-ups without assistance and it was freakin' glorious!

To train, I decided to create a body weight circuit loosely based on the stuff on NF and in line with my personal goals (10 continuous pull-ups, 100 continuous push-ups). I'm focusing on my upper body more right now because it needs the most work. I've been practicing a kicking martial art for a long time, so my legs are pretty solid.

Each muscle day (3 times per week) I do the following circuit (reps/set):

Pull-ups (10)

Push-ups (25)

Squats (30)

Planks (45 sec)

Chin-ups (10)

Alternating Leg Lunges (15 per leg)

Dips (10)

I go through the whole circuit, rest for 30-60 seconds, and then repeat. I try to make it through at least 3 circuits each muscle day.

Since I started this routine not able to do any pull-ups at all, I did only negatives for all 10 reps. I could do 2-3 chin-ups though, so I would do as many as I could with decent form, and then finish the set with negatives. To do them, I used the assisted pull-up/dip station at my gym, but with the kneepad folded down. That way I could use the steps on the side to get above the bar and lower myself down slowly. I shoot for 3-5 seconds each time I do a negative, and it burns like crazy. I love it!

If your assistance station doesn't have the option to lower the kneepad, you can just use no weight (though I feel like that affects my form) or get a box to stand on and use the regular pull-up bar. Whatever works for you.

One other piece of advice that helped me correct my form and put more power into each pull-up: lean back a bit and keep your head naturally straight. It helped me get everything in line, and created more of a "pull" motion and less of a "I'm handing from a bar and can't go anywhere" feeling. In this position you will naturally look up a bit because of your chest and head angles, but do not look up at the bar as you pull. Strains the Hell out of the wrong muscles, and I know for me it hurt in the bad way.

~Chris

[thatgirljj]

You will progress fastest by doing heavy singles, doubles, and triples. To get volume do more sets.

To get to pullups you need to get stronger. To get stronger the fastest you should be working as close to your 1RM as possible.

This. That first unassisted pull up means you have a 1RM of 100% bodyweight. If that's what you're working towards, then sets of 10 with a high assist aren't doing you much good.

I would also strongly suggest doing a few negative reps as well.

-jj

[Horsedog]

This. That first unassisted pull up means you have a 1RM of 100% bodyweight. If that's what you're working towards, then sets of 10 with a high assist aren't doing you much good.

I would also strongly suggest doing a few negative reps as well.

-jj

Totally agree. My own experience with using assisted pull-ups to transition to full bodyweight pull-ups was...humbling.

The machine you use for assisted pull-ups completely stabilizes your body, whereas in a bodyweight pull-up you are free-hanging and must rely upon your own muscles to stabilize yourself. The 2 exercises feel completely different.

That being said, I started doing free-hanging bodyweight pull-ups at the start of May (of this year). I could grunt through exactly 1 of 'em. But I stuck with it and made sure to do 3 sets of those each and every workout. Now, I can do a set of 4, followed by 2 sets of 2. Keep at it, and results will come (and quickly, too, since it's a new movement for you !!

- Horsedog

[Tom Kenobi]

You will progress fastest by doing heavy singles, doubles, and triples. To get volume do more sets.

To get to pullups you need to get stronger. To get stronger the fastest you should be working as close to your 1RM as possible.

You can do 10 with 40 lbs assistance but you can't do 1 unassisted? You should be close enough that you can do good unassisted negatives. Do those instead if you can't do a single unassisted pullup.

^This. I can personally attest to this. When I started with the rebellion I was using the resistance bands on my pull up bar. In 101 Days of straight training I was only able to get to 2.5 full body weight pulls. In the last 9+ weeks, I had switched tactics completely using just my body weight, starting with negatives and working up on a schedule. I am now at 7pulls for my max and was just able to do 2.5 Wide Grip Pulls last night, a new personal record. Feel free to check my progress and how I did it, its all documented on my NF Blog. Good luck!