Schooling as an adult?

[KillerGriller]

Sorry, this loooooong...

I have a question/rant regarding school, specifically University-type schooling as an adult…but it’s not what you might expect; let me give you some background.

Back in the days of high school, I was completely lost and waffled between conquering the world and being completely unmotivated to do anything. Needless to say, my grades were mediocre. In Ontario (at the time) high school had an optional 5th year where you could take advanced credits that universities required for entry; you need 6 gain entry (dependent on marks of course) and I had a whopping 3. The reason? In grade 12 I found what I thought was going to be an awesome career path etc. etc. and the courses were offered at University (or so I thought). In Canada you can attend university for a bachelors degree (etc.etc.), college for a diploma or certificates, trade school for the trades, etc. I’m sure the US has the same thing I’m just not sure of the nomenclature. I took my 2yr college diploma and an additional specialized certificate, joined the working world.

Fast forward 8yrs. I decided that maybe I should pursue my degree part-time to better my chances at conquering the world (professionally this time) and managed to get in at the local university as a mature student. Fast forward another 5yrs. After taking some time off (having/managing kids is busy work) I’m almost done my 1st year…..yes, my FIRST year. At one point after seeing an academic advisor (a few years ago) I was told that my professional experience should exempt me from a few courses and speed up my “educationâ€, unfortunately I recently went in to see exactly what I was eligible for and was flat out told that despite my 10+yrs of professional experience I would not be allowed to skip any courses or even write exemption tests for the appropriate courses. Needless to say, I’m frustrated.

I’ve been given absolutely no credit for my previous schooling (even to use as elective courses), or my professional experience; I’ve started at square one. At first I didn’t mind taking the core courses for my selected program, but it’s a huge kick in the sack when you have to pay hundreds of $$ to sit through elective after elective on totally unrelated crap that I’m not interested in (Microeconomics 101 anyone?) . With 2 kids and a full-time job it’s REALLY difficult to not feel guilty for the time away from your family, but at least if the courses meant something it might be better? (Sorry for the rant)

Anyway, realistically I could get a 3yr bachelors degree in 7-10yrs, but in the long run…is it worth it? I’m not even sure a 3yr bachelor is enough, or will the extra 15yrs of experience and some professional industry course be enough to make it happen? The financial & time output is big, and I’m not sure if the long-term payback is actually worth it, especially when you factor in time away from your family PLUS time away from other goals I have, not to mention time my wife needs to do her stuff…

I know the NF answer is “Do what you dream of/what you want to do with your life†but I’m looking for something a little deeper here…even just some comments on directions you’ve taken and/or regrets on what did/didn’t do when you had the chance.

[Jcannon98188]

My Dad is an IT professional. He has been doing what he does for over 30 years, and has skills that are in huge demand (Companies fly him across the country all the time to do Jobs that most cannot do). He never got a degree, and that comes back and bites him in the butt ALL THE TIME (He is looking for a better paying position). As much as it sucks to go to school, and as much as experiance SHOULD be better, the world still is in love with diplomas :/

[cline]

I taught (full time) here at uni for many, many years. I was in programs that had both traditional and "non-traditional" (adult) students (most of whom were in careers). I was also the administrator in charge of advising said students in our program. So, here's my $0.02:

1. Go see a new counselor specifically in the program you are interested in. BUT know that most college professors HATE advising students. You need to get in to the academic counseling center. The admissions folks will tell you just about anything you want to hear if you are going to pay full tuition. Ask for a face to face meeting and outline everything you said above. Ask for options on credits and a written breakdown as to what yours might look like. You might have options, you might not (see 2).

2. Stuff changes at uni a lot. We almost never gave "experience" exams because they were generally of really poor quality and in no way replaced the other knowledge. On the other hand, we routinely waived "internship" and other similar credits and awarded them based on "life experience". For example, if we required 10 hours of internship and a student could do another 5 as elective, a full time employee in the field might be able to get "time served". I know it's not much but to my guys, it was a lot. Sometimes, due to accrediting requirements, programs do not have a lot of flexibility. And, see 3 (you won't like 3 but keep reading to 4 promise it's uplifting!)

3. There's stuff you need to be exposed to that only uni can provide. Sometimes it's knowledge, formulas, etc. Sometimes its practice in critical thinking, sometimes it's exposure to ideas, sometimes it's working on stuff you think is useless. My students all argued that a lab science was a complete waste of time. They were all wrong - it taught critical thinking skills, failure, success, the importance of measuring, of taking time, of asking for help.... AND my "adult" students always argued they didn't need any of that because they'd been working forever, etc etc. The honest reality it we all need it and would benefit from more of it more regularly. Our worlds are always changing and our work worlds are always changing. So, yes, I see value in uni. (go to 4!!!)

4. GO!!! If you love learning, GO!!!! If the only way to do what you want to do is to get a uni degree, GO!!! Study anything you want. Really. Don't study what you should or what makes sense or something along the lines of what you already do (unless you want to do more). Think about why you are going. Honestly, study what you love. The rest will come. If you work hard and get a diversity of classes under your belt, you can work your way into a good job. BUT if you don't love it and have a strong career path through other routes, think about it twice before committing.

True story: young woman I had in class was a mediocre at best student. We both agreed she didn't try. She loved the material but hated college. She knew what she wanted to do and it didn't require college. Her parents were making her go and she hated every minute and it showed in her grades. While advising her I asked her about her career plans - they were solid and no, she didn't need college and yes, she was on the wait list to go into training and yes, she could have an awesome career and raise a family in the career. She'd done research, homework, was following a passion, etc. She was only in college because she was "supposed to be there". I advised her to pursue her career BUT I told her to come back when she was ready. That she'd be a better employee and would someday like to be a manager or maybe move into a different job and I would help her. But only when she was ready. 2 years later she came back. She loved her job but was ready to advance in special training and that required.... a degree. She was motivated because now she saw the relevance. I think she turned out pretty great.

[Maledictus]

Any advice I can give would be ridiculously specific to my industry and location ... but the people you are asking are not necessarily disinterested in what you do. If the only reason for doing it is to progress in your career, I'd be tempted to check with a couple of people in the industry (rather than the university) what sort of difference they think it would make (7 years is a huge time commitment). If you want to do it just to learn then both coursera and udacity are running free online courses that wouldn't necessarily count for much except to flag you're interested in learning and will to put in the time (no bad thing). They also happen to be free.

[ETFnerd]

like mal said... i thought about it but i don't have any advice per se...

however, i would think long and hard before committing significant financial resources into this... there are a lot of unemployed people with lots of skills out there and an alphabet soup of degrees... it guarantees nothing... but lots of student loan debt does guarantee something... that you won't easily get out of it as in the US student loans cannot be discharged even in bankruptcy... you have a family so you have to weigh these considerations carefully...

banks and schools are handing out student loans like they are going out of style and it's up to you to figure out if it makes sense to you... you don't have to make use of it just because it's there...

wherever you come out on this, best to you and your family...

[concretecavewoman]

“Do what you dream of/what you want to do with your lifeâ€

This should be amended with the caveats of...

...assuming that your dream can feed you and put a roof over your head.

...if you understand that your dream may never allow you to retire.

Given your circumstances, with a family and established career, it sounds like some cost-benefit analysis is in order. Are there more senior people in your industry with or without degrees who can give you advice on whether it's a worthwhile investment for you? Is there a career ceiling over your head, and if so, how permeable? If you take out a loan to fund your schooling, will you be able to pay back the loan, the productivity loss, and the lost interest that you would have accrued on moneys you spent on school with your increased salary? How necessary is post-secondary education in your line of work and are those trends changing?

These, I think, are some of the key questions you'd want to answer before totally pursuing it. And of course all of those great intangibles like lost time with the fam, etc

[Georges]

I'm not exactly sure what you already have... What is a 2-year college diploma? (Here in the US, that's usually an Associate's Degree, I think.)

Is an undergraduate degree your only option?

Also, is the school you've looked at your only option? They don't seem to be very well designed for "non-traditional" students. Maybe there's a better choice, especially if somewhere else will give credit for real world experience or allow you to test out of some costs/time.

[Ian]

KillerGriller, I'm in the same place you are. I have no solution, but I'm deferring university until I can afford to take the time to go full time. With the possible exception of a general arts degree, Canadian universities simply don't seem to be setup for part time students who work full time.

I've been taking every opportunity to take courses for free through my union, with the eventual idea of trying to get a college diploma in a related field, (since college courses are generally less intense than university, at least in my experience) and THEN apply to university full time. Between a diploma and my trades license I expect to be able to pursue a 4 year engineering degree in 2 and a half years... That makes the funding formula a lot easier. Between working summers, employment insurance, bursaries, and scholarships, I'm pretty sure it's doable.

I don't know your particular situation, but I wish you the best of luck!

[KillerGriller]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, there's some great stuff here.

A few notes:

-I don't see myself quitting my job and going back to school full-time, I've got a pretty good gig here and it fits my lifestyle (family demands, interests, coworkers, etc.) really well. I think it'd be foolish to do that unless I was 100% invested in a huge career shift, and my current situation was much worse.

- On that note, I'm not maxed out here (at work) yet so the pressure isn't imminent or anything but being forward looking I'd like to maximize my pluses in the next 25yrs, and minimize the minuses. It's definitely a cost-benefit analysis

- I do enjoy learning, but not when I'm being forced to retake material I use everyday or fulfill elective requirements simply to fill the pot. At the very least, if I was forced to take the core stuff again but could get credit for electives I'd be much happier

- To the above point: Cline, I appreciate the perspective however I do believe that a lot of those benefits you listed in your response can be achieved by completing core courses (again, as much as it pains me to say), can't say I learned much critical thinking in "History of Music"

- Lastly, my wife and I have our weekly schedule setup so that we each have certain nights each week where we are free to pursue our own interests while the other person handles the domestic duties. If I take a course most of my nights are dedicated to class, which takes time away from other goals/pursuits. It's a sacrifice that could be worth it in certain situations, and I'm kind of stuck as to how big a portion of the cost-benefit formula it is.

Thanks again everyone