MEN ONLY THREAD part two

[Artinum]

Heavy lifting- definite increase in libido.

Stress - definite decrease!

Also rubbish, cold, damp weather is no good!

I completely agree on the weather!

[Guest Snake McClain]

heavy lifting increase. stress decrease (MAJORLY for me). weather = no change (that i've observed)

[161803398874989]

Holy shit, yes, Snake. Working out makes a man happy.

 

Also, I'm finally back on my way to working out again. I've been seeing a physio for the past few months, and now I can start doing stuff with my shoulder again (only incline pushups, but hey, they don't hurt anymore), and I hope my knee is not too far away. Lately it's been very cold here, so that isn't particularly conducive to healing.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Ouch! What happened?

[Mordechaj]

The few times I was able to do weightlifting it was motivational for me too.

[Woodsrider]

http://www.averagemarrieddad.com/

 

I just found this website.  Any thoughts?

Well I spent about 8 hours reading that site and a bunch of other links this guy posted.

Turns out our lack of sex life is my fault.    And here I thought it was because of our busy lives that leaves us ready for sleep at 9pm every night.  Our jobs have early start times so we are up at 5am almost every morning.  I like my sleep too.

Some of the stuff is good reading, while a bunch of it is a pile BS.  I'd be single if I did everything these guys suggest yet they say I'd be better off.  Not so sure about that.

[Guest Snake McClain]

So here is an interesting topic. The "tit for tat" thing that happens in relationships. I was reading an article on cracked and they were discussing how in all relationships (platonic or romantic) this happens. Sometimes one person feels the other person owes them. Example in the article: There's this weird thing where in most relationships, and maybe in every relationship at one point or another, both parties think the other side is in debt to them.

Most bad marriages work that way. The wife thinks, "This guy was a lonely mess before I came along, who knows where he'd be if it wasn't for me rescuing him! Probably dead!" Meanwhile, the guy thinks, "I'm the breadwinner, I gave her this nice house, if not for me she could have wound up with some scumbag who beats her! Probably to death!" Both of them think they're the martyr in the relationship, selflessly sacrificing while the other does nothing but take. Each is shocked and pissed off when they find out that the other person is working from a different balance sheet.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-youre-accidentally-making-everyone-hate-you/#ixzz2JHpIKUYE

 

Okay so when reading this I was thinking that i do not tend to do this to others. I don't buy dinner on dates or whatever and later think, "oh man why didn't they get drinks or desert? what the fuck?" or any of that. HOWEVER I do always think that THEY are doing that to me....

 

So in other words, I do not think they owe me, but I am constantly afraid that if another person (friend, family, girlfriend, co-worker) does something for me, they are going to hold it over my head. Like I am ALWAYS thinking this. Always. Seriously like every single day. What do you think is the cause of this? How do I get out of that mentality?

[Artinum]

Ah! Now this goes back a little bit for me, but here's an idea I picked up many years ago. Tell me what you make of it...

 

Functional relationship (I was going to say "normal", but that might be a lie!):

Woman: "Why don't you buy me flowers any more?"

Man: (buys flowers)

Happiness restored.

 

Disfunctional relationship:

Woman: "Why don't you buy me flowers any more?"

Man: "I pay the bills and the mortgage so you can stay at home all day. Isn't that enough?"

Woman: "You think I want to stay at home and do the dishes? You don't appreciate me any more. Are you sleeping with Sandra again?"

Man: "I was drunk and it meant nothing. If you're going to bring that up again, what about that time with Steven?"

Woman: "Nothing happened. You know that."

Man: "I've only got your word for that."

And so on and so on...

 

The former is a simple business transaction. The latter is a game of one-upmanship with no winner as they both use different scoring systems... and both lose, though neither will admit it (game theory in action - this is the Prisoner's Dilemma). Rather than try to improve, they take the easier route of reducing their partner to their level through the use of psychological weapons, such as fear, guilt, lies, sense of duty, money and so on (in domestic violence cases, they resort to the crudest and most powerful of all - force).

 

How do you avoid it? You don't play. If you partner is trying to bring you down with these weapons, give a rational response. It'll confuse and possibly anger them, but you'll be cutting any argument dead.

Woman: "You think I want to stay at home and do the dishes? You don't appreciate me any more. Are you sleeping with Sandra again?"

Man: "That happened once and you decided to forgive me and stay in the relationship. Have you changed your mind?"

Woman: "..." (realising she's threatened to break up and had her bluff called)

 

Anyway, I have to start dinner. Thoughts?

[Guest Snake McClain]

Ah! Now this goes back a little bit for me, but here's an idea I picked up many years ago. Tell me what you make of it...

 

Functional relationship (I was going to say "normal", but that might be a lie!):

Woman: "Why don't you buy me flowers any more?"

Man: (buys flowers)

Happiness restored.

 

Disfunctional relationship:

Woman: "Why don't you buy me flowers any more?"

Man: "I pay the bills and the mortgage so you can stay at home all day. Isn't that enough?"

Woman: "You think I want to stay at home and do the dishes? You don't appreciate me any more. Are you sleeping with Sandra again?"

Man: "I was drunk and it meant nothing. If you're going to bring that up again, what about that time with Steven?"

Woman: "Nothing happened. You know that."

Man: "I've only got your word for that."

And so on and so on...

 

The former is a simple business transaction. The latter is a game of one-upmanship with no winner as they both use different scoring systems... and both lose, though neither will admit it (game theory in action - this is the Prisoner's Dilemma). Rather than try to improve, they take the easier route of reducing their partner to their level through the use of psychological weapons, such as fear, guilt, lies, sense of duty, money and so on (in domestic violence cases, they resort to the crudest and most powerful of all - force).

 

How do you avoid it? You don't play. If you partner is trying to bring you down with these weapons, give a rational response. It'll confuse and possibly anger them, but you'll be cutting any argument dead.

Woman: "You think I want to stay at home and do the dishes? You don't appreciate me any more. Are you sleeping with Sandra again?"

Man: "That happened once and you decided to forgive me and stay in the relationship. Have you changed your mind?"

Woman: "..." (realising she's threatened to break up and had her bluff called)

 

Anyway, I have to start dinner. Thoughts?

 

 

 

i think that is a great truth there. if both people speak logically and rationally to each other it avoids so many issues. SO SO MANY. which is why i'm very happy in the relationship I'm in now. We have a discussion. it could turn ugly (as it does often with many couples in the world). we remember we have mutual respect and admiration for each other. We choose to speak calmly and rationally to each other. conflict is resolved in five minutes. no conflict anymore. 

 

so Yes, I agree. the first is a business arrangement (thank the god's i got out of that relationship) and the second is definitely a poisonous relationship filled with ego and devoid of anything that comes close to representing love. the last is probably the best way to handle something HOWEVER even in that third scenario the husband has not tended to the wife's needs. Sure he pays the bills and she stays home...but if she didn't exist wouldn't he pay the bills anyway? so really she isn't changing the scenario. she just relieves in home stress from him (cleaning or cooking or whatever the fuck is going on there). So REALLY they are both doing something for each other here. that being the case shouldn't he and her both do extra things for each other beyond base responsibilities? So yes he SHOULD buy her flowers. NOT because flowers are important but that is what makes HER feel valued/treasured. And she should do whatever the thing is for him to make him happy. So even in the third relationship example there is still the missing element of making the other person happy.

 

That's my two cents.

[Church]

I agree with snake here. A healthy relationship is basically a 50/50 split in terms of responsibility and give/take. But it'll fall all to pieces if you don't do the little things that make the other person know you're still in love and thinking about them and want them to be happy. And it can be as simple as giving her a hug and kiss when you get home and asking how her day went.

[161803398874989]

cleaning or cooking or whatever the fuck is going on there

Your man card was well deserved.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I agree with snake here. A healthy relationship is basically a 50/50 split in terms of responsibility and give/take. But it'll fall all to pieces if you don't do the little things that make the other person know you're still in love and thinking about them and want them to be happy. And it can be as simple as giving her a hug and kiss when you get home and asking how her day went.

 

pretty much.

 

Your man card was well deserved.

 

hey hey, wait a minute now. i wasn't saying the woman SHOULD do that. I was using the example given by Artinum. In context it was not chauvinistic. 

[Artinum]

A lot of the problem is telepathy, or the assumption of it, and I fall into this just as much as anyone else. In my example, the man never buys his wife flowers - but she hasn't asked him to before now. She's been waiting for him to realise what she wants but not expressed it, and then gets annoyed because he didn't respond to her unspoken wishes. There are probably equivalents for the other gender, but I can't give any examples - because as a man myself, I understand what men generally want; women are working from a different mindset and have as much clue what's going on in a man's mind as I have about a woman's mind.

 

Keeping different balance sheets is normal and not a problem in itself - the things I value in a relationship may be nothing to my partner, but conversely my partner wants things I do without much effort. As long as the totals stack up, that's fine. The problem is when these balance sheets are secret, or worse, when you're keeping two sets of accounts,,, one suggesting everything is fine (for the benefit of family, friends, etc) and a true account you don't share. And damn it, I do that myself.

[Guest Snake McClain]

A lot of the problem is telepathy, or the assumption of it, and I fall into this just as much as anyone else. In my example, the man never buys his wife flowers - but she hasn't asked him to before now. She's been waiting for him to realise what she wants but not expressed it, and then gets annoyed because he didn't respond to her unspoken wishes. There are probably equivalents for the other gender, but I can't give any examples - because as a man myself, I understand what men generally want; women are working from a different mindset and have as much clue what's going on in a man's mind as I have about a woman's mind.

 

Keeping different balance sheets is normal and not a problem in itself - the things I value in a relationship may be nothing to my partner, but conversely my partner wants things I do without much effort. As long as the totals stack up, that's fine. The problem is when these balance sheets are secret, or worse, when you're keeping two sets of accounts,,, one suggesting everything is fine (for the benefit of family, friends, etc) and a true account you don't share. And damn it, I do that myself.

 

but...isn't it then your (mine, his, hers whoevers) responsibility to ASK their partner if they are happy? To just say, "hey [insert name], what can i do to make you happy today?" Just ask. I know it is my responsibility to be sure that my significant other has her needs met and fulfilled. So knowing that it is then my duty (and desire) to be sure i know. And in doing that I know she will do the same for me. It's just what tends to happen unless you're dating a completely self centered egoistic person. So sure maybe the partner is playing the telepathy game, but then we could just do our part and be attentive to our significant others and just ask them if they have all they need to be happy. 

[KillerGriller]

but...isn't it then your (mine, his, hers whoevers) responsibility to ASK their partner if they are happy?

No.  Sure you SHOULD do it every now and again, but "your responsibility"?  Definitely not.  Think about Steve's latest post about personal repsonisbility.  It's your responsibility to make sure YOU are happy within the confines you place on yourself (and vice versa for your partner).  When you are happy, you will be more wiling/able to ensure your partner is happy WITHIN YOUR ABILITY.  If your partner isn't happy and unwilling to volcalize it then it's THEIR issue to work through, it doens't make it your responisibility.  You can't change something you don't know needs changing?  Even being attentive to their needs, you aren't going to pick up everything.  Fatigue, stress, sickness, work, friends, kids etc., LIFE is distracting and theresimply isn't enough time in the day to keep an eye on their every need/desire.  For both partners: Be an advocate for yourself (not a tyrant) and things will be MUCH easier to work through.

 

Also, relationships are rarely 50/50, you just have to work to get to a place where you know it's OK to be in a "relational defecit" for a while, knowing that you love and support your partner enough that they can do the same when needed.  40/60, 60/40 we're always in flux.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I agree with that. Its their responsibility to speak up but some people simply arent good with expressing needs emotionally. Sometimes. And i dont think many relationships are 50/50. Somebody is always in charge. One day it might be me about dinner and the next her about a movie. But balance is key and its necessary to choose to give and take as needed. Im pers o nally really bad with the taking part. I have a terrible time accepting help or kindness. I need to fix that.

[KillerGriller]

I agree with that. Its their responsibility to speak up but some people simply arent good with expressing needs emotionally

Sure, but you can't "fix" that or them, you can support & help them but utlimately they have to do it for themselves.

 

 Im pers o nally really bad with the taking part. I have a terrible time accepting help or kindness. I need to fix that.

Sounds like a Life Challenge for the next 6 week challenge   You can do it Snake!

[mrRed]

So dudes ... Anger / rage / aggression, etc ...

 

Any good ideas on how to deal with it?

 

Mine has been manifesting in a brooding self-deprication mode, where I am super defensive and been getting a little snappy (not yelling, but always on the defensive even when she's just asking me benign questions) with my wife recently (not something i'm proud of) and it sucks. She's been pretty understanding as my work stress levels have been through the roof since October, but it's not fair to her and I don't have any good coping mechanisms for this type of stuff.

 

 

It's better when I'm working out regularly, but damn if I don't like it one bit.

[Artinum]

My anger usually simmers inside and ends up making me depressed. I can no longer express it, thanks to sustained efforts by adults throughout my childhood to stop my meltdowns, and this is not healthy. I do, however, get irritable when under stress. So I sort of have the opposite problem. Best escape valve I have is to put on loud music, get the hell away from the source of stress and wear myself out (long walks in the past - these days I might go running, though I'm not sure I want to run angry. It would spoil them for me.)

[Church]

A good endorphin rush helps keep me in balance. And when I had a long term girlfriend (WAY back in the day) I found that it relieved a tremendous amount of stress and tension to just cuddle on the couch watch a movie together. Weather we had sex that night or not. I know it's not very 'manly', but humans are social animals, and sometimes we just need a heartfelt hug, dammit.

[Guest Snake McClain]

So dudes ... Anger / rage / aggression, etc ...

 

Any good ideas on how to deal with it?

 

Mine has been manifesting in a brooding self-deprication mode, where I am super defensive and been getting a little snappy (not yelling, but always on the defensive even when she's just asking me benign questions) with my wife recently (not something i'm proud of) and it sucks. She's been pretty understanding as my work stress levels have been through the roof since October, but it's not fair to her and I don't have any good coping mechanisms for this type of stuff.

 

 

It's better when I'm working out regularly, but damn if I don't like it one bit.

 

I found in my experiences when i start lashing out it is because of a frustration or an insecurity. usually one of the two things. It's really hard to over come insecurities sometimes and I know that. But if that's what it is that causes you to be frustrated then you need to work at it and fight it or it will constantly hold you down. on the other hand if it is a frustration...a legitimate one and you are not getting the support you need to beat it then you may have a real issue. When you start taking it out on your SO then there is a real issue there too. I don't know what to say except, that when i get really frustrated i need to a) walk away and do something intensely physical to clear out. sometimes that won't even do the job. but it certainly helps. even if it only worked half the time it's still worth the chance of not taking it out on your loved ones. This advice was probably not that helpful. Anger is a hard thing to conquer. I used to have MAJOR anger issues with my ex wife...but i found that it was because she pushed my buttons. we were just a bad combination. sometimes you may need to adjust yourself and your wife may need to make adjustments...but you said she's been really understanding so i suppose that she isn't causing any problems and in reality she is probably helping you more than you realize and seems that she is incredibly loving towards you. So...I dunno. just try to think before you react. always imagine how badly you could be hurting her feelings if you say the wrong thing. just breathe and relax.

 

My anger usually simmers inside and ends up making me depressed. I can no longer express it, thanks to sustained efforts by adults throughout my childhood to stop my meltdowns, and this is not healthy. I do, however, get irritable when under stress. So I sort of have the opposite problem. Best escape valve I have is to put on loud music, get the hell away from the source of stress and wear myself out (long walks in the past - these days I might go running, though I'm not sure I want to run angry. It would spoil them for me.)

 

i hate running. running would ruin running for me.

 

A good endorphin rush helps keep me in balance. And when I had a long term girlfriend (WAY back in the day) I found that it relieved a tremendous amount of stress and tension to just cuddle on the couch watch a movie together. Weather we had sex that night or not. I know it's not very 'manly', but humans are social animals, and sometimes we just need a heartfelt hug, dammit.

 

I agree with this. sometimes on your worst days the best thing to do is have someone close, a friend or a SO or whoever...just someone to talk to or spend time with. this can help tremendously. just to get your mind off of things and deload your mind. 

[Guest Snake McClain]

I know what im about to say may be annoyng but...i just want to say my girlfriend is really hot. And nice. I know its not manly to be all "im so lucky" but man...im really fucking Lucky.

[Artinum]

Can you rephrase that, please? Lucky was the name of my childhood cat!

[Guest Snake McClain]

So ive got this girlfriend, right? And she's pretty radical. Definitely fortunate to have someone so attractive and fun to be around. Also shes really sweet.

Happy now artinum?

[Artinum]

Ecstatic, my dear Snake.