What do you believe?

[Teros]

I'm atheist.  went to catholic school for 7 years.  couldn't stand the logical loopholes and issues with irrational hatred.  8th grade i was a christian.  by 10th grade I read some buddhism books and believed in a hybrid of zen-christianity I thought of.  by senior year I was agnostic.  As long as you don't force your beliefs onto others then believe whatever you want.  Whether it's Yahweh, jesus, mohammad, reincarnation, taoism, whatever. 

[Elder]

A-fucking-men.

How would we say that without the ironic "Amen"? Right on?

 

Right fucking on!

 

Fuckin' Eh Man! 

[mommydeathcreeper]

Personally, I like the idea that salvation/nirvana/happiness/spiritual enlightenment or whatever you choose to call it is like the summit of a mountain we're all climbing. There are many ways to get there, but no one is the "right" path. It all depends on what feels right to you.

[Anamal]

I think one of the things that has always interested me about pushy christians (ya know the kind that try and shove their beliefs on you) is that they think that if there was no god/deity is that people would just go around raping and murdering as much as they want.

 

Well ya know what? I do go around raping, murdering and pillaging as much as I want... and that ammount is zero. Because I don't need the fear of eternal damnation to be a good person. Does that mean all religious zelots would be terrible people if they didn't have the fear of god? Kinda makes ya think doesn't it.

[Irish Oisin]

Fuckin' Eh Man! 

 

Oh, for sure eh?

 

I think one of the things that has always interested me about pushy christians (ya know the kind that try and shove their beliefs on you) is that they think that if there was no god/deity is that people would just go around raping and murdering as much as they want.

 

Well ya know what? I do go around raping, murdering and pillaging as much as I want... and that ammount is zero. Because I don't need the fear of eternal damnation to be a good person. Does that mean all religious zelots would be terrible people if they didn't have the fear of god? Kinda makes ya think doesn't it.

 Exactly, the reason I don't do that is because I'm not a fucking asshole! The threat of hell doesn't come into it! I have morals because I'm a nice person regardless. That, and the space taco teaches love and tolerance

[Zorch]

I think one of the things that has always interested me about pushy christians (ya know the kind that try and shove their beliefs on you) is that they think that if there was no god/deity is that people would just go around raping and murdering as much as they want.

 

Well ya know what? I do go around raping, murdering and pillaging as much as I want... and that ammount is zero. Because I don't need the fear of eternal damnation to be a good person. Does that mean all religious zelots would be terrible people if they didn't have the fear of god? Kinda makes ya think doesn't it.

 

Just to interject a little balance into the discussion - the problem isn't pushy Christians - it's pushy people in general - be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic/Atheist, I've seen just about every religion/non-religion claim that other belief systems are the cause of moral problems, that certain beliefs(or lack thereof) will lead one to be an awful person and treat people like crap.

 

My experience is that this simply isn't true in most cases.  I know good, moral people of all religions and belief systems.  And for that matter, a few real jerks from any and every imaginable background as well.  Pushing one's beliefs on others is a problem, but no group is universally guilty of it, nor is the problem exclusive to any one group.

 

I stand by the concluding statement from my previous post:

 

In the end though, everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and so long as people treat each other decently, they can believe whatever they want and I'm cool with that. 

[Irish Oisin]

Just to add to that again, I've never been stopped by a jewish, muslim, buddhist, taoist or atheist person on the street or had one call to my damn house telling me that I should subscribe to their religion. It's always christians who do that, in my experience. I'm normally polite to them, but they can be pushy.

[Rostov]

It's a very difficult one.  If you genuinely believe that you have special access to fundamental truths about the universe/meaning of life that ought to be shared with others, in the interests of these others, then it's hard not to conclude that you have a positive duty to share it.  By way of analogy, if I think that the building is on fire I may not be convinced by the argument that what I ought to do is to let everyone form their own conclusions about the relative engulfment of their surroundings, rather than push my personal view onto them and hassle them with my door knocking, shouting, and general attention-seeking behaviour.  I try to remember this when I do come across missionary-types.

 

However.....

 

I think some of these missionary types don't really care about me at all.  They're not trying to convert or persuade, but instead to score points with their God for themselves.  They've tried (however half-heartedly, however dismally, however rudely) and so they get their bonus points, regardless of my reaction or response.  I can only conclude this from some of the tactics that are used which are counter-productive to the point of being laughable.  Sometimes they're even confrontational, presumably because they like to feel that they're being persecuted. 

 

But......

 

As others have already said, these people are very much in the minority. 

 

If I were allowed one rule in debates and discussions about religion, it would be this:

"Thou shalt not slander nor distort the views of those with who thou disagree-eth.  Neither shalt thou misrepresent or stereotype others, or deployeth arguments aimed at a target of straw."

 

So, for example.... in the UK (at least, and likely elsewhere too), it's only tiny minority of Christians that (a) have any problem with accepting evolution and ( think it's okay to knock on your door at 9am on a Saturday morning.  I think it's dangerous to generalise from the worst instances, and pass either of these things off as a general truth about Christians.  The "no morality without God" line is similarly slanderous, because it's so obviously false. 

[Irish Oisin]

What I love asking them is "How would you feel if I called to your house, and all of your neighbours houses, and told you about the good news of atheism?"

 

And the stupid ones say "Well I wouldn't like that at all" and the smarter ones will actually be nice about it and we'll part ways on amiable terms!

[Anamal]

Really, I think what it all comes down to is: if you're not hurting other people, pressuring them to believe as you do, or excluding groups for alternate beliefs, I could really care less what do, believe, or practice. Religious zealots do get the brunt of this antagonism, because (they're really vocal), they make the evening news.

 

On the same note (and watch out, this will probably offend somebody): http://theoatmeal.com/comics/extremists

[magi192]

Agnostic humanist here.

 

Regarding pushy/preachy people, they can be annoying when I'm feeling particularly impatient/rushed/groggy, but my mentality is similar to Rostov's: I can't get angry at them for trying to spread some news they believe is good. I can't see anything wrong with that, whether they be christians, monks, vegans, atheists, muslims, yaoi fangirls, etc. In fact, while I'm not crazy about listening to sermons, hearing testimonies and looking at the art inspired by the beliefs of others is fun.

 

Now, the people that do get to me are people that are insulting and look down on others. I just can't see the point in preaching love if you're not practicing it.

[Timmy M]

i love me some QI 

[Irish Oisin]

Stephen Fry is one of the best human beings that has ever existed. End of story.

[RisenPhoenix]

Stephen Fry is one of the best human beings that has ever existed. End of story.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.  I have a serious man-crush on Stephen Fry.

[Irish Oisin]

He's my number one "If you could have a few drinks with one person..."

[Cruella T'Kill]

What I love asking them is "How would you feel if I called to your house, and all of your neighbours houses, and told you about the good news of atheism?"

 

And the stupid ones say "Well I wouldn't like that at all" and the smarter ones will actually be nice about it and we'll part ways on amiable terms!

 

Someone did exactly that!  This guy got dressed up in a shirt and tie (and nametag!) and went door to door Saturday 9am in a predominantly Mormon neighbourhood with his holy text (The Origin of the Species) and asked if he could share his view on evolution, atheism and science.  It resulted in a lot of door slamming and insults.  And no one wanted to answer his question "How do you like being disturbed early on a Saturday morning to listen to preaching?"  I don't have access to youtube at work, otherwise, I'd try and find the video....

 

My fav quote on the subject is Dawkins: "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded our brains fall out."

 

Last year I was privileged enough to attend the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne.  It was an amazing experience to meet other like-minded people and discuss reason, skepticism and the growing problem of radical religions.  I really try to subscribe to a live and let live policy, but people make that awfully difficult sometimes....

[Irish Oisin]

I heard about that alright, but I've never looked it up. I heard they get really pissed off with the guy too, it just goes to show, they're hypocrites.

 

What I don't understand is the christians who come to Ireland from America to preach and hassle people. Who the fuck do they think they are that they travel thousands of miles to preach to people about that damn book? "Trying to spread the good news", fuck off. It's incredibly arrogant, walking door to door pushing a religion. They may as well be selling avon!

[Timmy M]

 

My fav quote on the subject is Dawkins: "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded our brains fall out."

 

 

[Artinum]

I linked that very song of Tim's in one of my blog posts.

[Elastigirl]

Hmm.. it seems to me that you guys should start a new thread entitled"What we don't like about religious people" and post all your gripes there. Because this started as a thread where people were asked what their beliefs were , but you are turninig it  into a what bugs you about religoious people, which pretty much ensures that  Christians aren't going to post on this thread, or if they do they feel as if they have to automatically defend themselves.

 

Honestly, I feel like you are saying how pushy Christians are and how they think they are better than you, but so far in this thread, it have seen more Christian bashing than atheism bashing.

 

My point in writing this is hopefully not to start a fight, but to make you aware, that yes there are Christians on this board, and no we don't like to be told that we are pushy and hypocritical. We do however want to share the things we have in common, and to encourage one another, so I would ask that we get back to the encouraging part of this board that we all love.

[Timmy M]

sorry, i guess we got carried away... but you've got to admit there's an awful lot of good comedy directed at 'annoying christians'

sharing is caring!

[Raikas]

Hmm.. it seems to me that you guys should start a new thread entitled"What we don't like about religious people" and post all your gripes there. Because this started as a thread where people were asked what their beliefs were , but you are turninig it  into a what bugs you about religoious people, which pretty much ensures that  Christians aren't going to post on this thread, or if they do they feel as if they have to automatically defend themselves.

 

 

To be fair, by virtue of being an English-language board most people here who are non-Christian (religious or atheist) are going to have a shared experience of their faith (or lack of faith) being challenged by members of the majority religions.   That's just part of the religious (or non-religious, as it may be) experience of non-Christians in majority Christian spaces - I think that experience has to effect one's own belief system (or lack of belief), so why isn't that fair game for the thread?

 

 

 

we don't like to be told that we are pushy and hypocritical.

If someone has an experience with pushy and hypocritical missionary types, that isn't a blanket condemnation of all people who share that faith - it's specific to that experience.  If you're not a pushy and hypocritical missionary type, then that's not something to take personally, is it?

[Elastigirl]

sorry, i guess we got carried away... but you've got to admit there's an awful lot of good comedy directed at 'annoying christians'

sharing is caring!

Thanks, and probably true on the comedy

 

To be fair, by virtue of being an English-language board most people here who are non-Christian (religious or atheist) are going to have a shared experience of their faith (or lack of faith) being challenged by members of the majority religions.   That's just part of the religious (or non-religious, as it may be) experience of non-Christians in majority Christian spaces - I think that experience has to effect one's own belief system (or lack of belief), so why isn't that fair game for the thread?

 

 

 

If someone has an experience with pushy and hypocritical missionary types, that isn't a blanket condemnation of all people who share that faith - it's specific to that experience.  If you're not a pushy and hypocritical missionary type, then that's not something to take personally, is it?

Where it starts to become personal is when it goes from personal shared expereinces to calling all Christians hypocritical and pushy. To me it seemed to have started off like you say, people just saying how their experiences shaped their beliefs, but then seemed to veering more into the "lets just all post our gripes about Christians ", which is what I was addressing.

 

 

edited to add: those were just my 2 cents as a Christiian. You all of course free to discuss most anything. And really I need to be not looking at this thread anyway, as I still haven't figured out what my goals are going to be. So, I'll just let you guys carry on your discussion and I will go and figure out my challenge

[bigm141414]

Ohai nerds. Just checking in to make sure this thread doesn't veer too far off its intended purposes. 

 

Stay classy.  

 

 

-Bigm.

[Artinum]

My strongest experience of a pushy missionary type religious person wasn't from a Christian (though I've met a few pushy Christians; however, generally I find most "normal" Christians are just as perturbed by the overzealous). I was offered a free personality test on the streets of Brighton while a student, and I was then subjected to the most insane hard sell I've ever encountered. The woman trying to push this sale was genuinely frightening in her earnestness.

 

What I didn't know at the time but found out some years later is that she was working for the Church of Scientology. What I've learned since makes even the odder parts of Christianity seem positively comforting.