Language learning

[Hannibal]

I noticed that quite a few others out there are learning foreign languages. What are you learning? Why did you choose it? Any tips for people aspiring to learn that language?

As for me, I've been learning Japanese for the past several years. I never specifically wanted to learn it, but after I got a job here I figured I'd better learn as much as I could. I only really started taking it seriously about 5 years ago, as the first few years I was comfortable living in the expat bubble, and really had no reason to learn. I'm mostly self taught, so my speaking is terrible for the amount of time I've lived here, but I'm pretty comfortable with my reading and writing, vis-a-vis time to ability. At the outset I would have expected the opposite, but once I figured out how one's personality and desire to speak plays into learning a language it makes perfect sense. I'm a naturally quiet person and don't initiate conversation too often. Hence my poor speaking skills, and even poorer vocabulary. One of my goals for the next 6 week challenge will probably be related to speaking more often at work. 5 out of the 6 weeks of this challenge are on vacation, so doesn't make sense to do that for this one. Anyway...

The best advice I can give would be, aside from "use it as much as possible," would be to not worry about the kanji. I know when I first got started with Japanese the kanji intimidated the hell out of me. It put me off and that fear stunted my growth for a good year or two. But once I started learning it, it's really, really simple. Just takes elbow grease. If you learn 1 or 2 new kanji a week, it's very manageable and you'll see steady progress.

[tsuchinoko92]

I learn japanese as well.

But my tip is: Relate what you learn with something you can remember.

[Vegemighty]

I did 4 years of German in high school. I still remember alot. But I am not nearly as good as I used to be.

Now I learn Chinese. I spent a semester there just this past spring. Amazing country and amazing people. I want to have further adventures in China. I'm jealous of you japanese learners. No tones, a substitue phonetic system for some kanji. What more do you need? I was a little intimidated by characters at first, but its probably the funnest part of chinese. They're interesting to look at, theyre fun to write once you get the rhythm, of course its not so easy because they dont mean anything until you learn what they mean.

[mpbstereo]

I learned Catalan by watching movies I knew back and forth dubbed in Catalan with subtitles, and then the opposite (in English with Catalan subtitles).

Granted, it bears more than a passing resemblance to Spanish (my native language), so it was easier to pick up than, say, Swahili.

[Hannibal]

Tsuchinoko: yes, context is very important. It's one thing I've learned as both a foreign language teacher and a language learner, that it's so important to be able to personalize/internalize the language. Internalizing it puts it into a context, and then it's so much easier to remember. It's kind of hard to do when you're planning lessons for 34+ students, but when you're learning on your own it's easier.

Reading this thread so far has got me wondering, what's the English education system like in Panama? Is it common from a young age, or are you two exceptions to the norm? I admit, I know next to nothing about Panama, so sorry if that question comes off as dumb or insulting.

[Centurion]

I'm "learning" German, by which I mean I remember some of what I did in school (which was 6+ years ago), took a beginners class at Uni this past semester (and will be continuing the classes next semester) and I often find myself trying to formulate sentences in German (with varying success). I'd really love to be able to speak German properly (and a few other languages as well) but I seem to struggle with it in practice. I've heard good things about the Language Hacking Guide which seems to emphasise communicating in your target language from the very beginning without worrying about making mistakes. My problem isn't so much that I'm worried about making mistakes but more that my knowledge is pretty limited so I feel somewhat constrained as to what I can actually say. Does any one have any tips or tricks or just general advice, it'd be much appreciated?

[bigm141414]

I'm learning Spanish, since I am going to Spain and would like to at least understand a bit of what is going on around me. TV shows, radio, Rosetta Stone, and amused but obliging co-workers are my main forms of learning the language. Being immersed in a language as much as possible is the fastest way to learn it. Hannibal you go it great living in Japan, since it is all around you.

[mpbstereo]

Reading this thread so far has got me wondering, what's the English education system like in Panama? Is it common from a young age, or are you two exceptions to the norm? I admit, I know next to nothing about Panama, so sorry if that question comes off as dumb or insulting.

Nothing to apologize for Hannibal... I can only speak for myself, I'm not familiar with Tsuchinoko's background, I actually learned English first, by virtue of having been raised in Massachusetts, so I'm definitely outside the norm. Even after my family moved back to Panama when I was 10, my parents made a conscious effort to have my education continue in English, to not hamper my development. Obviously, the schools here that offer a comprehensive education entirely in English are a minority... The other schools are entirely in Spanish, save for an English class here and there, and those vary in quality, depending on the school itself.

That said, Panama, as a culture, does have a stronger link to the English language than any country in Latin America that I can think of. We had an American military presence from 1914-2000, located in a sovereign zone that extended about 5 miles to either side of the Panama Canal. What this meant was there were 2 Department of Defense founded High Schools in the country, which essentially functioned as your average American High School - and this was open to local students as well, not just military kids or kids whose parents worked for the Panama Canal Commission. The size and location of said military presence was of enough tactical importance to establish the U.S. Southern Command out of Panama as well; they operated the Southern Command Network, a TV station that was specific in American content (sitcoms, NFL games, hollywood movies, etc.) but available throughout the whole country. Movies are subtitled in the theaters in Spanish, we get other American TV networks, and just having the Canal as hub of international business somewhat calls for a standard business language to be used.

These factors have contributed to the widespread use of English here, no doubt.

I would honestly say I speak English roughly 50-55% of the time down here. My friends are also fluent, albeit with a heavier accent than mine (I have none, myself).

[Vegemighty]

Is there any place online which lets you create your own flashcards for chinese characters? That would be useful

[Centurion]

Is there any place online which lets you create your own flashcards for chinese characters? That would be useful

There's a program you can download called Anki that lets you create flashcards that I've seen recommended (I've downloaded and tried it and it seems good but I haven't really used it enough to give it a full endorsement), it also has an Android version (and probably an iPhone version too)

[bigm141414]

Also, check out the Foreign Service Institute's website. It has free learning materials for quite a few languages. Tapes, workbooks, etc. These were developed for new members of the US State Dept. stationed in various parts of the world.

[RussTheAerialist]

I'm working (slowly) through Rosetta Stone Level 1 for Russian. I love the Russian language, and have hopes of going there in the next couple of years for a photography vacation and to train with some crazy hardcore Russian circus performers.

[sdecourcey]

I speak Spanish well. Almost fluently, but not quite. I took two years of it in high school, but I didn't learn much from that...most of what I learned I learned being in Costa Rica, and also I have a lot of close friends who only speak Spanish so they taught me a lot, and I am able to practice on them.

Next I want to learn Swahili and Luganda.

Also, for those of you who are looking to learn a new language, I have two sites that I always recommend: www.busuu.com and www.livemocha.com. Both of these have interactive lessons with photos, audio, and text; online chatting with native speakers; and lots of other cool features. I prefer busuu personally, but both are very fun and helpful.

[Hannibal]

Bigm: Being around Japanese all the time certainly helps. I doubt I'd have gotten as far as I have without that immersion. One of my big flaws as a language learner though, is that I tend to keep myself in an English bubble. Like I said, I need to work on getting out of it more. I want to break out & improve my Japanese as much as I can before I leave in a couple years.

Also, I agree with you the FSI courses. They're pretty good. I tried to learn a bit of German from them once and still remember a lot of what I learned. I only did a couple lessons a few years back, but managed to retain some. Plus it's free. Good quality to cost ratio.

Mpb: Thanks for all the info. Very interesting. I'd be curious to see how Panama stacks up against other countries that have had strong a US military presence. I know the English in Japan is pretty abysmal, and South Korea isn't too much better. I'm sure the cultural and linguistic similarities would be an advantage.

Also, I'm jealous that you've got that bilingual background.

Russ: Do yo like the Rosetta stone program? I didn't like it. Maybe it was my mic, maybe it was my proximity to a busy street, but it wouldn't register my answers properly. I tried the Spanish one once and it kept telling me I mispronounced the word "no," but when I lost my temper after a half dozen tries and told the program to go fuck itself, it said my answer was correct. Not impressed.

Sdecourcey: What were you doing in Costa Rica? And why Swahili and Luganda? Interesting choices.

And I have a general question for those of you who've got a background in German; I'm working on applications to grad school, where I'll be studying archaeology. Every program I'm looking at requires a certain degree of competency in a foreign language related to one's field of study, and since I'm probably going to be focusing on medieval Europe, I reckon German would be the best choice. Aside from FSI, any programs, tips, hints or hacks anyone could recommend for German? I figure I'd like to learn as much as I can now when I have the time to put in extra work on a side quest. I don't want to have to bother learning a language on top of the heavy school work I'll be taking on.

I'd love to be able to just stick with Japanese, but sadly the Japanese archaeology programs are well out of my league. They're either at Japanese schools, where I'd have to pass level 1 of the Japanese language proficiency test to get in and I'm maybe barely at level 3, or at high-level, Ivy League schools in the US, that even if I could get in I wouldn't be able to pay for.

[Centurion]

Russ: Do yo like the Rosetta stone program? I didn't like it. Maybe it was my mic, maybe it was my proximity to a busy street, but it wouldn't register my answers properly. I tried the Spanish one once and it kept telling me I mispronounced the word "no," but when I lost my temper after a half dozen tries and told the program to go fuck itself, it said my answer was correct. Not impressed.

Lol, I recall having a similar experience using Rosetta Stone. It seems that it comes highly recommended until you start digging through some reviews, most of which seem to say it is not very effective and costs way too much.

And I have a general question for those of you who've got a background in German; I'm working on applications to grad school, where I'll be studying archaeology. Every program I'm looking at requires a certain degree of competency in a foreign language related to one's field of study, and since I'm probably going to be focusing on medieval Europe, I reckon German would be the best choice. Aside from FSI, any programs, tips, hints or hacks anyone could recommend for German? I figure I'd like to learn as much as I can now when I have the time to put in extra work on a side quest. I don't want to have to bother learning a language on top of the heavy school work I'll be taking on.

Like I mentioned before I'm learning German at the moment so I'm by no means an authority on the matter but you could have a look at this: http://www.fluentin3months.com/why-german-is-easy/

I've got a copy of it but haven't read through it all just yet. It's not a course so much as it is a guide to help simplify certain aspects of German so it becomes easier to learn. I'm currently also trying the Michel Thomas beginner German course that I learnt about from the forum of that website and it seems very good, I've only done the first chapter so far (about an hour's worth) so I'll withhold full judgement until I'm a bit further in.

[Hannibal]

Like I mentioned before I'm learning German at the moment so I'm by no means an authority on the matter but you could have a look at this: http://www.fluentin3months.com/why-german-is-easy/

I've got a copy of it but haven't read through it all just yet. It's not a course so much as it is a guide to help simplify certain aspects of German so it becomes easier to learn. I'm currently also trying the Michel Thomas beginner German course that I learnt about from the forum of that website and it seems very good, I've only done the first chapter so far (about an hour's worth) so I'll withhold full judgement until I'm a bit further in.

I've seen the Why German Is Easy at Fluent in 3 Months and I've thought about buying it. How far into it are you? I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on it after you finish it. Right now, I just can't see spending $30 for that when there are so many free things out there to try, especially when I've not heard or read any 3rd party reviews. Besides, I'm only a couple lessons into learning the language at the moment. Maybe once I get through the FSI basic course & have a little more grammar and vocab under my belt. He said it's for beginner to intermediate, and right now I'm absolute beginner.

[Garth]

I've just finished an evening course at the university in Beginners Spanish. I really enjoyed it, but in retrospect I really wish I'd worked hard at it from the start. I didn't, and I paid for it as it was difficult catching up once we got into conjugating verbs. I would like to continue though, but it may not be possible as my work looks like they will pay for me to do a part time Masters degree, which would be two evenings a week and I wouldn't be able to fit Spanish and a Masters in. Will see what happens.

One of my best friends has taught himself Esperanto, I'm tempted to have a go at that. It seems very interesting to me, and it's apparently a very easy language to learn.

[dracopervicax]

still wanting to know what Russ thinks about Rosetta stone. I've been thinking about picking it up for Gaelic (Irish).

Has anyone here learned Elvish? I kinda thought about that, too...

[Antiope]

I did French from Pre-school through 12th grade, then got a minor in Latin and Ancient Greek for my Classics major. Right now I'm working on Italian and Spanish - though I'm being relatively lazy about it, I need some time to decompress from school before I can get hardcore about any kind of book learning again. I can functionally read both languages (along with the other Romance offshoots), but I intend to travel to Italy and Spain somewhere in my future, and I enjoy watching futbol, and more often than not, the game I actually want to see is only being broadcast on Spanish language channels. While I can pick up every other word, and I know futbol well enough to know what's going on, I enjoy listening and understanding the color commentary.

I don't know that I have tips, because I think everyone learns language differently. I need structure, so learning grammar is really important to me. Had I been taught French grammar earlier than I was, I would be fluent, and while I'm not fluent in Latin or Greek (I haven't been studying it long enough really) I can speak, read and write them better than a language I spent 15 years of my life learning.

[Centurion]

I've seen the Why German Is Easy at Fluent in 3 Months and I've thought about buying it. How far into it are you? I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on it after you finish it. Right now, I just can't see spending $30 for that when there are so many free things out there to try, especially when I've not heard or read any 3rd party reviews. Besides, I'm only a couple lessons into learning the language at the moment. Maybe once I get through the FSI basic course & have a little more grammar and vocab under my belt. He said it's for beginner to intermediate, and right now I'm absolute beginner.

Honestly I haven't really got very far into it. From what I've skimmed it seems good as extra alongside a leanguage course. It definitely has useful info simplified down about certain aspects of the language that someone might find hard but it is by no means a full language course (and doesn't claim to be). I'm absolutely loving the Michel Thomas course. It's very relaxed, requires no more than listening along and speaking phrases and I've found with the little I've done that it really helps your thought process when it comes to constructing sentences. I'm still only at the beginning but it already feels like it's improved my German