Concerns with Squat & Deadlift Form

[The Tin Man]

Deadlift: I've never deadlifted before, so after watching some youtube videos to get an idea of the form I decided I was going to go to my gym near my work and ask one of the trainers to instruct me/check my form. His example was practically bending over at the waist and using mostly his back. He then watched me try to execute the correct form, and though I tried I know I made some mistakes and he never corrected me. I feel more confident having now watched the Rippletoe videos but there is still apprehension about screwing up my back.

Squat: I've also rarely done squats because in high school I thought the leg press was pretty much the same thing (and I could lift more that way). Of course I've corrected that train of thought but I am still unsure of my form. I started to work out regularly again two weeks ago and have done squats twice. Both times my lower back hurt afterwards. It did hurt more in the way of a muscle being sore from working out that out-and-out pain but it concerned me. Is that normal when starting squats again or a sign I'm doing something wrong? Clearly with my experience with deadlifting I don't trust the trainers at this location (plus he's the freely available one when I'm there).

I want someone to check my form on both of these because they are, as we all know, hugely important. They're also the backbone of the workout plan I've selected (Vertical Jump Bible). This weekend I can go to the other branch of my gym and see if a trainer there can help, but outside of that I'm not sure what to do.

Thoughts?

[SarahAM]

I know with squats you keep your back straight and pretend like your sitting in a chair, sticking your butt out and dropping... and when in the squat position you should be able to wiggle your toes.. all the weight should be in your heels... (Think of how a toddler squats to pick something up, no bending involved at all)

Maybe next time your at the gym ask someone working out if your doing it right or to take a video of you so you can post it on here to get more feedback... The people might look scary but most of the time they love to help out.

[bigm141414]

Starting Strength Wiki has some good pictures of proper form for comparison. You can always post videos and pics here and we can critique.

As for squats, is it a lower back soreness? I remember when I started squatting with weights my upper back was sore because it wasn't used to having a barbell sit there. Lower back may be indicate bad form. You might be doing a good morning out of the bottom which would put stress on your back. General questions: How wide is your stance? Are you sure you are hitting parallel? Are your hips and shoulders rising at the same time?

[The Tin Man]

I'll try to borrow someone's camera to record the actual lift. For squats it is lower back soreness, I've been practicing some bodyweight squats after watching the Rippletoe squat videos and am feeling more comfortable with what I'm doing. I am not positive my hips and shoulders were rising at the same time. My feet are slightly wider than shoulder-width, I am quite sure my thighs were hitting parallel. My thinking is that it has to do with my back angle during, and especially at the bottom of, the squat.

[andygates]

Deadlift: If you use too much back, and you stiff-leg it (like it sounds your trainer was doing), then you'll experience aches in your lower back and you'll feel the bar drifting away from your shins (and away from the nice vertical line it should be tracing in the air). Now, you'll experience the aches well before you explode your spine across the room, so as long as you keep your lower back and belly tight, you're not in great risk of injury. You're at risk of a sucky deadlift, that's all, and that's fixable.

I like the term "crowd the bar" - get in close, the barbell over the middle of your feet, hands fairly close to your thighs so there's no gaps. An open, airy deadlift is often a bad-form one, in my experience.

+1 to getting your phonecam and youtubing it. Works wonders.

[The Tin Man]

andygates, good advice on crowding the bar. One thing I noticed from the videos is I was not doing this at all. Especially at the top and going back down I think I was half-deadlifting, half-shrugging and the bar definitely did not follow a vertical line.

[Guest Carjack]

On squats:

Butt goes back right from the start.

Knees out.

Sit down/back until hip crease is at least even with knees.

Head stays up and back tight. Any looseness and you'll end up leaning forward and forced to tighten your back further to stand erect, which means you need to improve form and maybe flexibility.