Question of push ups/general bodyweight exercises.

[Relosa]

Okay, bit of a newbie question here.

One of the things I've been trying to do to get fit as well as wake up in the morning is do push ups right when I wake up. I do the max amount of reps that I can handle and then go about my day. Is that bad to do everyday? Or would only be bad if I did something like 3 sets of max reps everyday? On top of that, what if I chose to do any body weight routine by just doing a set of max reps everyday?

I figure it wouldn't be a bad thing, but I'm just assuming it. If anybody knows any better I'd appreciate some info!

[MMyers]

It's not necessarily bad if you do it right. I don't know what you want to do for a schedule, but I usually do multiple sets to burning rather than failure, which might put you around 80-90% Max Effort. So no, it's not, but recovery is just as important. The longer you do something like this, the less soreness that will build up over time.

What do you want to accomplish? Strength, Endurance, a mix of both?

[Relosa]

Right now I'm looking for a mix of strength and endurance. Mostly though I'm just looking to get my butt moving one way at a time. I figure I'll stick with body weight exercises for a bit and then pull my dumbbells out in a couple of weeks and start some compound exercises with those. Maybe see what I have in my garage to make some home made gym equipment.

I'm thinking I was gonna wake up and just do push ups or something in the morning everyday. One just to get my body moving, and two because I know they're good for me. And then add in some jogging and walking for cardio. I was gonna do a bit more research before I settle on another work out with weights or something.

[Mitch S]

Hey i do the same thing, Wake up in the morning and do push ups and squats generally.. however i have noticed that on my recovery days, i have a lot of muscle soreness and its really hard to get through the sets.. I'm thinking that once my body becomes more accustomed to strength training the pain will lessen. Because i like doing something when i wake up to get my heart pumping for the day as well...

I don't think it can ever be bad for you.. unless you start exhausting yourself, which i guess is more of a personal judgment call... Personally i only do mild level push ups and body weight squats to start the day.. and then leave the actual strength training/pushing myself hard workouts for the gym. But i am by no means an expert.

[gugi9000]

I would make max efforts everyday. Your muscles need 24-48 hour to rebuild what is broken down. So maybe every second day or something like 3 days a week.

[Guest Carjack]

Yes, every athlete who was able to build muscle without fully recovering it in between exercise, from endurance athletes to third world workers and ancient strongmen, was on steroids.

If you do push ups on two consecutive days, overtraining demons will creep in your window and quietly rip apart your tendons as you sleep.

[MMyers]

Ok, so, aim for a specific number of repetitions and move on to a slightly harder exercise.

An example of something like that could be this:

50 Push-Ups-> 30 Diamond Push-Ups-> 10 One Arm Push-Ups

20 Inverted Rows-> 15 Second Pull-Up Negative-> 10 Pull-Ups

If you want any help designing a plan, just PM me or something, I'll help you get something figured out.

[King_mob]

Yes, every athlete who was able to build muscle without fully recovering it in between exercise, from endurance athletes to third world workers and ancient strongmen, was on steroids.

If you do push ups on two consecutive days, overtraining demons will creep in your window and quietly rip apart your tendons as you sleep.

I feel sarcasm is wholly unnecessary. Sorry. You are correct, bodyweight exercise is something that can happily be done even twice daily, but promoting the idea that recovery is important is a constructive piece of advice.

[Loren Wade]

I feel sarcasm is wholly unnecessary. Sorry. You are correct, bodyweight exercise is something that can happily be done even twice daily, but promoting the idea that recovery is important is a constructive piece of advice.

Hahaha. You don't know Carjack too well yet.

Anyway....

Also, if you're looking for a great bodyweight routine, there's a bunch of us here that follow Convict Conditioning. It's a book with easy to hard progressions for the main bodyweight exercises like squats, pushups, pullups, and leg raises (abs). Worth checking out.

[ebm1224]

personally, i feel a little too stiff to jump right in to something like this before stretching (maybe i'm just old). if it were me, i'd do a few minutes of a warmup when you wake up rather than (or in addition to) the pushups or squats. maybe that's why you're so sore the next day? just my opinion. any exercise you do consistently is better than none

[King_mob]

Hahaha. You don't know Carjack too well yet.

Anyway....

Also, if you're looking for a great bodyweight routine, there's a bunch of us here that follow Convict Conditioning. It's a book with easy to hard progressions for the main bodyweight exercises like squats, pushups, pullups, and leg raises (abs). Worth checking out.

Bah, your probably right - I'm clandestinely posting from work which would explain my less then accommodating sense of humour. I'll lighten up in an hour or so when the ludes kick in

Convict conditioning is a nice progression to follow. Try not to take the whole "i survived maximum security prison with only this routine" posturing too seriously, but the workout itself is very good.

Another site which i was a big fan of in decades of yore, and which i have re-stumbled apon recently, is www.mymadmethods.com which includes exercises and workouts for rope, heavy bag (two items which are easily DIY'd together if you haven't access to weights) and bodyweight moves. Recommended.

[Guest Carjack]

If you feel overworked from a routine, just lighten it up for a few days and recover fully, then build up to a higher training volume from that.

Muscles are bundles of contractile fibers, not an engine that's either ready to run or down for maintenance.

[King_mob]

If you feel overworked from a routine, just lighten it up for a few days and recover fully, then build up to a higher training volume from that.

Muscles are bundles of contractile fibers, not an engine that's either ready to run or down for maintenance.

*Having lightened up considerably now i have a beer in my hand*

Whatever works for you man. HFT is a good protocol for some people and some goals, a good example as you pointed out are endurance athletes, who do maximal effort training daily.

Humour me though, check back with us in 2 to 3 months after doing constant heavy resistance training, i love being proved wrong - i always learn something new.

EDIT: That last comment could be taken as yet more sarcasm, but in honesty thats not how it was intended - i have the germ of an idea for a paper rolling around in my head and i'd like some empirical data, so if people are happy to PM me progression while doing high frequency programs i would be a merry old soul

[jdanger]

EDIT: That last comment could be taken as yet more sarcasm, but in honesty thats not how it was intended - i have the germ of an idea for a paper rolling around in my head and i'd like some empirical data, so if people are happy to PM me progression while doing high frequency programs i would be a merry old soul

Pick a lift, say the squat and squat to max every single day for six months. Pepper in a few backoff sets here and there and do whatever else you want but if you eat and sleep and are still walking around after six months I bet your squat goes up.

Reference: Pretty much all the "Bulgarian" weightlifting systems building monsters since The Butcher came up with the crazy damn thing.

[Relosa]

Thanks for the info and advice everybody! I think I'm gonna stick with my basic ideas for now and once I feel comfortable go ahead and start incorporating more weighted exercises. I'm sure I'll post here and ask for advice on it.

[Loren Wade]

Bah, your probably right - I'm clandestinely posting from work which would explain my less then accommodating sense of humour. I'll lighten up in an hour or so when the ludes kick in

Convict conditioning is a nice progression to follow. Try not to take the whole "i survived maximum security prison with only this routine" posturing too seriously, but the workout itself is very good.

Totally agree.

[King_mob]

Pick a lift, say the squat and squat to max every single day for six months. Pepper in a few backoff sets here and there and do whatever else you want but if you eat and sleep and are still walking around after six months I bet your squat goes up.

Reference: Pretty much all the "Bulgarian" weightlifting systems building monsters since The Butcher came up with the crazy damn thing.

Ah now this is where it gets interesting, the bulgarian systems focused heavily on concentric only movements (the olympic lifts) with only the front squat really having an eccentric component. There are several studies which go into the physiological effects of concentric vs eccentric, and i suspect it is this difference that allowed for the immense volume you see in those methods.

[jdanger]

True but they do however squat to max all the time as well in pretty much every version. Sometimes more than once a day.

[King_mob]

Front squat, and yes almost every day. Pavel Tsatouline recommends a program where you do 2x5 every single day. Chad waterbury has written a whole book on high frequency, heavy weight and high volume exercise. The point is i am not saying "recover or die" just that promoting recovery is not a bad idea. This isnt a mutually exclusive stance to working out at higher volumes though.

I seem be a master at the dark art of derailing threads so ill leave this here, the polar opinions on this board so far over adequate rest are really interesting though, and it has inspired me to do put together the aforementioned article on it.

[Guest Carjack]

Whatever works for you man. HFT is a good protocol for some people and some goals, a good example as you pointed out are endurance athletes, who do maximal effort training daily.

I don't even push high frequency for everyone (only the ones who can get in the gym that often).

Self regulated is the way to go. Train at whatever volume and intensity you can handle, then deload or do a back-off week whenever you need more recovery.

[King_mob]

People are very different in their work and recovery capacity, and your right - some people can do max effort work multiple times a week and thrive from it.

The problem is people sometimes make the common mistake (i have made it myself) of thinking more is more, when in fact less is actually more. Endless hours in the gym, multiple exercises and sessions to failure. Its unnecessary, and possibly even counter productive. Martin Berkhan says it better than i ever could http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html

The caveat being that this all applies to strength training in a singular sense. Conditioning, gymnastic strength, endurance sports, etc etc, well the methodology is markedly different, and justifiably so.

I think people in general need to develop a more patient attitude to strength training if that is what they are training for. Using intermediate training tools such deloading or undulating periodization, for example, to move around the need for recovery is fine for people who have been lifting awhile, but i would argue definitely not required for beginner level lifters (this term applies generally to anyone with a less than 1000lb total and i include myself in that). Recovery doesn't mean your not putting in enough work, or not training as hard as the next guy.

EDIT: anyone have any idea why the little red exclamation mark is riding my post like a cowboy?

[gugi9000]

I feel like I need to recover every day. That passes when I'm out there warming up.

[jdanger]

Front squat, and yes almost every day. Pavel Tsatouline recommends a program where you do 2x5 every single day. Chad waterbury has written a whole book on high frequency, heavy weight and high volume exercise. The point is i am not saying "recover or die" just that promoting recovery is not a bad idea. This isnt a mutually exclusive stance to working out at higher volumes though.

I seem be a master at the dark art of derailing threads so ill leave this here, the polar opinions on this board so far over adequate rest are really interesting though, and it has inspired me to do put together the aforementioned article on it.

Most also back squat daily. Of course there are cycles and a lot of autoreg going on but it's there. It's definitely not for everyone or even anyone who isn't an elite lifter. I'm not sure we're disagreeing on anything. But yeah, we like to derail threads over stuff that's cool to us but of little real use to anyone haha. Go us I guess.

People are very different in their work and recovery capacity, and your right - some people can do max effort work multiple times a week and thrive from it.

The problem is people sometimes make the common mistake (i have made it myself) of thinking more is more, when in fact less is actually more. Endless hours in the gym, multiple exercises and sessions to failure. Its unnecessary, and possibly even counter productive. Martin Berkhan says it better than i ever could http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html

The caveat being that this all applies to strength training in a singular sense. Conditioning, gymnastic strength, endurance sports, etc etc, well the methodology is markedly different, and justifiably so.

I think people in general need to develop a more patient attitude to strength training if that is what they are training for. Using intermediate training tools such deloading or undulating periodization, for example, to move around the need for recovery is fine for people who have been lifting awhile, but i would argue definitely not required for beginner level lifters (this term applies generally to anyone with a less than 1000lb total and i include myself in that). Recovery doesn't mean your not putting in enough work, or not training as hard as the next guy.

EDIT: anyone have any idea why the little red exclamation mark is riding my post like a cowboy?

I agree with everything here. More is not better. Better is better. And in the beginning keep it simple, enjoy the simple gains while they are there. There's plenty of time to get fancy later. I preach this message all the time. Like most smart people in the game will say, people need to realize what 5lbs a week for a year actually adds up to and compare that to the people who've been lifting the same amount of weight or switching programs every two weeks for four years wondering where their results are.

Practice a bit of Occam's Razor and be as parsimonious with training as possible. 5x5's have been popular forever for a reason, the simple stuff works..

[King_mob]

Go us I guess.

Indeed, go team tangent

More is not better. Better is better.

This uber alles.

[zdub]

EDIT: anyone have any idea why the little red exclamation mark is riding my post like a cowboy?

If you click on "Go Advanced" (sounds legit) when posting a reply it lets you select "Post Icons" under the reply message box. Maybe you accidentally clicked it?