Paleo: not noticing any difference.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Okay so Paleo. Love the eating style. but i'm not noticing any differences...its been what bout 3 1/2 weeks and i'm seeing no change physically except my muscle growth which is coming from the weight lifting. I've lost five pounds (which i don't want at all) and i guess some of the extra weight in my midsection is gone but i'm convinced it's because i've been working out. i don't think the diet has had anything to do with it.

This is what i eat.

No dairy. Grains or any of that.

Chicken breasts, pork chops. lots of veggies and like a banana a day. eggs (between 3 and 6 depending on how many i feel like eating). Lots of water.

Am i doing this wrong?

[bigm141414]

Okay so Paleo. Love the eating style. but i'm not noticing any differences...its been what bout 3 1/2 weeks and i'm seeing no change physically except my muscle growth which is coming from the weight lifting. I've lost five pounds (which i don't want at all) and i guess some of the extra weight in my midsection is gone but i'm convinced it's because i've been working out. i don't think the diet has had anything to do with it.

This is what i eat.

No dairy. Grains or any of that.

Chicken breasts, pork chops. lots of veggies and like a banana a day. eggs (between 3 and 6 depending on how many i feel like eating). Lots of water.

Am i doing this wrong?

That is really too short of a time to notice much when switching to a new diet. Things to consider are how you feel. More energy? Lifts feel better? Not as sluggish as before?

[Dio]

Here's what I read: I have lost over-all mass, reduced fat, and have been able to build muscle and get stronger, but I don't see a difference.

What are you expecting to see? Have you done a similar weight-training regiment and have seen the exact same results? It could be that all of this is from your weight training, or it could be that your diet is enabling your weight training. An empirical study (we are nerds here after all) would be to continue to hard-core follow your progress for the next 2 and a half weeks (to finish a 6 week cycle) and then to do another 6 weeks on your old diet. Compare the results.

Diet is 80% of fitness, true, but everyone is different. Paleo may not be a life-changer for you like it is for some of us. Your body may be able to perfectly handle and metabolize a carb diet, and a low-carb diet feels no different. It's important to experiment, record, and ultimately make the decision that works best for yourself and your fitness goals. The rest of us can only speak to what works for us.

Good luck!

Note: with the five pounds loss and smaller midsection, I know for a lot of guys we seem to lose weight almost instantly. I need to talk to more people, but I'm pretty sure it's bloating/water-weight that is associated with the process of breaking down glycogen and when you don't use it for a while, it goes away. Which means that you didn't lose anything that you actually needed (no muscle loss). This is just a theory and I'd like confirmation from others if they know more about it.

[Knightwatch]

Well, if you're getting results, even if just from the training, and you "love" the eating style...what's the problem?

Or, more to the point, what did you want or expect?

[Guest Snake McClain]

That is really too short of a time to notice much when switching to a new diet. Things to consider are how you feel. More energy? Lifts feel better? Not as sluggish as before?

I do have a ton more energy and not sluggish at all. i actually have more energy now than i know what to do with. Looking at finding activities (probably martial arts/cardio) on non lifting days. Just because i'm going crazy not doing anything.

Well, if you're getting results, even if just from the training, and you "love" the eating style...what's the problem?

i guess i expected more definition in my body. especially in the mid section. yeah some fat or extra gut has gone away but i am not seeing any difference anywhere except my bulking muscles. so no real definition. and in other threads it's been discussed that i'm probably not eating enough protein in general so i should not be gaining (even though muscle gain + definition is what i want). So i am just confused I guess. I'm just not seeing the extra fat around my midsection shred off. I'm not going to stop this diet because i like it. I just have no idea what i'm missing here.

Or, more to the point, what did you want or expect?

[Guest Snake McClain]

I sorta screwed up the above quote. my intended response is right in the middle of it. i'm apparently retarded.

[King_mob]

I am not a critic of paleo by any stretch, and as we cook communally in my house and my house mate is paleo i end up eating it fairly often, but i do think unless you have a real gluten intolerance you want see any drastic changes. I know i didn't. My aforementioned flat mate is very gluten intolerant, so obviously the mileage varies.

One point worth making however is this - paleo relies on unprocessed whole foods, and plenty of veg. It IS one of the healthiest ways to eat, so that in itself is a positive effect which, although subtle, is definitely there.

[kahn265]

Weight loss is likely a combination of weight lifting and diet change.

That being said, it appears you have a lean diet. If you are really worried about energy and weight, then I'd recommend the following changes to try to give you a calorie surplus:

1. Add more fruit - at least 2-3 pieces of fruit per day.

2. Add more fats - have an avocado on the side with your chicken and walk around with a HUGE bag of nuts.

My understanding with Paleo is you will lose fat (I will find out how this works for me in February when I have my next body fat measurement) which would account for loss around your midsection.

After all, as Steve has pointed out in "The Beginner's Guide to the Paleo Diet"

Because these foods are so nutritious and filling, it’s almost impossible to overeat. No seriously, I’ve spent the past four weeks TRYING to overeat on the Paleo Diet to gain some healthy weight, and I can’t do it! I’ve been drinking shots of olive oil (seriously), carrying around a comically oversized bag of nuts with me everywhere I go, and drinking enough Primal shakes to choke a horse along with eating other normal primal meals…and I’ve lost weight.

[aj_rock]

So you're losing fat... gaining some muscle... all while not being perfect with your diet... Am I getting this right?

You're complaining about not seeing fast enough results? It's gonna take a while bro.

Come back when you ACTUALLY have a problem

[m00se]

i don't think the diet has had anything to do with it

Maybe, maybe not. As has been said, you can't prove this either way until you start lifting whilst eating non-paleo. I'd be willing to bet my boots that it is making a difference.

Perhaps the bigger point to make is: who cares? Do you? If you're feeling better, getting stronger, losing fat and enjoying yourself then it's all good.

[Dio]

What's your starting BFP? You won't really see the shred until you've gotten your numbers into single digits, from what I've heard.

Many people (including our beloved rebel leader Steve and actor Ryan Reynolds) recommend thinking about it as a two step: bulk up muscle, slim down to look ripped, repeat. From Steve in his superhero workout article on RR:

Ryan had it down to a science and treated his body like a machine, getting the exact amount of nutrients necessary to gain mostly muscle and not fat. My guess is that he probably spent the first four months putting on 15 lbs (10 of which is muscle, 5 of which is fat), and then the last two months cutting the fat, leaving just the muscle. If you’re going to gain weight, this is how it’ll happen.

I've personally found it's really hard to both drop fat fast AND gain muscle fat. I've been having to prioritize one over the other lately. I'm a LONG way from ripped abs, though.

[Brometheus]

Am I doing it all wrong? Potentially...

Sounds like you're getting decent results. Understand that fat from your midsection is usually the last to go. And your weightlifting could be adding muscle there, in which case it'll be q while before you see a change.

I'm not a proponent of nuts. Too easy to eat too many and get a lot of issues with digestion and having too many omega 6 fats.

If you're really looking for a change, I'd suggest looking at the "whole 30 guide", "the paleo solution" or "the primal blueprint" to really dial in your diet.

Your diet looks to be too low in fat (cook w/butter and coconut oil) and protein (eat steak and bacon), and I wonder at the point of the banana if you're trying to lose weight. If you need a way to recover from workouts I would eat a sweet potato before a banana...

Really though, paleo is NOT a diet where the primary goal is weight loss. Yeah, it happens because your body is healing yourself, but the primary purpose of paleo is to be healthy. Other stuff follows that. So dial in your sleep, get blackout blinds, eat right, play, lift, have fun, and simply stop fucking worrying about the fat loss.

Oh, and take some measurements and photos of yourself. It would be easier to help you if you had before and after measurements, photos, calorie estimations of your foods, actual portion size ideas, and macronutrient ratios of your food...not to mention how you feel, sleep, etc. Judging just based on your energy levels I'd say it's working, and stop complaining about the side benefits of paleo.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I really don't need to lose weight except to define. i actually want to get to the 215 range. right now i'm down five pounds from my 190 so now i have to gain more to get where i want. Granted i have like a year to do this but I'm just not noticing a real change. it's been what...a month? Just muscle growth. No fat shredding. but yeah it could be that when my bfp gets down to the single digit range is when i'll notice. i hadn't though of that but i'm not seeing any significant changes. My energy levels are great but i probably should eat more honestly. i find myself hungry a lot (as i'm a bit poor its hard to have food on hand whenver i like).

[Guest Snake McClain]

There is a photo on my six week challenge thread that is a pretty good indication of how i'm looking now. i'm a bit bulkier in the shoulders and chest but not any trimmer.

yeah yeah i know. double post. i don't think before i type.

[Knightwatch]

I really don't need to lose weight except to define. i actually want to get to the 215 range. right now i'm down five pounds from my 190 so now i have to gain more to get where i want. Granted i have like a year to do this but I'm just not noticing a real change. it's been what...a month? Just muscle growth. No fat shredding.

That doesn't even make sense.

Added Muscle Mass + 5 Pounds Lost = Fat Shedding.

Also, why 215? I think you'd be surprised at how much muscle and strength you'll have to gain, if you're also convinced you've got weight to lose around the midsection and such. Look, I'm as big a fan of the ADULT MALE > 200 POUNDS meme as anyone, but realistically, it takes a while to build up to carrying around that much lean muscle. You'd be surprised at how big and lean a lot of 190 pounders are.

CF Games winner Rich Froning, who's around 195.

Not exactly frail. Imagine another 20 pounds of muscle on him. That would be large. To be perfectly honest, you may not get there in a year, even, not if you're worried about a rippling core or something. This is a long road, man, so buckle in. It'll be worth it, though. Ya just have to have patience.

[jdanger]

I like the exercise of having people think about steak when considering lean mass. Oh you want to gain 15 lbs of muscle? Ok go to the grocery store and buy 15 1lb steaks. Imagine putting all that on your body (beware: some people might enjoy this exercise a little too much). Not that anything is impossible but it's going to take, you guessed it, time.

[Guest Snake McClain]

That doesn't even make sense.

Added Muscle Mass + 5 Pounds Lost = Fat Shedding.

Also, why 215? I think you'd be surprised at how much muscle and strength you'll have to gain, if you're also convinced you've got weight to lose around the midsection and such. Look, I'm as big a fan of the ADULT MALE > 200 POUNDS meme as anyone, but realistically, it takes a while to build up to carrying around that much lean muscle. You'd be surprised at how big and lean a lot of 190 pounders are.

CF Games winner Rich Froning, who's around 195.

Not exactly frail. Imagine another 20 pounds of muscle on him. That would be large. To be perfectly honest, you may not get there in a year, even, not if you're worried about a rippling core or something. This is a long road, man, so buckle in. It'll be worth it, though. Ya just have to have patience.

The reason i'm shooting for that weight range specifically is because of wrestling. for people to take you really seriously in the business you simply can't be less than 200lbs. They just shrug you off like you don't matter. Granted that if i'm anywhere near the 200 pound mark then ability will probably carry me the rest of the way. Really 200 would be good enough to put me in the "super jr." class.

[aj_rock]

Then you're not gonna be cut, ripped, jacked, etc. You can have his muscle mass, but plus 20 pounds of fat. Which is fine, when you think about it; some sports like wrestling simply need the extra leverage. That 20 pounds also wouldn't look that bad on that amount of muscle mass. Think NFL linebacker.

[Vegemighty]

from my understanding, those with a decent waist line and generally good health don't have many physical benefits from paleo when they switch over. But why are you doing this? In the long run, you'll be healthier and more active. You're still young, and healthy, the years of physical and nutritional neglect havent done you harm. Stay with it, and they never will.

[Brometheus]

The reason i'm shooting for that weight range specifically is because of wrestling. for people to take you really seriously in the business you simply can't be less than 200lbs. They just shrug you off like you don't matter. Granted that if i'm anywhere near the 200 pound mark then ability will probably carry me the rest of the way. Really 200 would be good enough to put me in the "super jr." class.

If you're doing this to prove something to other people I would suggest really looking at why you want to do this. That is NOT sustainable in my opinion. I only met success because I was willing to do what I want, for reasons I want. And I built a support team to get me there.

I appreciate this is a sport, and not a personal reason, but even better to realize that you are given a body from God. You need to work around the limiting factors due to genetics or lifestyle choices. Paleo is a good way to get there, but gaining weight? It's hard.

Really though? I'd prove to people that I'm a badass regardless of the weight. Yeah, extra leverage is nice. But you're talking about a significant mass gain if that's where you're at. Which can be very difficult if you're on a budget.

If you're serious about gaining weight, I'd say a gram of protein per pound of body mass (and make sure to eat 12 eggs a day as part of that). Or a gallon of milk, but that can make it really hard to lean out. Really though, it's about adding a ton of weight to your squats, deadlifts, and eating a ton of food. Go EAT! NOW!

http://cliftonharski.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/big-ass-delicious-meals/

http://whole9life.com/2011/08/clean-mass-gain/

[Guest Snake McClain]

from my understanding, those with a decent waist line and generally good health don't have many physical benefits from paleo when they switch over. But why are you doing this? In the long run, you'll be healthier and more active. You're still young, and healthy, the years of physical and nutritional neglect havent done you harm. Stay with it, and they never will.

I agree. For the long term benefits I'm going to stick with it pretty strictly.

If you're doing this to prove something to other people I would suggest really looking at why you want to do this. That is NOT sustainable in my opinion. I only met success because I was willing to do what I want, for reasons I want. And I built a support team to get me there.

I appreciate this is a sport, and not a personal reason, but even better to realize that you are given a body from God. You need to work around the limiting factors due to genetics or lifestyle choices. Paleo is a good way to get there, but gaining weight? It's hard.

Really though? I'd prove to people that I'm a badass regardless of the weight. Yeah, extra leverage is nice. But you're talking about a significant mass gain if that's where you're at. Which can be very difficult if you're on a budget.

If you're serious about gaining weight, I'd say a gram of protein per pound of body mass (and make sure to eat 12 eggs a day as part of that). Or a gallon of milk, but that can make it really hard to lean out. Really though, it's about adding a ton of weight to your squats, deadlifts, and eating a ton of food. Go EAT! NOW!

http://cliftonharski.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/big-ass-delicious-meals/

http://whole9life.com/2011/08/clean-mass-gain/

There is a personal reason I'm doing this too. i simply want to be stronger. i want to be as a pro wrestler (remember i'm talking wwe stuff here) that middle range of strength and agility. the 200 range is where I need to be simply to perform at the level i WANT to perform at. I want to be able to go into a match with any sized guy and it be believable that I can contend. if you look at wrestlers...even guys like Shawn Michaels he never broke the 225 range and he was a "small' wrestler. Now there are guys who are 185 and 190 but..i dunno. I just want to look, feel and perform as best as i can. I've been eating about 3 or 4 eggs a day and i've considered the DEAD (dozen eggs a day) diet. I've been told the 1g of protein per pound. right now financially it's not doable. i'll have to seriously alter my budget for this. It can be done though and it's not a big thing.

I've also considered getting that liquid egg whites stuff. would you reccomend this?

Also I want to say thanks to everyone who always answers my questions and gives input. It is appreciated (especially in a world where no one gives a crap about what I do on a day to day basis). it's nice to go somewhere and just talk. thanks yo. *rap hands*

[Guest Carjack]

As most of the regular readers know, The Arthur Saxon Trio was composed of three brothers, Arthur, Hermann, and Kurt. They were Germans and of the three, Kurt and Hermann are still alive in Germany. Most of the information in this article I gleaned from a correspondence of several years with Kurt Saxon. In addition to being a partner in the act, Kurt had another job: he was chief cook and bottle washer for the Saxon brothers. ".....all three of us were strong eaters," he informed me; a remark which seems to be an understatement of the truth as the reader will probably agree after learning of their gastronomic feats.

For breakfast they ate 24 eggs and 3 pounds of smoked bacon; porridge with cream, honey, marmalade and tea with plenty of sugar. At three o'clock they had dinner: ten pounds of meat was consumed with vegetables (but not much potatoes); sweet fruits, raw or cooked, sweet cakes, salads, sweet puddings, cocoa and whipped cream and very sweet tea. Supper, after the show, they had cold meat, smoked fish, much butter, cheese and beer. Following this they had a chat and at one o'clock went to bed.

At nine o'clock in the morning they arose and always had a cold rub-down over the whole body; if possible they would have a shower bath and a massage. It was this way that Kurt learned massaging which helped him very much, in later years, when he became an instructor and masseur.

I once wrote a rather long article, about the Saxons, in YOUR PHYSIQUE magazine, April, May and June (1947) issues. Kurt put his stamp of approval on the information contained therein. Concerning Arthur's much talked about capacity for drinking, he said: "About Arthur's drinking, this was mostly for advertisement; most of the time he drank beer, very seldom spirits and then only when Hermann and I were not with him. We never missed a show, he always could lift his big barbell and do all of his other feats in the act." The Saxons did have a "health drink" which I presume they concocted themselves. The ingredients were dark lager beer (or Dublin stout) mixed with Holland gin, the yolk of an egg and plenty of sugar. "It is a very good but strong drink" was the Saxon opinion, "but, if you are not used to it you will get dizzy very quickly." It seems to me that one would have to be a very strong man in the first place, in order to drink it.

Since diet, exercise and manner of living of outstanding strength stars and physical culturists are always of more than passing interest, I am devoting much of this article to the eating habits of the Saxons. This is not offered as a model diet; it is merely recorded here for the interest it may hold. Some of their dietary habits were not in keeping with modern knowledge on the subject. It has been my experience though, that healthy, robust weight-lifters get away with more dietary and gastronomic acrobatics than most people-and live to tell of it.

In their childhood, breakfast, for the Saxons, consisted of a thick soup made from white flour, rolls or white bread with butter or marmalade. On week-days dinner was at one o'clock; there was no soup, but instead, vegetables of all kinds, cooked or steamed, with fat on them, and some potatoes; after this, raw or cooked fruits. Other days they had green beans, white beans, peas and all kinds of food like this and rice cooked with milk and plenty of sugar. This was varied at other times by having salted herring that had been watered for 24 hours and eaten raw with boiled potatoes; there was also pickled cucumbers and raw onions with a little vinegar and plenty of oil; they had milk or sweet cream made by their mother. Salads and celery were also part of their meals, particularly in the summer when they had salads with plenty of oil on them. Dinner was usually followed with fruits or sweet cakes made from white flour and sometimes, berries on top of the cakes. They were very fond of these. There was also plenty of mushrooms eaten raw or fried with fat; their mother used to go out in the morning and pick about 10 to 12 pounds of these in the fields. She also used to make big cakes, 24" by 36", and spread with butter, or beaten egg whites, sugar and chocolate. The was often eaten with apples. At dinner time, there was usually nothing to drink but plain water. Other meals included soup, black German bread, butter or lard, cheese, smoked fish, raw cucumbers and radishes and onions. There was never any kind of meat on weekdays except for their father's meal; their mother did not care for it and it was only when they went to England, as professional performers, that the Saxon brothers learned to eat meat every day; the meat in England was very good.

Although they had other foods, the things mentioned were their favorite foods. On Sundays they had a little meat, and for breakfast, real coffee. Other mornings they had coffee made from burned corn. There was also a special kind of beer of which they were very fond -- this was made from wheat, was sweet and contained but very little alcohol.

Later, in England, as performers, Hermann and Kurt were partial to sweet foods and sugar. They tried very hard to gain weight but in spite of sweets and a terrific appetite, sometimes consuming one pound of butter between them, they failed to gain weight; sometimes only a few pounds which they could not hold. Arthur, the oldest, did not care for sweets and butter; even as a child he did not care for butter. Instead of butter he would use the lard from pork. Hermann and Kurt, in addition to other things, could make two pounds of marmalade and two quarts of very sweet cocoa disappear at one meal. Kurt was the heaviest eater of the three and for breakfast alone he could consume 24 eggs cooked in one-half pound of butter.

Their three o'clock dinner consisted mostly of roasted or fried meat, beef, pork or veal, not much potatoes, plenty of salads with oil just as in their childhood. Sometimes they had vegetables, but always lean meat. Every day they had pudding-yorkshire, rice, sago, etc., but very sweet. Then there was always raw or cooked fruits and nothing to drink. Sometimes, on one day during the week, they roasted poultry, goose, chicken, or turkey. "Many times I ate an 11 pound goose alone," Kurt informed me. One day during the week they had fried or boiled fish, plenty of butter and toast but no potatoes. At six o'clock they had "tea"-this was mostly raw minced meat with raw onions, German bread and plenty of butter; sometimes sweet cakes and coffee were substituted. Their late supper included herrings (when they could get them) and eaten in the same manner they had become accustomed to in childhood. The herrings were sometimes used in salad form; they made their own mayonnaise with raw whipped eggs and oil. There never was any whisky or brandy at home. Even as children they did not care for milk and as men they developed no taste for it. At "tea" time they very often had whipped cream. They did not care for boiled eggs, instead, they went big for poached eggs with plenty of butter.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28966&page=1

You can eat only three eggs? Seriously?

[Guest Snake McClain]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28966&page=1

You can eat only three eggs? Seriously?

I was wondering where you were going with this article. lol. No no no. i can eat WAAAAY more than 3. i just don't. I didn't say i wouldn't either.

[Guest Snake McClain]

It isn't unheard of for wrestlers to be below the 200 mark and some of my favorites actually are. It's about strength and agility not size. I know that. I'll just push harder and harder and be where i end up.

[Guest Carjack]

I was wondering where you were going with this article. lol. No no no. i can eat WAAAAY more than 3. i just don't. I didn't say i wouldn't either.

What I mean is, you can be satisfied at only three eggs?

I always have to cook five, preferably with a piece of Polish sausage, and I have to go for some milk or cottage cheese after. Three eggs is starvation paleo.

The article = bulk buy affordable high calorie foods and eat a shitload. High saturated fat, high protein.