i hate to beat a dead horse but i'm gonna re-ask a question

[ebm1224]

so i, like most women, was brough up with the idea that, to stay or become leaner/stronger/better looking naked, i needed to lift lighter weights for more reps. and that if i did heavier weights and lowers reps, i would get a bulkier look.

then i started reading more (including nf) and met (both online and in person) some women who had lost weight/gotten in better shape by lifting heavier weights. and i learned that, due to hormone makeup/genetics, women could do heavy weight/low reps without fear of looking too bulky.

cut to a few weeks ago when i bought a few personal training sessions at my new gym.

yesterday, during a session, the trainer recommened i do higher reps (12-20) while he recommended my boyfriend (we were doing a combined training session) do slightly slower reps (10-15). i approached him about this discrepancy briefly (i didn't want to spend my training time arguing) and he said that, in his 12 years of experience, he has found that, when he does higher weights/lower reps with women, they to dislike the results they get, saying that the look is too bulky.

so what gives? is this just an example of there being many ways to skin a cat?

also, while i'm at it, at what point does lifting become "heavy" and do reps become "low"? is it possible that there is a happy medium here? and is it really important to choose one method over another?

thanks in advance!

[sylph]

Women THINK that they are getting too bulky when in reality, they are just hanging on to too much body fat.

Part of it depends on your goals. Want to get stronger? Generally do lower reps.. Set of 1-5. Want to grow muscle? Sets of 6-12. Above twelve is typically endurance training.

that said, YMMV. For some folks, the have specific muscle groups that respond 'better' for their goals at different rep ranges... Biceps that grow when hit with sets of >20, etc.

Generally though, in my experience, if a woman thinks shes too bulky, shes really too fat.

[spezzy]

if you really want to, try them both out and see what you like. though i think its a mental thing, if a woman lifts a lot and she sees a muscle she freaks out.

15-20 reps is kind of ridiculously high though.

i got zero results from lighter weights lots of reps. zero. and i was doing like, 12-15.

i got amazing results from lifting heavy.

and in case we're wondering if we have different meanings of bulky:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260164_634562135733_50200723_33493624_4485412_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/310611_652621863893_50200723_33726843_230399065_n.jpg

the second one being PRE crossfit when all i had done for 6 months was lift heavy, nothing above 5 reps. Ever.

i WILL admit that sometimes mid lift (like, when I was holding 350lbs) I look at the picture and think I look large. But I have pictures of me from later that day and I look normal again - its just when youre lifting that heavy at that very moment EVERY MUSCLE in your body is engaged so youre bound to look bigger (for that very moment)

[Guest guest4729]

What has worked best for me has been higher weights and lower reps.

What I consider "higher" or heavier weights is 5lbs below the heaviest weight I can stand to do.

What I consider "lower" reps is 5. If I can do more than 5 reps with ease I move up to a higher weight.

I've noticed that if I can do a ton of reps I just don't "feel" it. I feel like I'm not doing enough and I need to work harder.

[Waldo]

While I can't speak specifically about women, size is definitely hormone related. Even most guys aren't going to get very big if they lift heavy for a while. They will get bigger than women will, but to really get meathead bulk either requires genetics that only a small % of males have or chemical enhancement.

? - Does anybody know anybody that thought they were too muscular?

[MatthewD]

I have heard a few girls that thought that but that is because I teach high school and I hear more than my fair share of body dysmorphia statements during a weekly basis. I don't remember if I have ever heard a guy say that thought.

It is all about perception and the "normal" body image that seems to have been pushed on everyone through ads and other venues.

[Loren Wade]

Honestly, Spezzy is right. It's a complete fallacy. I hate to say it but it doesn't sound like you found a very good trainer. The low weight high reps is a terrible fallacy.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/strength-training-women/#axzz1ismunJrB

A good article.

[wildross]

As a relatively strong guy (315# in the bench, 305# in the deadlift), I don't look "bulky" (except for the extra fat on my gut). (Granted I'm pretty large in the shoulders to start with). I've added 90# to my bench press in the last year without buying bigger shirts, and over 100# to the deadlift without out growing my pants legs. It takes a lot of specific work and diet to get "bulky". I've done basically nothing except 5 rep sets of all the heavy exercises for the last 6 months. I do some "isolation" exercies on the off days, but even there when I get to 10 reps, I add weight. The only thing I do more than 10 of is pushups (and soon pullups).

Total myth.

[Zorch]

While I can't speak specifically about women, size is definitely hormone related. Even most guys aren't going to get very big if they lift heavy for a while. They will get bigger than women will, but to really get meathead bulk either requires genetics that only a small % of males have or chemical enhancement.

? - Does anybody know anybody that thought they were too muscular?

Also, to truly get "bulky", one has to eat enough to get there. To build and maintain serious bulk(even with favorable genetics and uhh, chemical "aid") requires a massive food intake - this applies to both men and women. Unless you're actively eating a ton in an effort to build mass, you're unlikely to even approach any kind of bulky, over-muscled look.

['Roos]

*shrugs* I'd say that trainer's experience is probably a result of women seeing what they expect to see, and freaking out. Even when I was doing intense weights training via sailing (pull on this thing that won't budge, ever. Not pull harder. Now pull with EVERY FIBRE OF YOUR BEING. Now climb that hill.) I never, ever got bulky. And I say that as a person who puts on muscle relatively easily. You just have to get your muscle to eat your fat, and you'll never get 'bulky'. *shrugs* That said, if you put on muscle but don't lose fat, you will get 'bulkier'. Because there will be more of you.

[scott82962]

Honestly, Spezzy is right. It's a complete fallacy. I hate to say it but it doesn't sound like you found a very good trainer. The low weight high reps is a terrible fallacy.

This

[ebm1224]

honestly, it's hard for me to believe someone who's made his living for over a decade helping people to get into better shape just doesn't know what he's talking about.

on a slightly different note, what type of lower body workouts do yall recommend? i'm getting a little bored with lunges and squats.

[Loren Wade]

He's made a living giving workouts to women that think that's what they want.

Here's some resources.

http://www.ironcult.com/?p=245

http://www.turbulencetraining.com/high-rep-low-weight-workout.shtml

http://exercise.about.com/od/exerciseworkouts/ss/strengthmyths_2.htm

Fact is, high weight, low reps makes you lean and strong. Look at spezzy afterall.

[spezzy]

honestly, it's hard for me to believe someone who's made his living for over a decade helping people to get into better shape just doesn't know what he's talking about.

on a slightly different note, what type of lower body workouts do yall recommend? i'm getting a little bored with lunges and squats.

I can believe it.

But if you don't then try different things and figure out what works for you.

And deadlifts.

[alexgator]

You just have to get your muscle to eat your fat' date=' and you'll never get 'bulky'. *shrugs* That said, if you put on muscle but don't lose fat, you will get 'bulkier'. Because there will be more of you.[/quote']

This. How many women stick with a personal training for an extended period of time? Not many. He probably has women come in for a few sessions. They gain muscle. But they're eating is still shit so they don't lose fat. So they get bigger. Not many people stick with one trainer for a year or more and give themselves time shed the fat over the new muscle. It's not so much that he doesn't know what he's talking about, but his "data" is skewed.

[Oogiem]

honestly, it's hard for me to believe someone who's made his living for over a decade helping people to get into better shape just doesn't know what he's talking about.

What he does know is how to get people to continue to pay him money to train them in the way they think is right. That may or may not have anything to do with the reality of what will actually work for you or be better in the long run for you. THink on this, if you do low weights an high reps you never make much progress so you will continue to be a customer of the trainer.

[spezzy]

This. How many women stick with a personal training for an extended period of time? Not many. He probably has women come in for a few sessions. They gain muscle. But they're eating is still shit so they don't lose fat. So they get bigger. Not many people stick with one trainer for a year or more and give themselves time shed the fat over the new muscle. It's not so much that he doesn't know what he's talking about, but his "data" is skewed.

Or how many people do stick with it because they haven't achieved their goal? And the trainer keeps telling them it's their diet, when really, if they just had them lift heavy things...

[weirdquark]

I'd believe that there are women who would rather be thin than muscular. And what "too bulky" means will vary from person to person. The author of this article did an informal poll over the internet, and what the statistics show is that on average, women don't want to have visible muscles and think that having any muscle definition at all is "too bulky".

So your trainer is right that "most women" won't be happy with the results that they get from lifting heavy and will think that they look too bulky. Personally, for me to get to a level that I'd consider "too bulky" would involve way more commitment to my training and diet than I want to bother with, not to mention taking drugs or hormones. But whether or not you'd be unhappy with the sort of results you'd get by lifting heavy weights for a few reps depends on what sort of look you're going for.

[CaptainCat]

Lifting high reps at low weight produces a cardio effect and makes them feel more powerful in the small way that's fairly pleasant.

Most women seem to be aiming at "wisp" body type than "athlete" body type.

I salute the ladies who actually want to get fit, rather than just get small. :-/

[ebm1224]

well i only have one more session with him anyway. i guess i'll see what he does for this last session. in our previous sessions he was working with my boyfriend and i at once and we have very different experience levels and he has some joint issues. in our most recent session, the trainer told me that he would likely recommend alot of "movement" for my training one-on-one. not exactly sure what that means. but i guess i just have to focus on what i want and try out different things.

[chammy]

You could always say "Sorry, I don't want what the 'average woman' does, give me the big boy routine".

At least, that's what I would say. With air quotation marks.

[bprime]

It's called blind leading the blind.

Don't listen to him. Listen to us. Most trainers aren't worth the air they breathe. And this guy is a perfect example

[Grosby]

I was under the impression that more reps at a lower weight was more conducive to weight loss as it's more of a cardio workout with dumbbells (Or whatever) which is kind of what I'm doing for weight loss and a timid, shy introduction to strength training/meat head zone of the gym (it's okay, I have New Rules on the way, I'll take one training wheel off soon!)

Whereas heavier weights is better for muscle gain (and therefore fat loss)

But I could be wrong.. very wrong.

[Pat G]

I salute the ladies who actually want to get fit, rather than just get small. :-/

*SALUTE*

All this high weight low rep stuff, is proven to work combined with the diet but... how many womenfolk actually would do that (for various reasons)? i'm not sure...

Actually...Ladies, please provide me something i can say or do to get my wife motivated to do heavy lifting with me.

[chammy]

Actually...Ladies, please provide me something i can say or do to get my wife motivated to do heavy lifting with me.

That's -all- on her. If she has no interest it's going to be hard to convince her that you think it would be a good idea.