Welp, here goes... [May tag as NSFW][looking for help researching]

[Hrunter]

I'm really not sure where to post any of this. [Mods?]

Honestly looking for information or help researching, not interested in flames/trolling.

Really nervous about getting a negative response to this.

Can work with PMs for privacy, if necessary.

While there is a variety of topics, my current curiosity centers around Trans*/transition fitness.

There are many things over the internet suggesting many different things for Trans* folk.

I'd love to get the opinion of the Nerd Fitness community, as no resources I've found thus far mention Paleo.

And definitely don't have that wonderful Nerd Fitness mentality.

While I am looking for resources to address my situation, I am looking for information for m/any directions of transition.

For those that are familiar, I would like to acknowledge that

Yes, Trans* fitness can be similar to fitness for gender congruent persons.

However, Trans* people's health and fitness needs may evolve as they undergo various degrees of transition.

---

Definitions:

For those unfamiliar, a Trans* (as an umbrella term) person is any person who identifies as:

• being of a (whole, part, or concurrently) different gender(s) than their biological, assigned at birth sex.
  
• intending to express or behave as a person of a different sex than that assigned to them at birth.
  
• Intersex (anatomical and/or chromosomal)
  

Transition, in context, can be defined as: The process or period wherein one might:

• change their name, corresponding legal documents, expression and/or behaviours to align with their identity
  
• go through initial experiences living as a member of the sex/gender aligned with their identity
  
• take hormones to alter various dimorphic traits
  
• having surgery to align with identity
  
• other unlisted changes
  

Please note, the above are not comprehensive definitions.

For the purposes of the information I am collecting, I would like to define "Transition(al) fitness" as:

• exercise benefiting desired physical changes during transition
  
• fitness to develop appearances that may assist in 'passing'
  
• altering diet to support desired hormonal changes (1)
  
• other items yet to be added
  

I am looking for information fitting the above definition (and others that are reasonably trans* related) for persons identifying as/transitioning (to):

• Female-to-Male
  
• Male-to-Female
  
• Intersex
  
• Neutrois
  
• any Trans* Identities not yet listed not yet listed, whose intended transition affects physical health
  

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If any more information is necessary to clarify the area of research, I will post it here.

Again, looking for serious discussion, preferably with a pro-trans* mindset.

While I am able to educate on some aspects of Trans* health, I may defer to other resources.

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To do list:

things to do with hormone supplementation (in Cis- and Trans* fitness aspects)

Dig more into Natural transition. Natural Testosterone

[Atalan]

Whether the individual is taking hormones at the time they are working out would change a lot about how they build lean body mass. So, I suspect exercises and goals would differ quite a bit with or without hormones. But, I am far from an expert.

[Hrunter]

Absolutely! This is one of the considerations I'm looking to investigate.

While I have yet to find out which Trans*-identities might opt for hormonal treatment, the more obvious ones (to me) would be...

Female bodied persons taking testosterone and possibly estrogen blockers

Male bodied persons taking estrogen, progestogens, antiandrogens

Adult intersex persons taking testosterone

Adult intersex persons taking estrogen

Again, definitely not exhaustive by any means. If anyone knows I've missed something, please let me know so I can add to the list!

There is also hormone supplementation, which I'd like to eventually cover.

Discussion for this is already on the boards and if not, isn't as likely to be met with unease.

I'll still put it on my to do list, however!

[catspaw]

I'm not actually sure what your question is, Hrunter.

There are several FTMs (and I know of one MTF) in my gym, and I think that the same fitness rules apply to them as anyone else:

- If you want to gain muscle, eat more, lift heavy

- If you want to gain fat, eat more, don't lift

- If you want to lose muscle, eat less, don't lift

- If you want to lose fat, eat less, lift heavy

Clearly having more male hormones (whether by injection or nature) is going to cause faster muscle growth, but diet and fitness should be the same regardless of sex or gender.

[aj_rock]

Unfortunately though, diet and fitness GOALS differ vastly between genders. I see far more female marathon runners than male, which requires a different set of training parameters entirely. Other endurance heavy sports, like long track, cycling, etc. all would benefit negatively from heavy lifting.

But diet especially does change drastically between males and females, as hormonal patterns cause different metabolic adaptations, meaning that women usually have a harder fight to lose fat on their hands.

The way I would look at it is, what is the current hormonal pattern? If a person, through native hormone production + hormone supplementation is currently more or less test/estro heavy, then you can depend on them reacting to their training in line with the gender their hormones are emulating.

My only reaction thusly would be to take care of any fitness goals while in an androgynous state. If going MTF, get fit, then do your trans. If FTM, work at it after. Just because guys do have an inherent advantage.

[Guest Snake McClain]

i find this topic incredibly interesting and wish I had something to add.

[andygates]

I have one ftm-on-hormones friend whose stated body-goal was to look like Brando in Streetcar. He got a big boost when going onto the male hormones, and was headed that way in good order until the couple got distracted by acquiring one of those looks-be-damned distractions, an ickle baby Looks more like Mario now, but hey.

...which is exactly what you'd expect, really.

[andygates]

Chris Hoy's an apocalypse sprinter, which ain't endurance cycling. But this is a threadjack. My women cycling friends have the same mighty gams as their male cohorts; no reason trans riders won't be likewise...

[Hrunter]

So glad that this is being recieved well.

Suppose I was pretty vague. Hmm.

Well, gaining/losing weight is definitely among goals, regardless of stage in transition (or lack of).

I'm gonna dig and list a bunch. If ye know things on particular subjects, point it out!

Just thinking of things that change when on hormones, in relation to health & fitness.

Changes during Hormone Replacement Therapies

Danger: Incoming text wall. Questions Bolded.

Change in fat distribution

I've heard mixed things - fat is lost evenly, fat isn't lost evenly, some people lose it quicker in some areas than others, etc.

Is how fat is lost dependent, in whole or in part, on hormones?

Is fat gained in the same way?

---

Blood changes (Testos, Estro)

Changes in HDL and LDL are noted.

I understand that Paleo will help keep these in check.

Are there any particular nutrients/macro-nutrients to pay attention to for some one who is experiencing higher LDL levels?

Clotting (Estro)

Estrogen treatment is pro-thrombotic, increasing risks for clotting disorders/diseases.

What positive diet changes can be made for this?

Increased Red blood cells (Testosterone)

This is generally good, but can lead to necessity for blood draws.

Severe cases can lead to clotting disorders as above.

Diet changes?

---

Water retention (Estrogen)

Paleo also helps with this, yes?

---

Increased risk of Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) (FtM - Testosterone)

I'm gonna start looking at what foods can benefit this.

Hopefully if they're not exactly Paleo, perhaps people can help me find Paleo equivalents?

---

Bone Density (FtM - Estrogen blockers)

Estrogen is necessary to slow bone loss and maintain high bone density.

What sorts of foods can be good for helping bones? Calcium is the obvious one, but what else?

Rotation of hips (MtF - Estrogen)

Changes in tendons and ligaments rotate the hips forwards.

Are there exercises/stretches that can help, especially for pain relief?

---

Liver (Testosterone)

Possibility of liver damage.

Good foods for liver care?

Fish oil was good, if i recall correctly.

Gallbladder (Estrogen)

Gallstones and other gallbladder diseases are possible.

-.- I've had this one myself.

Acute attacks can be triggered or made worse by fatty foods.

Would altering the macronutrient ratios help here?

My experience involved eating as healthy as possible for the liver, eat foods that help break down fats.

>.> Sounds screwy, but I recommend a shot of Vinegar to anyone who is having a gall attack but is keeping down food and fluids. Worked wonders in my case.

Insulin (Testos, Estro)

I'm having trouble telling which does what.

It -looks- like Estrogen decreases insulin sensitivity.

Another source cites this for testosterone as well.

Abnormally high levels of Testosterone can build insulin resistance.

I'm gonna have to read up on those again, but aren't they the same thing?

Again, Paleo will have a benefit here as well, increasing sensitivity overall.

Appetite (Testosterone)

Increases here.

Recommendations for assisting portion control?

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Depression (Estrogen)

I know exercise benefits depression, s'why I'm including it here.

Motivation, energy level management, amount of exercise suggestions?

Energy levels & Metabolism

Estrogen lowers metabolism and can leave people feeling drained and needing more sleep.

Testosterone does the opposite - can lead to sleep devprivation.

With Sleep deprivation, managing stimulant intake would be a big step. But what else?

What about for energizing?

Seizures & Obstructive Sleep Apnea

These can be incited or aggravated by testosterone.

Furthermore in combination.

Obstructive Sleep Apnea is typically fixed with a CPAP, to my knowledge.

Poor quality sleep on top of sleep deprivation, can also contribute to severity or occurance of seizures, in some disorders.

This one's a little more abstract, as I'll have to look into the means of reducing/controlling seizures.

I know there's often medication involved... which may in turn deal with dietary changes.

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I know its a lot, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on any of the above.

A bunch of them are medical conditions.

I've learned though, even medical conditions are a good part about what you put in.

[catspaw]

I know its a lot, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on any of the above.

A bunch of them are medical conditions.

I've learned though, even medical conditions are a good part about what you put in.

One suggestion I have is to ask these questions to Dan Savage:

"Call the Savage Love Podcast at 206-201-2720

or email Dan at mail@savagelove.net."

He often has experts on his show when technical questions get asked, and these sound like the types of questions that would be worthwhile to get experts' advice on.

[Hrunter]

^^; sorry

I guess it does get pretty technical...

Do you think they might have gone over it before? I'm sure there's a list of the podcasts somewhere.

[Sarcasticgrrl]

I would actually not suggest Dan Savage. He's very GL friendly, but for the BT part of the equation, he can be rather offensive, diminutive and non-acknowleding of the existence thereof of trans or bi folks.

[Hrunter]

Having heard/read some of the accusations (lol bidolphin) I was a touch hesitant. Also, Welcome, Sarcasticgrrl!

[ryanmercer]

Absolutely! This is one of the considerations I'm looking to investigate.

While I have yet to find out which Trans*-identities might opt for hormonal treatment, the more obvious ones (to me) would be...

Female bodied persons taking testosterone and possibly estrogen blockers

Male bodied persons taking estrogen, progestogens, antiandrogens

Adult intersex persons taking testosterone

Adult intersex persons taking estrogen

Again, definitely not exhaustive by any means. If anyone knows I've missed something, please let me know so I can add to the list!

There is also hormone supplementation, which I'd like to eventually cover.

Discussion for this is already on the boards and if not, isn't as likely to be met with unease.

I'll still put it on my to do list, however!

FTM use test MTF use estrogen, pill shot or pellets in either case. (pellets being the closest thing to natural, as they are time release and mimic natural pulses)

Then of course you have things like birls that most likely don't use any hormones.

Regardless diet and workout will be base on goals not gender identity. Want muscle you need protein. Want to lose weight need to dial in diet.

[Hrunter]

I guess it comes across that way. I'll work to change that.

Trying to outline changes wasn't intended to come across as based on identity.

In post #9 I tried to group it based off 'when someone takes this' for the most part.

The ones marked 'FtM on testosterone' is there just to highlight potentially discomforting changes that are relative to a person crossing

from one binary reproductive anatomy to another.

For example, to my understanding, regardless of other characteristics, one has to have ovaries to have Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome.

I know I have a lot to learn.

Is there a better way to list them?

As for methods, I've also read about transdermal Testosterone patches. Thoughts or experiences anyone?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by earls, can you elaborate?

Also. Love for the Unicorn Meat. thinkgeek?

[ryanmercer]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by earls, can you elaborate?

Also. Love for the Unicorn Meat. thinkgeek?

Typo (autocorrect on my iPhone) I meant birls. Birl: A boy(ish)-girl or girl(ish)-boy: someone inbetween the traditional binary gender system, or someone who defies/rejects it altogether. ( birls.tumblr.com for examples, note some photos are NSFW on that feed but as of this post 8:25pm EST 1/18/2012 the first page of tumblr posts are safe for work.)

Also yeah the unicorn meat is from thinkgeek, couldn't resist myself!

[Hrunter]

Yes!

I tried to make sure I worded the first post mentioning that people may go through different steps.

I should probably include that they may or -may not-, perhaps?

I was going to add Androgynous as a category on the list, I should fix that.

I know they list a few on the site, do you have any others that would be good to add?

Non-transition, mental & social transition are definitely things to consider.

Fitness goals can be varied. Health concerns... any specifics you can think of?

I'll read through the tumblr to get some ideas.

[ryanmercer]

Yes!

I tried to make sure I worded the first post mentioning that people may go through different steps.

I should probably include that they may or -may not-, perhaps?

I was going to add Androgynous as a category on the list, I should fix that.

I know they list a few on the site, do you have any others that would be good to add?

Non-transition, mental & social transition are definitely things to consider.

Fitness goals can be varied. Health concerns... any specifics you can think of?

I'll read through the tumblr to get some ideas.

The tumblr is just photos. http://tgguide.com/ would be a good resource for you.

[Hrunter]

Well hey.

I've found a statement that ketogenic diets are good for managing (reducing instance of) epilepsy(-tic seizures)!

Paleo is, if I remember right, ketogenic, yes?