Losing fat / gaining muscle

[cosmia]

Thanks for the great, super-informative answers, everyone. It makes a lot more sense now! In my case, I don't have any weight I want to lose; I just want to cut back the body fat % a bit. And my current goal is increasing strength, not so much gaining muscle mass. So if those two things can happen at once... then it sounds like I should just keep doing exactly what I'm doing, which is working on getting stronger and working on going paleo.

[Loren Wade]

Feeding period? What the hell? This sounds like some kind of cult

LOL. Do some reading on it. It works.

Thanks for the great, super-informative answers, everyone. It makes a lot more sense now! In my case, I don't have any weight I want to lose; I just want to cut back the body fat % a bit. And my current goal is increasing strength, not so much gaining muscle mass. So if those two things can happen at once... then it sounds like I should just keep doing exactly what I'm doing, which is working on getting stronger and working on going paleo.

Sounds awesome!!!

[oystergirl]

Cosmia, it is a coincidence, but I was reading spezzy's transformation story and she did just that! Read it and see if it gives you any help!

http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/...ng-super-hero/

It's really inspiring for anyone but especially us chicks. With IF and eating heavier after weight interval workouts I have been able to drop fat, gain strength and some muscle so far, but I have a way to go to be "cut" so I think it is a relatively easy thing to do to a certain extent earlier in a re-fitnessing or beginning program but as you progress it becomes much more difficult because you have less fat to work with so you really need to up your calories...spezzy did just that and (gasp!) gained 40 pounds of muscle and looks like she lost a ton of weight and really leaned out...just beautiful! (and no, i aint kissing her butt! Just really impressed!

[Cinnamonbite]

You can definitely gain strength, which is building muscle, and lose fat at the same time. I'm doing it now. I've done it for 6 months. It works.

So what's that look like? Do you look like you have that stringy wiry strength? Or does the muscle not show at all? See, I should probably lose another 30 pounds but I've played this game before and I don't look any better at the end, I end up skinny-fat. And to me, there's no point in continuing to lose any more weight if I'm just going to look just like this but smaller, so I'm lifting. But if you're telling me that I'm not going to look any different after months of lifting, I might as well go back to pure weight loss and worry about muscle later.

[DrJWilson]

Your muscles get more efficient, so they'll grow a bit but roughly be the same size. Think about it though, would you rather be ACTUALLY skinny-fat (characterized by low body-fat percentage but almost no muscle) and be too weak to do a push up, or a bit bigger with the ability to squat and deadlift awesomely?

[oystergirl]

For me, I would rather be STRONG. There is something much more sensational about pumping out 10 military presses on your toes as opposed to flexing your biceps...at least to me!

[Pat G]

I think... i can't make my belly go away... i don't care enough about my nutrition for my body fat to dissolve its way down to single digits. My summary from whats been said here:

You will gain strength and therefore mass in your muscles whilst strength training... thats basically a given, and weight loss should ensue with the proper nutrition and extra energy burning coming from increasing muscle mass?

Strength training=increased muscle mass=increased energy usage=lower fat levels IF nutritition=OK

please tell me if i'm wrong.

[Marlowe]

It's a fallacy that you can only do one or the other, lose weight or gain muscle mass. After getting generally out of shape over the course of a couple of years, I started working out regularly in May 2011. In the 9 months since then I have lost 20 lbs and at the same time I've gained 2 inches in my chest size, and 1 inch each in my neck and biceps, while losing 3 inches on my waist. There's no question at all that I've gained muscle mass while losing weight. And I don't think I'm any sort of freak outlier by any means. I don't dispute that it's harder/rarer/etc, to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time, but any study claiming it's not possible is bogus.

[alligatorsbite]

I guess my question is, which do you focus on first? Or if that's not the right way to think about it, what is the right way to think about it?

I am by no means an expert on this, but I'm happy to throw in my two cents in terms of how to think about it. Initially, I kept thinking about things in the same manner that you are here. Long story short, I drove myself crazy over analyzing it. Instead, I just decided to do what I knew would be best for my health. I started doing intense workouts and lifting heavy weights (crossfit was my personal choice of a workout, but there are many ways to do this!)

I started crossfit in August 2011, and in November 2011 switched to the paleo diet. I stopped worrying about calories. I ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was full, and made sure I got quality foods. I ignored the scale, and pulled out a tape measurer and a camera.

These photos are from August, Sept, November, and December.

I'm 150lbs in the first three photos and 142 in the last.

I could hardly push the empty (female) barbell overhead when I started (35lbs). Today I can jerk 95lbs, deadlift 190lbs, squat 155lbs... you get the idea I have no clue to what degree I "lost fat" or "built muscle." I have no clue if I was in a calorie deficit or surplus. But I'm obviously stronger and carrying less fat on my body!

Oh - and prior to crossfit I had spent my year training and running half and full marathons! AMAZING what adding strength training can do!

[aj_rock]

Well, yeah makes sense. Marathon runners don't have muskuls.

[Loren Wade]

I am by no means an expert on this, but I'm happy to throw in my two cents in terms of how to think about it. Initially, I kept thinking about things in the same manner that you are here. Long story short, I drove myself crazy over analyzing it. Instead, I just decided to do what I knew would be best for my health. I started doing intense workouts and lifting heavy weights (crossfit was my personal choice of a workout, but there are many ways to do this!)

I started crossfit in August 2011, and in November 2011 switched to the paleo diet. I stopped worrying about calories. I ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was full, and made sure I got quality foods. I ignored the scale, and pulled out a tape measurer and a camera.

These photos are from August, Sept, November, and December.

I'm 150lbs in the first three photos and 142 in the last.

I could hardly push the empty (female) barbell overhead when I started (35lbs). Today I can jerk 95lbs, deadlift 190lbs, squat 155lbs... you get the idea I have no clue to what degree I "lost fat" or "built muscle." I have no clue if I was in a calorie deficit or surplus. But I'm obviously stronger and carrying less fat on my body!

Oh - and prior to crossfit I had spent my year training and running half and full marathons! AMAZING what adding strength training can do!

WOW! Fantastic progress! I love seeing stuff like this.

[67alecto]

It's a fallacy that you can only do one or the other, lose weight or gain muscle mass.

It isn't that it is a fallacy, it is that it is a misconception. If you are burning more calories than you consume, you will lose both fat and muscle. If you are eating more calories than you burn, you will gain fat and muscle. The ratios of each in each case will vary depending on your activity.

If you consistently run a calorie deficit, you will not be able to add muscle mass. The tried and true methods of body builders work - bulking and cutting.

However, for non-professionals, this isn't ideal and will often have unintended consequences since you'd be looser on the regimen than a pro.

If you increase the timeline for your work from weeks to months (or years) and eat a reasonable amount while lifting heavy (not consciously maintaining a deficit, nor eating to bulk), you will see a more gradual transformation of muscle gain and fat loss.

I'll state it again - there are two main reasons why people think they are gaining muscle mass while eating a calorie deficit and lifting weights

1)they get stronger

2)they lost fat and their muscles are becoming more defined.

Most strength is derived from muscular training and there is a lot to be gained for an average person before they hit the functional limits of their muscle mass. If you are carrying extra weight, you will naturally have larger muscles (example - when was the last time you saw an overweight person with skinny calves). If you're losing weight while lifting weights, you'll retain more lean muscle mass and they will come into definition, especially in the areas that are close to the surface like the biceps and quads.

[aj_rock]

Most strength is derived from muscular training and there is a lot to be gained for an average person before they hit the functional limits of their muscle mass. If you are carrying extra weight, you will naturally have larger muscles (example - when was the last time you saw an overweight person with skinny calves). If you're losing weight while lifting weights, you'll retain more lean muscle mass and they will come into definition, especially in the areas that are close to the surface like the biceps and quads.

Funny thing the overweight/skinny calves thing. Because of the way your calves take on load, they tend to not decrease in size in proportion to the decrease in weight for someone previously obese. Therefore, you can usually tell if someone used to be heavier by looking at their calves

Just a random story.

Another point to add though is that heavy strength training tends to improve muscle fiber recruitment and CNS signal strength preferentially over hypertrophy. AKA, you learn to more efficiently use muscle you already have.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Look...all I know is I pick up heavy stuff. A lot. I have lost fat and gained muscle mass and definiition. My shirts don't fit me and my pants are tight around my thighs and bum... however my diet is pretty uncontrolled 85-90% paleo and not eating as much as I probably should. It seems to be working for me and I'm trimming and gaining size simultaneously. I can't explain itbut its working.