Frustrations with Sleeping Habits

[Chrissy]

I've always been somewhat of a nightowl and that's never really been a problem until I decided to take control of my life - fitness, diet, as well as sleep. But I guess the habit is harder to break than I thought. I've made the goal that I want to be out of bed by 10 am at the latest on days I don't have anything to do. Since I just started my semester break, this is especially important because if I don't have any structure as to sleeping times, I turn nocturnal/freakishly polyphasic (has actually happened to me a few times).

Getting out of bed is rough, but I can tough it out with enough will power. Unfortunately the will power isn't quite there yet, and I've been a snooze monster lately. The biggest problem is getting to sleep. I can be tired all day, but as soon as I tell myself it's time for bed, I suddenly get a huge energy boost. I can't stop thinking, my body gets restless, and I just can't fall asleep. I've been listening to movies to help myself fall asleep sometimes, but not even that is working anymore and the last few nights I've been relying on benadryl to knock me out. I don't like taking pills, and I'd like to be able to fall asleep naturally so that I can actually wake up when the sun is shining.

Anyone have any advice? I'm mostly paleo, and I heard that that would help out with it, but I'm not seeing anything and it's starting to really frustrate me.

[catspaw]

If you're sluggish in the morning and wired at night, you might be suffering from adrenal fatigue:

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/what-is-adrenal-fatigue#how-can-i-tell

I am not a doctor.

[oystergirl]

Chrissy, I am an habitual night owl. My perfect schedule, I kid you not is go to bed around 4am and wake up around 1pm. I do my best not to do that but invariably, it happens. I have kids who need to be on the bus so I have to get up at 6am to wake them and back to sleep around 7am. I can try hard to go to bed earlier but like you I will simply lay in bed for hours at a time. On the odd days where I have to get up earlier I simply take a homeopathic sleep aid like calms forte or an over the counter Unisom.

I would love to get my sleep under control. THE ONLY WAY to do it is to find a schedule, and stick to it. I have done it before when I was working and had to be up and out the door by 8am. I did my best to not sleep in on the weekends and make sure I was in bed by 11pm at the latest. Consistency is what works. It is not easy, but it does work. Even if you CANNOT sleep for a few nights, getting up at the same time is key.

When you are up, know I am too! hugs owl sister!

[ebm1224]

i have had very similar issues in the past and, given the opportunity, i revert to this as well. some advice i've gotten in the past...some has worked, some has not:

1) turn off electronics 1 hour before bedtime. and don't keep electronics in your room...or at least don't watch while in bed.

2) make appointments for as many mornings as you can. that way you always have someone counting on you to be somewhere at a certain time and snoozing isn't as much of an option.

3) keep a notebook by your bed. when your mind is racing, write down all the things you are thinking.

good luck and let me know what you figure out. i could use some help with this as well

[Chrissy]

I took the adrenal fatigue quiz and it said I have it "moderate", but it also said it's brought on by stress, which could be the finals I just finished. So maybe things can start getting better now?

I'm glad I'm not the only fitness night owl out there! I agree with the scheduling bit, and that's why I want to start at a self imposed 10 am, because left to my own devices I don't wake up until 3 pm and by then the day is almost gone!

Thanks for the tips ebm. Especially about the electronics. I'm usually on my computer in bed, until I go to bed. That should be the first to go. My brother is into psychology and he told me that I should use my bed ONLY to sleep in, and never to work on it, but it's just so much more comfy than my desk (and less cluttered). It's already 1:30 am where I'm at, so I'm going to try and read a bit and then see if I can't finally find some rest.

[aj_rock]

Im sure every student on NF knows EXACTLY what you mean. I always fixed it by just forcing myself up at the right time, and if that meant being up all night, well, I'll be tired enough that following night to sleep

[Kirst]

I always fixed it by just forcing myself up at the right time

+1 on this. I'm a student too, and I had the most trouble with sleep issues when my wake-up times varied by more than an hour on different days. It totally screws you over if you sleep in until noon on the weekends and have to get up at 8AM M to F. I also had to make a conscious effort to eliminate screen time before going to sleep. I try to get into the habit of turning the lights down and reading a book for 15 minutes to calm my brain down. Getting into that kind of relaxing routine helped.

[aj_rock]

+1 on this. I'm a student too, and I had the most trouble with sleep issues when my wake-up times varied by more than an hour on different days. It totally screws you over if you sleep in until noon on the weekends and have to get up at 8AM M to F. I also had to make a conscious effort to eliminate screen time before going to sleep. I try to get into the habit of turning the lights down and reading a book for 15 minutes to calm my brain down. Getting into that kind of relaxing routine helped.

I do that now, even while working.. I'm up at 6 to work, but then I go out on the weekends and routinely sleep in until noon... also kinda sucks cuz i just dont have the energy friday night

[Kirst]

Hahaha yes, I definitely meant that in a "do as I say not as I do"

"It totally screws you over when you sleep in until noon on weekends" means: I do this regularly and it SUCKS on that first early Monday.

[Waldo]

I used to big time have this problem. I'm not entirely sure what fixed it, either a lot of exercise or having the first shift when baby wakes up every single day of the week (been 10 and a half months since I last slept past 8 am). Probably a combination of both. I still go to bed too late on occasion (like right now), but nothing like before. If I had no reason to be up, I'd naturally drift later and later and later, often past sunrise after a week or more.

[161803398874989]

I'll write an article on this soon. For now, here's what you should do.

For two weeks, get a schedule and STICK TO IT. You probably know the amount of sleep you need pretty well. 8 hours is common, but I know people who get by on 7 and I myself need 9. Pick a time to get to sleep and a time to get up. I usually go to sleep at around 22:30 and wake up at around 7:30, which gives me 9 hours. Once you pick these times, there will be no negotiating. You go to bed at 22:30, lights out. You get up at 7:30, every morning. No exceptions. Not even in the weekends.

If you can't sleep after around 15 minutes (DON'T WATCH THE CLOCK), get out of bed and go do something else for 5-6 minutes. Then get back in bed and repeat. No matter how many times you do this, you're getting up at 7:30. You'll be tired, yeah, but it'll help you sleep.

No screens an hour before bedtime.

No exercises three hours before bedtime.

That is all for now, I've gotta go.

[Chrissy]

Hey, thanks everyone for the replies. I finally got to sleep last night with the help of benadryl (I really hate relying on pills). This morning I forced myself up with my alarm and was surprised that I wasn't that tired. I woke up at 10, so I still got about 8 hours of sleep. I think part of the problem might actually be oversleeping. If I get 10 to 12 hours of sleep, I feel like I hadn't really slept at all.

I'll definitely start taking all of your advice! Especially about keeping electronics away from my bed. I've already changed my laptops position to it's desk, and not the chair by my bed.

[Ryan Sannar]

The room you sleep in needs to have no light. As close to pitch black as possible.

[Crusader]

Besides the normal suggestions of exercising regularly, not taking caffeine are least 4 hours before bed, no electronics 1 hour before bed, and sticking to a regular sleep schedule, I suggest doing math.

http://lifehacker.com/5885673/do-some-math-if-you-have-trouble-falling-asleep

Do 5-10 minutes and try to go back to sleep. Being a nerd, I'm sure there are some equations out there for you to work on!

Hope this helps!

[oystergirl]

Well, I think you guys cursed me or something! Went to bed last night at 2:00am and did not fall asleep until AFTER I got my daughter up for the bus. I have this one tiny spot in my back that has siatica in it and it hurts like an ice pick plunged into my butt. Just one freaking spot. I am working on it, but other than standing UP I have it....ugh!

[cavejen]

An interesting hack that works for me to reset my sleep schedule is fasting for 12-16 hours before the desired new wakeup time. I stumbled upon this as a jet-lag tip but as I was experiencing exactly the same things as the first post in this thread -- perpetual snoozing, mind racing at night, crazy sleep times if I go without an alarm -- I tried it out for normal sleep too, and there's even articles on it for this purpose now.

It's pretty simple, figure out when you want to be getting up, subtract 12-16 hours (figure out what works for you: 14 is the sweet spot for me), and don't eat after that time. e.g. if you're currently waking up around 12 and want to wake up at 9, don't eat after 5pm.

I needed to do this for a few days until it took hold, but it genuinely worked. Hurrah!

These days I get up pretty early regularly but I also make sure I'm in bed before 11. If I'm not sleepy, I take melatonin, which I also use for jetlag. Plus, I recently looked after a puppy which forced me up at 6am for two weeks, an interesting alternative if it's available

[Jcannon98188]

This used to be me. I would stay up till 2-3am and sleep till 11 (1 when my Mom was working) and I kind of hated it. I felt lazy. Then I got a new job that started at 6am. So I decided to take advantage of the opportunity to wake up early, and started getting up at 4am! AND I LOVE IT! I read the NF post about the guy who would yell "RAH" whenever he needed to push through. So every morning at 4am, when my alarm goes off; before I can even think about how tired I am, I yell (quietly so as to not wake my parents up) "RAH!" and throw myself out of bed. After that, you are already awake and it's just a matter of getting on with your day. My new motto now is never let the Sun catch you sleeping (stole it from the art of manliness). I used to wake up around noon. Now I get to watch the sunrise from my office window. It is way better. Eventually you start sleeping way earlier (I am in bed now by 8pm on the weekdays)

[StrengthIsBeauty]

How would you feel about Herbal help?

I've never really slept well, but some things that have helped me are:

sleepy time tea before bed

Valerian & Melatonin before bed (natural stuff, not like benadryl... eventually benadryl won't be working and you'll need to keep increasing the dose)

Not leaving projects or reminders of projects in the bedroom

Good Workout During the Day

Laying in bed and concentrating on relaxing every muscle in my body... tell yourself to "Think Puddle"

[Maria]

I second StrengthIsBeauty's advice on relaxation. I don't have any good relaxation audios in English, but they must be out there. The best ones have a few lessons, where the first are tensing your muscles and then relaxing, the second lesson is only relaxing one muscle at a time and the third is learning to relax just by breathing and thinking "relax" while exhaling. I'm sleeping in minutes when I do this now, and the focusing on breathing helps the other thoughts to stay away, and therefore relaxing the mind too.

The other really good advices are not doing anything else in bed, not eating close to bedtime, get up and do something else for a little while if you don't fall asleep and doing a schedule. The schedule is most important on the wake up time, you might require different amount of sleep different days or times of year, and it is easier to go to sleep if you go to bed when you start to feel sleepy instead of a specific time. That is why turning of electronics in good time helps, it makes it easier to recognize when you are ready to sleep. If you keep awake through a time-to-go-to-sleep-phase, it might take another 90 min to the next one...

[oystergirl]

I would caution anyone about using melatonin on a regular basis. I tried it ONCE and fell into a mental black hole so deep it was worse for me than taking percodans. If you are a sensitive, it really screws with you. That said, your brain is a very delicate balance and supposedly if you take excess melatonin it stops producing it for itself. Just really use it as a last resort and if you get vivid dreams or feelings of being awake in a black place while being asleep or unable to move, then dont use it again. Don't mean to freak anyone out but it can be very freaky.

Valerian is good, mother wort, Kava Kava, homeopathic coffee crudea all good. oh, chamomile, catnip too.

[CalvinHobbes]

Oystergirl--that's strange, I've actually had really good results with melatonin. Generally if I take it about an hour before bed, then fall asleep I stay asleep throughout the night and wake up refreshed, but maybe that's just me. Valerian usually doesn't do anything for me though. I guess it's all in whoever the person is

[Deansy]

1) turn off electronics 1 hour before bedtime. and don't keep electronics in your room...or at least don't watch while in bed.

The room you sleep in needs to have no light. As close to pitch black as possible.

BINGO. I've started with this for two weeks now. My phone charges under my bed, I cover the clock and make sure all the twinkling LEDs are turned off. The other night, it was so dark, I honestly could not tell if my eyes were open or closed, there was no light for me to see. Out like a light(yeah, terrible pun) and the deepest sleep ever. Woke up feeling so much better.

[161803398874989]

I would caution anyone about using melatonin on a regular basis. I tried it ONCE and fell into a mental black hole so deep it was worse for me than taking percodans. If you are a sensitive, it really screws with you. That said, your brain is a very delicate balance and supposedly if you take excess melatonin it stops producing it for itself. Just really use it as a last resort and if you get vivid dreams or feelings of being awake in a black place while being asleep or unable to move, then dont use it again. Don't mean to freak anyone out but it can be very freaky.

Valerian is good, mother wort, Kava Kava, homeopathic coffee crudea all good. oh, chamomile, catnip too.

Melatonin is a widely used supplement in enhancing sleep. Besides, if you sleep your brain is producing a lot of it already.

Maybe the melatonin wasn't good quality, or the dose was too high? These things can happen.

Also, dreams like that are not extremely out of the norm. Contentless dreams are like 1% of dream reports in laboratories (the best measure of actual dreams since recalling dreams in the morning only gets the last few dreams) if I remember correctly.

[Chrissy]

The room you sleep in needs to have no light. As close to pitch black as possible.

Unfortunately, I have no control over the light in my room. There is a huge window that goes into the kitchen, and when my host family has a light on (which they leave on a small light every night) it goes right into my room. I'm moving out in a few weeks, so I can try that then. Or just get an eye mask, I suppose.

The weekend hasn't been a good way to start with trying to keep a schedule. Though oddly enough when I slept a bit drunk, I woke up around 9, but last night I went to bed sober and couldn't get up until noon. Hmm.

I love the idea of no electronics an hour before bed. Instead, I'm reading until I get sleepy enough. Last night it was Harry Potter fairy tales. Tonight? Who knows.

[Maria]

Unfortunately, I have no control over the light in my room. There is a huge window that goes into the kitchen, and when my host family has a light on (which they leave on a small light every night) it goes right into my room. I'm moving out in a few weeks, so I can try that then. Or just get an eye mask, I suppose.

The weekend hasn't been a good way to start with trying to keep a schedule. Though oddly enough when I slept a bit drunk, I woke up around 9, but last night I went to bed sober and couldn't get up until noon. Hmm.

I love the idea of no electronics an hour before bed. Instead, I'm reading until I get sleepy enough. Last night it was Harry Potter fairy tales. Tonight? Who knows.

An eye mask is great, I love mine when I can't get the room dark enough. It's all silk and very soft. If you are reading until sleepy, don't do it in bed or at least sit up in the bed while doing it, this helping your body to learn that lying down in the bed = sleep.